wildannie wrote...
A rational moral person...
-What does this fish look like?
How Can a Rational Moral Person Still Support Cerberus?
Débuté par
Dasher1010
, févr. 22 2012 04:43
#26
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:19
Farbautisonn
-
- Members
- 3 083 messages
-What does this fish look like?
Retour en haut
#27
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:20
Xayoz
-
- Members
- 122 messages
This.Rakia Time wrote...
being rational or moral is not something i've been accused of, so i support Cerberus
#28
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:21
AlexXIV
-
- Members
- 10 670 messages
We are not supporting Cerberus in ME3. In ME2 were merely accepted their help to stop the Collectors, which was ... whatever.
Anyway, rationale and morale rarely go hand in hand. You are either mostly this or mostly that. But not mostly both.
Anyway, rationale and morale rarely go hand in hand. You are either mostly this or mostly that. But not mostly both.
#29
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:21
Ziggeh
-
- Members
- 4 360 messages
Wait, I thought your point was that they were villains?Dasher1010 wrote...
Keep in mind that these people also used one of their own researchers in a horrific experiement agasint his will to help enslave the Geth. Whining about how Cerberus are now the villains is kind of... blind. It's like the people who are total fans of Rorschach from Watchmen.
And I'm totally a fan of Rorschach, because he's a spectacular deconstruction of super hero morality.
I'm confused. Also hungry.
#30
Guest_Cthulhu42_*
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:21
Guest_Cthulhu42_*
Guest_Cthulhu42_*
-
- Guests
Actually, Cerberus would be more analogous to Ozymandias. What with the whole willingness to sacrifice people for what they perceive to be the greater good thing.Dasher1010 wrote...
Ziggeh wrote...
Unless the enemies plan is for you to base all of your technology upon theirs because they are able to manipluate it in ways you may not understand in which case such research could become actively detrimental.Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...
To save the base to study and research it to finally find the weaknesses of the reapers and make better weapons ... Rational
Keep in mind that these people also used one of their own researchers in a horrific experiement agasint his will to help enslave the Geth. Whining about how Cerberus are now the villains is kind of... blind. It's like the people who are total fans of Rorschach from Watchmen.
#31
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:22
Ziggeh
-
- Members
- 4 360 messages
Some of them were overly rational.Windninja47 wrote...
There were many rational people who fought for Hitler.
#32
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:23
Kaiser Arian XVII
-
- Members
- 17 283 messages
The greater good is to save humanity from certain annihilation (in this situation). Cerberus experiments has had lots of achievements: Shepard's Life, Normandy & EDI, some technologies, weapons, armors and shields.
Well suddenly Bioware made Cerberus the second villain of ME3. T.I.M goal was to destroy the reapers and enhance the place of humanity in the galaxy, but his sworn enemy became his friend.
Bioware decision was irrational and harmed the Story and Role Playing aspect of the Trilogy.
Well suddenly Bioware made Cerberus the second villain of ME3. T.I.M goal was to destroy the reapers and enhance the place of humanity in the galaxy, but his sworn enemy became his friend.
Bioware decision was irrational and harmed the Story and Role Playing aspect of the Trilogy.
#33
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:24
AlexXIV
-
- Members
- 10 670 messages
Sorry but Cerberus in ME1 and ME3 makes more sense to me than Cerberus in ME2. That (Cerberus in ME2) was the mistake.Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...
The greater good is to save humanity from certain annihilation (in this situation). Cerberus experiments has had lots of achievements: Shepard's Life, Normandy & EDI, some technologies, weapons, armors and shields.
Well suddenly Bioware made Cerberus the second villain of ME3. T.I.M goal was to destroy the reapers and enhance the place of humanity in the galaxy, but his sworn enemy became his friend.
Bioware decision was irrational and harmed the Story and Role Playing aspect of the Trilogy.
#34
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:25
TheBlackBaron
-
- Members
- 7 724 messages
"If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons."
Protip: He was talking about the Soviet Union and Joe Stalin. At least as far as amoral atrocities go, they're on par with Cerberus, and the Reapers aren't just interested in killing Jews and Slavs.
Protip: He was talking about the Soviet Union and Joe Stalin. At least as far as amoral atrocities go, they're on par with Cerberus, and the Reapers aren't just interested in killing Jews and Slavs.
#35
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:26
Xayoz
-
- Members
- 122 messages
What about Cerberus in ME1?AlexXIV wrote...
Sorry but Cerberus in ME1 and ME3 makes more sense to me than Cerberus in ME2.
#36
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:27
Ziggeh
-
- Members
- 4 360 messages
Having a character go Judas is always a sign of poor storytelling.Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...
Bioware decision was irrational and harmed the Story and Role Playing aspect of the Trilogy.
#37
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:30
Farbautisonn
-
- Members
- 3 083 messages
Crash course in realpolitik since the greeks:
"They may be rat bastards, but they are our rat bastards".
"They may be rat bastards, but they are our rat bastards".
#38
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:30
Black_Vanguard
-
- Members
- 119 messages
When playing as a Shepard that supports Cerberus or at least is more pro-human/anti-alien leaning Sheapard, I try to take into account how some humans may look at other species in the ME universe. An example would be human attitudes toward Turians after the first contact war. I could be wrong but I recall their still being resentment after the first contact war.
Another thing I consider is basically the fact you are talking about different species altogether. Were not talking about Cerberus persecuting somone based on their skin color. Its more to do with species then anything else. The thing I try to consider would be how attitues would be in real life if humans did encounter alien life on another planet or if it discovered us. Their would be some fear/anxiety/ and animosity. It's a natural attitude/reaction to such a thing.
I'm sure if you look at the other alien species(or if their was more in deph background on the political factions in some of them) you would find similar groups that favor their own species over humans(Just an example) Cerberus is of course over the line when it comes to the experiments for my Renegade shepards that tend to have pro-human views. At least that is how I have played my Shepards when it comes to Cerberus.
On top of that I think its one thing to support Cerberus in ME2 then it is to support them in ME3. In ME2 you have the Illusive Man wanting to stop the reapers and now in ME3 it would seem he has different motives it would seem that hint at him possibly being indoctrinated. If he is with the reapers, this would make being pro cerberus in ME2 irrelevent. He wants to work with the reapers which would work toward the goal of harvesting all organic life. Completely different ball game in my opinion then.
It's a matter of perspective I suppose. That and everyone is going to have different views and morals when it comes to Cerberus.
Another thing I consider is basically the fact you are talking about different species altogether. Were not talking about Cerberus persecuting somone based on their skin color. Its more to do with species then anything else. The thing I try to consider would be how attitues would be in real life if humans did encounter alien life on another planet or if it discovered us. Their would be some fear/anxiety/ and animosity. It's a natural attitude/reaction to such a thing.
I'm sure if you look at the other alien species(or if their was more in deph background on the political factions in some of them) you would find similar groups that favor their own species over humans(Just an example) Cerberus is of course over the line when it comes to the experiments for my Renegade shepards that tend to have pro-human views. At least that is how I have played my Shepards when it comes to Cerberus.
On top of that I think its one thing to support Cerberus in ME2 then it is to support them in ME3. In ME2 you have the Illusive Man wanting to stop the reapers and now in ME3 it would seem he has different motives it would seem that hint at him possibly being indoctrinated. If he is with the reapers, this would make being pro cerberus in ME2 irrelevent. He wants to work with the reapers which would work toward the goal of harvesting all organic life. Completely different ball game in my opinion then.
It's a matter of perspective I suppose. That and everyone is going to have different views and morals when it comes to Cerberus.
Modifié par Black_Vanguard, 22 février 2012 - 05:37 .
#39
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:31
Blarty
-
- Members
- 588 messages
You cannot support Cerberus at this point (ME3), however until what-we-know-happens-with-TIM-and-collector-base occurs, there are certain sections of humanity that would look to the First Contact War, Shanxi (sp?) and the general, pre-ME3, indifference of the Citadel Council to wards humanity as a reason to understand the public face of Cerberus. Unfortunately, this kind of support is mostly borne out of fear or anxiety.... and personally I don't even think most of Cerberus operatives realise what TIM is up to until it's too late, as evidenced by Miranda's resignation in ME2
#40
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:32
Costin_Razvan
-
- Members
- 7 010 messages
The OP has never heard of the term utilitarian.
Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 22 février 2012 - 05:32 .
#41
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:33
sorentoft
-
- Members
- 1 280 messages
In this universe Cerberus is obviously kind of stupid. In real life I would probably support their anti-alien agenda as it is the only sensible and moral thing to do.
#42
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:34
MisterJB
-
- Members
- 15 583 messages
What?Dasher1010 wrote...
specifically target the Quarians who are intentionally modeled to be Jews in space rams home that they're futuristic Neo-****s.
First, the volus are clearly the jews of the ME universe. The quarians are gypsies.
Second, Cerberus did not specifically target the quarians. Two humans took a child from her father and the quarians gave them refuge. Since that child was an important part of Cerberus' experiments to help humanity, they went to get her back, killing anyone who stood in their way. It did not matter if they were quarians, turians, asari or even humans.
#43
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:46
Dasher1010
-
- Members
- 3 655 messages
MisterJB wrote...
What?Dasher1010 wrote...
specifically target the Quarians who are intentionally modeled to be Jews in space rams home that they're futuristic Neo-****s.
First, the volus are clearly the jews of the ME universe. The quarians are gypsies.
Second, Cerberus did not specifically target the quarians. Two humans took a child from her father and the quarians gave them refuge. Since that child was an important part of Cerberus' experiments to help humanity, they went to get her back, killing anyone who stood in their way. It did not matter if they were quarians, turians, asari or even humans.
Cerberus ins't really all that interested in helping humanity. They put a human scientist into a machine agaisnt his will and druged and killed human children. They aren't so much interested in helping humans as much as hurting aliens.
#44
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:52
eye basher
-
- Members
- 1 822 messages
Sometimes one has to be evil in order to do good you may be called a monster now but eventually you will be vindicated.
#45
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:53
Ziggeh
-
- Members
- 4 360 messages
Is it? Surely that's heavily dependant. If we're talking about ravenous xenomorphs who to eat need human brains to survive, you know, fair enough, can't argue with the anti alien sentiment, but what if they're just like....people? From space?sorentoft wrote...
In real life I would probably support their anti-alien agenda as it is the only sensible and moral thing to do.
#46
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:55
Ziggeh
-
- Members
- 4 360 messages
Literally no one is disputing that they're kind of dickish. They're just pointing out that sometimes you don't get to choose your allies.Dasher1010 wrote...
Cerberus ins't really all that interested in helping humanity. They put a human scientist into a machine agaisnt his will and druged and killed human children. They aren't so much interested in helping humans as much as hurting aliens.
#47
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:56
eye basher
-
- Members
- 1 822 messages
Ziggeh wrote...
Is it? Surely that's heavily dependant. If we're talking about ravenous xenomorphs who to eat need human brains to survive, you know, fair enough, can't argue with the anti alien sentiment, but what if they're just like....people? From space?sorentoft wrote...
In real life I would probably support their anti-alien agenda as it is the only sensible and moral thing to do.
There are just people on earth and some will kill you without thinking it twice that's just the way it is.
#48
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:57
Black_Vanguard
-
- Members
- 119 messages
Ziggeh wrote...
Is it? Surely that's heavily dependant. If we're talking about ravenous xenomorphs who to eat need human brains to survive, you know, fair enough, can't argue with the anti alien sentiment, but what if they're just like....people? From space?sorentoft wrote...
In real life I would probably support their anti-alien agenda as it is the only sensible and moral thing to do.
Well if you consider the possibility of what most peoples reactions would be to the discovery of another intelligent life form from space. It would be a natural reaction to such a thing. Not the right thing in your mind but it is a predictable reaction.
#49
Posté 22 février 2012 - 05:57
LCD Dave N7
-
- Members
- 51 messages
MisterJB wrote...
What?Dasher1010 wrote...
specifically target the Quarians who are intentionally modeled to be Jews in space rams home that they're futuristic Neo-****s.
First, the volus are clearly the jews of the ME universe. The quarians are gypsies.
Second, Cerberus did not specifically target the quarians. Two humans took a child from her father and the quarians gave them refuge. Since that child was an important part of Cerberus' experiments to help humanity, they went to get her back, killing anyone who stood in their way. It did not matter if they were quarians, turians, asari or even humans.
Thankfully I've already read the book, but NO SPOILERS. Let's think about what that might mean...
If you could save the life of a family member by pressing a button and a person you've never met would die, would you do it? Cerberus would. That's all they are for me.
