13369 réponses à ce sujet

[foo man chew]

foo man chew wrote...

And the ce people are basically paying 80 dollars for content that should of been in a 60 dollar game.


Oh...so the DLC costs $20 now?
Yeah if you add in the guns robot dog and other stuff that was finished for release but thrown in as dlc.You dont actually think their not going to sell that stuff to everybody right.

[Sleek]

Who here is done with supporting EA/Bioware after ME3 ? Enough is enough with the DLC EA.

[Kreidian]

DifferentD17 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

but nothign was taken out just to make money you are simply claiming that they did which doesnt make it true. You are saying that most people will think as you do which is an arrogant statement to make and implies that you have a concept how millions of other people will decide given the same information as you.

It's not arrogant to say people don't like to spend money. YOU CLAIMING THEY DIDN'T DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE EITHER. IT IS DAY 1 DLC which implies it was ready before they shipped the game.

Do you even pay attention to what you're writing sometimes?
"Day 1 DLC implies it was ready before they shipped the game."

No it does not, because DLC development doesn't work that way. The only implication here is that clearly you have no understanding of how full games are made compared to DLC.

[Xellana]

neubourn wrote...

Xellana wrote...


I know so many examples, even from companies who are trying to milk their customers at every opportunity, where everything up to the release date is free. Take Starcraft 2 from Blizzard for example. They improved the game up to the release date, because in the time of fast internet speeds you can just release a day one patch for free, not for a fee. That´s just how I think it should be done, and I think 99% of developers have this opinion, because I don´t know of many who charge for things that were done before release.

DLC is a money maker for developers, so they are changing towards that business model.

Take Battlefield 3...same situation. They developed the "Back to Karkand" map pack before release, and offered it free to everyone who pre-ordered BF3, those who didnt had to pay $10 (or maybe its $15...i dunno, i had it free). 

So for those examples you can cite, i can cite just as many from game developers that are doing what BioWare is doing in regards to Day 1 DLC. 

wait. that´s not the same. You even said it yourself. You could get it for free! You cannot get this DLC for free. This has not been done by many companies as far as I can remember.

[Candidate 88766]

Draconis6666 wrote...

foo man chew wrote...

And the ce people are basically paying 80 dollars for content that should of been in a 60 dollar game.

Based purely upon your opinon and others opinion of what should be in a $60 game this is true, but your opinion is not what sets the value. It only motivates if you will decide to pay the value that is assigned to it. I  personaly do not agree wiht you. What you get for $60 is what was completed when the game was put on the discs. Antything else is extra and not something you or I or anyone else is entitled to or something that bioware is even obligated to provide at all. 

If you can show me proof that the prothean was 100% completed when the game was sent in for certification and could have been on the disc then I will gladly join you in your argument but untily ou have proof that this is the case its a weak argument. 

You cannot accuse someone of murder then when they claim they are not guilty say "well i dont believe you so you are" and that be enough grounds for a jury to convinct them. If you are going to accuse someone of lying then you need proof not opinions and until you have that I will continue to disagree with your statement that anyone is in some way entitled to this content for free because they have paid $60 for the main game.

Even then, Bioware isn't obligated to put it on the discs.

They need to provide a working product, and a product that contains $60 worth of content. I assume it'll work, but I don't know. What I do know is that, based on how much content ME1 and ME2 had and based on the fact that so many games nowadays have throw-away campaigns and a handful of MP maps, ME3 will easily have $60 worth of content on its two discs. They should give the consumer $60 worth of game, and chances are they've given us more than this. Just because something else was finished doesn't mean they have to give it to players if they're already giving us our money's worth. 

Don't get me wrong - I think they should provide everything they've finished on the disc - but they are neither obligated to do so nor are we entitled to that stuff. I just think its poor business practice to do so.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 23 février 2012 - 10:11 .

[Evilelf007]

To argue that From Ashes should be included for free as ME3 would not be complete without it, is like saying that when a movie is released in theaters, it's not complete because when the blu ray is released, you saw you paid for bonus content such as deleted scenes (or even worse... gasp, the blu ray is an extended version of said movie!).

From Ashes is just that... bonus content akin to deleted scenes at most, to just add a little fun to the already completed game.

[neubourn]

Xellana wrote...

neubourn wrote...

Xellana wrote...


I know so many examples, even from companies who are trying to milk their customers at every opportunity, where everything up to the release date is free. Take Starcraft 2 from Blizzard for example. They improved the game up to the release date, because in the time of fast internet speeds you can just release a day one patch for free, not for a fee. That´s just how I think it should be done, and I think 99% of developers have this opinion, because I don´t know of many who charge for things that were done before release.

DLC is a money maker for developers, so they are changing towards that business model.

Take Battlefield 3...same situation. They developed the "Back to Karkand" map pack before release, and offered it free to everyone who pre-ordered BF3, those who didnt had to pay $10 (or maybe its $15...i dunno, i had it free). 

So for those examples you can cite, i can cite just as many from game developers that are doing what BioWare is doing in regards to Day 1 DLC. 

wait. that´s not the same. You even said it yourself. You could get it for free! You cannot get this DLC for free. This has not been done by many companies as far as I can remember.

first of all...it wasnt for "free" since you had to have pre-ordered BF3. New copies still have to buy the DLC now. Only those who pre-ordered got it for "free"

Secondly, i am aslo getting From Ashes for "free" because....wait for it....i pre-ordered the CE in June. See the pattern here? Developers reward customers who pre-order, or buy CEs, or buy the game new. But they also make the same content avalaible for those who didnt, but want the content. 

[Draconis6666]

Dexi wrote...





But there's no evidence that the Prothean ISN'T an important part of the game. 
With 0 evidence counting on both sides, what do we have to make our decision with? The status quo of the Protheans in the ME Universe.
 
They're important. They are one central element of all three games, just by their lore. 
They were the ones giving the current cycle a chance by the whole Conduit maneuver. They were to ones who monitored races that would rise during the current cycle.

Their concept is the basis on which the whole ME franchise so far has been built. 

So, with no evidence to prove otherwise, what's Prothy's importance in ME3? Big. 





Lawyered. 

 

I'm glad you arent my lawyer then, The only element of the plot that are absolutly integral to the plot are the Reapers and Shepard everyting else is supplementary. Even this aside, the true failure of your argument is much simipler

The importance of the prothean race =/= the importance of Prothy. Even if you assume that the reapers cannot be defeated without massive interaction in some form with the protheans through their left behind technology etc making them crucial to the plot of ME 3 it does not make the prothean squad member any more important than elements that can be in game already without his existance. 

If you run into a prothean archive and learn everything they knew about the reapers then later encounter prothy his contribution to the plot in relation to the reapers is negligable because he will impart little to nothing you have not already learned without his existance.

Your argument is that there is no evdience to prove he is not important but at the same time there is no evidence to prove that HE himself actualy is important. (indeed if anythign the leaked script proves his unimportance to the actual plot of the game) So his importance is undefined because it cannot be determined either way.

[Deltateam Elcor]

I must say, that back in 2007 i saw mass effect as the next great thing since Star wars, trilogy wise.

Only to wonder if Bioware is the same company it was 5 years ago, now i know for a fact that this entire thing could have been a PR ploy, to raise awareness about the game.

But the worst problem here is, im not sure it is.

[DJBare]

135,785
21,095 likes, 916 dislikes

No one can tell EA/Bioware how to run their business, I certainly would not, I have no business training, but when dealing with mob mentality, it's best to err on the side of caution, saying they created the prothean DLC for the fans is just rubbing salt in the wound, right or wrong does not come into it any more, the damage is done.

[RiouHotaru]

Alright, I'll offer a compromise:

If everyone who buys the SE gets From Ashes for free? Then everyone who pre-ordered the CE gets discounted $10 (or equivalent currency) from their purchase. There's no way in hell the extra $23+ covers the entirety of the swag you get for ordering the CE.

Since From Ashes is listed as a part of the goodies that came with the CE, it has to figure into the total cost of the game.

[nightcobra]

Evilelf007 wrote...

To argue that From Ashes should be included for free as ME3 would not be complete without it, is like saying that when a movie is released in theaters, it's not complete because when the blu ray is released, you saw you paid for bonus content such as deleted scenes (or even worse... gasp, the blu ray is an extended version of said movie!).

From Ashes is just that... bonus content akin to deleted scenes at most, to just add a little fun to the already completed game.

if the blue-ray was released at the same time as the theater release and with new footage never shown in the theaters with both mediums released at the same time.

[corporal doody]

DJBare wrote...

135,785
21,095 likes, 916 dislikes

No one can tell EA/Bioware how to run their business, I certainly would not, I have no business training, but when dealing with mob mentality, it's best to err on the side of caution, saying they created the prothean DLC for the fans is just rubbing salt in the wound, right or wrong does not come into it any more, the damage is done.

there in lies one of BW's problems imho... THey have given into the mob mentality before..AND made it publicly known....now everyone with a beef wants to "mob up" and see if BW is gonna wimp out.

[Almostfaceman]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

blindchaos wrote...

I have to ask, why is this only now an issue? We all knew that there would be a DLC character, because they were offering a Squad Mate and an accompanying mission with the CE. If this is about the principle then where was this thread in July? 

The principle is that core game content should not be withheld and repacked as DLC. 

We knew there would be a DLC character in July, but we didn't know the importance of that character (nor did we have any reason to expect, based on past DLCs, that the character would be important to the narrative).

You have no idea what the narrative is, so you don't know how important this squad member is to that narrative. You're making a blind judgement, which I don't know how you'd expect Bioware to respect.

So tell us, how is this Prothean squad member so key to the narrative? Explain. That it would be fun to have him does not equal important to the narrative, btw.

And for the people judging the DLC or anything else by sound files in the game - guess what - every ME game has sound files in them that are never used, indicative of development changes or time crunches or whatever. 

[nightcobra]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Alright, I'll offer a compromise:

If everyone who buys the SE gets From Ashes for free? Then everyone who pre-ordered the CE gets discounted $10 (or equivalent currency) from their purchase. There's no way in hell the extra $23+ covers the entirety of the swag you get for ordering the CE.

Since From Ashes is listed as a part of the goodies that came with the CE, it has to figure into the total cost of the game.

basically returning back to what they did with shale or zaeed which was acceptable.

[Draconis6666]

Xellana wrote...


I know so many examples, even from companies who are trying to milk their customers at every opportunity, where everything up to the release date is free. Take Starcraft 2 from Blizzard for example. They improved the game up to the release date, because in the time of fast internet speeds you can just release a day one patch for free, not for a fee. That´s just how I think it should be done, and I think 99% of developers have this opinion, because I don´t know of many who charge for things that were done before release.

Blizzard could also have given you SC II and then offered the additional campaigns as free downloads but they will not do that either instead they will charge you full price for the game 3 times so you can play three campaigns. While there are plenty of companies that offer you free "upgrades" for theri games blizzard is not a good example.
Even in terms of MMOs Blizzard charges you full price for expansions when other MMOs like EVE Online have regular content updates that are completely free of additonal charge beyond your subscription fee.

A day one patch is not the same as additional content on release, fixing things in the game that could be improved upon is not the same as adding something completely non existant into it. 

[corporal doody]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Evilelf007 wrote...

To argue that From Ashes should be included for free as ME3 would not be complete without it, is like saying that when a movie is released in theaters, it's not complete because when the blu ray is released, you saw you paid for bonus content such as deleted scenes (or even worse... gasp, the blu ray is an extended version of said movie!).

From Ashes is just that... bonus content akin to deleted scenes at most, to just add a little fun to the already completed game.

if the blue-ray was released at the same time as the theater release and with new footage never shown in the theaters with both mediums released at the same time.

what footage is cut from a theatrical release isnt ONLY the choice of the directors/film creators. There is alot of politics that go into it. Most notibly...running time....rating issues.....and what not. DVD..unrated director's cut allow all footage....aka the director's original vision to be shown for those that CHOOSE to purchase it

Modifié par corporal doody, 23 février 2012 - 10:20 .

[Deltateam Elcor]

corporal doody wrote...

DJBare wrote...

135,785
21,095 likes, 916 dislikes

No one can tell EA/Bioware how to run their business, I certainly would not, I have no business training, but when dealing with mob mentality, it's best to err on the side of caution, saying they created the prothean DLC for the fans is just rubbing salt in the wound, right or wrong does not come into it any more, the damage is done.

there in lies one of BW's problems imho... THey have given into the mob mentality before..AND made it publicly known....now everyone with a beef wants to "mob up" and see if BW is gonna wimp out.

They either wimp out or lose credibility in their consumers.

They know what they have to do or they wont exist, because the consumers wont allow it.

[nightcobra]

is there any specifical reason for not doing it like it was done like zaeed or shale?
you'd think it would incentivate more buying the game new than this approach that incentivates buying the game used.

[Draconis6666]

DJBare wrote...

135,785
21,095 likes, 916 dislikes

No one can tell EA/Bioware how to run their business, I certainly would not, I have no business training, but when dealing with mob mentality, it's best to err on the side of caution, saying they created the prothean DLC for the fans is just rubbing salt in the wound, right or wrong does not come into it any more, the damage is done.

Those numbers actualy are very telling out of all those view less than 1/4th actualy bothered to like or dislike it. So either people are watching tht video 5 times or the vast majority dont even care enough to comment on the video one way or the other.

[Cainne Chapel]

cyric085 wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

cyric085 wrote...

funny thing is, they ripp off the non CE buyers for another 10 bucks,

while the jack sparrow edition has the complete game for free.

guess you didn't want those sales (and customers ) anyway

talking about screwing with your fanbase.

Bioware, you will end like Westwood Studios, Abandoned and Forgotten by your fans

How are you complaining that to CE customers (who are paying +$20 for extra content) are gettting a full game and SE customers (who are saving $20) aren't?

thanks for proving the point of all those critics

so the normal edition is not the full game, guess what thats why people are complaining.

people wouldn't care if its some random human or some 1hit weapons that comes with the CE.

Ah the very definition of a misquote, That statement was part of the larger sentence but thanks for that *shakes head*

The normal edition is a full game, the CE is a full game+bonus.  See the difference? A character is a character be it zaeed or a prothean or whatever, it doesn't matter as all they add is a BONUS to the gaming experience.  an extra topping on the desert if you wish.

The prothy isn't NEEDED is the key point here, just because you WANT him doesn't mean anything.  if you wanted the bonus character that badly, pony up for it like the rest of the "fans".  Otherwise you're complaing that you want something for free that others pay for which... is well dumb and not going to happen.  In fact be lucky its available day 1 at all and you dont have to way 30 or so some odd days for it. You can enjoy it for cheaper than the CE people are paying for (granted we also get other bonuses).

Honestly i think you'd find a way to complain no matter WHAT the bonus character was/is.

[kidbd15]

Question is not whether this DLC was made after the main game was made, but WHY?

Why was this content excluded from the main game, when clearly it could fit in so well, and was planned for? Why was this section of the game deemed not important enough to be developed in the main game? What took its place? Was some random side quest in the main game more important to include than a Prothean?

So the answer to those questions will most likely point towards a monetary reason for not including this in the main game. Bioware deliberately waited to produce this content after the main game was complete because they knew this would garner them more money.

Regardless of their intentions, my opinion of them has definitely diminished.

[Deltateam Elcor]

Draconis6666 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

135,785
21,095 likes, 916 dislikes

No one can tell EA/Bioware how to run their business, I certainly would not, I have no business training, but when dealing with mob mentality, it's best to err on the side of caution, saying they created the prothean DLC for the fans is just rubbing salt in the wound, right or wrong does not come into it any more, the damage is done.

Those numbers actualy are very telling out of all those view less than 1/4th actualy bothered to like or dislike it. So either people are watching tht video 5 times or the vast majority dont even care enough to comment on the video one way or the other.

Doesnt mean they dont have opinions, think of it as an opinion poll.

Ive never used the like/dislike system on youtube myself.

[ElementL09]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Alright, I'll offer a compromise:

If everyone who buys the SE gets From Ashes for free? Then everyone who pre-ordered the CE gets discounted $10 (or equivalent currency) from their purchase. There's no way in hell the extra $23+ covers the entirety of the swag you get for ordering the CE.

Since From Ashes is listed as a part of the goodies that came with the CE, it has to figure into the total cost of the game.

The N7 Collectors Edition is well worth its price even without From Ashes.

"
[*]Premium metal case featuring male and female Commander Shepard
[*]70-page hardbound art book
[*]Limited edition Mass Effect comic by Dark Horse Comics
[*]Fabric N7 patch.
[*]Exclusive 4x6 lithographic print of the SR-2 Alliance Normandy
[*]Additional in-game content including
[*]N7 Arsenal Pack - Bring the firepower with the N7 Sniper Rifle, Shotgun, SMG, and Pistol.
[*]Squad alternate appearance pack
[*]Robotic Dog for on board the Normandy
[*]Mass Effect 3 digital soundtrack."