13369 réponses à ce sujet

[DJBare]

blindchaos wrote...

I have to ask, why is this only now an issue? We all knew that there would be a DLC character, because they were offering a Squad Mate and an accompanying mission with the CE. If this is about the principle then where was this

Because most were not aware it was a prothean, up until a few days ago I expected a generic squady, not a species that's been at the core of the game since the beginning.

[neubourn]

Empiro wrote...

neubourn wrote...
And this is the point....you guys dont care if content is "irrelevant" but if that content is something you WANT, you think you should be "entitled" to it, which you are not. 

If it is that important to you, then you are free to purchase it and have it add to your gaming experience. Thats how business works...if there is DEMAND for a product, then there is no reason why they shouldnt CHARGE for it. 

Ive used this analogy a few times already...Liara and LotSB. That also was planned from the inception of ME2. that also was important to ME lore. And yet people bought it anyway. The only difference was when they bought it. If you believe content is worth having, then you should expect to pay for it, instead of feeling entitled to it. 

There was a time when Bioware released free patches and content even years after the games came out. It made them stand out above other developers, and turned me into a loyal supporter.

I don't think I'm suffering from a sense of entitlement when I bemoan the fact that they've gone from company that goes the extra mile for its fans to one that -- as you say it your self, tries to charge money from me whereever they can.

Thats understandable. But you also have to remember that game development has also changed. It costs them tens of millions (hundreds in some cases) to develop a AAA title. BioWare and EA, like any other company and publisher are running a business.  So they have to balance what the fans want with making a profit so they can continue to make games. Sure, giving out free DLC will make the fans plenty happy, but it wont help their profit margins any. Combined with used games sales...and they could be taking a loss on it.

BioWare has taken their hits...DA2 is a good example, i think that pushed them into reality, and i can almost guarantee that DA3 will be a much, much different game then its predecessor. Same could be said abotu ME2 (to a lesser degree). While alot people praised ME2, it did have its issues...and i believe they tried to attempt to address them in ME3. 

[GuyIncognito21]

blindchaos wrote...

I have to ask, why is this only now an issue? We all knew that there would be a DLC character, because they were offering a Squad Mate and an accompanying mission with the CE. If this is about the principle then where was this thread in July? 

The principle is that core game content should not be withheld and repacked as DLC. 

We knew there would be a DLC character in July, but we didn't know the importance of that character (nor did we have any reason to expect, based on past DLCs, that the character would be important to the narrative).

[Draconis6666]

DifferentD17 wrote...

. IT IS DAY 1 DLC which implies it was ready before they shipped the game.

No it doesnt it implies that you have no concept of how production manufacturing or shipping works and nothing more, The fact that it is ready for release in a digital media form does not mean it was ready when the game was completed or sent to be manufactured and put on discs it does not even in some cases mean that the DLC was completed at the time the copies were shipped to distributors to be sent to stores in preparation for release. 

No people do not like to spend money they feel is unwarranted, and in the case that somethign was specificaly removed from the game 100% complete at the time the game was sent to certification expressly for the purpose of being DLC for sale on day 1 your argument would be perfectly valid. But you have no evidence that this is the case, or even a strong argument for it to be the case. You have only opionions of yourself and a few people that this is clearly so based on your own understanding of how things work. 

I would recomend that you take the time to do some reasearch into the different phases of producing a game, and into how many time games cut content, only to re-add it then cut it again or completely alter it, and how long it actuay takes for a game thats completed to make its way onto store shelves for you to buy from the day its completed and then see if you still feel exactly the same way.

[Empiro]

Draconis6666 wrote...

Your getting a complete game though, what your arguing for is more like paying for Madden and then complaining that there isnt a free optional 33rd team that they created that you think you should have because it interests you.

More like buying Madden and complaining that you need to pay another $10 if you want to play as the NY Giants or the Patriots.

[ilquaruxa]

corporal doody wrote...

MORALLY OFFENSIVE and UNETHICAL have been thrown AROUND alot in this topic. I Find THAT in itself OFFENSIVE!!!


for real people? i can understand some might be upset...but to go so far as to call it morally offensive (or corrupt) and unethical????!!!! they arent knowingly poisoning cows then trying to sell you the meat as hamburger patties!

freakin melodrama

Why? What is your argument? You haven't made one. Have you understood mine? You show no understanding.

[AlanC9]

Empiro wrote...
There was a time when Bioware released free patches and content even years after the games came out. It made them stand out above other developers, and turned me into a loyal supporter.

Weren't the later NWN1 patches only made possible by the Premium Modules DLCs?

[fropas]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

blindchaos wrote...

I have to ask, why is this only now an issue? We all knew that there would be a DLC character, because they were offering a Squad Mate and an accompanying mission with the CE. If this is about the principle then where was this thread in July? 

The principle is that core game content should not be withheld and repacked as DLC. 

We knew there would be a DLC character in July, but we didn't know the importance of that character (nor did we have any reason to expect, based on past DLCs, that the character would be important to the narrative).

How do you know it's core game content? Is prothy instrumental in defeating the reapers?

Modifié par fropas, 23 février 2012 - 09:02 .

[Draconis6666]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...
Then again dont pay them and go wirte them a letter explaining your dis statisfaction like a responsible consumer dont rant on the forums about it and expect it to actually get you something.

Huh?  So you think writing a letter on paper and snail-mailing it to Bioware is a more effective means of communicating my dissatisfaction than discussing it on a forum on which the developers actively participate?

 no but sending them an Email is which is what i ment. Its stilll a letter of dissatisfaction if its in Email form

[blindchaos]

I understand that most didn't know the character's race, though it was originally announced as a Prothean. However, the issue should be about DLC content, by claiming that it matters because the character is prothean, it implies that it wouldn't matter if the character is mundane.

If this is the case then the argument seems to me, that Day 1 DLC is only bad if it is something I want, rather then a more principled stance of all Day 1 DLC is bad. I mean no offense by this, and do agree that Day 1 DLC is a worrying subject, I hope I am being clear, it's kind of late my time.

[AlanC9]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...
We knew there would be a DLC character in July, but we didn't know the importance of that character (nor did we have any reason to expect, based on past DLCs, that the character would be important to the narrative).

We still don't know if the character is important to the narrative. I'll be shocked if Bio expends enough resources to make him important.

Important for the lore? Well, he'll probably be a pretty good info dump. But outside of that...

Modifié par AlanC9, 23 février 2012 - 09:05 .

[AlanC9]

fropas wrote...
How do you know it's core game content? Is prothy instrumental in defeating the reapers?

If he is I'm in trouble, since I won't have him.

Modifié par AlanC9, 23 février 2012 - 09:05 .

[Toasty-RF]

Yet again, I'll just wait until people have actually experienced the game with the Prothean squad member, before I throw a fit or something.
Though in either case, this is seriously lame. This has been planned for a year (we know due to the CE leak), and if the squad member does not leave an impact, it's lame, and if he does, selling him like this is seriously lame.

[Draconis6666]

Empiro wrote...


I'm with you on this. Heck, you could even take out Grunt (you didn't even need to let me our), Legion (same), and several other characters. ME 2 would still be a "complete" game.

I find it quite pointless to talk about "complete". A better word is "significant to the plot or lore". There, the Prothean beats out everything else. A Prothean artificat kinda drove the whole plot of ME1, and the collectors were the focus of ME2, so it's not even a close comparison.

Significance to the lore is true and cannot be argued though i would still argue that the Reapers are more significant to the lore than the Protheans are, but you cannot claim that the Protheans beat everything in significance to the Plot. The Reapers are the entire driving force behind the entire plot of the entire series. The protheans have been a useful mechanism for advancing that plot, directly in ME 1 and in ME 2 by being mentioned to be the collectors which could have been absolutly any random alien race and left the plot of the game unchanged. There is nothing to say that the PLOT of the third game relys on the protheans and cannot function without them, because the plot of the series is not the Protheans it is the Reapers.

[foo man chew]

You know forums are not just about praising a game right.There about feedback both good and bad.So why would anybody send a letter when they can come to the official me3 forum thats supposed to be here for one of those reasons.

[neubourn]

LivingHitokiri wrote...

Because it affects your choice in total different way than including an important figurine as DLC,having a prothean as DLC pretty much screams out " that you dont get this you missing things from the GAME* and EA makes use of this exact thing.
Having Zaeed and kasumi that got their own stories irrelevant to the main plot but still interesting makes me CHOOSE if i want it in my addition to the MAIN game.
Nobody demanded  this hence the outrage proves it,nobody demands to get downgraded and rediculed by EA's greedy policy.
LTB is indeed a good addition but its a SIDE story,Shadow broker doesnt even comes close or even will in ME series as protheans do. it is not even fair to compare it.
Many people try to exclude the prothean importance by saying that they finished in ME 1 and ME 2,but, people forget that this is a TRILOGY , ME 3 as standalone is incomplete,ME 1,2,3 are all 1 story,not separated,games,not separated timelines,not separated sequels.

I dont disagree. But you said it yourself: CHOICE. You still have it. 

They know what they are doing, which is why they did it. They know people would drool over this and want it really bad, if we didnt...then there wouldnt be a 100+ page thread on this subject. And you actually have the CHOICE to get it if you want, you have to pay for it. 

To me...that is how business is supposed to run. They announce OPTIONAL content...content you dont physically NEED to finish the game (a la "online pass" garbage), but because it is sometihng that people actually want, it should be free? You can still choose to buy it (or not)...which also by the way is a drastic change from it being "EXCLUSIVE TO CE ORDERS" like it was for months. 

You guys are mad because they tickled your sense of curioisty, but are asking you to pay to have it satisfied. 

[GuyIncognito21]

fropas wrote...
How do you know it's core game content? Is prothy instrumental in defeating the reapers?

Again, we can just assume it's tacked-on crap that has nothing to do with anything, but that assumption itself raises some tough questions.  Why add a prothean to the game and NOT make it relevant to the story unless you're trying to bait people into paying more?

You basically just end up back at the same place.  The fact of the matter is that there's no way they didn't understand the important of the protheans to this story, which means the only way for them to end up not looking unscrupulous is to flat out say that if they couldn't charge extra for this content it would never have existed in the first place.

[Brian.V3]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

blindchaos wrote...

I have to ask, why is this only now an issue? We all knew that there would be a DLC character, because they were offering a Squad Mate and an accompanying mission with the CE. If this is about the principle then where was this thread in July? 

The principle is that core game content should not be withheld and repacked as DLC. 

We knew there would be a DLC character in July, but we didn't know the importance of that character (nor did we have any reason to expect, based on past DLCs, that the character would be important to the narrative).

So if I can get the complete/full/best ending without "from Ashes"? How is "from Ashes" core game content? 

[Draconis6666]

Toasty-RF wrote...

Yet again, I'll just wait until people have actually experienced the game with the Prothean squad member, before I throw a fit or something.
Though in either case, this is seriously lame. This has been planned for a year (we know due to the CE leak), and if the squad member does not leave an impact, it's lame, and if he does, selling him like this is seriously lame.

Totaly agree and worth far more uproar than the issue that is actualy getting it in my personal opinon

[Nima55]

ok really guys... we are just arguing in circles here. neither side is going to convince the other until the game comes out. bottom line; eithe buy the dlc or don't your choice. now I say we stop this uselessness and get on with our lives.

[cryosoul]

im going to laugh my *** off when it turns out that, ya that prothian squad mate is about as important as zaeed was to to ME2. The only thing i can see it doing is giving you a more personal veiw of information we allready know. the only thing im curious about is did he actualy survive 50k years or is he a clone or somthin. but really people settle down its not the end of the world

[Evilelf007]

fatalmaverick wrote...

wow you really want that pat on the head from bioware. You're the type to yell 'GOOD JOB OFFICER' as he beats a non resisting suspect into the ground with his baton.

No, I appreciate a good product when I see one.  It's actually quite common for consumers to be thankful to the makers of a truly quality product!

[fropas]

Draconis6666 wrote...

Empiro wrote...


I'm with you on this. Heck, you could even take out Grunt (you didn't even need to let me our), Legion (same), and several other characters. ME 2 would still be a "complete" game.

I find it quite pointless to talk about "complete". A better word is "significant to the plot or lore". There, the Prothean beats out everything else. A Prothean artificat kinda drove the whole plot of ME1, and the collectors were the focus of ME2, so it's not even a close comparison.

Significance to the lore is true and cannot be argued though i would still argue that the Reapers are more significant to the lore than the Protheans are, but you cannot claim that the Protheans beat everything in significance to the Plot. The Reapers are the entire driving force behind the entire plot of the entire series. The protheans have been a useful mechanism for advancing that plot, directly in ME 1 and in ME 2 by being mentioned to be the collectors which could have been absolutly any random alien race and left the plot of the game unchanged. There is nothing to say that the PLOT of the third game relys on the protheans and cannot function without them, because the plot of the series is not the Protheans it is the Reapers.

I think everyone is assuming he does influence the plot though. So people are freaking out over a character who doesn't influence the narrative in an objective way.  

[AlanC9]

Draconis6666 wrote...
 There is nothing to say that the PLOT of the third game relys on the protheans and cannot function without them, because the plot of the series is not the Protheans it is the Reapers.

And even if the plot of the third game does rely on the protheans, it simply does not follow that a prothean squadmate is going to make much of a difference in that plot.

[corporal doody]

ilquaruxa wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

MORALLY OFFENSIVE and UNETHICAL have been thrown AROUND alot in this topic. I Find THAT in itself OFFENSIVE!!!


for real people? i can understand some might be upset...but to go so far as to call it morally offensive (or corrupt) and unethical????!!!! they arent knowingly poisoning cows then trying to sell you the meat as hamburger patties!

freakin melodrama

Why? What is your argument? You haven't made one. Have you understood mine? You show no understanding.

there is no need to for me to make an argument. Argue against what? Why others shouldnt be morally offended or see things as not being unethical? WHY? they are feelings...how you gonna argue that feelings are wrong..like opinions. And i stopped reading you post as soon as i saw morally offensive. CUZ that isnt a fact...but a opinion.

All im saying is....THOSE TERMS ARE EXTREMELY STRONG TERMS.....and with everything going on in the world....those are the ones being used to describe THIS?????   i find it laughable....you can throw in the "passionate fanbase" and all that...but i find it disturbing.

So um YEAH!!!