13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Draconis6666]

NubXL wrote...

I think a lot of people wouldn't be so upset if the content was different. Someone else said it pretty well on page 1.

Yuoaman: "So are the Reapers going to also be DLC? I mean, since they're as inconsequential as the Protheans to the lore of the universe..."

A Prothean being alive is a huge deal in the Mass Effect lore. It's very reasonable for someone to be angry about content as important as that to be cut for DLC profits. You guys should have made a much less important plot point into DLC if you had to cut something at all. This is foolish, and I have to believe you're not so naive that you didn't see the backlash coming a mile away. You're just begging for it with this decision.

This does not make the sense of entitlement any people seem to have that they should get it simply because it is a prothean and they personaly find it important anymore valid. Bioware is indeed at fault for not recognizing the impact that this would have, but that doesnt make the people who think that because its a Prothean they are entitled to have it at no cost either.

The difference in the initial statement is that without hte reapers the game itself would not exist, the protheans do not HAVE to exist for your war against the reapers to take place beyond their contribution in ME 1. They are a periphial element that is important to the overal story of the universe but not automaticaly important to the plot of the game itself. 

Even beyond that the Prothean's importance is not direcntly relevant to a single prothean's importance. He does not represent his entire race and all of their collected knowledge and experiences, he is a single survivor who has a limited personal experience that he can provide that may very well add nothing of importance to the actual plot at hand which is to STOP THE REAPERS, not to discover how the protheans lived or what they ate, or any number of other questions about the Protheans.

[GuyIncognito21]

neubourn wrote...

[You seriously have no clue how DLC is made, do you?

Nowadays...pretty much every game Developer plans ahead for DLC. 

You can continue to insult me all you like, it doesn't change the argument or help your side of it.

Take ME2:
there was space on the Nomandy for: Kasumi, Zaeed, the Hammerhead, a spot for your little N7 helmet in your quarters.

You dont think they planned ahead for all of that? That space was there when the game SHIPPED. It wasnt added later. 

DLC is integrated into the main game and planned for while games ar ein development. It not only makes sense in developoment, it also saves them time and resources.

Look at Fallout 3....they made all of their specific DLC packs acesible from inside the game itself, certain areas of the map were partioned in anticipation of future DLC. You dont think they didnt plan ahead?

None of that is relevant.  Whether they planned ahead doesn't matter.  What matters is that they're charging extra money for something that should be in the game to begin with.

If Fallout 3 started as you left the vault unless you paid $10 extra to play the vault part, it would be the same problem.

Whether they planned ahead doesn't mitigate the issue.  The issue is just about the difference between charging extra for core content and charging extra for superfluous content.

Modifié par GuyIncognito21, 23 février 2012 - 08:32 .

[LivingHitokiri]

neubourn wrote...

LivingHitokiri wrote...

G3rman wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...
I'm not assuming that in any way - I'm simply stating that there's no reason to charge us extra money for content that every player should be able to experience.

Correction.  Fans of the series would want to experience, someone new to ME3 won't care about protheans, it will just be a passing thing in conversation.  Not everyone cares about protheans and most definitely not about DLC.

This DLC is for the fans who couldn't get CE and want this bonus character or the people who just like to buy DLC in general for a complete experience.

What are you talking about.
ME3 stand alone storywise is incomplete,there is a reason why the new players are having a story recap of ME 1 and ME 2 so what you say above ridiculous.
Protheans are IMPORTANT part of ME plot/lore whenever you like it or not.

So by that logic, are people entitled to free copies of ME1 because protheans are "Important" part of lore? Of course not. 

Just because a story is important to lore, or has you revisiting a classic locale, does NOT mean you are automatically entitled to it for free.

Lets say for the next DLC 3 months down the road, it is a Keeper Squadmate and you visit Ilos again. Should everyone be "Entitled" to it because OOOOHHHH Keepers are important to lore!!??!!

You talk about assumptions which make no sense while im talking and stating facts about a game and the story that develops around it..

What you say makes no sense,no,im not using the logic you want me to look to use,thats yours alone.
They should never release such an important part of the story/plot as DLC. I have no problem if they give me something totally irrelevant like they did with Kasumi and Zaeed, they where both a nice addition to the game.
Bringing a living Prothean that goes all against the story's direction of their distinction is a different thing.Having a prothean alive it could bring tons of things into the story/plot rather bringing another Zaeed or Kasumi at this point of the game.

EA shows that they use a famous and important figure of the game in order to make money as sole focus, not to make another addition to the game that will work different/side/parallel story.

I have no problem them releasing DLC in general but not these kind of DLC just because it will draw a bigger attention to the fanbase due to its importance to the series.

[AlanC9]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

"An exclusive squadmate and mission" is a rather vague statement that means something very different, in the Mass Effect universe, than saying "A Prothean squadmate and mission".

Don't tell me you fail to see the difference.

It's called a bait and switch.

I fail to see it.

[GuyIncognito21]

Draconis6666 wrote...
 Bioware is indeed at fault for not recognizing the impact that this would have,

Of course, it could easily be argued that Bioware knew exactly the kind of impact it would have, and that's what motivated this entire aspect of the game.

It's a lot easier to get people to pay $10 for something they care about than something they don't.

[AkiKishi]

Sable Phoenix wrote...
"An exclusive squadmate and mission" is a rather vague statement that means something very different, in the Mass Effect universe, than saying "A Prothean squadmate and mission".

Don't tell me you fail to see the difference.

It's called a bait and switch.

Very true. The only reason this has all kicked off now is because people only found out because of the leak.

[AlanC9]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...
Whether they planned ahead doesn't mitigate the issue.  The issue is just about the difference between charging extra for core content and charging extra for superflulous content.

But what makes Prothy "core content"? Because you're interested in him? That just makes it a good DLC.

It sounds like the argument is that Bio should make only bad, pointless DLCs.

[G3rman]

I think people put too much emphasis on how important this specific prothean is. Its like saying a wooly mammoth or neanderthal would be so informative to have around and tell us all about the ice age.

He's just a soldier, not a walking encyclopedia on Prothean culture.

[heart again]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

heart again wrote...

neubourn wrote...

Sable Phoenix wrote...

I'm sure people have already posted this, but I missed it and I'm not going to comb through 100+ pages for it.

TotalBiscuit comments on the launch-day DLC and how it crosses the line of what is ethical and acceptable business practice.

This is a freaking Prothean, people.  They are cutting content that is absolutely central to the lore of the entire game universe, and then selling it back to us as if it were extra cosmetic content.

I agree with everything said in TotalBiscuit's assessment of the subject.  This is underhanded at best (which indicates to me that EA forced BioWare into doing it, but that's beyond the scope of this discussion).

Requiring Origin was bad enough... I only accept that because I know, with a little inventiveness, that I'll be able to make sure Origin is not actually required to run the singleplayer executable.  But this unethical business decision is a step to far.  I'll join TotalBiscuit in his boycott (which is for me, as it is for him, the hardest game-related decision I've ever made), and I encourage everyone else to do so as well, until BioWare changes this decision and makes the Prothean squadmate available to all new copies of the game for free, just like they did with Shale and Zaeed.

Problem with that stance is that everyone knew this was included in the CE for free since June. Thats 8 months that we have known about it, and people knew for 8 months that unless they had the CE, they wouldnt be able to get it...until now when BW announced that people would be able to purchase it.

So, imagine the uproar if it actually remained a CE exclusive? You guys are basically in a tizzy because for once, a CE item is actually WORTH having (nobody raged that they couldnt purchase Collector Armor for their Shepard in ME2), and BW is letting people purchase the content if they so choose. The irnoy is...if the content was worthless, nobody would care, nobody would bother buying it. But because its actually decent content, people think they are entitled to it, or that it "shouldve been in the game." Even though weve known for MONTHS that it wasnt part of the shipped game. 

Exactly.

"An exclusive squadmate and mission" is a rather vague statement that means something very different, in the Mass Effect universe, than saying "A Prothean squadmate and mission".

Don't tell me you fail to see the difference.

It's called a bait and switch.

You see, I haven't been living under a rock as far as this game is concerned.  It's been all but officially confirmed for many months that the mystery character would be a Prothean.  And I haven't even read the script...

[fropas]

AlanC9 wrote...

GuyIncognito21 wrote...
Whether they planned ahead doesn't mitigate the issue.  The issue is just about the difference between charging extra for core content and charging extra for superflulous content.

But what makes Prothy "core content"? Because you're interested in him? That just makes it a good DLC.

It sounds like the argument is that Bio should make only bad, pointless DLCs.

LOL No they should only do this for day one DLC (Zaed Masanni 2.0)

[rumbalumba]

fropas wrote...


I didn't even ask a question. . .I don't care if people don't "equal" me. I have a CE, so I get this content already. Good thing I have a mommy who loves me! God it must suck to be you

you go on the internet saying "it's just $10 why are you crying about it".


wow, what a mature grownup you are, talking about money like it's nothing. oh right, your mommy's credit card paid it for you so you don't care. brilliant.

[LGTX]

He CAN be a walking encyclopedia on Prothean culture but be completely noncontributing and optional to the main plot. That's the whole point, it's a lore expander, not something critical to defeating the Reapers.

[neubourn]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

neubourn wrote...

[You seriously have no clue how DLC is made, do you?

Nowadays...pretty much every game Developer plans ahead for DLC. 

You can continue to insult me all you like, it doesn't change the argument or help your side of it.

Take ME2:
there was space on the Nomandy for: Kasumi, Zaeed, the Hammerhead, a spot for your little N7 helmet in your quarters.

You dont think they planned ahead for all of that? That space was there when the game SHIPPED. It wasnt added later. 

DLC is integrated into the main game and planned for while games ar ein development. It not only makes sense in developoment, it also saves them time and resources.

Look at Fallout 3....they made all of their specific DLC packs acesible from inside the game itself, certain areas of the map were partioned in anticipation of future DLC. You dont think they didnt plan ahead?

None of that is relevant.  Whether they planned ahead doesn't matter.  What matters is that they're charging extra money for something that should be in the game to begin with.

If Fallout 3 started as you left the vault unless you paid $10 extra to play the vault part, it would be the same problem.

Whether they planned ahead doesn't mitigate the issue.  The issue is just about the difference between charging extra for core content and charging extra for superflulous content.

It wasnt an insult, i was seriously asking. Because you seem to be under the belief that all DLC is made way after a game is finished, and this is false. I am pointing out that in today's game development, they plan their DLC ahead of release, usually in conjunction with the actual game itself. 

I doubt BW will comment on this...but i can pretty much guarantee that they have even MORE DLC planned, and pretty much ready to go as well. 

And "What matters is that they're charging extra money for something that should be in the game to begin with" is also faulty logic, since it isnt up to US what should or shouldnt be in the game...that is up to BW. Just because YOU think it should be, doesnt mean BW should have put it in. 

[Draconis6666]

rumbalumba wrote...
you wanna know why most people do not agree with your point? because most people =/= you. you just answered it yourself.

It must be nice to be able to speak for MOST people, do you get a cool title and awesome sallary for being the mouthpiece for millions of people?

[AkiKishi]

G3rman wrote...

I think people put too much emphasis on how important this specific prothean is. Its like saying a wooly mammoth or neanderthal would be so informative to have around and tell us all about the ice age.

He's just a soldier, not a walking encyclopedia on Prothean culture.

It makes no difference what he does, he's a Prothean. The reason Shepard started this in the first place. The thing Liaras been looking for for half a century and thats not important?

[foo man chew]

If its like most of their dlc another ten dollars for a hour of gameplay.Maybe we can get some horse armor next.

[DifferentD17]

I am not entitled to anything, I should buy whatever they think is best and not complain about it. Hopefully this will happen with every Bioware series and Hopefully all other gaming companies will follow suit.

[GuyIncognito21]

AlanC9 wrote...

But what makes Prothy "core content"? Because you're interested in him? That just makes it a good DLC.

It sounds like the argument is that Bio should make only bad, pointless DLCs.

The fact that they're a huge part of this entire narrative.

And DLC neither needs to be bad nor pointless in order to avoid hitting at the core of the game. 

Undead Nightmare is a wonderful piece of DLC that has absolutely nothing to do with the narrative of the game.  The Fallout DLCs were entertaining and had their own points without altering the core narrative.

[LGTX]

Arcian wrote...

G3rman wrote...

I think people put too much emphasis on how important this specific prothean is. Its like saying a wooly mammoth or neanderthal would be so informative to have around and tell us all about the ice age.

He's just a soldier, not a walking encyclopedia on Prothean culture.

Whether he is important or not is not the point, the point is that development money and time went into making him when it should have gone into full game.

They could at least have the decency to make him free for all day 1 copies instead of money-grubbing like this.

They spent time and money developing the DLC well after the full game went gold. They have a right to charge it whatever they want, and if you'll choose to have the content, you'll pay for it. There's nothing indecent about giving non-CE owners a choice.

[AlanC9]

fropas wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

GuyIncognito21 wrote...
Whether they planned ahead doesn't mitigate the issue.  The issue is just about the difference between charging extra for core content and charging extra for superflulous content.

But what makes Prothy "core content"? Because you're interested in him? That just makes it a good DLC.

It sounds like the argument is that Bio should make only bad, pointless DLCs.

LOL No they should only do this for day one DLC (Zaed Masanni 2.0)

That's exactly what I was thinking of. I liked Zaeed just fine.... for free.

[rumbalumba]

Draconis6666 wrote...

rumbalumba wrote...
you wanna know why most people do not agree with your point? because most people =/= you. you just answered it yourself.

It must be nice to be able to speak for MOST people, do you get a cool title and awesome sallary for being the mouthpiece for millions of people?

you are either blind or illiterate. just read this 90+ page thread. i only see your name and other two duds defending this.

and for that, you get a cookie. 

[corporal doody]

all i know is...I PREORDERED the CE way back when.....this was advertised to be included with the CE. more reason to get the CE.

i have no issue with how BW is doing this. if they were doing (to the extent) what Capcom does.... i would be upset. This i am not.

[alterIncogn1T0]

Vendrium wrote...

 I posted it before, I'll post it again - I'm currently conducting a simple survey to see how many people will actually get the game.

Please take a moment to fill it out: http://social.biowar...64/polls/28724/

I responded "no", and I will explain why I said "no".

I pre-ordered the game in the interest of playing the game. To my benefit, I ordered the CE, so I had already been aware for EIGHT months that a DLC featuring a Prothean squaddie was promised to us.

What do I gain for boycotting an "unethical" business practice? Nothing, I lose a game. Sure I could wait a month or two and buy or rent it used off the shelf, but that's not what I really want, is it?

And I place "unethical" in quotations because honestly, there is nothing business-wise that is unethical in exploiting consumers desires. There is nothing unethical about releasing additional content on the same day as the release of the primary product. What IS unethical is believing that another group of people's work is yours to control however you wish. So long as people continue to have this attitude of entitlement, they will remain frustrated, and to the extreme, game-less.

[Draconis6666]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

None of that is relevant.  Whether they planned ahead doesn't matter.  What matters is that they're charging extra money for something that should be in the game to begin with.

Its not your decision what should be in the game if you want to make that decision go make your own game, your basicaly saying "you should have either delayed the game and added this in or cut something else during development so I could have this" simply because you want the character and dont want to pay for it