619 réponses à ce sujet

[Ziggeh]

Black_Vanguard wrote...

Well if you consider the possibility of what most peoples reactions would be to the discovery of another intelligent life form from space. It would be a natural reaction to such a thing. Not the right thing in your mind but it is a predictable reaction.

Oh yeah, people would go frotihng at the mouth mental, I understand that, just not the point about it being the moral thing to do.

[MisterJB]

Dasher1010 wrote...
Cerberus ins't really all that interested in helping humanity.

They have a very misleading manifesto, then.
That is to say, yes, yes they are.
 

They put a human scientist into a machine agaisnt his will

The purpose of Overlord was to prevent another war with the geth which would have cost thousands of human lives. I feel for David but were that the only option, Cerberus was not aware of the split between militant Heretics and peaceful Real Geth, we can not value the sanity of one human being over the lives of thousands of others.
 

and drugged and killed human children.

That work that cell did was not authorized by the leader of Cerberus, therefore, while they are not free of blame, you can not say that Cerberus killed human children.
But fine, I will humour you.
I am 100% against the methods used by the Teltin facility, however, humanity gaining biotics is another important step of our integration into the galactic community.

They aren't so much interested in helping humans as much as hurting aliens.

None of the exemples you presented prove that Cerberus hates aliens. Judging by their methods, one would actually think that they hate humans.

Can you provide an example where hurting aliens was the sole point of an operation rather than hurting aliens to help humans?

Modifié par MisterJB, 22 février 2012 - 06:05 .

[RazorrX]

I always thought that Cerberus in ME2 was more of a cover to get Shep on their side. Notice how every one of your crew is new to Cerberus? Most of them (Ie All except for Jacob and Miranda) are former Alliance and know very little about cerberus except for the Normandy Crew. EDI admits to monitoring you on the ship, this intel would be passed on to Kelly, Miranda and TIM.

Kelly has psyche profiles of everyone, and subtly manipulates you throughout the game into thinking Cerberus is not too bad, even doing the funky monkey at end game if you did not hook up with anyone. Miranda is 100% Cerberus and goes to lengths to try and convince you that when you DO find dirt on them that it "was not Cerberus, well not the REAL Cerberus."

Now why some will ally with them is purely a personal choice thing. Do you want to put humanity at the top of the foodchain at the expense of everyone else? Cerberus is your guy. It is more of an idealogical and rational choice vs moral one. Where do you want Humanity to be and how do you feel about the alien races.

I mean, I am tempted to allow the Turian worlds die because of the whole 'Reaper' thing with the Turian Council member.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Having read what they'll do in ME3, how can a rational mind not support them?

[Black_Vanguard]

Ziggeh wrote...

Black_Vanguard wrote...

Well if you consider the possibility of what most peoples reactions would be to the discovery of another intelligent life form from space. It would be a natural reaction to such a thing. Not the right thing in your mind but it is a predictable reaction.

Oh yeah, people would go frotihng at the mouth mental, I understand that, just not the point about it being the moral thing to do.

Morals are only involved when it comes to the support of Cerberus in ME3. Since it seems Cerberus is somehow working with the reapers in some fashion. In ME2 I think its understandable since the Illusive Man was wanting to put a stop to the Collector attacks and somehow acchieve human advancement in some capacity. At least in ME2 Cerberus didn't want to wipe out all organic life he(Illusive Man) wanted to put humans above all other species even if it meant killing them all and leaving humans at the top(Not too sure if that is what Cerberus exactly wanted, but I got that as a possible vibe while playing ME2)

With ME3 and how Cerberus is potrayed in it so far it would seem just plain crazy to support Cerberus unless you plan to join the reapers as well.

Modifié par Black_Vanguard, 22 février 2012 - 06:10 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

And when you lost the war:

"...The last portrait of Rembrandt and the last bar of Mozart will have ceased to be — though possibly a colored canvas and a sheet of notes will remain — because the last eye and the last ear accessible to their message will have gone." - Spengler

[Sabbatine]

Dasher1010 wrote...

Cerberus is an organization filled with anti-alien extremiests. The fact that they refer to themselves as "pro-human" instead of anti-alien and specifically target the Quarians who are intentionally modeled to be Jews in space rams home that they're futuristic Neo-****s. They're now working for the reapers in an attempt to get them to destroy everyone else besides humans. What is seriously the reason why people on here are still Cerberus fanboys?

How can a rational and moral person write a post like the one I am quoting?

[rwilli80]

Most likely its people who are doing it just to get under the Moral Police's skin. Remember one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

[Hunter of Legends]

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

To save the base to study and research it to finally find the weaknesses of the reapers and make better weapons ... Rational

Not so rational...we conviently forget the indoctrination devices on-board the base.

I blew it up.

[Hunter of Legends]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Having read what they'll do in ME3, how can a rational mind not support them?

They take away freedoms.


That's a big killer of rationale in my mind.

[Hansebrous]

It's not necessarilyy about belief in what Cerberus is doing, but desperation in the face of odds we can't see overcoming vs. Reapers.

Consider this irony:

my paragon "lets all work together" shepard ended up turning over the stuff to Cerberus after ME2. Figured though he dislikes them, we need everyone - including Cerberus - to defeat the Reapers. An they were one of the few groups even considering them a threat.

my renegade "I don't trust most aliens as far as I can throw them" shepard ended up destroying. Can't stomach the acts / behaviour from anyone, friend or foe. 

Modifié par Hansebrous, 22 février 2012 - 06:59 .

[Zkyire]

Dasher1010 wrote...

Cerberus is an organization filled with anti-alien extremiests. The fact that they refer to themselves as "pro-human" instead of anti-alien and specifically target the Quarians who are intentionally modeled to be Jews in space rams home that they're futuristic Neo-****s. They're now working for the reapers in an attempt to get them to destroy everyone else besides humans. What is seriously the reason why people on here are still Cerberus fanboys?

Rational people can support them perfectly.

Emotional people are the ones who are disgusted by them and can't.

[What a Succulent Ass]

Why is "****s" filtered?

[Kaiser Shepard]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

To save the base to study and research it to finally find the weaknesses of the reapers and make better weapons ... Rational

Not so rational...we conviently forget the indoctrination devices on-board the base.

I blew it up.

That's hardly rational.

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Having read what they'll do in ME3, how can a rational mind not support them?

They take away freedoms.


That's a big killer of rationale in my mind.

I fail to see how these "freedoms" of yours are in any way relevant.

rwilli80 wrote...

Most likely its people who are doing it just to get under the Moral Police's skin. Remember one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

It's how you look at "terrorists" that makes them bad or good, and I see us as members of a noble brotherhood.

[Hansebrous]

Zkyire wrote...

Rational people can support them perfectly.

Emotional people are the ones who are disgusted by them and can't.

Interesting. I see my renegade as emotional...my paragon as rational...very interesting explanation

[Zkyire]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Why is "****s" filtered?

Bioware doesn't like people invoking Godwin to win arguments?

[What a Succulent Ass]

RazorrX wrote...

I always thought that Cerberus in ME2 was more of a cover to get Shep on their side. Notice how every one of your crew is new to Cerberus? Most of them (Ie All except for Jacob and Miranda) are former Alliance

Jacob is former Alliance.

[What a Succulent Ass]

DP.

Modifié par Random Jerkface, 22 février 2012 - 07:03 .

[sorentoft]

Ziggeh wrote...

sorentoft wrote...

In real life I would probably support their anti-alien agenda as it is the only sensible and moral thing to do.

Is it? Surely that's heavily dependant. If we're talking about ravenous xenomorphs who to eat need human brains to survive, you know, fair enough, can't argue with the anti alien sentiment, but what if they're just like....people? From space?

Yes. In the end it will boil down to our species versus theirs. Either we enslave them like we have done every other species on Earth or they enslave/exterminate us. I say we destroy them first.

[Hunter of Legends]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

To save the base to study and research it to finally find the weaknesses of the reapers and make better weapons ... Rational

Not so rational...we conviently forget the indoctrination devices on-board the base.

I blew it up.

That's hardly rational.

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Having read what they'll do in ME3, how can a rational mind not support them?

They take away freedoms.


That's a big killer of rationale in my mind.

I fail to see how these "freedoms" of yours are in any way relevant.

rwilli80 wrote...

Most likely its people who are doing it just to get under the Moral Police's skin. Remember one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

It's how you look at "terrorists" that makes them bad or good, and I see us as members of a noble brotherhood.

Letting Cerberus get indoctrinated is rational? What?

I don't support becoming a reaper lacky. I also don't support a control freak like Illusive Man.

So to me supporting the ILLUSIVE MAN and saving the base is both irrational and foolish.

[hellsjarhead]

I have yet to play ME3 so I can't comment on what cerberus has done in that game but I don't see anything evil about them whatsoever up to this point. They are trying to make humans the dominant species, as a human I would support this even if it means aliens have to die. The quarians travel from system to system taking resources that don't belong to them and accept bribes to leave systems also they poop in their suits.

[Zkyire]

I don't support Cerberus in the confines of the game. I feel they go too far.

On the other hand, I'm not fond of the Alliance's willingness to bow to the authority of aliens in the form of the Council.

The Quarians were reliant on the Council.

And in their time of need, when their species was being exterminated, the Council did nothing to help because they saw no value in it for them.

The Alliance should become more independant from the Council, not further embedded in alien society.

Trade with them; fine.

Non-aggression pacts; fine.

But unless the Alliance is holding something back from the Council.. I'm not a big fan.

[sorentoft]

The Alliance actually bowing before the council is... Stupid. They need to be able to at the very least match the council's entire military (doesn't matter how, I mean, there is plenty of poor people on Earth, why not give them a better life in a mine somewhere or a drydock?). As soon as they have got that fleet they could crush the batarians and protect their colonies.

[Gabey5]

They are not anti-alien, they are pro-human. There is a difference. They want humanity to keep up in all fields, technology, biotics, militarily etc. They are willing to do whatever it takes to ensure that, even if it means harming a few humans, doing unethical experiments

Miranda said it best " too many join us out of simple xenophobia", they aren't Terra Firma

Modifié par Gabey5, 22 février 2012 - 07:17 .

[RazorrX]

Random Jerkface wrote...

RazorrX wrote...

I always thought that Cerberus in ME2 was more of a cover to get Shep on their side. Notice how every one of your crew is new to Cerberus? Most of them (Ie All except for Jacob and Miranda) are former Alliance

Jacob is former Alliance.

True, I clumped him with Miranda as they are the only two on your ship that seem to have been Cerberus prior to Normandy.  Every other crewmember you speak seem to be of the "I don't really know much about Cerberus, just this ship" group.  Which Jacob is not.