13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Hatire]

I think what bothers me as a consumer, is that this feels like content was cut from the core of the game to be monetized and exact even greater profits, and the deception that was given to cover who the squaddie would be, Had it been revealed that the squaddie was in fact going to be Prothy and not been mislead that it was merely a typo, then at least I would have considered preordering the CE. But given that deception, the late announcement after the majority if not all CEs for the 360 have been sold out, added on to the monetary feel of this decision, is what really is upsetting for me, and I imagine I'm not the only one who feels this way.

[Draconis6666]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

This was leaked in like July of last year, you really expect us to believe it didn't finish until after you sent the game for certification? Come on. Even after reading the script, this is too far. You guys really crossed the line with this one. it's getting harder an harder to recognize you Bioware.

-Polite

That there was a prothean squad member was leaked july of last year and that he is mentioned int he leaked script does not mean he was not Cut at which point all work on him and anything directly related to him would have stopped or been altered so as not to include him. The reason you are even able to have cut content on release day is likely because of efficient planning, They could easily have decided as soon as they cut it that it was something they wanted for DLC. This allows them to do minor work alongside the main production cycle on things such as voice over work etc, that allows them to complete the full content much faster upon sending the core game for certification. 

If you look it will not be hard to find several games where characters who were integral to the plot of one form of the script are completely cut from the game even as close as a couple months before release due to time or budget constraints. In fact i can think of several games where characters were basicaly completed with animations models textures voice over etc and were completely cut from the game because of one reason or another.  

The beauty of having DLC is that those partialy completed characters and plots who were put aside in favor of things deemed of greater importance can be finished in the months after certication to be day 1 or 1 month DLC.

[GuyIncognito21]

pilot2969 wrote...

So what you're essentially asking is, If there were no financial benefit to Bioware for producing this DLC would they have made it?

Right.  I'm asking whether the "benefits (financial or otherwise)" of making ME3 alone would have justified the creation of this prothean content.

If so, then the DLC is a ripoff.  If not, then it's just like any other legitimate DLC.

[nightlordv]

neubourn wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...


Thats a valid opinon, and honestly I agree with you, but I also agree that it is EA/Bioware's right to decide if they wish to give that content to us for free or not. It is their work and their content, we are not entitled to get it for free simply because we believe we are. They have every right to decide that we should have to pay for their work, if people agree with that or not and wish to pay them for that work or decide that the work is not something they are interested in for the cost is up to the consumers. The outrage over the issue is entirely blown out of proportion and most of it is completely unfounded and backed by a sense of entitlement that people feel they deserve it for free.

exactly. 

lets play Devil's Advocate here...lets pretend they had NO intention to give out the content beyond the already announced CE's. What would all non-CE owners do? Rush to the forums crying about how its not fair, demanding that they be allowed to purchase that content. I can already see it...usergroups and forums sigs saying "i support prothean squadmte for DLC!!"

And as you pointed out, its BW's content, and they decided to make it available for anyone who wants to purchase it. And yet, people are still upset about it. 

In the end, it really is BioWare's content...and they are the ones who have to design it, write the story, develop the levels and gameplay, and hire actors to voice it. And yet, people are mad that they are actually putting a price on that? Why shouldnt they? If people dont want it, then dont buy it. Just dont act like you are ENTITLED to that content, simply because it adds to the lore and story of ME3. 

And lets not forget that Bioware would not be able to make this "content" without us paying for their games and all the other DLC from said games in the past. I love it when people say things like that, yes Bioware created ME, but who made it what it was? The people that paid for their games and supported them. 

[T_l_M_B_0]

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

You are already making $60-80 a copy which translates to over $60,000,000 after just 100k copies sold which will probably be met within the first 24 hours. Im pretty sure you don't have a need to ****** off your already-angry fanbase more by charging money you don't need.

I think your math may be a little (alot) off there.

60x100k=6 million, not 60 million.

[CitizenSnips]

nightlordv wrote...

neubourn wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...


Thats a valid opinon, and honestly I agree with you, but I also agree that it is EA/Bioware's right to decide if they wish to give that content to us for free or not. It is their work and their content, we are not entitled to get it for free simply because we believe we are. They have every right to decide that we should have to pay for their work, if people agree with that or not and wish to pay them for that work or decide that the work is not something they are interested in for the cost is up to the consumers. The outrage over the issue is entirely blown out of proportion and most of it is completely unfounded and backed by a sense of entitlement that people feel they deserve it for free.

exactly. 

lets play Devil's Advocate here...lets pretend they had NO intention to give out the content beyond the already announced CE's. What would all non-CE owners do? Rush to the forums crying about how its not fair, demanding that they be allowed to purchase that content. I can already see it...usergroups and forums sigs saying "i support prothean squadmte for DLC!!"

And as you pointed out, its BW's content, and they decided to make it available for anyone who wants to purchase it. And yet, people are still upset about it. 

In the end, it really is BioWare's content...and they are the ones who have to design it, write the story, develop the levels and gameplay, and hire actors to voice it. And yet, people are mad that they are actually putting a price on that? Why shouldnt they? If people dont want it, then dont buy it. Just dont act like you are ENTITLED to that content, simply because it adds to the lore and story of ME3. 

And lets not forget that Bioware would not be able to make this "content" without us paying for their games and all the other DLC from said games in the past. I love it when people say things like that, yes Bioware created ME, but who made it what it was? The people that paid for their games and supported them. 

Because it was a good product. It's a symbiotic relationship.

[alterIncogn1T0]

rumbalumba wrote...

alterIncogn1T0 wrote...

rumbalumba wrote...




translation: buy it or not. end of story.

Hasn't that always been the case with all products and services?

Criterion Games' Burnout Paradise did the exact opposite. most DLCs were free including new vehicles, new maps, new missions, etc.

oh and guess what, it was "download it or not we don't care. but it's free."

big difference, my friend. big, big difference.

There have been several other DLC by BioWare that were free of charge as well, though. The Firewalker DLC and some of the weapons and armor add-ons come to mind.

I try not to pretend to know what goes on in the studios or in the devs minds, but I do believe that they're doing what bests for our interests. After all, it's because of our interests that we choose to spend our hard-earned money.

Of course, I could be totally wrong, too.

[Nima55]

Yuoaman wrote...

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

Michael Gamble wrote...

snip

snip

snip

snip

snip

I'll reiterate what I've said at least once every couple of pages: a live Prothean is a ****ING HUGE DEAL in the context of Mass Effect. Like, monumentally huge - and this is the content they decided that some gamers could live without? I mean, Zaeed was cool, but if he weren't in the game people wouldn't spend the whole time wondering, "Who the hell actually founded the Blue Suns...?" Prothy IS, however, a big deal.

how do  you know this? all we know about the dlc is that it takes place on eden prime and there is a prothean squadie. hell we don't even know what prothy's name is. it be like calling zaeed humany. to me, he seem like fanservice and offers a slight insight into the protheans akin to zaeed did with the blue suns.

Modifié par Nima55, 23 février 2012 - 07:49 .

[RiouHotaru]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

The problem with citing "supply and demand" as a justification for shady business practices is, again, the fact that in this particular medium, people can have what they demand for free if you alienate them enough.

If I have water and you're dying of thirst, I can pretty much get whatever I want out of you. If, however, it starts raining and you can get free water, then all my leverage falls apart, doesn't it?

It doesn't even acquire alienation to make people get what they want for free.  All they have to do is feel sufficiently entitled to it without a desire to acquire it legally, and BAM, that's it.

[titusrsoooooo1337]

T_l_M_B_0 wrote...

titusrsoooooo1337 wrote...

You are already making $60-80 a copy which translates to over $60,000,000 after just 100k copies sold which will probably be met within the first 24 hours. Im pretty sure you don't have a need to ****** off your already-angry fanbase more by charging money you don't need.

I think your math may be a little (alot) off there.

60x100k=6 million, not 60 million.

sorry i'm a lil high right now. you know...red sand n stuff 

[GuyIncognito21]

RiouHotaru wrote...

It doesn't even acquire alienation to make people get what they want for free.  All they have to do is feel sufficiently entitled to it without a desire to acquire it legally, and BAM, that's it.

For some people, sure, but they are who they are and there's no point in worrying about them if you're a developer; you were never going to get their money in the first place.

It's the people who were planning to buy your game 12 hours ago and now aren't that should concern you.

Modifié par GuyIncognito21, 23 février 2012 - 07:49 .

[AkiKishi]

neubourn wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...


Thats a valid opinon, and honestly I agree with you, but I also agree that it is EA/Bioware's right to decide if they wish to give that content to us for free or not. It is their work and their content, we are not entitled to get it for free simply because we believe we are. They have every right to decide that we should have to pay for their work, if people agree with that or not and wish to pay them for that work or decide that the work is not something they are interested in for the cost is up to the consumers. The outrage over the issue is entirely blown out of proportion and most of it is completely unfounded and backed by a sense of entitlement that people feel they deserve it for free.

exactly. 

lets play Devil's Advocate here...lets pretend they had NO intention to give out the content beyond the already announced CE's. What would all non-CE owners do? Rush to the forums crying about how its not fair, demanding that they be allowed to purchase that content. I can already see it...usergroups and forums sigs saying "i support prothean squadmte for DLC!!"

And as you pointed out, its BW's content, and they decided to make it available for anyone who wants to purchase it. And yet, people are still upset about it. 

In the end, it really is BioWare's content...and they are the ones who have to design it, write the story, develop the levels and gameplay, and hire actors to voice it. And yet, people are mad that they are actually putting a price on that? Why shouldnt they? If people dont want it, then dont buy it. Just dont act like you are ENTITLED to that content, simply because it adds to the lore and story of ME3. 

Bioware brought this on themselves.

1. They made it a Prothean .
2. They never said it was a Prothean, which is why now people have found out they are going ballistic.

Bioware might make some money from this , but they will lose even more in the long term.

[jkd1975]

fatalmaverick wrote...

wow you really want that pat on the head from bioware. You're the type to yell 'GOOD JOB OFFICER' as he beats a non resisting suspect into the ground with his baton.

Wait you mean you're not supposed to do that? crap...

[Yuoaman]

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

None of this is an explanation of why you deserve this for less than the developer is asking you to pay. It's a huge deal to you? Why lucky you! This content is available for purchase!

I'm asking why should you not have to pay for this. "It's a big ****ing deal" isn't a satisfactory answer.

Alright, since the Protheans aren't that important, apparently, let's just take out all references to the asari unless you fork over an extra $5.

Seems fair, right?

[Draconis6666]

fatalmaverick wrote...

wow you really want that pat on the head from bioware. You're the type to yell 'GOOD JOB OFFICER' as he beats a non resisting suspect into the ground with his baton.

That comparison makes you look soo foolish it makes it hard to take anything else you have said seriously which is sad because some of it had some valid points.

[Yuoaman]

Nima55 wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

Michael Gamble wrote...

snip

snip

snip

snip

snip

I'll reiterate what I've said at least once every couple of pages: a live Prothean is a ****ING HUGE DEAL in the context of Mass Effect. Like, monumentally huge - and this is the content they decided that some gamers could live without? I mean, Zaeed was cool, but if he weren't in the game people wouldn't spend the whole time wondering, "Who the hell actually founded the Blue Suns...?" Prothy IS, however, a big deal.

how do  you know this? all we know about the dlc is that it takes place on eden prime and there is a prothean squadie. hell we don't even know what prothy's name is. it be like calling zaeed humany. too he he seem like fanservice and offers a slight insight into the protheans akin to zaeed did with the blue suns.

Javik.

That's his name

Enjoy the spoiler, man.

[pilot2969]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

pilot2969 wrote...

So what you're essentially asking is, If there were no financial benefit to Bioware for producing this DLC would they have made it?

Right.  I'm asking whether the "benefits (financial or otherwise)" of making ME3 alone would have justified the creation of this prothean content.

If so, then the DLC is a ripoff.  If not, then it's just like any other legitimate DLC.

I would say then, that they would not have produced the DLC if there were no financial gain to be had. A business that doesn't operate on that principle is doomed to fail. Business is simple: 

1. Create Product that people want
2. Sell Product
3. Maximize Profit
4. Minimize Loss

It seems to me that you have more of a problem with basic business principles over anything else, any CEO who makes a product and just gives it away is dooming their company to failure. I support Bioware's decision and right to make a profit.

[bazzybond]

OK!!!
It's been argued to death. Move on!

This sounds super cool but I wonder why it's Eden Prime? and how come no one has ever discovered him before hmmmm. Interesting.

I hope his voice isn't annoying though

[AlanC9]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

This was leaked in like July of last year, you really expect us to believe it didn't finish until after you sent the game for certification? 

Why shouldn't we believe that the DLC was finished later? Once they decided that this would be the DLC, there'd be no point in giving it the same deadline as the game proper.

[RiouHotaru]

Yuoaman wrote...

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

None of this is an explanation of why you deserve this for less than the developer is asking you to pay. It's a huge deal to you? Why lucky you! This content is available for purchase!

I'm asking why should you not have to pay for this. "It's a big ****ing deal" isn't a satisfactory answer.

Alright, since the Protheans aren't that important, apparently, let's just take out all references to the asari unless you fork over an extra $5.

Seems fair, right?

Actually yeah, the Protheans aren't important anymore.  Their role in the plot ended in ME1.  That they were referenced in ME2 is more a plot point for the Reapers than anything else.

[Draconis6666]

BobSmith101 wrote...

neubourn wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...


Thats a valid opinon, and honestly I agree with you, but I also agree that it is EA/Bioware's right to decide if they wish to give that content to us for free or not. It is their work and their content, we are not entitled to get it for free simply because we believe we are. They have every right to decide that we should have to pay for their work, if people agree with that or not and wish to pay them for that work or decide that the work is not something they are interested in for the cost is up to the consumers. The outrage over the issue is entirely blown out of proportion and most of it is completely unfounded and backed by a sense of entitlement that people feel they deserve it for free.

exactly. 

lets play Devil's Advocate here...lets pretend they had NO intention to give out the content beyond the already announced CE's. What would all non-CE owners do? Rush to the forums crying about how its not fair, demanding that they be allowed to purchase that content. I can already see it...usergroups and forums sigs saying "i support prothean squadmte for DLC!!"

And as you pointed out, its BW's content, and they decided to make it available for anyone who wants to purchase it. And yet, people are still upset about it. 

In the end, it really is BioWare's content...and they are the ones who have to design it, write the story, develop the levels and gameplay, and hire actors to voice it. And yet, people are mad that they are actually putting a price on that? Why shouldnt they? If people dont want it, then dont buy it. Just dont act like you are ENTITLED to that content, simply because it adds to the lore and story of ME3. 

Bioware brought this on themselves.

1. They made it a Prothean .
2. They never said it was a Prothean, which is why now people have found out they are going ballistic.

Bioware might make some money from this , but they will lose even more in the long term.

 
Absolutly true but in no way validates the opposite side's claims at all. Bioware did indeed bring it upon themselves for not recognizing the entitlement that their fan base has in terms of what they should be given. That does not make the sense of entitlement that those fans have any more valid. Both sides are at fault in this argument for different reasons.

[LemuresXL]

I had bought every Bioware game. Mass Effect is possibly my favorite game seires. What you're doing with this dlc though? Pretty low guys. Pretty damn low. This will be the first bioware game I don't buy... Until maybe way later when some super deal is goin on. You guys pulled a real d bag move.

[Bosnique]

So after paying $60, (a premium price) they'll withhold some of the content until we fork over more money, after we've just given them 60 bucks that day?

Supporters that have bought both games on launch day and have made the trilogy possible are now getting a finger from bioware.

They'll risk loosing customers in the long run just to inflate their sales figures in short term, not a smart strategy.

[RiouHotaru]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

It doesn't even acquire alienation to make people get what they want for free.  All they have to do is feel sufficiently entitled to it without a desire to acquire it legally, and BAM, that's it.

For some people, sure, but they are who they are and there's no point in worrying about them if you're a developer; you were never going to get their money in the first place.

It's the people who were planning to buy your game 12 hours ago and now aren't that should concern you.

Luckily, those numbers aren't big enough to warrant any concern, since the forums constitute a very small percentage of the total consumer base.

[neubourn]

nightlordv wrote...

neubourn wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...


Thats a valid opinon, and honestly I agree with you, but I also agree that it is EA/Bioware's right to decide if they wish to give that content to us for free or not. It is their work and their content, we are not entitled to get it for free simply because we believe we are. They have every right to decide that we should have to pay for their work, if people agree with that or not and wish to pay them for that work or decide that the work is not something they are interested in for the cost is up to the consumers. The outrage over the issue is entirely blown out of proportion and most of it is completely unfounded and backed by a sense of entitlement that people feel they deserve it for free.

exactly. 

lets play Devil's Advocate here...lets pretend they had NO intention to give out the content beyond the already announced CE's. What would all non-CE owners do? Rush to the forums crying about how its not fair, demanding that they be allowed to purchase that content. I can already see it...usergroups and forums sigs saying "i support prothean squadmte for DLC!!"

And as you pointed out, its BW's content, and they decided to make it available for anyone who wants to purchase it. And yet, people are still upset about it. 

In the end, it really is BioWare's content...and they are the ones who have to design it, write the story, develop the levels and gameplay, and hire actors to voice it. And yet, people are mad that they are actually putting a price on that? Why shouldnt they? If people dont want it, then dont buy it. Just dont act like you are ENTITLED to that content, simply because it adds to the lore and story of ME3. 

And lets not forget that Bioware would not be able to make this "content" without us paying for their games and all the other DLC from said games in the past. I love it when people say things like that, yes Bioware created ME, but who made it what it was? The people that paid for their games and supported them. 

And you are correct. If games are a democracy, then you vote with your wallet. Obviously BW has been doing *something* right if they are making millions off the ME franchise. But, no matter what anyone thinks, you are only entitled to what you pay for. 

I pre-ordered the CE when it was announced. But lets say for the sake of argument that the From Ashes DLC is NOT the "squadmate" included. You know what? I would still pay an additional $10 for the DLC, because i think its worth it. And thats on top of what i paid for the CE. 

The fact is, and im surprised BW hasnt touched on this...is that in today's game development, ALOT of developers plan ahead for DLC. Thats just how games are made now. Before...DLC wasnt even word, and was relegated to PC's because of their internet connections, and were called "Expansions" but, because of Xbox Live, developers began to see the potential in DLC, so it shifted from actual game add-ons, months after release to vital expansions that are planned from inception, months before a game is even released, and the quality in DLC reflects this.

ME 1 had one good DLC pack (BDTS), and one slapped on DLC pack. Whereas ME2 had quite a few decent sized chunks of DLC. Look at the Project Firewalker DLC...you dont think that was planned ahead? Why else was there an empty space in the Normandy cargo hold to place the Hammerhead?