619 réponses à ce sujet

[TheStoner]

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

In b4 nationalism is racism nonsense.

Also democracy sucks. Aristocracy (in Platonic-Aristotelian terms) is the best form of government.

Plato's society will never work in our current reality.

Yes, because of that I prefer Hegel's semi-constitutional Monarchy and Schopenhauer's Aristocratic Monarchy added with socialist economy methods.

The base of democracy is nonsense. The idiots who have the same interests and don't know a crap about politics, economy and education, vote for their popular candidate to change the law for their comfort :populism ... it's mindless legislation.

Minarchy: because the idea of people like you getting too much power sounds horrible.

[DarkDragon777]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

In b4 nationalism is racism nonsense.

Also democracy sucks. Aristocracy (in Platonic-Aristotelian terms) is the best form of government.

Plato's society will never work in our current reality.

Yes, because of that I prefer Hegel's semi-constitutional Monarchy and Schopenhauer's Aristocratic Monarchy added with socialist economy methods.

The base of democracy is nonsense. The idiots who have the same interests and don't know a crap about politics, economy and education, vote for their popular candidate to change the law for their comfort :populism ... it's mindless legislation.

I don't disagree but this is neither the forum nor the correct community to discuss these issues.

Democracy would work if the masses were more educated on the world but alas...

No, it would still fail because the educated people would take pride in their "enlightenment" and be bound  by human nature to argue with other people and take up destructive tendencies.

[gearseffect]

Ummm what is being debated here? Democracy vs. what ever? or something?

Honestly If I give my statement in regards to American Democracy it will not look very good on "We the People, By The People, For the People" ""the land of Liberty needs a regime change our forefathers are rolling over in their graves"

My statements can only lead to the teachings of Blackie Lawless and Mega Dave Mustaine.

Cerberus and TIM please stay on tash

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

TheStoner wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

In b4 nationalism is racism nonsense.

Also democracy sucks. Aristocracy (in Platonic-Aristotelian terms) is the best form of government.

Plato's society will never work in our current reality.

Yes, because of that I prefer Hegel's semi-constitutional Monarchy and Schopenhauer's Aristocratic Monarchy added with socialist economy methods.

The base of democracy is nonsense. The idiots who have the same interests and don't know a crap about politics, economy and education, vote for their popular candidate to change the law for their comfort :populism ... it's mindless legislation.

Minarchy: because the idea of people like you getting too much power sounds horrible.

All I praise is 19th century Germany (with more caring for the people, socialist policies)

An Empire with socialist policies is an empire for the Eternity.

Still an advisory senate is needed for the needs and best of Empire.

[Clover Rider]

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

In b4 nationalism is racism nonsense.

Also democracy sucks. Aristocracy (in Platonic-Aristotelian terms) is the best form of government.

Plato's society will never work in our current reality.

Yes, because of that I prefer Hegel's semi-constitutional Monarchy and Schopenhauer's Aristocratic Monarchy added with socialist economy methods.

The base of democracy is nonsense. The idiots who have the same interests and don't know a crap about politics, economy and education, vote for their popular candidate to change the law for their comfort :populism ... it's mindless legislation.

Some Jedi you are.

[TheStoner]

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

TheStoner wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

In b4 nationalism is racism nonsense.

Also democracy sucks. Aristocracy (in Platonic-Aristotelian terms) is the best form of government.

Plato's society will never work in our current reality.

Yes, because of that I prefer Hegel's semi-constitutional Monarchy and Schopenhauer's Aristocratic Monarchy added with socialist economy methods.

The base of democracy is nonsense. The idiots who have the same interests and don't know a crap about politics, economy and education, vote for their popular candidate to change the law for their comfort :populism ... it's mindless legislation.

Minarchy: because the idea of people like you getting too much power sounds horrible.

All I praise is 19th century Germany (with more caring for the people, socialist policies)

An Empire with socialist policies is an empire for the Eternity.

Still an advisory senate is needed for the needs and best of Empire.

Sounds great. As long as I can opt out without getting shot in the face.

[royard]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Like I said, self-serving with no redeeming values. No one is looking out for the galaxy as a whole.

It's all black and no white.

Shepard and co is.

The council is.

The council certainly isn't.  Do you remember what they did after the Morning War?  They didn't give any aid to quarians whatsoever, even though majority of them was innocent.  They also didn't do anything about the geth, either through peace or force. 

They are really just trying to preserve their own power. 

[Hunter of Legends]

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

TheStoner wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

In b4 nationalism is racism nonsense.

Also democracy sucks. Aristocracy (in Platonic-Aristotelian terms) is the best form of government.

Plato's society will never work in our current reality.

Yes, because of that I prefer Hegel's semi-constitutional Monarchy and Schopenhauer's Aristocratic Monarchy added with socialist economy methods.

The base of democracy is nonsense. The idiots who have the same interests and don't know a crap about politics, economy and education, vote for their popular candidate to change the law for their comfort :populism ... it's mindless legislation.

Minarchy: because the idea of people like you getting too much power sounds horrible.

All I praise is 19th century Germany (with more caring for the people, socialist policies)

An Empire with socialist policies is an empire for the Eternity.

Still an advisory senate is needed for the needs and best of Empire.

Hopefully without that nasty WWI nonsense.

[Hunter of Legends]

royard wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Like I said, self-serving with no redeeming values. No one is looking out for the galaxy as a whole.

It's all black and no white.

Shepard and co is.

The council is.

The council certainly isn't.  Do you remember what they did after the Morning War?  They didn't give any aid to quarians whatsoever, even though majority of them was innocent.  They also didn't do anything about the geth, either through peace or force. 

They are really just trying to preserve their own power. 

They are, but through that they have to care for their protectorate.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Some Geth wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

In b4 nationalism is racism nonsense.

Also democracy sucks. Aristocracy (in Platonic-Aristotelian terms) is the best form of government.

Plato's society will never work in our current reality.

Yes, because of that I prefer Hegel's semi-constitutional Monarchy and Schopenhauer's Aristocratic Monarchy added with socialist economy methods.

The base of democracy is nonsense. The idiots who have the same interests and don't know a crap about politics, economy and education, vote for their popular candidate to change the law for their comfort :populism ... it's mindless legislation.

Some Jedi you are.

Some Geth you are.

I'm founding the most pragmatic and also socialistic form of government, the true empire. It is historically, philosophically and economically enriched. ... much better than ****** Liberal Democracy.

[Hunter of Legends]

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

In b4 nationalism is racism nonsense.

Also democracy sucks. Aristocracy (in Platonic-Aristotelian terms) is the best form of government.

Plato's society will never work in our current reality.

Yes, because of that I prefer Hegel's semi-constitutional Monarchy and Schopenhauer's Aristocratic Monarchy added with socialist economy methods.

The base of democracy is nonsense. The idiots who have the same interests and don't know a crap about politics, economy and education, vote for their popular candidate to change the law for their comfort :populism ... it's mindless legislation.

Some Jedi you are.

Some Geth you are.

I'm founding the most pragmatic and also socialistic form of government, the true empire. It is historically, philosophically and economically enriched. ... much better than ****** Liberal Democracy.

I would prefer a meritocracy.

[Averagetoaster1]

I don't see the problem here, Humans are not equal to Aliens. Not of the same mothers and fathers, blood or evolutionary tree. Cerberus feels humans are above all, this is no different then the Council who view humans as a younger naive race, Krogans who see Humans as weak or Hannar who view them on a lesser level. The entire universe is xenophobic. You can relate Cerberus to any point in human history but it is still HUMAN history, not alien history. We all know by the end of Mass Effect 3 the reapers will be gone, vanquished by a Human. Even if the human needs alien help, it only shows the resourcefulness of humans to get the job done.

[MutoidMan]

Whatever their motivation, without Cerberus Shepard simply wasn't. I give them props for having the vision, will, and tenacity to put up the massive resources and supreme effort that were required to bring him back to life and put him back in the saddle, thus making the salvation of the galaxy possible.

[Gabey5]

MutoidMan wrote...

Whatever their motivation, without Cerberus Shepard simply wasn't. I give them props for having the vision, will, and tenacity to put up the massive resources and supreme effort that were required to bring him back to life and put him back in the saddle, thus making the salvation of the galaxy possible.

exactly, no one else would have or could have brought shepard back, all teh good you did is attricbuted to them. I think people should keep that in mind when we next see cerberus. I can't see them turning against shepard without good reason as he is the best hope for humanity right now, it would not make sense for them to kill him after they hbrought him back.

[emblemsage]

I make no claims to complete understanding here, but my thoughts on Cerberus are this.
Goals:  Advancing the power of humanity as much as possible through any means.  Understandable end, but possibly dangerous means.

Actions:  Several experiments of varying success, usually performed on humans, with or without their knowledge.  While some have obvious value, especially programs like Lazarus, others like the various cells you encounter in ME 1  and the Teltin facility are extremely questionable.  Overlords end goal was good, but again, the methods left a sour taste in my mouth.  But as has been shown by the number of questionable experiments on human people and colonies, there's really only two options there. Either TIM has knowledge of, and approves of, these experiments. Or they really are rogue cells and TIM does not have as much control over Cerberus as he's trying to show.

TIM:  Claims to be working for the future of all humanity, as represented by Cerberus.  I believe he is genuine in that goal.  My problems lie with the fact that the "any means necessary" tend to fall in the less than moral territory, the only acknowledgement he makes of possible diplomacy is right after Freedom's Progress if you gave Veetor to Tali, and then he dismisses it as almost impossible at this point because no one trusts Cerberus anyway.

The collector base:  Rational arguments can be made for saving the base to use any data it has for advantage against the Reapers or anyone else, and the way Shepard talks to TIM about destroying it can make it seem more like sticking it to Cerberus for using him than any moral grounds.  You have to weigh the possibility of useful data against the proven danger reaper tech has for anyone attempting to study it, shown by the damaged reaper at Mnemosyne, and for me the danger was greater.

Final thoughts:  Cerberus has understandable goals, willing members, a charismatic leader, and many resources.  But I do not trust them.  Call me naive, the future of humanity has ties with the rest of the galaxy.  And forgive me for the comparison, but who's to say the Reapers don't follow the same logic as Cerberus?  Truly believe they are working towards a greater good for themselves by wiping out sentient life.  If Cerberus wins, especially by using Reaper tech, guess who might end up going through the cycle again, and we all lose.

My honest thoughts.  Cheers.

[JohnDoe]

Cerberus fights for a expected goal of good towards one race.. using good intentions but incorrect and evil actions.

[GracefulChicken]

How did Overlord leave a bad taste in your mouth? I understand seeing scientific study on humans is difficult, but to quote Spock, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. I dont agree with how Cerberus might be using the technology (from what I've seen), but how they obtained the knowledge is almost irrelevant when weighed against how it's used (or should've/could've) been used.

[emblemsage]

GracefulChicken wrote...

How did Overlord leave a bad taste in your mouth? I understand seeing scientific study on humans is difficult, but to quote Spock, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. I dont agree with how Cerberus might be using the technology (from what I've seen), but how they obtained the knowledge is almost irrelevant when weighed against how it's used (or should've/could've) been used.

I understand that stance and accept that it might have been a necessary evil.  But acceptance does not equate to personal feeling of right or wrong.  I listed Overlord seperate from the various colony tests because of that point.  I know it's rather shallow as the colonies appear to have had the same goal.  But I wasn't thinking about that at the time of ME 1 because they weren't trying to portray Cerb as ambiguous.  By ME 2 and Overlord, the closer examination of the situation made it hit harder for me.

[Yuqi]

Because the world is not so simple.

[incinerator950]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

royard wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Like I said, self-serving with no redeeming values. No one is looking out for the galaxy as a whole.

It's all black and no white.

Shepard and co is.

The council is.

The council certainly isn't.  Do you remember what they did after the Morning War?  They didn't give any aid to quarians whatsoever, even though majority of them was innocent.  They also didn't do anything about the geth, either through peace or force. 

They are really just trying to preserve their own power. 

They are, but through that they have to care for their protectorate.

Unfortunately I can't find in ME 1 (where this originated) that the Council did or did not already have laws against AI use.  Its on the wiki, but I'd rather have a codex confirmation or conversation .

[AgitatedLemon]

I support their belief in advancing humanity.

That's about the extent though. I disagree with their actual practice and execution, by a large margin.

That said, there are a number of experiments of theirs that are actually brilliant, if somewhat skewed in practice.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 26 février 2012 - 09:15 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Like I said, self-serving with no redeeming values. No one is looking out for the galaxy as a whole.

It's all black and no white.

The reaeprs are.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
You didn't.

His "breakdown" isn't a clearly villanous one.

It most certainly is.

Well, if you say so than it MUST be true.
I guess there no possibility of ANY other interpretation whatsoever, right?

[Ziggeh]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Well, if you say so than it MUST be true.
I guess there no possibility of ANY other interpretation whatsoever, right?

That's pretty much the basis of most of your statements. Who needs supporting logic, amarite?