619 réponses à ce sujet

[Xayoz]

AlexXIV wrote...

Xayoz wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
Sorry but Cerberus in ME1 and ME3 makes more sense to me than Cerberus in ME2.

What about Cerberus in ME1?

They were terrorist and you killed them on sight. Nice and easy. No complications.

Oh? I certainly did not.

[Dasher1010]

Dasher1010 wrote...

General User wrote...

For me the appeal of Cerberus lies in the fact that, in Mass Effect, a cabal of vicious, racist, mass-murdering, plutocrats are suppose to be the good guys! 

In that kind of galaxy the idea of someone who can be just as nasty, but for our side does begin to take on a certain appeal.

Now don't get me wrong, Cerberus has done things where every single person involved should be lined up against a wall and shot.  But that doesn't change the fact that we need an organization like Cerberus.

Bascally, Bioware did a great job at making Cerberus a morally
ambigous group who followed a horrific agenda because gamers as a social
group are an inrdibly racist bunch. This is coming from somebody who
is studying game design and knows that if you wnat to put a message of
tolerance and diversity in a game, you also have to appeal to the people
who scream racial slurs in Halo and Call of Duty by putting some
Southern Strategy-style coded racism into the game that won't offend
white people since they're still the biggest market even though black
gamers are more likely to purchase DLC. The interplay between politics,
demographics and marketing is something that flies right over most gamers heads.

I like how nobody on here disputes this, calls me a racist, etc.

[SnapJackalPop]

If nothing else for a group that wants to safeguard humanity they certainly have no qualms about targeting their own species. That put them firmly in the villian bracket for my alien-hating Shephard, although he kept the base. He just made sure certain people never came back...

Ultimately, however, I feel that like most self-appointed guardians of a cause they end up justfying any horror to themselves in the name of a 'greater good'.

[General User]

Dasher1010 wrote...

Dasher1010 wrote...

General User wrote...

For me the appeal of Cerberus lies in the fact that, in Mass Effect, a cabal of vicious, racist, mass-murdering, plutocrats are suppose to be the good guys! 

In that kind of galaxy the idea of someone who can be just as nasty, but for our side does begin to take on a certain appeal.

Now don't get me wrong, Cerberus has done things where every single person involved should be lined up against a wall and shot.  But that doesn't change the fact that we need an organization like Cerberus.

Bascally, Bioware did a great job at making Cerberus a morally
ambigous group who followed a horrific agenda because gamers as a social
group are an inrdibly racist bunch. This is coming from somebody who
is studying game design and knows that if you wnat to put a message of
tolerance and diversity in a game, you also have to appeal to the people
who scream racial slurs in Halo and Call of Duty by putting some
Southern Strategy-style coded racism into the game that won't offend
white people since they're still the biggest market even though black
gamers are more likely to purchase DLC. The interplay between politics,
demographics and marketing is something that flies right over most gamers heads.

I like how nobody on here disputes this, calls me a racist, etc.

Did you want someone to do that?

[ReallyRue]

Even if I wasn't bothered about the fact that they despise aliens, I'd dislike the fact they conduct all sorts of terrible experiments on human victims, and I don't trust TIM as far as I can throw him. Hand him the Collector Base and he'd probably try and liquefy everyone on Palaven to make his very own Reaper. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to liquefy everyone on Earth if it would get him dominating the galaxy.

[Dave of Canada]

Yes, a small organization mostly consisting of scientists totally would make their own Reaper despite it taking the Collector army almost three years of uninterrupted kidnapping without retaliation to build the upper torso of a reaper larva.

[Zkyire]

Dasher1010 wrote...

Dasher1010 wrote...

General User wrote...

For me the appeal of Cerberus lies in the fact that, in Mass Effect, a cabal of vicious, racist, mass-murdering, plutocrats are suppose to be the good guys! 

In that kind of galaxy the idea of someone who can be just as nasty, but for our side does begin to take on a certain appeal.

Now don't get me wrong, Cerberus has done things where every single person involved should be lined up against a wall and shot.  But that doesn't change the fact that we need an organization like Cerberus.

Bascally, Bioware did a great job at making Cerberus a morally
ambigous group who followed a horrific agenda because gamers as a social
group are an inrdibly racist bunch. This is coming from somebody who
is studying game design and knows that if you wnat to put a message of
tolerance and diversity in a game, you also have to appeal to the people
who scream racial slurs in Halo and Call of Duty by putting some
Southern Strategy-style coded racism into the game that won't offend
white people since they're still the biggest market even though black
gamers are more likely to purchase DLC. The interplay between politics,
demographics and marketing is something that flies right over most gamers heads.

I like how nobody on here disputes this, calls me a racist, etc.

Your drivel is being ignored.

You constantly equate nationalism with racism. No proof to back it up. "I study this" is not proof. When you make a claim; you provide a reference. You have provided none. You just repeatedly call nationalists racists.

You are also now calling most gamers racist too.

Seriously, you are spoutin utter nonsense and I am asking you nicely to just stop.

[vonSlash]

Dasher1010 wrote...
How can a rational moral person still support Cerberus?

Simple. There's no such thing as objective morality.

[heisman45]

Well you shoudln't ever support Cerberus TIM makes it very clear he doesn't actually care about human's he cares more about Cerberus. But if they help stop the reapers then all the power to them but outside of being a small asset to the war (but I would argue they hurt as much as they help) they are not to be supported.

[Dasher1010]

General User wrote...

Dasher1010 wrote...

Dasher1010 wrote...

General User wrote...

For me the appeal of Cerberus lies in the fact that, in Mass Effect, a cabal of vicious, racist, mass-murdering, plutocrats are suppose to be the good guys! 

In that kind of galaxy the idea of someone who can be just as nasty, but for our side does begin to take on a certain appeal.

Now don't get me wrong, Cerberus has done things where every single person involved should be lined up against a wall and shot.  But that doesn't change the fact that we need an organization like Cerberus.

Bascally, Bioware did a great job at making Cerberus a morally
ambigous group who followed a horrific agenda because gamers as a social
group are an inrdibly racist bunch. This is coming from somebody who
is studying game design and knows that if you wnat to put a message of
tolerance and diversity in a game, you also have to appeal to the people
who scream racial slurs in Halo and Call of Duty by putting some
Southern Strategy-style coded racism into the game that won't offend
white people since they're still the biggest market even though black
gamers are more likely to purchase DLC. The interplay between politics,
demographics and marketing is something that flies right over most gamers heads.

I like how nobody on here disputes this, calls me a racist, etc.

Did you want someone to do that?

Just getting debate started about coded racism in games and if its neccessary to make a commercially successful title.

Modifié par Dasher1010, 22 février 2012 - 10:14 .

[Gabey5]

Dasher1010 wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

They are not anti-alien, they are pro-human. There is a difference. They want humanity to keep up in all fields, technology, biotics, militarily etc. They are willing to do whatever it takes to ensure that, even if it means harming a few humans, doing unethical experiments

Miranda said it best " too many join us out of simple xenophobia", they aren't Terra Firma

Read the books, they have connections to Terra Firma. 

i have. They use puppets and spies in terra firma as they do with every other group in the galaxy 

[tch2296]

Merengues 1945 wrote...

I've hated cerberus since "UNC: Cerberus"... they reinforced that bad idea on ME2, and the books, I've no reason to be polite with them, they're just bullies, "the human condition rot" in it's maximum splendor.

I have no reasons to sympathise with a bunch of coward obtuse, also-racist, guys like the quarians either... So, if Cerberus kills for once the quarians, then and only then I will gladly even join to their ranks.

Cerberus attacked and boarded the quarian ship Idenna (I think) in one of the Mass Effect novels, I forgot which one. They killed dozens of quarians if I recall correctly.

[tch2296]

Dasher1010 wrote...

Just getting debate started about coded racism in games and if its neccessary to make a commercially successful title.

How about you bring your lame-a*s "debate" to its own thread. Wrong topic.

Modifié par tch2296, 22 février 2012 - 10:59 .

[Merengues 1945]

tch2296 wrote...

Merengues 1945 wrote...

I've hated cerberus since "UNC: Cerberus"... they reinforced that bad idea on ME2, and the books, I've no reason to be polite with them, they're just bullies, "the human condition rot" in it's maximum splendor.

I have no reasons to sympathise with a bunch of coward obtuse, also-racist, guys like the quarians either... So, if Cerberus kills for once the quarians, then and only then I will gladly even join to their ranks.

Cerberus attacked and boarded the quarian ship Idenna (I think) in one of the Mass Effect novels, I forgot which one. They killed dozens of quarians if I recall correctly.

I mean every single quarian.. those guys are seriously pedantic. Just a undesirable bunch, I really hope an in-game optinon to wipe them all.

[Hunter of Legends]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'd question putting the word rational next to the word moral.

A decision can't be both?

[Hunter of Legends]

vonSlash wrote...

Dasher1010 wrote...
How can a rational moral person still support Cerberus?

Simple. There's no such thing as objective morality.

We can deduce a simple objective morality no?

Perhaps not anything complicated but a basic set of guidelines yes?

[Thompson family]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Oh, this thread is going to turn out well.

Still more evidence, as if any were needed, that the best reply to any thread is almost always the first one.

[Malanek]

Thompson family wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Oh, this thread is going to turn out well.

Still more evidence, as if any were needed, that the best reply to any thread is almost always the first one.

Not really. The debate has largely been pretty good in the thread. Much better than the MULTIPLE no day 1 dlc or I'm cancelling my pre-order threads popping up in the last day.

Modifié par Malanek999, 23 février 2012 - 12:39 .

[GodWood]

I don't see how any sane, rational person could think playing paragon [aka continually risking the entire galaxy and sacrificing its safety and well being for the sake of satisfying ones own kindergarten morality] is the 'moral' thing to do.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Godwinned within the space of three comments. Most impressive.

[Hunter of Legends]

GodWood wrote...

I don't see how any sane, rational person could think playing paragon [aka continually risking the entire galaxy and sacrificing its safety and well being for the sake of satisfying ones own kindergarten morality] is the 'moral' thing to do.

I'd hardly call paragon kindergarten morality.

Renegade shepard is hardly any better. Shooting people for the most inane(and often insane) reasoning is not a good way to live your life.

[ADLegend21]

I have a theory that TIM is just acting like he's going agianst Shepard, even with the base destroyed, so that he can gain favori with the Reapers only to cripple them at the right time and shepard give them the killing blow. He'll probably die like a before Shepard and that'll help Shepard win. just a theory.

[titoarc]

Dasher1010 wrote...

Cerberus is an organization filled with anti-alien extremiests. The fact that they refer to themselves as "pro-human" instead of anti-alien and specifically target the Quarians who are intentionally modeled to be Jews in space rams home that they're futuristic Neo-****s. They're now working for the reapers in an attempt to get them to destroy everyone else besides humans. What is seriously the reason why people on here are still Cerberus fanboys?

the interspecies rathism is not amoral , its in humanity , you know , we have the right to destroy a specie if we want ...

sarcasm but we are doing it on earth