619 réponses à ce sujet

[DJBare]

Where are the badasses willing to sacrifice their family and friends to cerburus in order to save the galaxy?

I attempt to steer clear of these moral debates, but the one thing that always seems outstanding is the lack of thought and empathy from the so called badasses.

[Hunter of Legends]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Denying the Reapers a resource to the war isn't "having an effect"?

-You mean that the techno gods needed human paste as engine grease to start the latest installment in the 37million year and running culling of the cattle? Year. That works storywise too.

They had a base of operations that would have been unaccessable if not for what shepard and co did in ME2.

[Farbautisonn]

Ziggeh wrote...
Same thing, that was sort of the point, no?

-Must have played a diffrent game than you. In my game im preparing for an epic battle against the technogods, gathering allies, finding facts, getting tech, retrieving intel, in a race against time.

[Farbautisonn]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

They had a base of operations that would have been unaccessable if not for what shepard and co did in ME2.

-Which was vital how, in bringing back the reapers? 

[Hunter of Legends]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

They had a base of operations that would have been unaccessable if not for what shepard and co did in ME2.

-Which was vital how, in bringing back the reapers? 

It helped them in ANY sort of capacity. Weapons, research, and tactically.

It was a resource shep denied them.

[Farbautisonn]

DJBare wrote...

Where are the badasses willing to sacrifice their family and friends to cerburus in order to save the galaxy?

I attempt to steer clear of these moral debates, but the one thing that always seems outstanding is the lack of thought and empathy from the so called badasses.

-We wont sacrifice our own. But we will happily sacrifice yours and millions of you if that means we survive as a species. You can put us on trial later. If we arent elected dictators and are rendered impervious to prosecution by popularity for saving the galaxy. Happy now? 

[Farbautisonn]

Hunter of Legends wrote...
It helped them in ANY sort of capacity. Weapons, research, and tactically.

It was a resource shep denied them.

-Really ? I didnt get that memo... or codex. And I didnt know that the Reapers needed "weapons, research and tactical viablity". What changed since the battle of the citadel where one reaper and a pissant fleet of geth destrotyed several fleets and the greatest dreadnaught of the galaxy, like it wasnt even there? 

[Hunter of Legends]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...
It helped them in ANY sort of capacity. Weapons, research, and tactically.

It was a resource shep denied them.

-Really ? I didnt get that memo... or codex. And I didnt know that the Reapers needed "weapons, research and tactical viablity". What changed since the battle of the citadel where one reaper and a pissant fleet of geth destrotyed several fleets and the greatest dreadnaught of the galaxy, like it wasnt even there? 

It's not a problem for the reapers.

It's a problem for us. WE have to fight the collectors and their hidden base; now it's gone.

Look at this from OUR perspective not the reapers.

[Ziggeh]

Farbautisonn wrote...

-Must have played a diffrent game than you. In my game im preparing for an epic battle against the technogods, gathering allies, finding facts, getting tech, retrieving intel, in a race against time.

Were they perhaps controlling a species of genetically altered drones in order gather resources to reproduce?

[DJBare]

Farbautisonn wrote...
-We wont sacrifice our own. But we will happily sacrifice yours and millions of you if that means we survive as a species. You can put us on trial later. If we arent elected dictators and are rendered impervious to prosecution by popularity for saving the galaxy. Happy now? 

No, you don't have a choice, TIM has called for your mother/father/son/daughter/girlfriend to be sacrificed for the cause, TIM has no qualms about who he uses, he only keeps them if they are a valuable asset.

[Farbautisonn]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

It's not a problem for the reapers.

It's a problem for us. WE have to fight the collectors and their hidden base; now it's gone.

Look at this from OUR perspective not the reapers.

-Please: The collectors are small potatoes compared to the reapers. Infact they arent even potatos. They a microscopic particles compared to the reaper threat. The Citadel doesnt seem to be too bothered by the dissaperence of colonies. The Alliance hasnt got a leg to stand on. Cerberus does.

I am looking at it from our perspective. From Shepards perspective. Ive played ©rpgs and pen and papers for more than 24 years. I dont metagame.

Shepards primal enemy is the reapers. The collectors mean **** all in that sense. He wouldnt waste a single second on them if they were "batarian slavers v 2.0". He'd let the alliance deal with that. He has bigger fish to fry.

But he has intel they have something to do with the reapers. Thats the whole premise of the plot. He follows a lead that leads him into the collector base, getting tech or blowing up the base. He is buying time, saving lives, getting intel.

[Farbautisonn]

Ziggeh wrote...
Were they perhaps controlling a species of genetically altered drones in order gather resources to reproduce?

-Why not just wait for the main culling as per usual? Seems kind of inefffective and silly to draw attention to yourself, by having your inept servants muck about,  when you are allready on the way. When you are there you have all the time in the world. You have 37 million years of experience doing this. Why bother with the hired help? 

[Farbautisonn]

DJBare wrote...
No, you don't have a choice, TIM has called for your mother/father/son/daughter/girlfriend to be sacrificed for the cause, TIM has no qualms about who he uses, he only keeps them if they are a valuable asset.

-I do have a choise. Because I am cerberus. You are not. Like it or not, you are the sheep. And if I have to choose between one of mine and one of yours, Ill choose yours every day and twice on sundays. If I wasnt a valuable asset to  cerberus I wouldnt be there in the first place doing his bidding. Now would I ?

Anything else I can help you undestand?

[Goneaviking]

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

[quote]Goneaviking wrote...
As for the baby reaper. It looked to me like it was being grown as much as being assembled. If that's true then once the process was kicked off then it would keep growing itself according to it's own genetic template. Provided the human goo kept coming the fun stuff could have just grown at their own pace.[/quote]

Thats' not how it works. The core is inserted into a reaper shell (the starship).
It isn't grown. It is built.
So you're sying their building a full-grown reaper with reaper weapons, reaper shields , reaper sensors and reaper engines...without reaper tech?

[/quote]

Because... you say so? I just watched the scene with the baby reaper again, I kept an eye out for tech apparently used to manufacture the reaper or install hardware into it and aside from those tubes injecting people goo into the reaper it's surprisingly lacking. You'd expect to see something in the big chamber they're using to build it.

The truth is we know very little about how they create reapers. We don't know if they're assembled or if they're grown. We don't know if the people goo they use is what they construct it out of, or if it's some sort of nutrient they use to give it life.

If it's grown, certainly a possibility, then the embryo will be preprogrammed to develop all of those features just by absorbing the appropriate nutrients.

www.youtube.com/watch



[quote][quote][quote]
Because we have a thousand years time before the reaper come?

[/quote]

Any weapon we don't understand is as much a liability as a benefit. The months available for research wouldn't be enough to fully reverse engineer the technology let alone understand it, duplicate it and train fleets in it's use and maintenance. Even if they managed to get a functional cannon, or shield, or ftl drive, or whatever onto their ships and gave them a big red button to turn them on, they wouldn't be able to repair it when inevitably something went wrong.[/quote]

And you know this..how? How do you know we wouldn't be abel to repair it? How do you know we can't get anything usefull? [/quote]

Because it's completely alien technology. If you think we can figure out how it all works and actually understand it, let alone mass producing appropriate technological payoffs and training our personnel to use and maintain it in a handful of years or months then you're sniffing too much glue.

We may absolutely gain something useful from the study, but it'll be a long time before we master the new technology enough to make it dependable or to figure out how to calibrate it successfully for different circumstances. Without that kind of time and research it's just a magic gun.


[quote][quote]
Which is ignoring that the resources available to the Citadel races aren't exactly paltry. They're the product of thousands of years of development, and the very existence of the first Normandy is proof of their ability to innovate and adapt their technology in response to each others ideas.[/quote]

And all of that will fail epicly in a clash against the reapers. Sovereing alone, stationary and in a tacticly disadvantageous position took on TWO fleets and was kickin ass.
The Normandy is so insignificant, it's laughable.[/quote]

Sovereign was not alone. It was accompanied by a fleet of geth and it attacked with the advantage of surprise and the Citadel fleet didn't have time to co-ordinate particularly since the control room had already been taken by Sovereign's geth allies. By the time it becomes stationary the Citadel's arms have closed and shielded it from further attack until Shepard opens it.

Normandy can't take out a reaper, no one said it could, but Normandy isn't a fleet in it's own. A reapers shields are impressive, but that doesn't mean they can't be overwhelmed with enough concentrated fire in a co-ordinated attack. You wouldn't expect to see battle damage on a shielded craft until the shields were brought down so unless we had the capacity to monitor Sovereign's shields the fighting wouldn't have any noticeable impact on it until it was already wounded.

[quote][quote]
Further, every war depends as much on logistics and infrastructure as much as on weapons. If not moreso. The ability to get the right resources to the right spot, at the right time and in the right numbers to accomplish their objectives. [/quote]

Which makes the reapers even MORE dangerous, since they don't have our logistical weakness. And are also faster and moe manouverable, and strategicly more mobile. They don't have fixed assets to defend either.
That alone is such a MASSIVE advantage, then tehy would wipe us out even if their fleets were equal to ours in strength.[/quote]

The reapers' strength is unproven, thus far they've depended on sneak attacks against unknowing targets and isolating systems to prevent co-operation. That they apparently don't have the same weaknesses as us doesn't mean they can automatically prey upon them, indeed the Protheans have already taken away their greatest advantages.


[quote][quote]
Strategy counts, and the current races know their neighbourhoods better than the reapers do given that they generally spend 50 000 years hibernating, or watching Baywatch reruns or whatever out in dark space. If there are spatial phenomenon or dangerous regions that can be exploited then the organics will be able to capitilise on them much more readily than the reapers.[/quote]

37 million year old super-strship with super-intellects, who know the galaxy like the plam of their hand will be easily tricked by us?
Are you forgetting they were working with the Shadow Broker?[/quote]

They've been asleep for tens of thousands of years, in that time galaxy has shifted in ways they won't immediately notice but in ways that the locals will know from living with it constantly. Intelligence briefings and star charts don't automatically beat out local knowledge.


[quote]
As long as their supply lines and communications aren't cut, and effective co-ordination can be achieved the situation for fleshy things (and the geth) isn't as impossible as it's made out to be, even without the booty from the Collector Base.
[/quote]

Yeah right. You forgetting the indoctrination? Epic backstabing, betrail and inteligence leaks follows.
And that instant-comunication is stanrard for all reapers?[/quote]

All of which is to be expected, none of which is insurmountable. I'm not going to throw in the towel and assume that the only way to win the game is an act of God, which seems to be the position you're taking.

[quote]
I mean seriously..... Bio has set up the reapers with so many epic advantages that even if you put a retard in charge of the reaper invasion, tehy would win easily.
[/quote]

We've already taken away their biggest advantages, and there are plenty of examples of apparently inferior forces beating more advanced and dominant forces by playing to their strengths and fighting on their own terms.

[Farbautisonn]

Goneaviking wrote...
We've already taken away their biggest advantages, and there are plenty of examples of apparently inferior forces beating more advanced and dominant forces by playing to their strengths and fighting on their own terms.

-37 million years of empirical experience is a hard empirical stone to get out of that shoe.

EDIT:

With that history I dont think our odds would be very great with a bookie.

Modifié par Farbautisonn, 23 février 2012 - 09:39 .

[Ziggeh]

Farbautisonn wrote...

-Why not just wait for the main culling as per usual? Seems kind of inefffective and silly to draw attention to yourself, by having your inept servants muck about,  when you are allready on the way. When you are there you have all the time in the world. You have 37 million years of experience doing this. Why bother with the hired help?

Not a clue. But raising questions isn't a bad idea at that point.

[Arppis]

Farbautisonn wrote...

DJBare wrote...
No, you don't have a choice, TIM has called for your mother/father/son/daughter/girlfriend to be sacrificed for the cause, TIM has no qualms about who he uses, he only keeps them if they are a valuable asset.

-I do have a choise. Because I am cerberus. You are not. Like it or not, you are the sheep. And if I have to choose between one of mine and one of yours, Ill choose yours every day and twice on sundays. If I wasnt a valuable asset to  cerberus I wouldnt be there in the first place doing his bidding. Now would I ?

Anything else I can help you undestand?

Keep telling that to yourself darling. Once you outlive your usefullness, Cerberus will drop you like a bad habbit.

That's how they operate.

[Farbautisonn]

Ziggeh wrote...
Not a clue. But raising questions isn't a bad idea at that point.

-Well. Im hoping ME3 can provide some answers to all of the questions they have thrown up in the air. And I hope those answers make sense and arent just relegated to "Cloning, cryogenic freezing, indoctrination and "magic". Because that would be really crap storytelling.

[Farbautisonn]

Arppis wrote...

Keep telling that to yourself darling. Once you outlive your usefullness, Cerberus will drop you like a bad habbit.

That's how they operate.

-And because I work for Cerberus I know that for full well. Just as a black ops operative knows for full well that the second he is out in the open he is on his own. I either stay usefull or I die. You dont seem to grasp the fact that I allready know that.

[IBPROFEN]

BlueDemonX wrote...

Neither extreme is good. Although it´s good to have fanatics in wars. It helps a lot (...Dune anyone?).

 
 (dune) It take up atleast 5 whole pages to even get started about it.

[Massefeckt]

Dasher1010 wrote...

Cerberus is an organization filled with anti-alien extremiests. The fact that they refer to themselves as "pro-human" instead of anti-alien and specifically target the Quarians who are intentionally modeled to be Jews in space rams home that they're futuristic Neo-****s. They're now working for the reapers in an attempt to get them to destroy everyone else besides humans. What is seriously the reason why people on here are still Cerberus fanboys?

Because it's a game and you are playing a character. Ask any actor it's always more fun to play the bad/dangerous character than the goody two shoes.

[Hunter of Legends]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

It's not a problem for the reapers.

It's a problem for us. WE have to fight the collectors and their hidden base; now it's gone.

Look at this from OUR perspective not the reapers.

-Please: The collectors are small potatoes compared to the reapers. Infact they arent even potatos. They a microscopic particles compared to the reaper threat. The Citadel doesnt seem to be too bothered by the dissaperence of colonies. The Alliance hasnt got a leg to stand on. Cerberus does.

I am looking at it from our perspective. From Shepards perspective. Ive played ©rpgs and pen and papers for more than 24 years. I dont metagame.

Shepards primal enemy is the reapers. The collectors mean **** all in that sense. He wouldnt waste a single second on them if they were "batarian slavers v 2.0". He'd let the alliance deal with that. He has bigger fish to fry.

But he has intel they have something to do with the reapers. Thats the whole premise of the plot. He follows a lead that leads him into the collector base, getting tech or blowing up the base. He is buying time, saving lives, getting intel.

And denying the reapers a resource.

So what was your whole point exactly?

[Farbautisonn]

Hunter of Legends wrote...
And denying the reapers a resource.

So what was your whole point exactly?

-That the reapers dont need the protheans/collectors as a resource but keep them as lab rats? 

Or perhaps youd like to go back to "the reapers need human solvant to grease their engines"? 

Modifié par Farbautisonn, 23 février 2012 - 11:39 .

[Hunter of Legends]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...
And denying the reapers a resource.

So what was your whole point exactly?

-That the reapers dont need the protheans as a resource but keep them as lab rats more or less like they keep the repurposed prothans? 

Or perhaps youd like to go back to "the reapers need human solvant to grease their engines"? 

The collectors are a resource that surely would have been used in the war...

why is this so hard to udnerstand?

[Farbautisonn]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

The collectors are a resource that surely would have been used in the war...

why is this so hard to udnerstand?

-Because I find it hard to belive that a race of sentient techno gods that has culled the galaxy for 37 million years would need a handfull of repurposed protheans for anything but labrats? 

Because a fleet of Reapers would beable to do what the collectors have done (scooping up human colonies) in a matter of days rather than over a period of months or even years? 

You seem unable to grasp the fact that you do not send folded paper planes with labrats into war if your standard unit is a high end stealth fighterbomber with highly trained and motivated pilots. Warfare doesnt work like that. The attack on earth is massive. The combined force of 37 million years worth of reapers are bearing down on us. The reaper fleet must be an armada that superceeds the combined force, botht in power and number, of all combined galactic fleets. Thats what Shepard is up against. And you try to tell me that the repurposed insects of the last culling, a collection of mindless husks are a central goal, a worthy military target? 

Sorry. Ive studied history and warfare too long to be taken in by that.