53 réponses à ce sujet

[jcolt]

for some reason my cluster grenade only throws out two grenades but not that big a deal since i rarely use them.

[shepskisaac]

Kaylord wrote...

Nova, as opposed to Pull, has no cooldown.

True, but with minimal cooldowns, you can practically spam Pull all the time

[Berkilak]

VirtualAlex wrote...

I have the charge that hits +2 additonal targets. You think if I have group pull and I pull 3 guys, and then charge 3 guys I get a triple bio explosion?

Grenades are not a waste on silver/gold. That is a stupid thing to say. They have clear states like "force" and "damage" and those numbers are the same in silver/gold. it's like saying sniper rifles are useless on silver/gold because they don't 1-shot people anymore. Everything is WORSE on higher levels but they still work. The cluster grenades still do the same damage they advertise and still blow the hell out of everyone and knock them all over the place.

If I'm missing some trick to give myself unlimited grenades, I'll take that back. Likewise, your analogy is heavily flawed - it might be accurate if Sniper Rifles gave you two or three shots per wave. But they don't. And even with the least ammo, you can still refill when needed.

Again, I may be missing something that would allow me to use grenades more often. If I am, I'd be more than happy to learn how to use them on a regular basis. But given the other options out there... having a limited resource just becomes more and more of a liability as you progress in waves/difficulty levels.

Likewise, don't resort to petty insults like calling someone's stance "stupid." It does nothing but discredit you for attempting to make a debate personal.

Modifié par Berkilak, 22 février 2012 - 03:57 .

[VirtualAlex]

Yeah I understand stasis goes through barrier, but IF you get a phantom in a pull its fully disabled for like 5 seconds. Thats pretty strong.

I have only 3 levels in pull currently. I am kinda trying to spam the passive trees to pump my health/shields. Maybe I shouldn't though... How useful does pull get? I am really not concerned with how long they stay in the air, which is why I avoid it.

[Berkilak]

VirtualAlex wrote...

Yeah I understand stasis goes through barrier, but IF you get a phantom in a pull its fully disabled for like 5 seconds. Thats pretty strong.

I have only 3 levels in pull currently. I am kinda trying to spam the passive trees to pump my health/shields. Maybe I shouldn't though... How useful does pull get? I am really not concerned with how long they stay in the air, which is why I avoid it.

Not nearly as strong as Stasis.

As much as I love my Drell Vanguard (it was the unlock I wanted most and the first I received), it is absolutely laughable how useless he is relative to other classes - particularly the Human Vanguard counterpart. Going back to the human at level 20, I was absolutely blown away by how badly I was decimating the enemy with Nova. While I could tear up a single enemy at a time on my Drell, substituting Nova for melee, I was able to do the same thing to 4+ people at a time.

[shepskisaac]

Berkilak wrote...

As much as I love my Drell Vanguard (it was the unlock I wanted most and the first I received), it is absolutely laughable how useless he is relative to other classes - particularly the Human Vanguard counterpart. Going back to the human at level 20, I was absolutely blown away by how badly I was decimating the enemy with Nova. While I could tear up a single enemy at a time on my Drell, substituting Nova for melee, I was able to do the same thing to 4+ people at a time.

It's kinda true. At the moment, it looks like Drellguard is literally the hardest race-class to play. His low-shields problem is the key. I love him, but it's really hard to play him. IMO, they should buff his shields 50% for the retail release. Having him have TWICE lower shields than human vanguard is just too much, they went overboard with it.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 22 février 2012 - 04:25 .

[playaplayer]

Drell vanguard needs to a buff. Tried playing gold with him for the last couple of days and just can't seem to get him to work right. Wondered if Bioware even beta test him on gold.

[Berkilak]

IsaacShep wrote...

It's kinda true. At the moment, it looks like Drellguard is literally the hardest race-class to play. His low-shields problem is the key. I love him, but it's really hard to play him. IMO, they should buff his shields 50% for the retail release. Having him have TWICE lower shields than human vanguard is just too much, they went overboard with it.

It's not that we're bad. It's just that we bring relatively little to the table relative to our counterparts. His abilities do not compliment each other. Lift and Cluster seem to encourage a ranged-based playstyle that is completely contradictory to the class. Nothing synergizes, and besides the ability to quickly strip Guardians of their shields (which is moot with a decent Sniper), we don't bring much to any teams on a higher level of difficulty.

I wish it weren't true, particularly given the Drell OP melee attacks. But we're just too squishy to fulfill our role well, and we don't have the abilities to make up for that.

[shepskisaac]

Berkilak wrote...

It's not that we're bad. It's just that we bring relatively little to the table relative to our counterparts. His abilities do not compliment each other. Lift and Cluster seem to encourage a ranged-based playstyle that is completely contradictory to the class. Nothing synergizes, and besides the ability to quickly strip Guardians of their shields (which is moot with a decent Sniper), we don't bring much to any teams on a higher level of difficulty.

I wish it weren't true, particularly given the Drell OP melee attacks. But we're just too squishy to fulfill our role well, and we don't have the abilities to make up for that.

On Drellguard's defense, Pull & Charge complimant each other becasue you can set up and detonate biotic explosions all by yourself. And do it on multiple/groups of enemies.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 22 février 2012 - 04:57 .

[No Snakes Alive]

Can't the human Sentinel set up his own detonations too, with the Shockwave evolution that lifts enemies? Shockwave is so much more win this time around.

[Berkilak]

IsaacShep wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

It's not that we're bad. It's just that we bring relatively little to the table relative to our counterparts. His abilities do not compliment each other. Lift and Cluster seem to encourage a ranged-based playstyle that is completely contradictory to the class. Nothing synergizes, and besides the ability to quickly strip Guardians of their shields (which is moot with a decent Sniper), we don't bring much to any teams on a higher level of difficulty.

I wish it weren't true, particularly given the Drell OP melee attacks. But we're just too squishy to fulfill our role well, and we don't have the abilities to make up for that.

On Drellguard's defense, Pull & Charge complimant each other becasue you can set up and detonate biotic explosions all by yourself. And do it on multiple/groups of enemies.

It's still leagues less optimal and less reliable than Nova, which essentially is a more-controlled version of the same tactic. Not to mention when someone floats up out of range of Charge... 

Again, all this being said, I love my drell to bits. I just want to love the mechanics as much as the style. I'm just not sure of what BioWare's intent was for the playstyle of the class/species combination.

[Minic78]

Berkilak wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

It's not that we're bad. It's just that we bring relatively little to the table relative to our counterparts. His abilities do not compliment each other. Lift and Cluster seem to encourage a ranged-based playstyle that is completely contradictory to the class. Nothing synergizes, and besides the ability to quickly strip Guardians of their shields (which is moot with a decent Sniper), we don't bring much to any teams on a higher level of difficulty.

I wish it weren't true, particularly given the Drell OP melee attacks. But we're just too squishy to fulfill our role well, and we don't have the abilities to make up for that.

On Drellguard's defense, Pull & Charge complimant each other becasue you can set up and detonate biotic explosions all by yourself. And do it on multiple/groups of enemies.

It's still leagues less optimal and less reliable than Nova, which essentially is a more-controlled version of the same tactic. Not to mention when someone floats up out of range of Charge... 

Again, all this being said, I love my drell to bits. I just want to love the mechanics as much as the style. I'm just not sure of what BioWare's intent was for the playstyle of the class/species combination.

Hard to disagree, since stasis is the king of CC (despite the ability to spam pull across multiple targets almost twice as fast). But I think all he needs to compare with the asari adept's support capability is something that actually meshes with his role or compensates for his weakness instead of those dumb grenades.

Modifié par Minic78, 22 février 2012 - 08:35 .

[D Amiri]

 I've been playing alot of Drellguard the last few days.  Having a blast.  Played and completed my first Gold match tonight (finished in first place, full extraction).  Silver is usually no problem with 3-4 players.  Solo'd Bronze three times.  Once with Mattock VI, once with tempest VII & Phalanx V, and finally with only a katana VII.  
I have three accounts i used; one on the 360, and two on the PS3.  This has allowed me to test out my builds.  The last build I have is the one the I like the most.  i think one of reasons people have bad experiences with the Drell is because they can't respect.  Hereis my build:

Lvl 4 Biotic Charge:  Power and Damage Bonus
Lvl 6 Pull:  Radius, Expose (lifted dmg bonus), 50% Duration and Combo Bonus
Lvl 6 Cluster Grenades:  Radius, 3rd Grenade, 50% Force and Damage Bonus
Lvl 5 Drell Assassin:  Power Damage and Weight, 15% Power and Force Bonus
Lvl 5 Fitness:  Durability, Shield Recharge Bonus[/b] 

At first I thought that AR's and long range combat was the way to go.  But now I feel that Shotgun is the way to go.  I use pull + charge + detonation to kill targets on the edge of groups.  Charge + shotgun + nade to the face or feet to kill shielded targets or groups of targets.  These same tactics worked on Gold they just required more shotgun blasts.

You really have to get good with cluster grenades.  If your target is out in the open then you charge and try to either hit them in face with the nade or throw it at your feet.   If they are not out inthe open then you can use the geometry to your benefit.  Bounce them off the wall or into the corner behind the target you charged.  Or charge and kill a mook then turn throw them into the group near you.  As you run the map hit every ammo crate to make sure you always have nades.  My kills are 30% nades, 30% charge detonations, 25% guns, 5% melee, and 10% fall damage from pull.

The class is far from useless.  your powers do synergize well and you can still play an aggressive in your face style of Vanguard.  You just can't play the ME3 style power spam VG like the human.  You need to play more like a ME2 style vanguard.  Charge, shotgun/kill one target, take cover or LOS, pick a new target repeat.  You just have to be more stratedgic in picking you next target and Charge is not always only answer when you see an enemy.   

[IlluminaZer0]

D Amiri wrote...
You just can't play the ME3 style power spam VG like the human.  You need to play more like a ME2 style vanguard.  Charge, shotgun/kill one target, take cover or LOS, pick a new target repeat.  You just have to be more stratedgic in picking you next target and Charge is not always only answer when you see an enemy.   

This guy gets it.

Modifié par IlluminaZer0, 25 février 2012 - 09:39 .

[TehJumpingJawa]

Are we discussing drell vanguard builds for bronze, silver, or gold?

Bronze->anything works
Silver->damage output is of greater importance as staying alive isn't such a challenge.
Gold->survivability is key.

[D Amiri]

TehJumpingJawa wrote...

Are we discussing drell vanguard builds for bronze, silver, or gold?

Bronze->anything works
Silver->damage output is of greater importance as staying alive isn't such a challenge.
Gold->survivability is key.

I can solo bronze and finish at the top on silver or gold.  Survivabilty is about the player not the class.  Drellguards are viable on any difficulty.  There is no enemy you can't beat one on one and no groups you can't defeat if you approach them smartly.  The only rule I have is that on FB:White I do not step foot on the landing pad unless it's for extraction.

[Wizardmanguy]

Berkilak wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

It's not that we're bad. It's just that we bring relatively little to the table relative to our counterparts. His abilities do not compliment each other. Lift and Cluster seem to encourage a ranged-based playstyle that is completely contradictory to the class. Nothing synergizes, and besides the ability to quickly strip Guardians of their shields (which is moot with a decent Sniper), we don't bring much to any teams on a higher level of difficulty.

I wish it weren't true, particularly given the Drell OP melee attacks. But we're just too squishy to fulfill our role well, and we don't have the abilities to make up for that.

On Drellguard's defense, Pull & Charge complimant each other becasue you can set up and detonate biotic explosions all by yourself. And do it on multiple/groups of enemies.

It's still leagues less optimal and less reliable than Nova, which essentially is a more-controlled version of the same tactic. Not to mention when someone floats up out of range of Charge... 

Again, all this being said, I love my drell to bits. I just want to love the mechanics as much as the style. I'm just not sure of what BioWare's intent was for the playstyle of the class/species combination.

I'm sorry that you seem to be missing the playstyle of the Drellguard, but it isn't nearly as bad as you and a lot of other people seem to be saying it is. Try cluster grenades in a closed room. Spam them like you would nova, and hit up a box. Trust me, it's a lot better and a lot safer than nova. Especially in a closed room. 

@OP, 

Drellguards are extrmely user-dependent. IF you don't know how to utilize the best parts of your character or know how to pilot them, you'll get burned by the class. Easiest thing I could bestow upon you is just some simple rules I've used to stay successful. 

1) Your skills are situational. You should be shooting more times than hitting the power buttons. 
2) Pick your spots. Cluster grenades can detonate warp, along with other biotic skills, but they spread. Pick a closed-in room, and watch the kills rack up. 
3)Charge only when absolutely needed. 
4)Pull shields off of guardians. 
5)Try grabbing enemies behind cover. You get extra points, and you're invinciable when you do it. 
6)Keep moving. Shoot, dodge, shoot dodge; and you should be behind cover to reload. 
7)Despite what people say you can solo multiple phantoms and atlas'. All you need to do is use the character correctly. 
8)Don't take unnessicary risks. 

[Berkilak]

Wizardmanguy wrote...@OP, 

Drellguards are extrmely user-dependent. IF you don't know how to utilize the best parts of your character or know how to pilot them, you'll get burned by the class. Easiest thing I could bestow upon you is just some simple rules I've used to stay successful. 

1) Your skills are situational. You should be shooting more times than hitting the power buttons. 
2) Pick your spots. Cluster grenades can detonate warp, along with other biotic skills, but they spread. Pick a closed-in room, and watch the kills rack up. 
3)Charge only when absolutely needed. 
4)Pull shields off of guardians. 
5)Try grabbing enemies behind cover. You get extra points, and you're invinciable when you do it. 
6)Keep moving. Shoot, dodge, shoot dodge; and you should be behind cover to reload. 
7)Despite what people say you can solo multiple phantoms and atlas'. All you need to do is use the character correctly. 
8)Don't take unnessicary risks. 

Read: play as a poor man's Adept, not a Vanguard. 

I think you'll be a lot more comfortable as a drell Adept - they have Charge replaced with Reave, thereby actually supporting the ranged support playstyle you detail (which is not the purpose of a Vanguard).

[Hyrist]

Hey Berkilak, we get it, you hate Drellguard.

You don't need to spread your hate to multiple threads.

[Berkilak]

Hyrist wrote...

Hey Berkilak, we get it, you hate Drellguard.

You don't need to spread your hate to multiple threads.

Nope, I love it conceptually more than anything else the game has to offer. That being said, I would appreciate it if you would stop attempting to draw me into petty forum catfights across multiple threads. It is unbecoming.

Modifié par Berkilak, 25 février 2012 - 03:14 .

[Omnitien]

Quick tip with the Drellguard, when faced with a group of foes, I charge in and cluster nade them in the face and mop up with the shotgun. This has been quite possible the most fun thing to, particularly duoing with another Drellguard and competing with them for the kills. =D

Edit: Okay, less a tip, more of a 'how I utilize' post.

Modifié par Omnitien, 25 février 2012 - 03:40 .

[Hyrist]

 

Nope, I love it conceptually more than anything else the game has to offer. That being said, I would appreciate it if you would stop attempting to draw me into petty forum catfights across multiple threads. It is unbecoming.

What's infuriating is that you're concept of a Drell Vanguard is near- identicle to that of a Human Vanguard. Thane should have tipped you off on what a Drell is, but you seem to insist with every reply that such an approach is too flimsy and in error.

As far as a build for Vanguard,  I'm going to want to get the full game before I respec completely.

Recharge/Shield Charge

Cluster Gernade for max disruption (Ammo Capasity, Range, Sharpnel)

And I'm fighting on the last three segments. Right now I'm glass cannon in Gold, which is really hurtful. Full health in fitness is almost a must, but really damages what you can do with pull in larger difficulties, and as someone built to flank and assassinate, damage over health is kinda the best way. 

Very difficult to determine with only Cerberus (Primarily Tech which goes against a Drell's kit. ) as refrence. I'll have to see in the full game.

[D Amiri]

Flip Cancelling

In one of the other Drell threads one of the dev's mentioned that the Drell dodge has a 50% damage reduction and that he suggested Charging an enemy then to immediately back flipping to safety.  This got me thinking.  So I started using flips alots to see if there was any benefit.  This complete changed my Drell playstyle.  By using flips and flip cancels I was able to play more aggressively then I was previously.  My gameplay become more fluid and I could tackle groups of enemies much easier.

Not only does flipping give you a 50% damage reduction, but it seems to it throws off the AI's aim tracking (not Atlus Rockets or Turrets) allowing a few vital seconds to escape from bad situations.  Your flips cover alot of ground and also cause hitstun.  If you flip into enemies they will stumble thus buying you time.

Flips cancel the frames of all you animations with the exception of Charge, Heavy Melee, and the first hit of the Drell chain melee.  So if you wait till you animation executes a move you can immediately flip to safety.  If you are getting your shields popped everytime you try to cast Pull or throw Nades start using flips.  

Cast Pull and as soon as you see the ball leave your hand flip cancel the animation.  You will usually be back behind cover and when you recover from the flip your cooldowns are ready again. The same can be done with nades, CHarge, Nade to face or feet, flip away.  You can Charge, shotgun, flip cancel away before your bullets even hit there target.  With alittle practice you can Charge into small groups and dance in and out of cover without taking alot of damage.  It still requires smart play and a great feel for what to do when because of your non-existent shields, but you can play a lot more aggressively.

You can flip cancel:

Pull
Cluster Nades
Second hit of chain melee
Immediately after Charge hits
Recovery of forward roll
Immediately after firing your weapon

My usual tactics:

Strafe out of cover, Pull, flip cancel back into cover
Charge Pulled target, Booom, flip out of LOS
Look for more targets to Pull and Charge
Charge shielded enemy, shotgun, nade, flip away as nades leave my hand
Charge group, nade at wall/corner/barrier/enemies, forward roll into nade blast radius, flip cancel roll through flying enemies

None of this is game changing or ground breaking.  It definately isn't OP like Nova cancels.  But it will help with your survivabilty and you will look stylish will doing it.



 

[Irish Porkchopp]

D Amiri wrote...

Flip Cancelling

In one of the other Drell threads one of the dev's mentioned that the Drell dodge has a 50% damage reduction and that he suggested Charging an enemy then to immediately back flipping to safety.  This got me thinking.  So I started using flips alots to see if there was any benefit.  This complete changed my Drell playstyle.  By using flips and flip cancels I was able to play more aggressively then I was previously.  My gameplay become more fluid and I could tackle groups of enemies much easier.

Not only does flipping give you a 50% damage reduction, but it seems to it throws off the AI's aim tracking (not Atlus Rockets or Turrets) allowing a few vital seconds to escape from bad situations.  Your flips cover alot of ground and also cause hitstun.  If you flip into enemies they will stumble thus buying you time.

Flips cancel the frames of all you animations with the exception of Charge, Heavy Melee, and the first hit of the Drell chain melee.  So if you wait till you animation executes a move you can immediately flip to safety.  If you are getting your shields popped everytime you try to cast Pull or throw Nades start using flips.  

Cast Pull and as soon as you see the ball leave your hand flip cancel the animation.  You will usually be back behind cover and when you recover from the flip your cooldowns are ready again. The same can be done with nades, CHarge, Nade to face or feet, flip away.  You can Charge, shotgun, flip cancel away before your bullets even hit there target.  With alittle practice you can Charge into small groups and dance in and out of cover without taking alot of damage.  It still requires smart play and a great feel for what to do when because of your non-existent shields, but you can play a lot more aggressively.

You can flip cancel:

Pull
Cluster Nades
Second hit of chain melee
Immediately after Charge hits
Recovery of forward roll
Immediately after firing your weapon

My usual tactics:

Strafe out of cover, Pull, flip cancel back into cover
Charge Pulled target, Booom, flip out of LOS
Look for more targets to Pull and Charge
Charge shielded enemy, shotgun, nade, flip away as nades leave my hand
Charge group, nade at wall/corner/barrier/enemies, forward roll into nade blast radius, flip cancel roll through flying enemies

None of this is game changing or ground breaking.  It definately isn't OP like Nova cancels.  But it will help with your survivabilty and you will look stylish will doing it.



 

Flipping really is the key.  It's so fun to charge then immediately backflip away to a safe distance.  I usually play with the carnifex so I charge->backflip->headshot.  Then I can repeat or flip away somewhere else.  

[Navasha]

I will be experimenting with the Drell more in the actual game. I already had a 16th level human vanguard by the time I got him, and I really messed up his build.

I think pull and charge with very low cooldowns could be really effective, since charge will detonate a biotic explosion on lifted targets. My current build though is less than stellar since its so messed up.