13369 réponses à ce sujet

[FlyingCow371]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...
Its like saying that the entire plot of Star Wars A New Hope doesnt make sense because the Emperor is a key lore element but you never see him in the movie so without him the entire movie doesnt make sense.

No, it's like saying it would be unscrupulous crap for George Lucas to write the Emperor into the script from the get-go then charge people an extra $10 if they wanted to see those scenes.

The absence or presence of this additional content isn't the issue, it's the fact that they felt it was important enough to ship with the game but still chose to charge people extra money for.

It's important enough to ship with the collectors edition of the game as a cool bonus/incentive to buy the fancier game version, not important enough to prioritize to include in the actual game. But since it is something that people might find interesting, they're selling it for $10. If it's not worth it don't buy it. Prothean lore isn't being stripped out of the game...they're still there in the mythology of the universe, an extinct species tragically defeated by the repears thousands of years ago. A cautionary tale for what is at stake if Shepherd fails. Having a member of the species survive doesn't add much.

[GuyIncognito21]

neubourn wrote...
You mean like how George Lucas filmed the Jabba the Hutt scenes for A New Hope, but went back and charged people extra to see it when he digitally added them when released the "Special Editions?" 

*facepalm*

Yes, that's exactly what I mean, and exactly why George Lucas is a money-grubbing scumbag who has never gotten a nickel from me.

[NubXL]

I think a lot of people wouldn't be so upset if the content was different. Someone else said it pretty well on page 1.

Yuoaman: "So are the Reapers going to also be DLC? I mean, since they're as inconsequential as the Protheans to the lore of the universe..."

A Prothean being alive is a huge deal in the Mass Effect lore. It's very reasonable for someone to be angry about content as important as that to be cut for DLC profits. You guys should have made a much less important plot point into DLC if you had to cut something at all. This is foolish, and I have to believe you're not so naive that you didn't see the backlash coming a mile away. You're just begging for it with this decision.

[Appasionata88]

I don't think anyone is doubting the teams heart and dedication towards the DLC and content. Everyone appreciates that you guys have developed even more content for one of the biggest hits of all time.

However, it is the nature of the DLC that have got quite a few people incensed. This DLC features a Prothean squad mate, focusing on Prothean which has been such a huge and integral part of the lore in previous ME games. Protheans who we all thought to be extinct and a mysterious race. And now that we finally get to interact with one, and go even deeper in the lore, it really excites all of us. But the fact that something as huge as this is a separate entity from the main game? That is the reason why alot of us are not happy. The fact that it is a day 1 launch does not help at all. It might have been taken alot differently if you guys had made this DLC similar to Zaeeds. Even then, Zaeed was nowhere near an important figure in the ME lore.

You guys have been my inspiration ever since I first played KOTOR. Ray and Greg are my idols, and they are what are aspire to be (on track so far) and as much as I have supported all your games, I have to say, cancelling that order for ME3 seems very tempting right now. Its just not done guys, this feels like having to pay for Pikachu, or Yoshi & Luigi or even Obi-Wan.

[DJStarstryker]

rumbalumba wrote...

$60 game with full content = consumers do not lose anything, Bioware does not lose anything

$60 game with a $10 Day 1 DLC = consumers lose one squadmate + one mission. Bioware makes 1/6th of the game's full price per download.


ISEEWHATYOUDIDTHAR.

No they don't. Sony/Microsoft take a cut of all DLC purchases on PSN/Xbox Live. So Bioware is NOT making $10 on the DLC. I don't know what the percentage is, but at a minimum subtract a few dollars.

[rumbalumba]

fropas wrote...


it's 10$ you big baby.

hey kid, having your mommy let you use her credit card to buy your toys doesn't apply to everyone.

Modifié par rumbalumba, 23 février 2012 - 08:23 .

[Derikari]

Prophetiks wrote...

Michael Gamble wrote...

 Mass Effect 3 is a complete . . . game right out of the box.
 

Wrong, and I won't be buying it due to this move. 

The Cerberus Network for Mass Effect 2 was well-implemented and perfectly reasonable. This however, is not, and I won't encourage this practice by buying Mass Effect 3 until this is changed.

^ This.

I don't agree with this business practice. I'll be cancelling my pre-order when I get the chance. The single player demo was crap. Dumbing down the conversation options just sucks so bad, even if it was apparently just for the demo. The weight system was appalling. It wasn't explained at all, I had to go online and try out multiplayer to get an idea on what the hell was going on. It would be common for people to just not bother with that, but that made me give you the benefit of the doubt despite some other misgivings. I was willing to put up with the spin offs apparently adding in new content and just vote with my wallet. I felt betrayed with DA "2", this is just enough. First you sell me a ****ty rushed game, now you won't even sell me a complete game on launch despite using the traditional business model. I'll join the minority and have nothing to do with you as TotalBiscuit regretfully called.

It's a pity. I love Mass Effect. I love the multiplayer, which I was skeptical of. I want to play ME3. I will not give you my money for an incomplete game.

As a side note for others, a big reason for day 1 patches/unlocks is to counter piracy/used games by rewarding players for buying new ones (developers/publishers don't get money from used games, which is why retailers are trained to push for them so hard). This is no way a reward for CE buyers as actual content should be part of the full game on release. This isn't even a way to identify "fans" as the place I pre-ordered from mid 2011 doesn't even have the collectors edition. This is a blatent act of monetizing an established practice that was supposed to ensure their product was actually sold and new in the first place.

[GuyIncognito21]

NubXL wrote...

I think a lot of people wouldn't be so upset if the content was different. Someone else said it pretty well on page 1.

Yuoaman: "So are the Reapers going to also be DLC? I mean, since they're as inconsequential as the Protheans to the lore of the universe..."

A Prothean being alive is a huge deal in the Mass Effect lore. It's very reasonable for someone to be angry about content as important as that to be cut for DLC profits. You guys should have made a much less important plot point into DLC if you had to cut something at all. This is foolish, and I have to believe you're not so naive that you didn't see the backlash coming a mile away. You're just begging for it with this decision.

Exactly.  Even if Zaeed had been paid DLC instead of free, that wouldn't have bothered me, because Zaeed's deal was only tangential to everything else.  The protheans are not.

The fact that the protheans are so central is exactly why people are upset and it's exactly why their story is being leveraged to get more money out of people.

[AlanC9]

Dave of Canada wrote...

So the "old" script from centuries ago had mentions of the Prothean, the new script has his dialogue and the initial announcement of it had mentions of the Prothean and now they're saying they made the Prothean after launch and some of you are actually believing this?

Won't speak for others. What I believe is that the plan was always to make ME3 and its day 1 DLC. When Bio decided what exactly would be in that DLC isn't especially important; presumably this was decided at the point of maximum convenience for Bioware.

Modifié par AlanC9, 23 février 2012 - 08:23 .

[Vendrium]

 I posted it before, I'll post it again - I'm currently conducting a simple survey to see how many people will actually get the game.

Please take a moment to fill it out: http://social.biowar...64/polls/28724/

Modifié par Vendrium, 23 février 2012 - 08:23 .

[Draconis6666]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

This goes way beyond the boards.I expect some reviewers will pick up on it too.

Still will likely not be enough to drastically impact sales, Without widespread news coverage in mainstream news sources the impact on the total consumer base is going to be very small, will it be enough to damage sales numbers? who can say it could very well be but its not going to be 50% or 70% of the consumer base up in arms about it like some people seem to believe..

I very much doubt ME3 will fail people are too invested in it to the level of dellusional. However once ME3 is done Bioware have nothing but a damaged IP in DA or something new. That won't have the same investment as ME so what sort of reputation they end up with will be very important.

I know someone posted TOR figures earlier thinking they were good. But 2 million sales and 1.7 million subscribers means 300,000 people have already left TOR. Even with a good ME3 release unless the game is near flawless EA may fold them.

MMO subscription to sales numbers are not a good judge of their success, expecialy not so close to their release. Continued subscription numbers is the only true way to judge success and it simply cannot be done after only 2-3 months.  People unsubscribe for multiple reasons not always because they dislike the game, expecialy with the economy still attempting to recover from the housing crisis and high unemployment rates there are many reasons some one may suddenly be unable to warrant the subscription fee even though they enjoy the game.... this is all beside the point.

Again you are correct about their reputation but there is again not enough evidence that this wil impact their reputation overal enough to destroy customer faith in their overall products. DA II did so because it was a horrible game by most peoples standards which is something that is much more obvious to the average consumer than an issue like this where most of them will not even realize it was an issue at all.  Its really too soon to judge one way or the other.

[Sable Phoenix]

heart again wrote...

neubourn wrote...

Sable Phoenix wrote...

I'm sure people have already posted this, but I missed it and I'm not going to comb through 100+ pages for it.

TotalBiscuit comments on the launch-day DLC and how it crosses the line of what is ethical and acceptable business practice.

This is a freaking Prothean, people.  They are cutting content that is absolutely central to the lore of the entire game universe, and then selling it back to us as if it were extra cosmetic content.

I agree with everything said in TotalBiscuit's assessment of the subject.  This is underhanded at best (which indicates to me that EA forced BioWare into doing it, but that's beyond the scope of this discussion).

Requiring Origin was bad enough... I only accept that because I know, with a little inventiveness, that I'll be able to make sure Origin is not actually required to run the singleplayer executable.  But this unethical business decision is a step to far.  I'll join TotalBiscuit in his boycott (which is for me, as it is for him, the hardest game-related decision I've ever made), and I encourage everyone else to do so as well, until BioWare changes this decision and makes the Prothean squadmate available to all new copies of the game for free, just like they did with Shale and Zaeed.

Problem with that stance is that everyone knew this was included in the CE for free since June. Thats 8 months that we have known about it, and people knew for 8 months that unless they had the CE, they wouldnt be able to get it...until now when BW announced that people would be able to purchase it.

So, imagine the uproar if it actually remained a CE exclusive? You guys are basically in a tizzy because for once, a CE item is actually WORTH having (nobody raged that they couldnt purchase Collector Armor for their Shepard in ME2), and BW is letting people purchase the content if they so choose. The irnoy is...if the content was worthless, nobody would care, nobody would bother buying it. But because its actually decent content, people think they are entitled to it, or that it "shouldve been in the game." Even though weve known for MONTHS that it wasnt part of the shipped game. 

Exactly.

"An exclusive squadmate and mission" is a rather vague statement that means something very different, in the Mass Effect universe, than saying "A Prothean squadmate and mission".

Don't tell me you fail to see the difference.

It's called a bait and switch.

[fropas]

rumbalumba wrote...

fropas wrote...


it's 10$ you big baby.

hey kid, having your mommy lets [sic] you use her credit card to buy your toys doesn't apply to everyone.

Okay. . .10$ must be a lot of money to some people. . .but not to me, because I'm a grown-up. and I don't tell people to go suck BW "junk". . .God, you really are a big baby.

[rumbalumba]

DJStarstryker wrote...

rumbalumba wrote...

$60 game with full content = consumers do not lose anything, Bioware does not lose anything

$60 game with a $10 Day 1 DLC = consumers lose one squadmate + one mission. Bioware makes 1/6th of the game's full price per download.


ISEEWHATYOUDIDTHAR.

No they don't. Sony/Microsoft take a cut of all DLC purchases on PSN/Xbox Live. So Bioware is NOT making $10 on the DLC. I don't know what the percentage is, but at a minimum subtract a few dollars.

because that's the point im trying to make, and is the single most important thing in my post.

/sarcasm

[neubourn]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
This doesn't make any sense. It's not important enough to ship with the game; I'm not getting it with my copy. To get it you have to get the DLC.

It's being released the same day as the game.  Whether it's on the disc or on a server somewhere is irrelevant.  The point is they got it done and out the door before the game launched.

Again, the big question is whether they'd have still made it if they couldn't charge extra for it.  

You seriously have no clue how DLC is made, do you?

Nowadays...pretty much every game Developer plans ahead for DLC. 

Take ME2:
there was space on the Nomandy for: Kasumi, Zaeed, the Hammerhead, a spot for your little N7 helmet in your quarters.

You dont think they planned ahead for all of that? That space was there when the game SHIPPED. It wasnt added later. 

DLC is integrated into the main game and planned for while games ar ein development. It not only makes sense in developoment, it also saves them time and resources.

Look at Fallout 3....they made all of their specific DLC packs acesible from inside the game itself, certain areas of the map were partioned in anticipation of future DLC. You dont think they didnt plan ahead?

[t0k3n98]

xx

Modifié par t0k3n98, 23 février 2012 - 08:27 .

[blindchaos]

Are the Prothean's that big a deal though? Wasn't the big twist of ME1 that the Protheans were just one of many societies culled by the reapers? I thought the interesting thing about Protheans was that the game built them up to be some ancient creator race, or precursor to modern society, and it turns out that their only significance was the conduit. The Prothean story ended when we used the Conduit for the most part rright?

[kingsims]

I honestly think if they made this free for the first week of launch then most CE owners would be happy

Most CE owners get the Lithograph, Artbook, Guns, CE Outfitpack, Shepard dog and Hoodie plus an awesome tin case (some CE also includes the soundtrack). Really guys the art book itself is worth $20-$15 brand new and the N7 guns, hoodie, Dog another outfit pack $5-$3, the Normandy lithograph $3-5. So EVEN without the Prothean character its still worth $20 (i would would happily pay this if the physical PC CE didn't run out).

[LGTX]

So basically the whole fuss is because we are judging the Prothean's role based on its species' exposition in previous games, with zero knowledge of the character's relevance to the plot of ME3 (PLOT. Not the lore)? 

Modifié par LGTX, 23 février 2012 - 08:28 .

[rumbalumba]

fropas wrote...

rumbalumba wrote...

fropas wrote...


it's 10$ you big baby.

hey kid, having your mommy lets [sic] you use her credit card to buy your toys doesn't apply to everyone.

Okay. . .10$ must be a lot of money to some people. . .but not to me, because I'm a grown-up. and I don't tell people to go suck BW "junk". . .God, you really are a big baby.

you wanna know why most people do not agree with your point? because most people =/= you. you just answered it yourself.

[neubourn]

Sable Phoenix wrote...



"An exclusive squadmate and mission" is a rather vague statement that means something very different, in the Mass Effect universe, than saying "A Prothean squadmate and mission".

Don't tell me you fail to see the difference.

It's called a bait and switch.

Well...if it bothers you THAT much, then they can go back to it being EXCLUSIVE, and you wont have to worry about being able to pay for it anyway. 

[foo man chew]

If people dont want to pay for content that should be in the game just wait and watch it on youtube somebody will always post it there.

[AlanC9]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
This doesn't make any sense. It's not important enough to ship with the game; I'm not getting it with my copy. To get it you have to get the DLC.

It's being released the same day as the game.  Whether it's on the disc or on a server somewhere is irrelevant.  The point is they got it done and out the door before the game launched.

Oh... so when you say "ship with the game" you don't actually mean "ship with the game." Gotcha.

Again, the big question is whether they'd have still made it if they couldn't charge extra for it.  

That's not knowable. An ME3 without the DLC revenue would have to have less content somewhere. Maybe Prothy's cut. Maybe Prothy's in and something else is cut.

[DJBare]

Vendrium wrote...

 I posted it before, I'll post it again - I'm currently conducting a simple survey to see how many people will actually get the game.

Please take a moment to fill it out: http://social.biowar...64/polls/28724/

Voted no, but this will be my last purchase as it stands, future purchases will depend on change in their business practice.

[fropas]

rumbalumba wrote...

fropas wrote...

rumbalumba wrote...

fropas wrote...


it's 10$ you big baby.

hey kid, having your mommy lets [sic] you use her credit card to buy your toys doesn't apply to everyone.

Okay. . .10$ must be a lot of money to some people. . .but not to me, because I'm a grown-up. and I don't tell people to go suck BW "junk". . .God, you really are a big baby.

you wanna know why most people do not agree with your point? because most people =/= you. you just answered it yourself.

I didn't even ask a question. . .I don't care if people don't "equal" me. I have a CE, so I get this content already. Good thing I have a mommy who loves me! God it must suck to be you