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[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]Ziggeh wrote...

Not all of them. Many of them greatly benefit from interaction with little negative effect, and while countries aren't comparable to civilsations built from beings who may fundimentally differ from one another, even within this limited analogy the inevitable conclusion of all relationships is not hatred and distruction. 
Which is my entire point.[/qutoe]

So I guess it's because of this aura of love and understanding that each country is trying to one-up the other?

No Sir, we certanly AREN'T dominated militarliy, culturaly, politicly or economicly by someone....


[quote]
[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote... And I'm making assumptions based on the realities of the universe.[/quote]What realities? Please describe the realities of the universe that inform the decisions of alien civilisations that likely differ from us in ways we can't fathom.[/quote]

The realities of survival.
It really doesn't matter what the aliens are like. Corporation and competition are two sides of the same coin.
If they aren't competitive enough, they will get dominated by those that are.

[Ziggeh]

[qoute]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
"The path they desire" is our dependancy on the mass relays. [/qoute]
And this is bringing order to chaos, yes?

[qoute]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Because quite clearly, we can hurt them with their "own" tech so why would they want us to develop along that path?[/qoute]
Because it makes us predictable and easier to manipulate. They actively want civilisations at a given point of advancement, that's the whole point, so what better way to ensure your dominance than by ensuring that they only develop within the parameters that you define.

Honestly, I think this is the entire point of them as villians. They aren't just big bad metal monsters from the sky. It's not just a big ol' fight, it's breaking the control they've imposed upon the galaxy.

It's almost a little sad that people have missed that.

[qoute]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
And that's precisely why we want to study it. If they attempt to booby trap it, then it's something they want to keep away from us.[/qoute]
That's a little more than "booby trapping". They retain control of it and the things to which it is connected despite best efforts to render it inert.

I agree, and am certainly not ignoring that their is potential power, but they've proven they can dominate the development of countless species and it looks like they've allowed for the eventuality that this tech might fall into others hands. Powerful or not, it doesn't fall outside of their planning and so can only ever be of limited use.

[Goneaviking]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And why are there countrameasures? Because they dont' want you to have it!
They WANT us to have MAss relays. Tehy WANT us to have the Citadel.
They DON'T wan us to have the IFF or hte Collector Base. Their best tech is there. The things they were keeping for themselves.

I find it difficult to credit the notion that the reapers would give their organic slaves any technology that could foreseeably be used against them. They are supposed to be supergeniuses after all, and what supergenius couldn't foresee the possibility of losing control of their slaves?

They have full control of the Collectors. They have as much to fear from them as you have from a vacuum cleaner rebelling agaisnt you.

And the Collectors were building a new reaper. What kind of tech goes into a reaper if not the best reaper tech?
Or do you think reapers guard their best tech so well, not even they use it?

They have full control of the collectors for now. There always existed the possibility that someone could take control away from them, or that they could just develop an immunity to it. That it didn't happen isn't proof that it couldn't happen, and it certainly would have been easier for the collectors to just keep using the equipment that their ancestors had developed as the protheans rather than depend on the reapers to make them a new ship, new guns, new everything.

When Normandy 2.0 makes it through the relay the only piece of tech it needs for the journey (distinct from the battle with the collector ship) that they didn't figure out for themselves was IFF. It was always a possibility that someone would figure out how to get through, and having accomplished that to find a way to block Harbinger's transmissions and domination.

As for the baby reaper. It looked to me like it was being grown as much as being assembled. If that's true then once the process was kicked off then it would keep growing itself according to it's own genetic template. Provided the human goo kept coming the fun stuff could have just grown at their own pace.

It seems to me that the races have a better shot at surviving by developing their own technology which they already understand than in rushing through the reverse engineering process to duplicate techno-goodies that they won't understand or be able to further develop (in the short term) which could in fact be a red herring anyway.

Because we have a thousand years time before the reaper come?

Any weapon we don't understand is as much a liability as a benefit. The months available for research wouldn't be enough to fully reverse engineer the technology let alone understand it, duplicate it and train fleets in it's use and maintenance. Even if they managed to get a functional cannon, or shield, or ftl drive, or whatever onto their ships and gave them a big red button to turn them on, they wouldn't be able to repair it when inevitably something went wrong.

Which is ignoring that the resources available to the Citadel races aren't exactly paltry. They're the product of thousands of years of development, and the very existence of the first Normandy is proof of their ability to innovate and adapt their technology in response to each others ideas.

Further, every war depends as much on logistics and infrastructure as much as on weapons. If not moreso. The ability to get the right resources to the right spot, at the right time and in the right numbers to accomplish their objectives.

Strategy counts, and the current races know their neighbourhoods better than the reapers do given that they generally spend 50 000 years hibernating, or watching Baywatch reruns or whatever out in dark space. If there are spatial phenomenon or dangerous regions that can be exploited then the organics will be able to capitilise on them much more readily than the reapers.

As long as their supply lines and communications aren't cut, and effective co-ordination can be achieved the situation for fleshy things (and the geth) isn't as impossible as it's made out to be, even without the booty from the Collector Base.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Oh yes..such grand and important decisions were made there...wait..what exactly did Shep command?
"shoot that guy"
I must prostrate myself before the tactical genius that is Shepard....

That is more a downfall of ME1's abysmal combat AI and (in regards to the console version) lack of squadmate control than anything. Game logic rarely factors so literally into story; Final Fantasy, bless it, is the purest example, where I'm pretty sure the story kindly ignores the fact that all fighting in-game involves standing in lines across from the enemy and taking turns b****-slapping each other in the face.

If we were to consider these missions in more realistic terms, the fact that Shepard got his squad through almost entirely intact and successfully completely all missions is nothing to sneeze at, and most people at his rank would have either failed abysmally or won out with heavier losses.

No problem. Ther'es plenty of people willing to work for Cerberus and/or against the Collectors.

Know enough about the repaers? Everything Shep knows can be easily summed up in 1 minutes. He doesnt' have any special anti-reaper knowledge.

Right, let's approach a random military admiral and spout a summary of ME1, and see how fast he refers you to the local madhouse. My point has less to do with information as it does with actual knowledge; Shepard KNOWS it to be true, and is already intent on doing something about it. Wanting to fight the Collectors is one thing, but that doesn't necessarily equate to believing in the threat behind it.

Adn shepards awesomness is - as always -over inflated. I'd ALWAYS take 3 commandos over your "legitemately awesome one". ALWAYS. In the real world, they'd always wipe the floor with him.

Why the bloody hell do you think Shep always has at least two squaddies with him? And did you even read that the last time I wrote it?

No, that's because of sucky writing and the "oceans 11 feel".
Not a single person in the entire crew is irreplacable. No one.

I never said any of them were irreplacable apart from Shepard, who at least has a combination of skill, authority, and past exposure to the Reaper threat to his name. The others are just particularly elite individuals that were scouted out as ideal additions to the mission team; the only one that I'd say was entirely necessary was Mordin Solus for his research expertise. And the game at least partly agrees, since you're not forced to recruit anyone specific apart from Mordin, Garrus, and Jack (filling out the bare-bones "combat, tech, and biotic" quota).

[Lotion Soronarr]

Ziggeh wrote...

[qoute]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
"The path they desire" is our dependancy on the mass relays. [/qoute]
And this is bringing order to chaos, yes?

Yes. As much as your interpretation does.

[qoute]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Because quite clearly, we can hurt them with their "own" tech so why would they want us to develop along that path?[/qoute]
Because it makes us predictable and easier to manipulate. They actively want civilisations at a given point of advancement, that's the whole point, so what better way to ensure your dominance than by ensuring that they only develop within the parameters that you define.

Meh. There's nothing predictable about technology. They CAN'T control us in that regard.

Why do you think they leave a vanguard to check up on the progress? So tehy know when we might be becoming too dangerous. Too close to their own tech. Especially if their doom lasers and shields are just a natural progression from what we have now.

[qoute]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
And that's precisely why we want to study it. If they attempt to booby trap it, then it's something they want to keep away from us.[/qoute]
That's a little more than "booby trapping". They retain control of it and the things to which it is connected despite best efforts to render it inert.

I agree, and am certainly not ignoring that their is potential power, but they've proven they can dominate the development of countless species and it looks like they've allowed for the eventuality that this tech might fall into others hands. Powerful or not, it doesn't fall outside of their planning and so can only ever be of limited use.

I like it how you ignore the whole paragraph about how studying repaer tech saved  the races of the galaxy 3 times in a row...

[Lotion Soronarr]

Goneaviking wrote...
As for the baby reaper. It looked to me like it was being grown as much as being assembled. If that's true then once the process was kicked off then it would keep growing itself according to it's own genetic template. Provided the human goo kept coming the fun stuff could have just grown at their own pace.

Thats' not how it works. The core is inserted into a reaper shell (the starship).
It isn't grown. It is built.
So you're sying their building a full-grown reaper with reaper weapons, reaper shields , reaper sensors and reaper engines...without reaper tech?

Because we have a thousand years time before the reaper come?

Any weapon we don't understand is as much a liability as a benefit. The months available for research wouldn't be enough to fully reverse engineer the technology let alone understand it, duplicate it and train fleets in it's use and maintenance. Even if they managed to get a functional cannon, or shield, or ftl drive, or whatever onto their ships and gave them a big red button to turn them on, they wouldn't be able to repair it when inevitably something went wrong.

And you know this..how? How do you know we wouldn't be abel to repair it? How do you know we can't get anything usefull?

Which is ignoring that the resources available to the Citadel races aren't exactly paltry. They're the product of thousands of years of development, and the very existence of the first Normandy is proof of their ability to innovate and adapt their technology in response to each others ideas.

And all of that will fail epicly in a clash against the reapers. Sovereing alone, stationary and in a tacticly disadvantageous position took on TWO fleets and was kickin ass.
The Normandy is so insignificant, it's laughable.

Further, every war depends as much on logistics and infrastructure as much as on weapons. If not moreso. The ability to get the right resources to the right spot, at the right time and in the right numbers to accomplish their objectives.

Which makes the reapers even MORE dangerous, since they don't have our logistical weakness. And are also faster and moe manouverable, and strategicly more mobile. They don't have fixed assets to defend either.
That alone is such a MASSIVE advantage, then tehy would wipe us out even if their fleets were equal to ours in strength.

Strategy counts, and the current races know their neighbourhoods better than the reapers do given that they generally spend 50 000 years hibernating, or watching Baywatch reruns or whatever out in dark space. If there are spatial phenomenon or dangerous regions that can be exploited then the organics will be able to capitilise on them much more readily than the reapers.

37 million year old super-strship with super-intellects, who know the galaxy like the plam of their hand will be easily tricked by us?
Are you forgetting they were working with the Shadow Broker?

As long as their supply lines and communications aren't cut, and effective co-ordination can be achieved the situation for fleshy things (and the geth) isn't as impossible as it's made out to be, even without the booty from the Collector Base.

Yeah right. You forgetting the indoctrination? Epic backstabing, betrail and inteligence leaks follows.
And that instant-comunication is stanrard for all reapers?



I mean seriously..... Bio has set up the reapers with so many epic advantages that even if you put a retard in charge of the reaper invasion, tehy would win easily.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 23 février 2012 - 02:44 .

[Ziggeh]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

So I guess it's because of this aura of love and understanding that each country is trying to one-up the other?

 

Weren't you complaining about straw men a moment ago? I'm saying that we cannot feasibly know. How did that translate to a suggestion that everyone else will be hippies?

Lotion Soronnar wrote... 
The realities of survival.
It really doesn't matter what the aliens are like. Corporation and competition are two sides of the same coin.
If they aren't competitive enough, they will get dominated by those that are.

This is very silly. We passed the point at which competition was required for survival several thousand years ago. We call it "civilisation". You're still trying to apply simplistic, animalistic motives to something almost infinitely more complex.
You're trying to say that a civilisation that could cross the vastness of space would basically act like a really big mountain lion. Firstly, even we wouldn't because sweeping reductive generalisations wierdly don't accurately apply to entire populations and secondly they're alien. As in different. As in we have no way of predicting.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

If we were to consider these missions in more realistic terms, the fact that Shepard got his squad through almost entirely intact and successfully completely all missions is nothing to sneeze at, and most people at his rank would have either failed abysmally or won out with heavier losses.

Excuse me if I'm not impressed wiht Sheps character/plot shields and reload function....

No problem. Ther'es plenty of people willing to work for Cerberus and/or against the Collectors.

Know enough about the repaers? Everything Shep knows can be easily summed up in 1 minutes. He doesnt' have any special anti-reaper knowledge.

Right, let's approach a random military admiral and spout a summary of ME1, and see how fast he refers you to the local madhouse. My point has less to do with information as it does with actual knowledge; Shepard KNOWS it to be true, and is already intent on doing something about it. Wanting to fight the Collectors is one thing, but that doesn't necessarily equate to believing in the threat behind it.

Given that TIM had no problem finding poeple willing to fight the Collectors, I don't see a problem.
There's literaly MILLIONS of potential soldeirs who would go fight. Cerberus has it's own squads. And TIM has proof of Collector activity.
Putting together a large team that dwarfs Shepards would be easy.

Adn shepards awesomness is - as always -over inflated. I'd ALWAYS take 3 commandos over your "legitemately awesome one". ALWAYS. In the real world, they'd always wipe the floor with him.

Why the bloody hell do you think Shep always has at least two squaddies with him? And did you even read that the last time I wrote it?

So? I'll have 9 then.
Quantity is a value on it own. Quantity + Quality = epic win.

You assume that there is a MASSIVE chasm in qualtiy between Shep and his team and everone else.

No, that's because of sucky writing and the "oceans 11 feel".
Not a single person in the entire crew is irreplacable. No one.

I never said any of them were irreplacable apart from Shepard, who at least has a combination of skill, authority, and past exposure to the Reaper threat to his name. The others are just particularly elite individuals that were scouted out as ideal additions to the mission team; the only one that I'd say was entirely necessary was Mordin Solus for his research expertise. And the game at least partly agrees, since you're not forced to recruit anyone specific apart from Mordin, Garrus, and Jack (filling out the bare-bones "combat, tech, and biotic" quota).

Shepard and Moridin are also replacable.
Shepard isn't the only team leader in the galaxy adn Morodin isn't the only scientist.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Ziggeh wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote... 
The realities of survival.
It really doesn't matter what the aliens are like. Corporation and competition are two sides of the same coin.
If they aren't competitive enough, they will get dominated by those that are.

This is very silly. We passed the point at which competition was required for survival several thousand years ago. We call it "civilisation". You're still trying to apply simplistic, animalistic motives to something almost infinitely more complex.
You're trying to say that a civilisation that could cross the vastness of space would basically act like a really big mountain lion. Firstly, even we wouldn't because sweeping reductive generalisations wierdly don't accurately apply to entire populations and secondly they're alien. As in different. As in we have no way of predicting.

And you are trying to ignore the human nature and the nature of survival.

If humantiy were to stumble upon another alien race? We would either dominate it or it would dominate us.

And them being aliens changes nothing. They'll either follow the same rules of thez universe as everyone else or end up at hte bottom of the food chain.

If the race of My Little Ponies bumped into Krogans....gees, I wonder how equal and independant they would be?

Any rational race will protect it's interests.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 23 février 2012 - 02:56 .

[Ziggeh]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...Meh. There's nothing predictable about technology. They CAN'T control us in that regard.

Unless you provide the blueprints. Which they did.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...Why do you think they leave a vanguard to check up on the progress? So tehy know when we might be becoming too dangerous. Too close to their own tech. Especially if their doom lasers and shields are just a natural progression from what we have now.

Because they're imposing order on the chaos, not eliminating the chaos to begin with. We still have to evolve, take to the stars and discover the relays before the grand plan kicks in. That's not a predictable time frame.

Lotion Soronnar wrote... I like it how you ignore the whole paragraph about how studying repaer tech saved  the races of the galaxy 3 times in a row...

See where I said "I'm not ignoring the potential power", that's me not ignoring the potential power. 
But we're no longer talking about disabling traps and unlocking doors. We're beyond that. The fleet is here. The conditions under which use of the tech has saved the galaxy no longer exist.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 23 février 2012 - 03:15 .

[Gruzmog]

While you are campaiging against reaper tech, you ignore that without studying it, the curretnly cycle would have aloready been lost.

Perhaps this is were the game lacked in options, I was the one with the only ship capabale of traveling trought the omega 4 relay, I could have given the base for research to anyone I pleased. Be it Council, Human Alliance, or Cerberus. But if its only a dual choise I think the damage Cerberus can do with it is just too big. Not an invalid opinion as it turns out in ME3 for as far as we can see now.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Shepard and Moridin are also replacable.
Shepard isn't the only team leader in the galaxy adn Morodin isn't the only scientist.

You know, I was going to waste time arguing the whole post, but then I realized that it isn't worth trying to butt intellects with someone who's capable of mis-spelling the same name two different ways in the space of two lines of text.

Mordin isn't the only scientist, but not all scientists are as capable of achieving this specific end as Mordin, just as not all team leaders are as capable as Shepard at leading a squad in a mission to stop minions of the Reapers from continuing to abduct thousands upon thousands of colonists. There have always been those amongst the masses of expendable cannon fodder who set themselves above and beyond the rank and file as the "best" or "brightest" at their chosen field. Shepard is that to what he does, Mordin is that to all that scientific mishmash. While other scientists and commanders and whatnot could have been put in their shoes and given the same assignments to complete, that doesn't necessarily mean they would have been as successful, or that they would have achieved results as expediently.

That's all I'm saying: the "elite" are elite because they bloody earned it where others couldn't.

[Ziggeh]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
And you are trying to ignore the human nature and the nature of survival.

 
Haha, yes, when talking about things that may fundementally differ from humans I'm avoiding refering to it in terms of human nature. Because that would be a hugely flawed line of reasoning.
Again, the "laws of survival" only apply to pre civilisation species, and even then, not in the way you think they do.

Lotion Soronnar wrote... 
And them being aliens changes nothing. 

  
They'd be alien. Which changes absolutely everything. They may not even follow the same physical laws as us, but still you try to apply misconceived generalised ideas about human psychology.

Lotion Soronnar wrote... 
If the race of My Little Ponies bumped into Krogans....gees, I wonder how equal and independant they would be? 

   
Familiar parrallels are literally the problem with this discussion. So try not wondering.

[LTiberious]

Ziggeh wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
And you are trying to ignore the human nature and the nature of survival.

 
Haha, yes, when talking about things that may fundementally differ from humans I'm avoiding refering to it in terms of human nature. Because that would be a hugely flawed line of reasoning.
Again, the "laws of survival" only apply to pre civilisation species, and even then, not in the way you think they do.

Well.. They apply everywhere. The nature of a persons mind doesnt change depending the civilisations level (!).

Cause persists. The effect changes.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Ziggeh wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...Meh. There's nothing predictable about technology. They CAN'T control us in that regard.

Unless you provide the blueprints. Which they did.

Nope.
How can they stop us researching into other areas? They can't.

They didn't provide blueprints for everything we use - just the FTL drives (if even that).

Because they're imposing order on the chaos, not eliminating the chaos to begin with. We still have to evolve, take to the stars and discover the relays before the grand plan kicks in. That's not a predictable time frame.

Well, beign restricted to Mass Relays and the network IS imposing order to chaos.
They know exactly where to look and where we are.

Lotion Soronnar wrote... I like it how you ignore the whole paragraph about how studying repaer tech saved  the races of the galaxy 3 times in a row...

See where I said "I'm not ignoring the potential power", that's me not ignoring the potential power. 
But we're no longer talking about disabling traps and unlocking doors. We're beyond that. The fleet is here. The conditions under which use of the tech has saved the galaxy no longer exist.

Sez who? You?

It saved us 3 time, but now it won't..because you say so?
In a choice between historical proof and your hunch, I take historical proof.
Studied reaper tech has been a great boon EVERY TIME.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Gruzmog wrote...

While you are campaiging against reaper tech, you ignore that without studying it, the curretnly cycle would have aloready been lost.

Perhaps this is were the game lacked in options, I was the one with the only ship capabale of traveling trought the omega 4 relay, I could have given the base for research to anyone I pleased. Be it Council, Human Alliance, or Cerberus. But if its only a dual choise I think the damage Cerberus can do with it is just too big. Not an invalid opinion as it turns out in ME3 for as far as we can see now.

Compared to the damage the reapers can cause?

Seriously, wtf do you pople think Cerberus can do with it?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Shepard and Moridin are also replacable.
Shepard isn't the only team leader in the galaxy adn Morodin isn't the only scientist.

You know, I was going to waste time arguing the whole post, but then I realized that it isn't worth trying to butt intellects with someone who's capable of mis-spelling the same name two different ways in the space of two lines of text.

Spare me. If my speed typos are how you measure intellect, I feel sorry for you and your whole congitive process.

Mordin isn't the only scientist, but not all scientists are as capable of achieving this specific end as Mordin, just as not all team leaders are as capable as Shepard at leading a squad in a mission to stop minions of the Reapers from continuing to abduct thousands upon thousands of colonists. There have always been those amongst the masses of expendable cannon fodder who set themselves above and beyond the rank and file as the "best" or "brightest" at their chosen field. Shepard is that to what he does, Mordin is that to all that scientific mishmash. While other scientists and commanders and whatnot could have been put in their shoes and given the same assignments to complete, that doesn't necessarily mean they would have been as successful, or that they would have achieved results as expediently.

That's all I'm saying: the "elite" are elite because they bloody earned it where others couldn't.

Doesn't matter. They aren't the only ones.

Just because Shepard can shoot 10 baddies in 5 seconds, while the other potential elite can shoot "only" 9, doesn't make Shepard irreplacable. Same for Morodin. Doesn't matter if you're great. Youre' not irreplacable. Morodin isn't the only Salarian scientist with knowledge in the field - heck, he isn't the onyl scienist in that field in general. There's thousands one can choose. Hek, why choose one? Cerberus can set an entire team of scientists on that task.

You cna't tell me others would fail. Skill levels aren't MMO-like vast chasms that make one untouchable or unreachable.

[Ziggeh]

LTiberious wrote...

Well.. They apply everywhere. The nature of a persons mind doesnt change depending the civilisations level (!).

Cause persists. The effect changes.

We could rapidly roll down the road of nature versus nurture, which I've no great desire to do (largely because the inevitable conclusion to such a debate is "it's a bit more complicated than that"), so to go back to my original point:

We can't say with any certainty that any aliens we meet will even have minds, or that they will have even developed through evolution. The case can be made that their's a decent probability for both, but that's as far as we can go.

To decide from that position that they'd roll right up and start fightin' because "that's what we would do because we're a shower of dicks" is, at best, problematic.

Modifié par Ziggeh, 23 février 2012 - 05:03 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Ziggeh wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
And you are trying to ignore the human nature and the nature of survival.

 
Haha, yes, when talking about things that may fundementally differ from humans I'm avoiding refering to it in terms of human nature. Because that would be a hugely flawed line of reasoning.
Again, the "laws of survival" only apply to pre civilisation species, and even then, not in the way you think they do.

No, it applies to everyone, everywhere, all the time.

Survival isn't a "human" thing. Dominance ins't "human" thing. Sucess ins't a "human" thing.

Lotion Soronnar wrote... 
And them being aliens changes nothing. 

  

They'd be alien. Which changes absolutely everything. They may not even follow the same physical laws as us, but still you try to apply misconceived generalised ideas about human psychology.

Wut? Of couse they will follow the same phisical laws. Are you high or something?
And human psyche is a product of the nature of the universe.

Also, ME aliens are pretty much like us, so your points are ALL moot.

Lotion Soronnar wrote... 
If the race of My Little Ponies bumped into Krogans....gees, I wonder how equal and independant they would be? 

   
Familiar parrallels are literally the problem with this discussion. So try not wondering.

dont' wanna answer that one? Thought so.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 23 février 2012 - 05:05 .

[LTiberious]

Ziggeh wrote...

LTiberious wrote...

Well.. They apply everywhere. The nature of a persons mind doesnt change depending the civilisations level (!).

Cause persists. The effect changes.

We could rapidly roll down the road of nature versus nurture, which I've no great desire to do (largely because the inevitable conclusion to such a debate is "it's a bit more complicated than that"), so to go back to my original point:

We can't say with any certainty that any aliens we meet will even have minds, or that they will have even developed through evolution. The case can be made that their's a decent probability for both, but that's as far as we can go.

To decide from that position that they'd roll right up and start fightin' because "that's what we would do because we're a shower of dicks" is, at best, problematic.

Cerberus does a good job at cover-ops warfare.

Because lets be honest, a frontal assault is the stupidest idea.

So, im pro-cerb and cover-ops (hell, even making human biotics is thanks to them), but against frontal-assault.

Cripple your enemies from the dark ©

[Zkyire]

Ziggeh wrote...

LTiberious wrote...

Well.. They apply everywhere. The nature of a persons mind doesnt change depending the civilisations level (!).

Cause persists. The effect changes.

We could rapidly roll down the road of nature versus nurture, which I've no great desire to do (largely because the inevitable conclusion to such a debate is "it's a bit more complicated than that"), so to go back to my original point:

We can't say with any certainty that any aliens we meet will even have minds, or that they will have even developed through evolution. The case can be made that their's a decent probability for both, but that's as far as we can go.

To decide from that position that they'd roll right up and start fightin' because "that's what we would do because we're a shower of dicks" is, at best, problematic.

And if they were like that?

And you didn't make adequate preparations?

We, whether it's in the ME universe or the real world, must always be prepared for whatever potential threats that may exist anywhere.

[LilyasAvalon]

How could you NOT support them? I mean, REAL LEATHER seats, c'mon.

[Arppis]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

How could you NOT support them? I mean, REAL LEATHER seats, c'mon.

Well I guess people are animal-activists like that.

I bet the leather is taken from backs of hundreds of kittens.

Modifié par Arppis, 23 février 2012 - 05:09 .

[Haventh]

Dasher1010 wrote...

Cerberus is an organization filled with anti-alien extremiests. The fact that they refer to themselves as "pro-human" instead of anti-alien and specifically target the Quarians who are intentionally modeled to be Jews in space rams home that they're futuristic Neo-****s. They're now working for the reapers in an attempt to get them to destroy everyone else besides humans. What is seriously the reason why people on here are still Cerberus fanboys?

Well, one , this is a game, and two, this is a roleplaying game and three, morals and rationalization is a matter of perspective.

/end thread

Modifié par Haventh, 23 février 2012 - 05:13 .

[LilyasAvalon]

Arppis wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

How could you NOT support them? I mean, REAL LEATHER seats, c'mon.

Well I guess people are animal-activists like that.

I bet the leather is taken from backs of hundreds of kittens.

Why, Arppis?