13369 réponses à ce sujet

[RiouHotaru]

Dionkey wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Dionkey wrote...

However, it was released FAR after ME2 came out and was clearly made post-development. This is what DLC should be, not stripped from the game itself. 

Uhhh, no.  There are several cut lines of dialog foreshadowing Shadow Broker, you have NO proof it was made post-development.

Yet NONE of that dialogue was used in DLC or game. All of it was clearly scrapped dialogue that was going to be used in the main game, but wasn't. It came out nearly 9 months later, man, I'm pretty sure it wasn't made pre-release.

Or it was placeholders.  Like Kasumi?  Seriously, there's NOTHING wrong with what they did.  Someone has already posted a link, but I'll repost the relevant information here because otherwise it will go ignored AGAIN:

Stanley Woo wrote...

Usually, DLC is developed late in production by either a different team or by some of the original team who may not be needed for the main game anymore. Writers and some designers, for example, are most needed at the start and the middle of production, and less so at the end of a project.

Because it is a bonus and an extra, it has a slightly lower priority than the main game. The main game has to be content-locked and the game sent for certification anywhere between 2-8 weeks before the street date. If a game fails certification, whatever caused it to fail must get fixed, which means the entire thing must be tested again. The game must be certified all over again from the beginning because the game on disc has changed.

During the certification process, some folks can be working on a day 1 patch or moved to other projects (they're certainly not sitting idle). They could also be working to finish the DLC that will be made available on day 1. Because it is downloadablecontent, there is no physical media to manufacture and distribute, which means the DLC can be finished closer to the street date. It still has to be certified, but the process is much faster because it is a) not on physical media and much, much smaller than a full-sized game. Appearance packs and weapons are compartively smaller and simpler than story and character-based DLC, and people and effort are scheduled accordingly.

So, like a meal order in a kitchen, the team tries to schedule things so that everything is finished in time to come out together. 

It doesn't get ANY more clearer than that.

[Ninjapino]

Kog27 wrote...

Ninjapino wrote...

I remember this being "spoiled" when the CE was first announced. It said something along the lines of it containing extra side mission and character, "The Prothean". They took that last part out pretty quickly, but am I still the only one that remembers that? Oh, well, no big deal. Since it's a side mission, it's awesome, but I don't think it's going to have too much impact on the game as a whole.

yep. its a blatant lie, wow

Not saying it's a blatant lie.  It was planned when they announced the CE, that's it.  Back then, it was just previously cut content that they decided to give to people who are willing to spend a little more money on the product and ordered it ahead of time.  Now it's availiable to anyone willing to spend the money. 

[Daywalker315]

Yuoaman wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

leondore wrote...

Well, I was just waiting for a reply from BioWare and I got it. Just cancelled my CE on Amazon, can't support shady business practices like this.

Charging for day 1 dlc is bad enough, but when that dlc adds content and story within a story driven game, it goes from bad to ridiculous.

You're kidding ... you cancelled a pre-order for a version of the game that would have this DLC included? You realize it started as a bonus to people like you and I who ordered the DLC and they're letting other people get it for $10 ... wouldn't you be a little slighted if the thing they said was a bonus to you and I for ordering the CE ended up being given out for free to everyone anyway?

You act as if Bioware and EA never intended to sell this as a standalone, that's just silly - they weren't going to develop a new character for people who pre-ordered a certain edition... I mean... come on now.

I'm sure they did have intentions to sell it as a standalone. That doesn't change the fact that it was marketed as a bonus to CE buyers. If it's a bonus to CE buyers it shouldn't be free to standard buyers. Simple. And BW capitalizes on the "oooooh" factor of a Prothean to people by selling it for $10. If gamers weren't so ridiculous I'd say it's a good business decision. Buy it if you want the lore and a new guy to blast baddies with, or don't if you want to save $10. Either way, you can still play the game and finish it and save the galaxy.

[Kog27]

Yes, it is clear this stuff was being developed all along with ME3 but theyre making you buy it if you dont get the CE? Horrible practice. The lying makes it worse.

[Habs25]

God, the internet is full of entitled, brave souls. Of course you know better than the developers, of course you do, you have an insider, the Shadow Broker gave you the information and that's how you know the game was finished as a whole then the DLC was taken out of it to be sold on release. You are 100% sure of this, and it makes you angry, you think Bioware, a great game developing company, ruined YOUR game. Well.... they pushed the series in the direction they envisioned and got many fans along the way, and now to end this storyline they produce some extra content, not crucial to the main story, but enriching and interesting nonetheless, something the fans would appreciate... except that for this extra, which people worked hard to create, tears and vulgarity are exchanged. Wake up call - this sense of entitlement and knowing better than the creators of the story is completely unfounded. Be glad you get a great game to play, made by people who care about it and who work hard to bring it to you, and who care about their fans. Stop making a fuss about some content being extra, it's not even expensive and it's extra - you don't need to get it, you can wait to get it, and if you got the CE then you're already getting it. What's the big deal? X dollars for content is meant for you to enjoy and enrich an already great game is not a big deal.

Merci

Modifié par Habs25, 22 février 2012 - 11:25 .

[mrbauxjangles]

"Hur Der Derp Hur Hur Der Darp Dar Hur Der Hurp Deeeeeeeeeer. I am Biowares ****, look at me guys Bioware loves me bacause I let Bioware rip me off all the time and beat me when no one else is home. I AM CLEARLY the superior fan."

[s17tabris]

Michael Gamble wrote...

- The Collectors Edition has been sold out in most places for some time now, and is becoming very hard to find (many players prefer not to purchase the digital version). As such, we wanted to make this content available so that SE buyers could also incorporate the Prothean into their game.

 

Thanks.

[Bocks]

Pre Order Bonus can be translated to "We want to charge people more and videogames don't cost enough so we'll just take out some content and make it exclusive"

[redsox95MB]

Atakuma wrote...

I hope this game fails, I really do. Leeching off your fanbase like this is disgusting.

#dramaqueen

[Patrickslaw2]

Uhhh, no.  There are several cut lines of dialog foreshadowing Shadow Broker, you have NO proof it was made post-development.

Oh really? Whats his dialog doing coded into the demo? I thought he was added after the fact.

[LucretoDrakor]

I wouldn't care about this kind of thing if it was some random character that they thought up... but its a Prothean.. something that we've been surely wanting to see since mass effect 1. How can that not be part of the main story at all it makes no sense at all to keep that from all fans of the game I'm sure most will go for the collectors edition or whatever digital equivalent I would myself but when I think about mass effect 2 Ziede was included as part of the free dlc everyone got but now their keeping dlc from standard users now.

[Aargh12]

Daywalker315 wrote...
A lot of game experience? A couple guns you wouldn't otherwise get in MP is missing a lot of game experience?
I can't even make a rational case to say you have valid points on that. Come on ...

Well, yes. Especially if whole system was designed so the DLC weapons were OP or were more than just simple assault rifle, etc type of weapon.
And player's will miss the experience (ME is a shooter after all) when DLCs will contain 50% of all weapons made for MP.
Weapons in games like these are one of the most important aspects of gameplay.

Modifié par Aargh12, 22 février 2012 - 11:26 .

[GalacticTHOR]

wrdnshprd wrote...

a couple of problems with this..

for one, whats the difference between this DLC and shale from DAO? right.. NOTHING. so why does this cost extra?

and yes, it DOES cost extra if we get the standard version of the game. because well, we have to pay EXTRA for the DLC.

when i buy a retail copy of the game (REGARDLESS of version), i expect the FULL game. and sorry, i consider a prothean, one of the most vital races in the whole ME universe, to be vital DLC. especially if its going to cost an extra $10.

i dont expect a soundtrack, artwork, and other vanity stuff (such as extra costumes and weapons) that comes with a CE when i go standard, but i DO expect the same game experience. and sorry thats just not the case with ME3. this is a terrible business decision on your guys part, and if it continues with your other franchises (like DA 3), you can count me out.

Also Shale was free to people that bought the game new, it was EA and Bioware's way of preventing the selling of pre-owned games. So forgive me Bioware but what happened to this mantra? I will get the game, but I am considering just waiting a couple of months and getting it pre-owned. A Prophean is an incredibly important role, and if it was made months after release and they sold it fine. I have no problem with buying a squadmate, i got Kasumi. As many have said the Prophean is in the leaked script, which means it does have a role in the story. To take such an integral character and release it on day one, this content was made to play on the fact that us long time fans will NEED to get it. Of course I am gonna get ME3 and I will get the Prophean, I just do not like how business has been handled Bioware, it just seems they have gone back on how they used to be. I hope I am wrong and I really hope ME3 is a success, mainly cause how much us fans have put into it. But a Prophean c'mon, you say it is an optional squaddie. But you knew that us long term fans WILL HAVE to get it..... It's a f*cking Prophean! Oh well I am over this whole issue. Still looking forward to ME3 just a little annoyed

[SovereignWillReturn]

Wow people. If you don't like it don't buy it. He said it himself, THE DLC WAS MADE AFTER GAME COMPLETION.

yeah, it costs money, BECAUSE IS WAS DONE BY A SEPERATE TEAM.

Yeah, It's an EA move, but they have done worse, At least it isn't 15 dollar map packs, or Horse Armor. We're getting meaningful and prolonging gameplay DLC. If you want to vent your anger, go beat on a pillow rather than being a five year old about it.

Hate creates hate, anger creates anger. Complaining isn't going to make things better, it'll make things worse. There's nothing you can do, so just step back, and chill, go to the party temple and have a laugh, or drink a nice bottle of rum. Let's just all chill and be happy and stuff. Bioware has worked for 10 years on this series, don't get all mad and flustered over one DLC. They deserve more than your angry ranting for just one grievance.

Gears of War won't even support your multiplayer servers unless you buy the 30 dolla season pass, games force map-packs on you just to play multiplayer. We could be in an Bioware-Activison relationship, it could be worse, so let's be optimistic. Please.

[LinksOcarina]

El Ejcovero wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

leondore wrote...

Well, I was just waiting for a reply from BioWare and I got it. Just cancelled my CE on Amazon, can't support shady business practices like this.

Charging for day 1 dlc is bad enough, but when that dlc adds content and story within a story driven game, it goes from bad to ridiculous.

You're kidding ... you cancelled a pre-order for a version of the game that would have this DLC included? You realize it started as a bonus to people like you and I who ordered the DLC and they're letting other people get it for $10 ... wouldn't you be a little slighted if the thing they said was a bonus to you and I for ordering the CE ended up being given out for free to everyone anyway?

IT IS THE PRINCIPLE WE ARE PROTESTING. TO HELL WITH THE CONTENT. DON'T YOU SEE? IF WE LET EA GET AWAY WITH THIS THEY WILL DO IT AGAIN. WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS UNETHICAL AND UNACCEPTABLE. Think my caps lock was on while I was shouting...

Your principle is misguided since they have been doing this for four games now, and are honestly better at offering content than most companies out there that do day one DLC or extra content that is locked out of the disk.

Get over yourself.

[packardbell]

I can't believe people are trying to justify this decision. I've bought every single one of their games and pieces of DLC, but a line has to be drawn somewhere, milking your loyal customers of a purchase that should be available to all is downright insulting and makes me want to cancel my pre-order right away... maybe this will be my last Bioware purchase until they change their business ethics.. or at least EA.

tl;dr: It should be included for everyone, I see no reason why it wasn't, ala Sebastian, Zaeed and Shale... all available for free for loyal customers.

[JEMEDAOME2]

mrbauxjangles wrote...

janeway11 wrote...

Texaboose wrote...

Wow - I've read most of the complaint/boycott threads, skimmed through most of this thread, read Mike's original post carefully, and conclusion: there's a lot of whiners out there.

From what I gathered, Prothy was going to be something extra for the fans who got in early and pre-ordered the CE.
CE then proceeded to sell out fairly rapidly.
Bioware, to make it up to those who missed out, offers Prothy, something originally reserved for CE, to be available on release day for $10 (so those who didn't order the CE SAVE $10).

Result. People **** and moan.

^
THIS!

DLC SHOULD NOT BE MADE FOR PURCHASE IF IT WAS MADE DURING THE GAMES DEVELOPMENT CYCLE ESPECIALLY WHEN THE DLC IS A MAJOR POINT IN THE GAME. II REALIZED CAPS MADE PEOPLE NOTICE STUFF MORE!

As I type the news is on  Main headlines seem to be  a repested war jounalist is killed in Syria while attemping get the truth out about the suffering of people there at the hands of what is a clearly brutal regime  makes our arguments about DLC seem really petty and stupid

[Dionkey]

TheOptimist wrote...

Except that if you looked for them, you could find sound files suggesting that the shadowbroker was originally going to be a mission in the game and was cut out during production.  Again, we've known (or atleast suspected) the Prothean would be DLC for MONTHS.  He has been planned as DLC since atleast the collectors edition became preorderable.  Whatever you think about day 1 dlc, he was not stripped out of the game on a whim in the last two months or so. 

  As I already explained to someone else, none of that dialogue was used in game or the DLC, so it was clearly far from finished or was going to be a line Liara said in the game itself. If the DLC is finished before the game is released, then include it in the game. If it isn't, then sell it as DLC.

That simple.

TheOptimist wrote... 

He is not critical to the game.  He is an important part of the lore, perhaps, but then, so is Kai Leng, and I have never purchased or read ANY of the ME books, so I know nothing about the guy other than what I've read here and on the wiki.  Reading those books is not essential to playing the game, but they do increase your knowledge of the lore.  Likewise, the Prothean increases your knowledge of the lore and the events in the ME universe, but he is not essential to the plot. 

Kai Leng is definitely going to be a vital part of the game, if not the antagonist. The Prothean is going to explain any questions we had about the Protheans, knowledge of the Reapers, and so on. Charging $10 is a ludicrous amount for this. Imagine if they didn't include Garrus, Vega, or another character without coughing up 1/6 of the game's price. 

[nitefyre410]

DJBare wrote...
 
And so begins damage control, hope you guys are on the ball, I think you got a big mess to clean up.

 

given how that  statement read and  considering the fact that files have been pulled from the demo...

they are not...

 That statement  was some of the worst  damage control I have seen... SMH.   You are right this is a huge mess  to clean up.  Honestly the best  thing to do would be to make a free for everyone like you suggested and give the CE  buyers the soundtrack even  instead which I think the should have done it the first place that way it equals out.

[RiouHotaru]

Michael Gamble wrote...

- The Collectors Edition has been sold out in most places for some time now, and is becoming very hard to find (many players prefer not to purchase the digital version). As such, we wanted to make this content available so that SE buyers could also incorporate the Prothean into their game.

 

You know what this means, right?  He was likely originally a CE exclusive

[Darth_Trethon]

WeWant wrote...

I love how mister Gamble sells the game.

"Real long terms fans have pre ordered the CE anyway"

"We did this to please our long term fans"

" It will be the best game ever"


Not bad, Mr Gamble, not bad. I give you 7/10.
Too bad that you fail to consider:

- Long term fans who are not brainless compulsive consumers. Who wait to be sure if the final product is actually worth it.
- Long term fans who do not care for online gaming, through don't pay for the online capacity of the 360.

I've been a BioWare fan since KotOR way back in 2003...there's never been a doubt in my mind that a BioWare RPG will be worth it and I've never been wrong in this aspect.

[Aargh12]

SovereignWillReturn wrote...

Wow people. If you don't like it don't buy it. He said it himself, THE DLC WAS MADE AFTER GAME COMPLETION.

Nope, it wasn't. Just read the god damn script that was leaked. Search youtube for new squaddie audio files. Or do some data mining on the demo.

[Ryzaki]

mrbauxjangles wrote...
DLC SHOULD NOT BE MADE FOR PURCHASE IF IT WAS MADE DURING THE GAMES DEVELOPMENT CYCLE ESPECIALLY WHEN THE DLC IS A MAJOR POINT IN THE GAME. II REALIZED CAPS MADE PEOPLE NOTICE STUFF MORE!

He's not a major point in the game. Not anymore. In old script he was in newer script he's not. Pretty sure in the finalized game he's not important either.

Though the developed by a seperate team bit makes me lmao. Yeah right.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 février 2012 - 11:29 .