13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Kevin Lozandier]

Sandoo wrote...

 I was a fan of bioware previous games. Jedi Knight, baldur's gate, etc ... I knew that I couldn't go wrong in buying mass effect 1 since Bioware were behind it.
I'm sad to say that it's not the case anymore. I love Mass effect and it's one of my favorite game ever but I feel that I get ripped off badly now. I feel we're buying 90% of a game and if you want the uber cool new char that we all dreamt of having, pay more $_$.
And you say it's for the fans. We, the fans, are the one who paid for all the Mass effect games, for all the DLC ! and yet we're the one getting f*ck*d on this one.
Thanks for rewarding us for our support...
And I know, you care about what we say, blabla. But in the end, it's Bioware reputation that will go down and I already know I probably won't bother with your next games. If it wasn't Mass Effect 3, I would already ignore you.
An angry player that loved and played  jedi knights, baldur's gate, Neverwinter Nights. Mass effect 3 will be my last game from Bioware, or from EA.

I was mad with the dlc of ME2, but they came free with the cerberus network. So I guess it was okay.
But this is too much. Paying for a dlc on day one is just wrong.
You're lucky it's mass effect 3. It would have been any new game, it would never get any success.

Disappointed. And I know I'm not the only one feeling that way.

This content is in the Collector's Edition, how does it rip-off the die-hard fans if they're the ones that will buy probably 90% of  the CE edition?

I believe this DLC was a' love-letter' to loyal of the series who always wondered what Protheans really look like and the alternate customes are likely old iterations or references to the concepts of the characters in earlier Mass Effects (Ashley, Garrus, Collosous Armor, maybe?) and what they were alternately going to look like from one of the concepts fans have commented on from the art books. 


I admit some series have felt like 90% of the game is with you while 10% is not. After meeting two Gaming CEOs in-person and actually asking them about the process, one of which was the  CEO of Activision , I can safely say it's likely not crazy to believe Mike with the assertion that this DLC was in fact made well after the certification process of the main game.

Day 1 content provides room for skeptism, I definitely can attest feeling that way about certain games. However, considering that this day one content is also included in the CE for free and is content I believe is obviously directed towards ME vets (along with the fact that the content would have been far more expensive in older DLC models they used in the past), that it isn't ludricously evil in implemented as you're attempting to feel about it.

[element eater]

i think they should just drop the price a bit. It would seem less like they did it as a blatant cash grab, it would show some good will, They would still probably end up making a lot of money. And people with the CE would still be getting it free stuff ontop of all there other things

[Draconis6666]

foo man chew wrote...

Day one dlc is not dlc it is content cut from the game to make a quick buck nothing more.And to the people who got the ce edition your getting ripped off just as much as the people who didnt get that edition.It was nothing more then a marketing gimmick your paying for the art book,patch ect.They just know people are more likely to pay extra for in game content.Its more attractive then making of videos to most people.If it was true dlc it wouldnt of been made before the game was released it would be made months down the road.

Saying the exact same thing over and over without any proof and an obvious lack of understanding of how games are made and how DLC is made does not help your case.

[NicoNazgul]

PouriaX360 wrote...

Michael Gamble wrote...

There has been a lot of discussion about the DLC offering but we wanted to clarify a few things... 

- “From Ashes” includes the Prothean squad mate, an adventure on Eden Prime, a new weapon, and an alternate
appearance for every squad mate. Note that these alternate appearances are in addition to the ones already advertised in the CE.

- The Collectors Edition has been advertised from the beginning as containing a bonus character/mission, but we were not at liberty to provide the details. The Prothean is optional content that is certainly designed to appeal to long-time fans, which is why he is part of the CE offering (the version many fans would be likely to purchase).  Mass Effect 3 is a complete – and a huge game - right out of the box.

Mike

 

What about Digital Deluxe Edition?

I Think is included in DDE too, but i'm not sure, i don't find any official reply about that. If u can conffirm that, please let me know.

[RiouHotaru]

jreezy wrote...

Kreidian wrote...

Michael Gamble wrote...

I've read all 96 pages of this thread. Contrary to popular thoughts, we really do care what you guys have to say.

Casey and I have explained how the development timeline on these DLC go, and in order to have our DLC flow with the main game, we do have to integrate the VO into certain places in the core product (Certain ME2 DLCs followed this same pattern). But there's a lot of work to crafting a great DLC, outside of the VO and script.

That said, i can tell you is that a team of of us poured our heart into this DLC after we had given all we could to finish the the ME3 game. We pushed hard because we wanted people to be able to experience this adventure on the first day, rather than day 30 or 60. We're proud of it, and if you choose to play it, I think you'll see that.

I really do appreciate every person who wants to give ME3 a chance (even if you're not happy with me right now!), and even without 'From Ashes' - I think you will be blown away.

Thanks for your support, and thanks for your feedback.

Mike

Hey Mike,

I just have to quote this and let you know that you still have a lot of support here. Those of us who understand what goes into making a DLC are really happy with all the work you've done and we're eager to get more DLC in the future from you guys!

Do any of you actually understand the work that goes into making a DLC beyond "it's not easy"?

You mean the amount of work they have to put in?  Yeah, we do.  Mike and Casey and Stanley have all explained the process to us.

[Confused-Shepard]

So give me one good reason I should purchase this. I would rather the Protheans remain mysterious and unknown than have Little Jacob from GTA IV lecture me on how things were done back in his day

[Cainne Chapel]

Noobie wrote...

As long as ME3 is not on steam, I won't get it. I will just pirate it. All my friends are doing that too. Who cares about the multiplayer? Multiplayer will fail after 1-2month after it release. Really disappointing about EA games nowadays. All the games is Origin works. Won't buy a single game that require Origin, even it's a huge game or whatever. Will just pirate every single game that EA release. Used to like EA games very much, wanted to buy Syndicate and Kingdom of Amalur , but its on Origin, so not buying it, just going to pirate them. Trust me, put them to Steam and it will sell like hotcakes. After all this comment/reply saying they not going to buy cause of Origin, why can you guys be smart a bit? Guys, google it, google 'Mass effect 3 requires Origin' look at the amount of people hate it, amount of comments that they do not want to buy because of Origin. Look at Battlefield 3, forums are selling the account with Battlefield 3 costing around 5 Dollar, legit keys costing around 10 Dollar. Think twice EA games.

yes because the best way to voice your displeasure is theft! that'll show em! 

We all know if we can't pay our kind Valve overlords then theft is the next best option! No steam? We steal!

Really? Thats your argument? I have both steam and origin and honestly they're both interchangeable to me at this point. 

I wont get into the whole right/wrong semantics but, I just dont take you seriously enough to even care with that kind of argument.

You do know Steam wasn't/isn't universally loved when it came out or now either right?

[nightcobra]

if it was handled like it was with zaeed and shale i'd have no problem with it, but as it stands this DLC practice just feels...wrong to me.

[OdanUrr]

Mister Mida wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Apparently you didn't even bother to read the previous one or two pages before you posted so I'll sum it up for you: it wasn't officially known and people should not be expected to find out otherwise.

Right. You mean like how MP wasn't officially announced so it was easy to dismiss?

I mean it wasn't officially announced the squadmate would be a Prothean or that we'd be returning to Eden Prime. In fact, the "June spoiler" was rectified and dismissed as a mistake what led a lot of people to believe (myself included) that the Prothean squadmate would not be, in fact, the bonus squadmate for the CE.

[Dexi]

Draconis6666 wrote...

Dexi wrote...





But there's no evidence that the Prothean ISN'T an important part of the game. 
With 0 evidence counting on both sides, what do we have to make our decision with? The status quo of the Protheans in the ME Universe.
 
They're important. They are one central element of all three games, just by their lore. 
They were the ones giving the current cycle a chance by the whole Conduit maneuver. They were to ones who monitored races that would rise during the current cycle.

Their concept is the basis on which the whole ME franchise so far has been built. 

So, with no evidence to prove otherwise, what's Prothy's importance in ME3? Big. 





Lawyered. 

 

I'm glad you arent my lawyer then, The only element of the plot that are absolutly integral to the plot are the Reapers and Shepard everyting else is supplementary. 

Flawed statement; you cannot divide plot elements into "absolutely integral" and the rest, as that would imply you could build ME3 story with just the Reapers and Shepard. 
And you can not. Or even if you could, it would be of no consistency or quality. To thoroughly end the saga you need all the elements built up to the current point, you need Liara, you need EDI, you need the Normandy, you need Cerberus, you need the relationships Shepard has built in the previous games, and the basis on which the events, the basic FOUNDATIOON on which the whole story was created: this cycle has a fighting chance ( thus the story of the ME saga being rendered relevant) because of the Protheans.

The importance of the prothean race =/= the importance of Prothy. Even if you assume that the reapers cannot be defeated without massive interaction in some form with the protheans through their left behind technology etc making them crucial to the plot of ME 3 it does not make the prothean squad member any more important than elements that can be in game already without his existance. 

And how would that work, for the purpose of the discussion? 
As the story holds from the leaks and the confirmations so far, we can safely say that we KNOW ( not assume) the Reapers will be beaten by massive ( you can call it like that ) interaction with some form of the protheans. 

How does that mean that Prothy is important? Well we agreed ( at least until the response is given) that the prothean will hold a major plot importance of ME3, and even if they wouldn't, their sheer lore importance would still make them significant. The Protheans, as a whole, are of tremendeous importance, and Prothy is one of them ( obviously). It would make him important because interaction with him is logically much more valued than 
any kind of plot element Bioware adds, regarding protheans. It's a freakin' living Prothean! 

Of course, this importance can be downplayed, shrinked, and then you could safely say he's insignificant. 
Saying that Prothy isn't more important than elements that CAN be in game already WITHOUT his existance, is a game winner, if you're arguing whether he should exist or not, as you project the discussion in a comparison which has to one side the possibility of his non-existence. 
But we know that he exists, so you cannot make an arguement around "look, prothean elements can be important in the game without his existence", as that proves nothing? 

If you run into a prothean archive and learn everything they knew about the reapers then later encounter prothy his contribution to the plot in relation to the reapers is negligable because he will impart little to nothing you have not already learned without his existance. 

As I already explained, this would shrink his importance, it would deliberately downplay his signifcance, to the point he isn't required. Then, for the purpose of this thread, why add him?

Well, he's a freaking living Prothean and people will milk themselves to have him. And, as foreshadowed in the previous sentence, he would still be of tremendous importance. A creature from ancient times, whose existence started more than 50.000 years ago, in our present time. His story, how he got here and what's his purpose would still be of great importance for the ME Universe.

And, after all, what is his purpose? 
If he is not needed to defeat the Reapers, if we can learn everything from archives, what's his plot significance? Why Bioware made him exist? 

Because, obviously, it doesn't work like that. He is of importance. Otherwise why would Bioware pull out of their asses something bordering a shenanigan? 

Your argument is that there is no evdience to prove he is not important but at the same time there is no evidence to prove that HE himself actualy is important.  

And your argument fights in the direction disproving of his existence altogether, not his importance. 

As I already stated, the status quo of his existence makes him important. 

Modifié par Dexi, 23 février 2012 - 11:20 .

[Rockworm503]

Draconis6666 wrote...

foo man chew wrote...

Day one dlc is not dlc it is content cut from the game to make a quick buck nothing more.And to the people who got the ce edition your getting ripped off just as much as the people who didnt get that edition.It was nothing more then a marketing gimmick your paying for the art book,patch ect.They just know people are more likely to pay extra for in game content.Its more attractive then making of videos to most people.If it was true dlc it wouldnt of been made before the game was released it would be made months down the road.

Saying the exact same thing over and over without any proof and an obvious lack of understanding of how games are made and how DLC is made does not help your case.

And you constantly defending it like we should be paying 20 bucks and begging them to charge more doesn't help yours.

[RiouHotaru]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

if it was handled like it was with zaeed and shale i'd have no problem with it, but as it stands this DLC practice just feels...wrong to me.

So it feels wrong that they want money for something they put work into after the game was done and pushed themselves to get done on release date?

[GMOSinc]

Mister Mida wrote...

I'm not gonna read over a hundred pages so I'm gonna ask this regardless if someone already answered it: Why are people moaning about this just now, while this was known ever since the CE (and other special editions) was announced?

Because it got press-covarage in the last few days do to an issue with it appearing on Xbox LIVE early.

I'm as of yet undecided on wether I'll purchase Mass Effect 3 at release or even at al . I went ahead and cancelled my pre-order. Partly because of non-sense like this, lack of time and still needing to finish both 1 & 2 since my saves got eaten.

*Shrug*

[Cainne Chapel]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

foo man chew wrote...

Day one dlc is not dlc it is content cut from the game to make a quick buck nothing more.And to the people who got the ce edition your getting ripped off just as much as the people who didnt get that edition.It was nothing more then a marketing gimmick your paying for the art book,patch ect.They just know people are more likely to pay extra for in game content.Its more attractive then making of videos to most people.If it was true dlc it wouldnt of been made before the game was released it would be made months down the road.

Saying the exact same thing over and over without any proof and an obvious lack of understanding of how games are made and how DLC is made does not help your case.

And you constantly defending it like we should be paying 20 bucks and begging them to charge more doesn't help yours.

Not begging to pay more here, but i'm quite content with what I AM getting for that additional $20, i'm sure most of the people who anted up for it are too or otherwise they wouldn't have. Simple.   You always have to weigh the costs of anything you buy. The extra $20 for ME N7 was chump change to me in the greater scheme of things because I know I'll get $80 of enjoyment out of it.

[OdanUrr]

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

This content is in the Collector's Edition, how does it rip-off the die-hard fans if they're the ones that will buy probably 90% of  the CE edition?

I believe this DLC was a' love-letter' to loyal of the series who always wondered what Protheans really look like and the alternate customes are likely old iterations or references to the concepts of the characters in earlier Mass Effects (Ashley, Garrus, Collosous Armor, maybe?) and what they were alternately going to look like from one of the concepts fans have commented on from the art books. 


I admit some series have felt like 90% of the game is with you while 10% is not. After meeting two Gaming CEOs in-person and actually asking them about the process, one of which was the  CEO of Activision , I can safely say it's likely not crazy to believe Mike with the assertion that this DLC was in fact made well after the certification process of the main game.

Day 1 content provides room for skeptism, I definitely can attest feeling that way about certain games. However, considering that this day one content is also included in the CE for free and is content I believe is obviously directed towards ME vets (along with the fact that the content would have been far more expensive in older DLC models they used in the past), that it isn't ludricously evil in implemented as you're attempting to feel about it.

Probability is not certainty.

By your definition, if I don't buy the CE, I'm not a loyal fan of the series nor a ME vet. That's a very dangerous path to tread.

[Kevin Lozandier]

RiouHotaru wrote...

 Posting again for prosterity:


 Alright, based on what we know, and Casey/Mike's comments, here's my educated estimation of Prothy's development timeline, which is consistent with the information presented to us:

(Note this is all speculation, but backed by the information currently available to us)

- At some point during ME's development, the team comes up with an idea to have a Prothean appear as a character central to the plot, and dialog/events/etc. are written into the script (This matches the first leak)

- However, at some point during development, the team realizes they cannot develop Prothy enough to work him into the game and still meet their deadline.  In the interests of meeting their deadline, Prothy is cut from the script (For reference, Deus Ex: HR has TWO whole hubs cut due to development deadlines)

- Not willing to simply discard a character they worked on, they decide to set him aside as bonus content, and focus on the core content.  VA work was likely done either at this point, or during a later point.

- A second script is made, in which the portions of the game in which Prothy was plot-critical are rewritten so that his presence isn't mandatory for the story to proceed (the second leak), thus fixing the problem of him being plot-critical.

- A decision is made to put Prothy in as a part of the CE grab-bag, which is leaked a touch too early (The June spoiler)

- January comes around.  With ME3 having reached it's final stage and with certification underway/finished, the team turns to focus on work on the still unfinished From Ashes DLC

- A decision is made to push development forward.  Likely under normal circumstances the DLC could've been done and certified in time for the CE's release, but in the interests of making sure their entire community can recieve it on day 1, RATHER than having everyone else who didn't get the CE wait 30 or 60 days, the team puts the pedal to the metal and finishes From Ashes in Feburary.

- Since Prothy is bonus content, Bioware puts the price at $10 worth of points (800 points I believe)

- From Ashes is somehow leaked onto the XBL marketplace (MS has such crappy security) and the fanbase explodes upon learning of his existence.

- Cue the current sh*tstorm on the forum

The ironic part?  Bioware's own desire to have Prothy done and certified in time for release (Rather than have him waiting for everyone who didn't get a CE on day 30 or 60, as Mike said) has somehow backfired and exploded on their own face, because people believe they are entitled to it for free, despite the obvious claim that Prothy is DLC, aka bonus content. 

Based on what I know about game development from talking to actual game devs and game company CEOs, that's not far-fetched at all...

[Dexi]

wrote by mistake. 

Modifié par Dexi, 23 février 2012 - 11:20 .

[Brian.V3]

Confused-Shepard wrote...

So give me one good reason I should purchase this. I would rather the Protheans remain mysterious and unknown than have Little Jacob from GTA IV lecture me on how things were done back in his day

Nostalgia and the fan service. That's everyone who are complaining but still want this DLC reason.  

[Rockworm503]

RiouHotaru wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

if it was handled like it was with zaeed and shale i'd have no problem with it, but as it stands this DLC practice just feels...wrong to me.

So it feels wrong that they want money for something they put work into after the game was done and pushed themselves to get done on release date?

This logic its like any patches for the game should cost money because you know its only fair that they get moneys for their hard work.

Is the 60 dollars that we give them for the full game just simply not enough anymore?
I have to feel guilty for not buying all the DLC?  I need to be reminded that these guys worked hard?  And people wonder why the fanboy titled is thrown around so much.

[Xellana]

Draconis6666 wrote...

Xellana wrote...

yes. we are on the correct path I think You partially agreed with me there (which is a major achievement for me ) and I have to agree with you there completely.

To continue with your argument: I think the reason I don´t like these kind of DLCs is that I don´t like buying DLCs at all. I want to buy the game and that´s it. DLCs that don´t feel optional and fill obvious wholes in the story (e.g. Shadow Broker) feel like they force me to buy it, which i really don´t like

Thats an attitude that is very common and expecialy so among people who grew up with games before the age of DLC. The problem is that Before DLC people never saw cut content it just disapeared completely. Now that DLC exists this content is provided to people after the fact and it creates the feeling that somehow these are things that were left out of the game and the game is not complete without them. Which is in a way true you are getting a more complete form of the game by having them, but the value of the game you paid for is no less than it was 10 years ago when DLC did not exist and that content would have just been cut and thrown away.

The only way you would get that content is if the developer decided to extend their deadline and run over so that they can ensure that content makes it into the release of the game. There is no reason they could not do that now, let the games cost longer to make and in return just jack the prices on all their games up $10-20 forcing you to pay more for the game regardless of if you care about the content that was included for that inflated price or not. The question is would you feel more comfortable with this than you do being offered optional DLC that you can chose not to buy even if you feel doing so somehow lessens your experience, this of course has no right or wrong answer because its personal taste. 

Developers and Publishers however obviously feel that the majority of their customers would prefer to be offered optional DLC that they can chose to ignore rather than inflated prices on the base unit of the game in return for that content.

You´re right. It is personal taste. For me it feels the same if I have to buy a game for 70 Euro or if I have to buy the game for 50 Euro and pay 20 Euro for DLC that feels vital to the lore to me.

In both scenarios I would be unhappy because I feel that this is too much money for one computer game for me to buy it.

[JRCHOharry]

Cool! Looking forward to it.

[mjharper]

I don't really want to get involved in this discussion, but I wonder how much of the problem is down to names?

What would have happened if, instead of 'Collector's Edition' Bioware had called it the 'Fan Edition', or 'Full Edition', or even 'Standard Edition'; and if instead of 'Standard Edition' they called the cheaper set the 'Casual Edition' or 'Budget Edition'?

[RiouHotaru]

Rockworm503 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

if it was handled like it was with zaeed and shale i'd have no problem with it, but as it stands this DLC practice just feels...wrong to me.

So it feels wrong that they want money for something they put work into after the game was done and pushed themselves to get done on release date?

This logic its like any patches for the game should cost money because you know its only fair that they get moneys for their hard work.

Is the 60 dollars that we give them for the full game just simply not enough anymore?
I have to feel guilty for not buying all the DLC?  I need to be reminded that these guys worked hard?  And people wonder why the fanboy titled is thrown around so much.

That's a world of difference between a patch to fix bugs, and optional bonus content, good sir.

[Kevin Lozandier]

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

 Posting again for prosterity:


 Alright, based on what we know, and Casey/Mike's comments, here's my educated estimation of Prothy's development timeline, which is consistent with the information presented to us:

(Note this is all speculation, but backed by the information currently available to us)

- At some point during ME's development, the team comes up with an idea to have a Prothean appear as a character central to the plot, and dialog/events/etc. are written into the script (This matches the first leak)

- However, at some point during development, the team realizes they cannot develop Prothy enough to work him into the game and still meet their deadline.  In the interests of meeting their deadline, Prothy is cut from the script (For reference, Deus Ex: HR has TWO whole hubs cut due to development deadlines)

- Not willing to simply discard a character they worked on, they decide to set him aside as bonus content, and focus on the core content.  VA work was likely done either at this point, or during a later point.

- A second script is made, in which the portions of the game in which Prothy was plot-critical are rewritten so that his presence isn't mandatory for the story to proceed (the second leak), thus fixing the problem of him being plot-critical.

- A decision is made to put Prothy in as a part of the CE grab-bag, which is leaked a touch too early (The June spoiler)

- January comes around.  With ME3 having reached it's final stage and with certification underway/finished, the team turns to focus on work on the still unfinished From Ashes DLC

- A decision is made to push development forward.  Likely under normal circumstances the DLC could've been done and certified in time for the CE's release, but in the interests of making sure their entire community can recieve it on day 1, RATHER than having everyone else who didn't get the CE wait 30 or 60 days, the team puts the pedal to the metal and finishes From Ashes in Feburary.

- Since Prothy is bonus content, Bioware puts the price at $10 worth of points (800 points I believe)

- From Ashes is somehow leaked onto the XBL marketplace (MS has such crappy security) and the fanbase explodes upon learning of his existence.

- Cue the current sh*tstorm on the forum

The ironic part?  Bioware's own desire to have Prothy done and certified in time for release (Rather than have him waiting for everyone who didn't get a CE on day 30 or 60, as Mike said) has somehow backfired and exploded on their own face, because people believe they are entitled to it for free, despite the obvious claim that Prothy is DLC, aka bonus content. 

Based on what I know about game development from talking to actual game devs and game company CEOs, that's not far-fetched at all...

No, but I can see that be interpreted; I could have done better to say something along the likes of 'love the series enough to be put yourself in the best position to get content outside the main game to satisify your love for the series', but thought to not make a wordy response even more wordy and said 'loyal'. 

My point was implying that if you want to get the best opportunity to learn more or experience more of a series that not necessarily key to the series continuation but can be pretty damn cool, you buy the Collector's Edition. With that definition, ME's Collector's Edition with this DLC meets that. I would argue, as far as, that is concerned it's one of the better Collector's Editions you can have for its genre for a pretty long time. 

Modifié par Kevin Lozandier, 23 février 2012 - 11:23 .

[OdanUrr]

mjharper wrote...

I don't really want to get involved in this discussion, but I wonder how much of the problem is down to names?

What would have happened if, instead of 'Collector's Edition' Bioware had called it the 'Fan Edition', or 'Full Edition', or even 'Standard Edition'; and if instead of 'Standard Edition' they called the cheaper set the 'Casual Edition' or 'Budget Edition'?

That would have made the matter worse.