619 réponses à ce sujet

[mango smoothie]

Ok so when people make arguments about why Shepards would support Cerberus, don't bring information from the books into your arguments. Seriously Shepard was not around during the books, so using something that Shepard doesn't know about as an argument to why he shouldn't work for them is a lame excuse.
This is why I won't read the books till I finish Mass Effect 3. I want all my decisions to be based on what I've learned from the game, not the expanded universe.

[Dasher1010]

Gabey5 wrote...

They are not anti-alien, they are pro-human. There is a difference. They want humanity to keep up in all fields, technology, biotics, militarily etc. They are willing to do whatever it takes to ensure that, even if it means harming a few humans, doing unethical experiments

Miranda said it best " too many join us out of simple xenophobia", they aren't Terra Firma

Read the books, they have connections to Terra Firma. Also, how do you feel about groups who aren't anti-black but pro white and want to preserve white nightborhoods and white heritage?

[Dasher1010]

sorentoft wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

sorentoft wrote...

In real life I would probably support their anti-alien agenda as it is the only sensible and moral thing to do.

Is it? Surely that's heavily dependant. If we're talking about ravenous xenomorphs who to eat need human brains to survive, you know, fair enough, can't argue with the anti alien sentiment, but what if they're just like....people? From space?

Yes. In the end it will boil down to our species versus theirs. Either we enslave them like we have done every other species on Earth or they enslave/exterminate us. I say we destroy them first.

I agree. I dont trust the French, let's nuke them before they nuke us.

Modifié par Dasher1010, 22 février 2012 - 07:50 .

[IllusiveMike]

Dasher1010 wrote...

Read the books, they have connections to Terra Firma. Also, how do you feel about groups who aren't anti-black but pro white and want to preserve white nightborhoods and white heritage?

 Hahaha.  Yes, totally harmless. 

[Gabey5]

Dasher1010 wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

They are not anti-alien, they are pro-human. There is a difference. They want humanity to keep up in all fields, technology, biotics, militarily etc. They are willing to do whatever it takes to ensure that, even if it means harming a few humans, doing unethical experiments

Miranda said it best " too many join us out of simple xenophobia", they aren't Terra Firma

Read the books, they have connections to Terra Firma. Also, how do you feel about groups who aren't anti-black but pro white and want to preserve white nightborhoods and white heritage?

I think a better analogy would be being an African country a few hundred years ago before first contact with Britian and being asked to join the empire voluntarily after putting up a hell of a fight in a small war. Being asked to be a willing dominion rather than a territory. Being a new comer in world politics, military might etc.

We are not on the level of the other species and risk being overtaken. We have been on the scene for 3 decades while some of them have had 1000 years + in space

[eskr]

Dasher1010 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Oh, this thread is going to turn out well.

They killed an Alliance admerial, hired mercenaries to steal money from a hospital, attacked the Quarian Flotilla, turned a human colony into husks, etc. They're kind of evil, just saying.

To be fair, the hospital probably deserved it.
Have you seen what people charge for medical services?

[XDMMX]

The Asari, Turians and Salarians are oppressive towards other species, they advance themselves at the cost of other species imo. The Asari are the evil masterminds who act nice but culturally dominate others, the Turians are about military domination and the Salarias technological domination.

The Council races dominate and impose there will on those they deem to be "lesser species" such as Hanarr, Elchor, Volus, Drell, Quarians, Batarians, Krogans and Humans prior to ME1.

Those that the Council races deem unworthy are harshly punished, the Quarians left to be exterminated bye the Geth, The Krogan genophaged into near extinction and into a hellish existence, the Batarians forced into isolation because humans where the Councils new favorite plaything, the Rachni exterminated.

The real question would be how could a rational and moral person support the actions of the Council races.

Wile Humanity was allowed to join the Council, it was only do too humanities overwhelming strength and rapid growth, that the Council feared and could not ignore, even then the Council only grudgingly allowed us to join, because they knew that Humanity would be too great of an enemy.

This is why I believe that Humanity should be cable of being independent of the Council races, and resist the Cultural, Military, and Technological domination of the other species, because when it comes down to it, the Aliens will throw us to the Wolves when it is convenient for them.

[phimseto]

When Cerberus acts as a first line of defense against potential threats against humanity, they make a lot of sense. When they pursue an uber alles political and genetic agendas that is where it starts t get dicey. Cerberus is in need of a reformation, but as ME2 demonstrated, humanity could use an organization like it as a safety net.

[Ziggeh]

sorentoft wrote...

Yes. In the end it will boil down to our species versus theirs. Either we enslave them like we have done every other species on Earth or they enslave/exterminate us. I say we destroy them first.

What?

Those are the only possibilities? You're taking a stab at defining the motives of an entirely different species and concluded it's very definitely them or us?

[Golnth]

Have you seen what religion does to people?

[eskr]

(More seriously you can agree and disagree in parts.
e.g. I definitely disagree with the racist goals of ME2 Cerberus, but strongly support the ingenuity and drive they've taken on many experimental fronts. Not all of them. There are clear ethics violations to be sure, but just because they're morally bankrupt in many cases doesn't mean they don't do anything right.
That's the glory of progress. Take the good, replace the bad. In any case, as for supporting Cerberus a lot of it depends on your alternatives... [Though personally, I don't think the Reapers get enough credit. A race of super machines that uses the galaxy as a de facto genetic algorithm from which they skim the best to provide constant innovation to the Reaper race while at the same time preserving a part of the memory of a galactic cycle in perpetuity. Guys get a bad rap.])

[hellsjarhead]

Dasher1010 wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

They are not anti-alien, they are pro-human. There is a difference. They want humanity to keep up in all fields, technology, biotics, militarily etc. They are willing to do whatever it takes to ensure that, even if it means harming a few humans, doing unethical experiments

Miranda said it best " too many join us out of simple xenophobia", they aren't Terra Firma

Read the books, they have connections to Terra Firma. Also, how do you feel about groups who aren't anti-black but pro white and want to preserve white nightborhoods and white heritage?

are you comparing black people to aliens from another planet? /facepalm

[Kaiser Shepard]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Letting Cerberus get indoctrinated is rational? What?

Sure, just destroy that treasure trove of invaluable technology on the off chance that the entirety of Cerberus gets under Reaper control.

I don't support becoming a reaper lacky. I also don't support a control freak like Illusive Man.

Even if you don't like him, he still is the lesser of two evils.

So to me supporting the ILLUSIVE MAN and saving the base is both irrational and foolish.

On the contrary, destroying the base and its contents is irrational and foolish.

[sorentoft]

Ziggeh wrote...

sorentoft wrote...

Yes. In the end it will boil down to our species versus theirs. Either we enslave them like we have done every other species on Earth or they enslave/exterminate us. I say we destroy them first.

What?

Those are the only possibilities? You're taking a stab at defining the motives of an entirely different species and concluded it's very definitely them or us?

We cannot co-exist with another species without forcing them beneath our bootheel. Look at the history of mankind. We do not see eye to eye with animals. Other species on Earth are pets to us, slaves we use to sustain ourselves, som are kept alive for the notion that we are not all bad or rather that we have not brought yet another species to extinction and some last species are just waiting to be destroyed or enslaved. That is fact. We compete with other species - evolution boils down to us or them eventually. I say we kill them first.

[Malanek]

Dasher1010 wrote...

Cerberus is an organization filled with anti-alien extremiests. The fact that they refer to themselves as "pro-human" instead of anti-alien and specifically target the Quarians who are intentionally modeled to be Jews in space rams home that they're futuristic Neo-****s. They're now working for the reapers in an attempt to get them to destroy everyone else besides humans. What is seriously the reason why people on here are still Cerberus fanboys?

Well they provided crucial support to help save the galaxy and brought the players character back to life. Haven't seen confirmed reasons for their attacks on shepard so will have to hold off on judgement until evidence is given. But yeah they always did what they did for their own reasons... they just happened to coincide with your own in ME2.

[Hunter of Legends]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Letting Cerberus get indoctrinated is rational? What?

Sure, just destroy that treasure trove of invaluable technology on the off chance that the entirety of Cerberus gets under Reaper control.

I don't support becoming a reaper lacky. I also don't support a control freak like Illusive Man.

Even if you don't like him, he still is the lesser of two evils.

So to me supporting the ILLUSIVE MAN and saving the base is both irrational and foolish.

On the contrary, destroying the base and its contents is irrational and foolish.

It is more tactically benificial to destroy the base and deny the Reapers both resources and a base of operations AND prevent the loss of (sesemingly) an ally due to indoctrination.

He is the evil we fight. I see very few difference between the Reapers and TIM. To me he IS the enemy. Cerberus on the other hand is the enemy by proxy unfourtunatly.

I disagree; destorying the base is the only rational thing to do. The risks FAR outweigh the benefits.

[MisterJB]

Dasher1010 wrote...
Also, how do you feel about groups who aren't anti-black but pro white and want to preserve white nightborhoods and white heritage?

That is a racial issue. Being pro-human in the ME universe has nothing to do with hating other species simply because they are not like us. Being Pro-human in ME is being a nationalist who wants the best for our people.
It's just so happens that the nations of the ME universe are all different races.

[Takamori The Templar]

It's all about diversity of opinion.
Not everyone enjoy ice cream sir.
Yes shocking I know.

[Reever]

Neither extreme is good. Although it´s good to have fanatics in wars. It helps a lot (...Dune anyone?).

[Malanek]

MisterJB wrote...

Dasher1010 wrote...
Also, how do you feel about groups who aren't anti-black but pro white and want to preserve white nightborhoods and white heritage?

That is a racial issue. Being pro-human in the ME universe has nothing to do with hating other species simply because they are not like us. Being Pro-human in ME is being a nationalist who wants the best for our people.
It's just so happens that the nations of the ME universe are all different races.

Don't really agree. What about non-humans on human worlds or vice versa? Pro-human implies you would still favour the humans in those cases. It's not exactly the same but it is a very close analogy to racism.

[Ziggeh]

sorentoft wrote...

We cannot co-exist with another species without forcing them beneath our bootheel. Look at the history of mankind. We do not see eye to eye with animals.

Because they're animals! You don't think we'd have a slightly different relationship with cows if they could complain?

There a no parallels for this. Literally. That's the point.

sorentoft wrote...
That is fact. We compete with other species - evolution boils down to us or them eventually. I say we kill them first.

And we're not animals. Evolution in no way boils down to us or them. In fact, if evolution boils down to anything in terms of interspecies relations, it's interdependence, but quite aside from that we have a complex jelly in our skulls that means we don't act purely on instinct.

[Zkyire]

MisterJB wrote...

Dasher1010 wrote...
Also, how do you feel about groups who aren't anti-black but pro white and want to preserve white nightborhoods and white heritage?

That is a racial issue. Being pro-human in the ME universe has nothing to do with hating other species simply because they are not like us. Being Pro-human in ME is being a nationalist who wants the best for our people.
It's just so happens that the nations of the ME universe are all different races.

Unfortunately there are plenty of people who don't seem to be able to differentiate nationalism with racism.

No matter how many times you or others tell them they'll keep bring up "But that's racist".

[Dasher1010]

MisterJB wrote...

Dasher1010 wrote...
Also, how do you feel about groups who aren't anti-black but pro white and want to preserve white nightborhoods and white heritage?

That is a racial issue. Being pro-human in the ME universe has nothing to do with hating other species simply because they are not like us. Being Pro-human in ME is being a nationalist who wants the best for our people.
It's just so happens that the nations of the ME universe are all different races.

Well since the N-word is banned in Europe, far-right political parties most of them use nationalist as a euphamism. I feel that Adolf Hitler was a great nationalist leader who fought for his people agsitn the aggression of Soviet Communism out of his love for the German people and his agenda to conquer new lands and slowly give them over to German people through a prcoess of cleansations to one day everyone in Poland woulde be German. Nationalist is totally a code word  for white racist in today's world.

Modifié par Dasher1010, 22 février 2012 - 08:21 .

[Ziggeh]

Zkyire wrote...

Unfortunately there are plenty of people who don't seem to be able to differentiate nationalism with racism.

No matter how many times you or others tell them they'll keep bring up "But that's racist".

It's kind of a fine line. By definition nationalism is a state of opposition.

[Ziggeh]

Dasher1010 wrote...

Well since the N-word is banned in Europe, far-right political parties most of them use nationalist as a euphamism. I feel that Adolf Hitler was a great nationalist leader who fought for his people agsitn the aggression of Soviet Communism out of his love for the German people and his agenda to conquer new lands and slowly give them over to German people through a prcoess of cleansations to one day everyone in Poland woulde be German. Nationalist is totally a code word  for white racist in today's world.

Haha, that is the least subtle trolling I've ever seen.