346 réponses à ce sujet

[Elegana]

If I remember correctly, comments on voting were that fans voted for the blonde Shepard because of her facial features, but not her hair colour. Thus why Bioware hosted another poll to decide what colour hair she should have - red won.

[Niemack Saarinen]

AJRimmsey wrote...

Niemack Saarinen wrote...

My name is Ingio Montoya, it means; you killed my father, now prepare to die.

+10

:D:D

Thank you sir!.

[Strephon Gentry]

So, you are wanting to change everyone to blonde hair and blue eyes?

Someone already tried that and it didn't turn out well for him.

Might have heard of him?

Hear he was very popular in your part of the world in the mid '30's to mid '40's...

[Soundsystem]

blacqout wrote...

No, SoundSystem. i'm afraid you are quite wrong.

It is an undeniable fact that significantly fewer people took part in the second poll. We need to ask ourselves why, and also ask ourselves which kinds of people would have been more inclined to follow the story (past its original conclusion).

The simple truth is that the blonde Shepard was infinitely more popular. A few short weeks of misogyny-fueled complaining later, BioWare caved and held a second poll, which nowhere near as many people were aware of. Those that were aware of it are more likely to have been the aforementioned bigots, than the purveyors of good taste, such as myself, that got their way originally.

The second poll was skewed, and i'm embarrassed for you that you can't see that.

I'm embarassed for you that you have no idea how statistics and representational polling work. 

It's also pretty embarassing that you seem to not understand what social justice is, and think that blonde's face institutionalized discrimination. 

If blonde Shepard really was "infinitely more popular" as you claim, then people would be complaining about the hair color change. Just as they did when the blonde hair option was chosen. And yet, there is only you whining and using social justice terms incorrectly. 

[THEE_DEATHMASTER]

Strephon Gentry wrote...

So, you are wanting to change everyone to blonde hair and blue eyes?

Someone already tried that and it didn't turn out well for him.

Might have heard of him?

Hear he was very popular in your part of the world in the mid '30's to mid '40's...

You didn't have to say anything after the first sentence. Yet there will probably still be someone who doesn't get it.

Modifié par THEE_DEATHMASTER, 23 février 2012 - 01:57 .

[blacqout]

Soundsystem wrote...

blacqout wrote...

No, SoundSystem. i'm afraid you are quite wrong.

It is an undeniable fact that significantly fewer people took part in the second poll. We need to ask ourselves why, and also ask ourselves which kinds of people would have been more inclined to follow the story (past its original conclusion).

The simple truth is that the blonde Shepard was infinitely more popular. A few short weeks of misogyny-fueled complaining later, BioWare caved and held a second poll, which nowhere near as many people were aware of. Those that were aware of it are more likely to have been the aforementioned bigots, than the purveyors of good taste, such as myself, that got their way originally.

The second poll was skewed, and i'm embarrassed for you that you can't see that.

I'm embarassed for you that you have no idea how statistics and representational polling work. 

It's also pretty embarassing that you seem to not understand what social justice is, and think that blonde's face institutionalized discrimination. 

If blonde Shepard really was "infinitely more popular" as you claim, then people would be complaining about the hair color change. Just as they did when the blonde hair option was chosen. And yet, there is only you whining and using social justice terms incorrectly. 

The entire point is that the second poll wasn't representational, a point which you have repeatedly failed to dispute.

I'll say it once more, even simpler so that you might be able to understand it.


Around 80,000 people took part in the first poll, with over 40% choosing the blonde Shepard. Only 40,000 votes were cast in the second round. That is significantly less, and we need to ask ourselves why that is.

The obvious answer is that many of us that were ecstatic with the blonde Shepard’s victory, simply stopped following the story after its conclusion. Those most likely to have continued to follow it, and therefore have known about the second poll, are the ones that were not happy with the result of the first poll.

It is for this reason that the second poll is skewed, and not a fair reflection of the wishes of the total Mass Effect fanbase. Or do you really not understand the terms you're using?

It's like wanting to find out the favourite dish in London by asking 1,000 people, with 700 of them being vegans.  Completely skewed.

Modifié par blacqout, 23 février 2012 - 02:27 .

[blacqout]

Strephon Gentry wrote...

So, you are wanting to change everyone to blonde hair and blue eyes?

Someone already tried that and it didn't turn out well for him.

Might have heard of him?

Hear he was very popular in your part of the world in the mid '30's to mid '40's...

No, and you disgrace yourself by making such a comparison so lightly.

I want female Shepard to be a blonde, because that's what the voting public wanted her to be before BioWare pandered to misogynstic coments such as "she looks more like a barbie".

That sort of bigotry and prejudice should not affect the creative process, and it sickens me that it did.

[RoboticWater]

And to think, this thread started as a simple question about metal.

[Strephon Gentry]

No. The voting public wanted a redhead.

You are just upset your vote didn't win.

And I'm not disgracing myself in any shape, form or fashion.

You're the one that can't take it that your choice lost.

I just call a spade a spade if you want to be like a dictator and share his viewpoints on what everyone should look like, be my guest oh 'master race' one...

[AlphaJarmel]

BlahDog wrote...

And to think, this thread started as a simple question about metal.

It was never about the metal.

[Descy_]

Strephon Gentry wrote...

No. The voting public wanted a redhead.

You are just upset your vote didn't win.

And I'm not disgracing myself in any shape, form or fashion.

You're the one that can't take it that your choice lost.

I just call a spade a spade if you want to be like a dictator and share his viewpoints on what everyone should look like, be my guest oh 'master race' one...

1st poll, Blonde won.

2nd poll, less people partake and redhead won.

Obviously it should be redhead.

Yeah, makes sense.

[blacqout]

Strephon Gentry wrote...

No. The voting public wanted a redhead.

You are just upset your vote didn't win.

And I'm not disgracing myself in any shape, form or fashion.

You're the one that can't take it that your choice lost.

I just call a spade a spade if you want to be like a dictator and share his viewpoints on what everyone should look like, be my guest oh 'master race' one...

The voting public overhelmingly voted blonde. In the secondary poll, which was set up to appease misogynists and bigots, a redhead was chosen. However, about half as many people voted and the poll wasn't as publicised.

I'm not upset that my choice lost. I'm upset that my choice won, but was usurped on the back of comments that have no place in civilised society.

I'm sure that the however many Jews that died in the Holocaust would appreciate you digging up their bodies to use in an internet argument. Very classy - but that's what i expect from anti-blonde bigots.

Modifié par blacqout, 23 février 2012 - 02:48 .

[blacqout]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

BlahDog wrote...

And to think, this thread started as a simple question about metal.

It was never about the metal.

It was a bit about the metal.

Modifié par blacqout, 23 février 2012 - 02:45 .

[Soundsystem]

blacqout wrote...

Soundsystem wrote...

blacqout wrote...

No, SoundSystem. i'm afraid you are quite wrong.

It is an undeniable fact that significantly fewer people took part in the second poll. We need to ask ourselves why, and also ask ourselves which kinds of people would have been more inclined to follow the story (past its original conclusion).

The simple truth is that the blonde Shepard was infinitely more popular. A few short weeks of misogyny-fueled complaining later, BioWare caved and held a second poll, which nowhere near as many people were aware of. Those that were aware of it are more likely to have been the aforementioned bigots, than the purveyors of good taste, such as myself, that got their way originally.

The second poll was skewed, and i'm embarrassed for you that you can't see that.

I'm embarassed for you that you have no idea how statistics and representational polling work. 

It's also pretty embarassing that you seem to not understand what social justice is, and think that blonde's face institutionalized discrimination. 

If blonde Shepard really was "infinitely more popular" as you claim, then people would be complaining about the hair color change. Just as they did when the blonde hair option was chosen. And yet, there is only you whining and using social justice terms incorrectly. 

The entire point is that the second poll wasn't representational, a point which you have repeatedly failed to dispute.

I'll say it once more, even simpler so that you might be able to understand it.


Around 80,000 people took part in the first poll, with over 40% choosing the blonde Shepard. Only 40,000 votes were cast in the second round. That is significantly less, and we need to ask ourselves why that is.

The obvious answer is that many of us that were ecstatic with the blonde Shepard’s victory, simply stopped following the story after its conclusion. Those most likely to have continued to follow it, and therefore have known about the second poll, are the ones that were not happy with the result of the first poll.

It is for this reason that the second poll is skewed, and not a fair reflection of the wishes of the total Mass Effect fanbase. Or do you really not understand the terms you're using?

It's like wanting to find out the favourite dish in London by asking 1,000 people, with 700 of them being vegans.  Completely skewed.

The fact remains that you are ASSUMING that peole who voted were voting for the blonde hair, not the facial features or the hair style itself. I know I voted for blonde Shepard because her hairstyle and face were the closest to the default femShep of the previous games. I also voted for the hair to be red, given that default fem!Shep was a red head for the previous games.

You are also assuming that the second poll was uneven. As in, 80-90% of blonde supporters left but only 30% of redhead supporters did. However, it is much much more statistically likely, given that the numbers went from 80,000 to 40,000 that each side simply reduced by approx. half. As that is how polling works. 

It would be like conducting a poll on the streets of London surveying 50 people and getting a result, then surveying in London again interviewing only 25. Logic dictates that they would yield extremely similar results since the bias you claim does not exist.

Again, I maintain that if the second poll truly was skewed in the way that you claim, there would be (as there was following blonde Shepard) a large amount of people on BSN complaining about the poll. However, given that it is just you it seems that you are just grumpy that blonde Shep lost.

I have no problem with you liking blonde Shep more, or wanting to modify your case to reflect that feeling. However, there is a problem with wanting Bioware to cave to a minority over what a majority of people clearly support (redhead Shep). The community proved they support redheaded Shep, first in the poll, and now by having nobody agree with you and nobody else protesting in favor of blonde Shepard.

[Mx_CN3]

Oh this is great, someone that doesn't understand the idea of "statistically significant" is complaining about the Femshep poll!

Hint: even though there were less people, a 4-1 lead in a poll of over ~25,000 people is evidence enough to assume that most people wanted a redhead Femshep. Deal with it, bud.

Edit: also, if it's that big of a deal to you, you can mod it (assuming Mass Effect 3 supports modding, I'm not sure if Origin will screw with it).

Modifié par Mx_CN3, 23 février 2012 - 03:20 .

[blacqout]

Mx_CN3 wrote...

Oh this is great, someone that doesn't understand the idea of "statistically significant" is complaining about the Femshep poll!

Hint: even though there were less people, a 4-1 lead in a poll of over ~25,000 people is evidence enough to assume that most people wanted a redhead Femshep. Deal with it, bud.

Edit: also, if it's that big of a deal to you, you can mod it (assuming Mass Effect 3 supports modding, I'm not sure if Origin will screw with it).

No it isn't. I don't see what's so hard to understand about this.

Twice as many people voted in the first poll than in the second. It might be convenient for you to just ignore the significance of this fact, but it is quite obvious that those most likely to have followed the story past its initial conclusion, and therefore been aware of the second poll, are those that were unhappy with the result.

The second poll was skewed, and is not a fair representation of the wishes of the fanbase, only those that were unhappy with a blonde Shepard.

I don't play as female Shepard. This is about social justice, not my video game avatar.

Modifié par blacqout, 23 février 2012 - 03:34 .

[Mx_CN3]

blacqout wrote...

Mx_CN3 wrote...

Oh this is great, someone that doesn't understand the idea of "statistically significant" is complaining about the Femshep poll!

Hint: even though there were less people, a 4-1 lead in a poll of over ~25,000 people is evidence enough to assume that most people wanted a redhead Femshep. Deal with it, bud.

Edit: also, if it's that big of a deal to you, you can mod it (assuming Mass Effect 3 supports modding, I'm not sure if Origin will screw with it).

No it isn't. I don't see what's so hard to understand about this.

Twice as many people voted in the first poll than in the second. It might be convenient for you to just ignore the significance of this fact, but it is quite obvious that those most likely to have followed the story past its initial conclusion, and therefore been aware of the second poll, are those that were unhappy with the result.

The second poll was skewed, and is not a fair representation of the wishes of the fanbase, only those that were unhappy with a blonde Shepard.

I don't play as female Shepard. This is about social justice, not my video game avatar.

And how do you have proof that it was skewed?  Oh wait, you don't.  All you have proof of is that less people voted, and that the redhead won by an enormous amount in a large enough sample size.  If you want to ignore the science of statistics, you can go right on and do so, but that doesn't make you right.

[blacqout]

I'm not ignoring anything, toolbox, you are. Do you really think that it's scientific to not look at the differing circumstances between the two polls?

I'll give you a hint: It's not.

I'm a social scientist, so i know what i'm talking about. It's not a huge leap of logic to assume that those rabid in their anti-blonde stance were more likely to have voted in both polls, while those happy with the first resolution would have had the whole fiasco sink to the recesses of their mind.

[Strephon Gentry]

If it was about social justice, you wouldn't be posting it on a gaming forum.

But hey, go ahead Ahab. Go hunt your whale.

[Soundsystem]

blacqout wrote...

I'm not ignoring anything, toolbox, you are. Do you really think that it's scientific to not look at the differing circumstances between the two polls?

I'll give you a hint: It's not.

I'm a social scientist, so i know what i'm talking about. It's not a huge leap of logic to assume that those rabid in their anti-blonde stance were more likely to have voted in both polls, while those happy with the first resolution would have had the whole fiasco sink to the recesses of their mind.

You're not a "social scientist". Because that is not actually any kind of job title. It refers to people who work in the social sciences. The only thing close to a "social scientist" in general would be someone with a degree in sociology. But if you had that you would know the proper terms, call yourself a sociologist and actually understand how statistics work. (I say this as a social worker with a minor in women's studies, who has taken university level stats and sociology courses).

But that's all moot because on your Tumblr you announce that " My name is Valentin Seleznyov and i'm a 25 year old kitchen and bathroom designer".

[blacqout]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

AlphaJarmel wrote...

BlahDog wrote...

And to think, this thread started as a simple question about metal.

It was never about the metal.

I just opened this to see the comments about femshep's hair color. I too thought it was about metal initially, then I went back and read the first post.



OP, in the first poll people voted for hair style. You know, the ONE hairstyle that was long.

In the second, they voted on the color.

Deal.

That is simply not the case, and as a theory doesn't fit the observed evidence and voting statistics.

[blacqout]

Soundsystem wrote...

blacqout wrote...

I'm not ignoring anything, toolbox, you are. Do you really think that it's scientific to not look at the differing circumstances between the two polls?

I'll give you a hint: It's not.

I'm a social scientist, so i know what i'm talking about. It's not a huge leap of logic to assume that those rabid in their anti-blonde stance were more likely to have voted in both polls, while those happy with the first resolution would have had the whole fiasco sink to the recesses of their mind.

You're not a "social scientist". Because that is not actually any kind of job title. It refers to people who work in the social sciences. The only thing close to a "social scientist" in general would be someone with a degree in sociology. But if you had that you would know the proper terms, call yourself a sociologist and actually understand how statistics work. (I say this as a social worker with a minor in women's studies, who has taken university level stats and sociology courses).

But that's all moot because on your Tumblr you announce that " My name is Valentin Seleznyov and i'm a 25 year old kitchen and bathroom designer".

I'm quite aware that it's not a job title. I'm a social scientist in the same sense that i'm a musician and a champion of the blonde cause. Generally there is more to a person than what they do for a living.

And it is you that doesn't seem to understand how statistics work. You're ignoring the very clear discrepancies between the two polls. To assume that the same proportion of views were represented in the second poll is extraordinarily dumb.

But i suppose you need to ignore the tough questions to force your amateurish view.

Modifié par blacqout, 23 février 2012 - 04:00 .

[blacqout]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

blacqout wrote...

That is simply not the case, and as a theory doesn't fit the observed evidence and voting statistics.

Oh? How do you explain the fact that

A: There was only one "long hair" option

B: That option got picked.

There were two features of the winning style: Long and blond. Now, there's no way to truly know which was the determining factor. However, the fact that there were complaints about the color and people saying "I'm voting for the style, not the color," the evidence leans in that direction.

40 percent of the original votes went for the blonde. Trying to pass off the relative few that claimed to have voted for the style as the majority of those that voted for her is rather silly.

And again, those that weren't totally happy are the ones that would have been more likely to follow the story and vote in the second poll. There is a huge difference in the number of participants, and it's amazing that i'm the only one addressing it.

But i suppose we can't all be geniuses.

Modifié par blacqout, 23 février 2012 - 04:09 .