13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Ninjapino]

Again, does NOBODY here realize how much content normally gets cut from these games? DLC is just a way for Bioware to justify extra content that they wanted to put in that isn't essential to the final product and would have pushed their production budget. It still cost them more to make, but they know they'll make it up by people who are willing to spend the extra cash. Making games is EXPENSIVE. They don't just create a new level and character and it's magically the same price to make if it had been without it.

[Daywalker315]

El Ejcovero wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

leondore wrote...

Well, I was just waiting for a reply from BioWare and I got it. Just cancelled my CE on Amazon, can't support shady business practices like this.

Charging for day 1 dlc is bad enough, but when that dlc adds content and story within a story driven game, it goes from bad to ridiculous.

You're kidding ... you cancelled a pre-order for a version of the game that would have this DLC included? You realize it started as a bonus to people like you and I who ordered the DLC and they're letting other people get it for $10 ... wouldn't you be a little slighted if the thing they said was a bonus to you and I for ordering the CE ended up being given out for free to everyone anyway?

IT IS THE PRINCIPLE WE ARE PROTESTING. TO HELL WITH THE CONTENT. DON'T YOU SEE? IF WE LET EA GET AWAY WITH THIS THEY WILL DO IT AGAIN. WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS UNETHICAL AND UNACCEPTABLE. Think my caps lock was on while I was shouting...

Give me a break, it's not unethical to charge $10 for something to standard version owners that was marketed as a bonus to CE buyers. It would be a slap in the face to CE buyers if they said "hey, your bonus character is now free to everyone, thanks for spending an extra $20 for an N7 patch!"

If they said it was a massive game and it turned out that you put in disc 2 and it said "for the rest of the game, please buy the disc 2 content unlock key for 2400 MS points", THAT would be unethical. This most certainly is not unethical to allow other people to buy something that was given with the collector's edition.

[funkyfritter]

Thank you for taking the time to respond, even if nothing else comes from it I appreciate knowing that Bioware is aware of the reactions. That said, personally I still feel that selling story relevant content as an extra on launch day is a questionable business practice. If this decision remains unchanged I know that I won't be buying any dlc for mass effect 3 and will think long and hard before buying Bioware's next title.

[Atakuma]

LinksOcarina wrote...

El Ejcovero wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

leondore wrote...

Well, I was just waiting for a reply from BioWare and I got it. Just cancelled my CE on Amazon, can't support shady business practices like this.

Charging for day 1 dlc is bad enough, but when that dlc adds content and story within a story driven game, it goes from bad to ridiculous.

You're kidding ... you cancelled a pre-order for a version of the game that would have this DLC included? You realize it started as a bonus to people like you and I who ordered the DLC and they're letting other people get it for $10 ... wouldn't you be a little slighted if the thing they said was a bonus to you and I for ordering the CE ended up being given out for free to everyone anyway?

IT IS THE PRINCIPLE WE ARE PROTESTING. TO HELL WITH THE CONTENT. DON'T YOU SEE? IF WE LET EA GET AWAY WITH THIS THEY WILL DO IT AGAIN. WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS UNETHICAL AND UNACCEPTABLE. Think my caps lock was on while I was shouting...

Your principle is misguided since they have been doing this for four games now, and are honestly better at offering content than most companies out there that do day one DLC or extra content that is locked out of the disk.

Get over yourself.

How does it not being on the disc make it better?

[Romantiq]

You cut content from the game to monetize on it separately again? Is that new squad mate's name Sebastian perhaps?

[neubourn]

LucretoDrakor wrote...

I wouldn't care about this kind of thing if it was some random character that they thought up... but its a Prothean.. something that we've been surely wanting to see since mass effect 1. How can that not be part of the main story at all it makes no sense at all to keep that from all fans of the game I'm sure most will go for the collectors edition or whatever digital equivalent I would myself but when I think about mass effect 2 Ziede was included as part of the free dlc everyone got but now their keeping dlc from standard users now.

As was pointed out many times before, they could very well treat it like Liara in ME2: a character included in the game, but doesnt become your squad member or do a mission until the DLC.

Or they can treat it just like Zaeed: day one DLC character/mission that are not critical to the over all story. 

[El Ejcovero]

Draconis6666 wrote...

Yeah instead since it wasnt done it should have just been cut out of the game entirely and not given at all since no one appreicates the fact that they even have access to it at all. I'm all for a return to the old days when content was just cut and  not available later when people ****ed a whole lot less.

I actually am for returning to those days, also get rid of
persistent online stats, allow LAN games, allow dedicated servers run by users.
Those were the days you owned games, and games didn't own you. And ever heard
of expansions? Those were the best! Actual game content I was happy to pay for.
Not some stupid half-witted DLC.

[Yuoaman]

SovereignWillReturn wrote...

Wow people. If you don't like it don't buy it. He said it himself, THE DLC WAS MADE AFTER GAME COMPLETION.

yeah, it costs money, BECAUSE IS WAS DONE BY A SEPERATE TEAM.

Yeah, It's an EA move, but they have done worse, At least it isn't 15 dollar map packs, or Horse Armor. We're getting meaningful and prolonging gameplay DLC. If you want to vent your anger, go beat on a pillow rather than being a five year old about it.

Hate creates hate, anger creates anger. Complaining isn't going to make things better, it'll make things worse. There's nothing you can do, so just step back, and chill, go to the party temple and have a laugh, or drink a nice bottle of rum. Let's just all chill and be happy and stuff. Bioware has worked for 10 years on this series, don't get all mad and flustered over one DLC. They deserve more than your angry ranting for just one grievance.

Gears of War won't even support your multiplayer servers unless you buy the 30 dolla season pass, games force map-packs on you just to play multiplayer. We could be in an Bioware-Activison relationship, it could be worse, so let's be optimistic. Please.

Just because he said it doesn't make it true - the game was only officially completed earlier this month. Unless you're saying the Prothean was made over the course of last week...?

[RiouHotaru]

Dionkey wrote...
The Prothean is going to explain any questions we had about the Protheans, knowledge of the Reapers, and so on.

If you've read the script leaks, you KNOW this part isn't true.  And for someone who hasn't even seen the finished game you seem awfully sure of yourself.

[felipejiraya]

God, so much whining.

Don' like don't buy it, it's simple.

[Oswald The Garden Gnome]

TheOptimist wrote... 
 Imagine if they didn't include Garrus, Vega, or another character without coughing up 1/6 of the game's price. 

theres no ****ing way this guy is going to have nearly as big an impact on the story as Garrus nor Vega

[Chibito]

LinksOcarina wrote...

El Ejcovero wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

leondore wrote...

Well, I was just waiting for a reply from BioWare and I got it. Just cancelled my CE on Amazon, can't support shady business practices like this.

Charging for day 1 dlc is bad enough, but when that dlc adds content and story within a story driven game, it goes from bad to ridiculous.

You're kidding ... you cancelled a pre-order for a version of the game that would have this DLC included? You realize it started as a bonus to people like you and I who ordered the DLC and they're letting other people get it for $10 ... wouldn't you be a little slighted if the thing they said was a bonus to you and I for ordering the CE ended up being given out for free to everyone anyway?

IT IS THE PRINCIPLE WE ARE PROTESTING. TO HELL WITH THE CONTENT. DON'T YOU SEE? IF WE LET EA GET AWAY WITH THIS THEY WILL DO IT AGAIN. WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS UNETHICAL AND UNACCEPTABLE. Think my caps lock was on while I was shouting...

Your principle is misguided since they have been doing this for four games now, and are honestly better at offering content than most companies out there that do day one DLC or extra content that is locked out of the disk.

Get over yourself.

Wrong. Day 1 DLC is usually included free with the game, only to deter the sales of used copies. This is something entirely different.

Also

Habs25 wrote...

God, the internet is full of entitled, brave souls. Of course you know better than the developers, of course you do, you have an insider, the Shadow Broker gave you the information and that's how you know the game was finished as a whole then the DLC was taken out of it to be sold on release. You are 100% sure of this, and it makes you angry, you think Bioware, a great game developing company, ruined YOUR game. Well.... they pushed the series in the direction they envisioned and got many fans along the way, and now to end this storyline they produce some extra content, not crucial to the main story, but enriching and interesting nonetheless, something the fans would appreciate... except that for this extra, which people worked hard to create, tears and vulgarity are exchanged. Wake up call - this sense of entitlement and knowing better than the creators of the story is completely unfounded. Be glad you get a great game to play, made by people who care about it and who work hard to bring it to you, and who care about their fans. Stop making a fuss about some content being extra, it's not even expensive and it's extra - you don't need to get it, you can wait to get it, and if you got the CE then you're already getting it. What's the big deal? X dollars for content is meant for you to enjoy and enrich an already great game is not a big deal.

Merci

Apparently protheans aren't crucial to the main story. Wait, wait. What game are we playing again? What you're saying is, "Bioware is always right. Suck it up, aren't you a REAL FAN?"

[blacqout]

Michael Gamble wrote...
which is why he is part of the CE offering (the version many fans would be likely to purchase).  

Yeah, it's just a shame that once again CE pre-orders are getting cancelled.

[LinksOcarina]

packardbell wrote...

I can't believe people are trying to justify this decision. I've bought every single one of their games and pieces of DLC, but a line has to be drawn somewhere, milking your loyal customers of a purchase that should be available to all is downright insulting and makes me want to cancel my pre-order right away... maybe this will be my last Bioware purchase until they change their business ethics.. or at least EA.

tl;dr: It should be included for everyone, I see no reason why it wasn't, ala Sebastian, Zaeed and Shale... all available for free for loyal customers.

Sebastian wasn't free for customers who didn't get the signature edtion of the game. And people moaned over the fact that Zaeed and Shale were free for new buyers only at the time too, complaining that signing up and getting them for free over the cost of 10-15 dollars after the fact is wrong. 

So honestly, it doesn't matter how Bioware does things, because people will always think they are entitled to something that was made into a planned extra.

[Sargerus]

felipejiraya wrote...

God, so much whining.

Don' like don't buy it, it's simple.

You gots that right buddy :happy:

[havoc373]

nitefyre410 wrote...

DJBare wrote...
 
And so begins damage control, hope you guys are on the ball, I think you got a big mess to clean up.

 

given how that  statement read and  considering the fact that files have been pulled from the demo...

they are not...

 That statement  was some of the worst  damage control I have seen... SMH.   You are right this is a huge mess  to clean up.  Honestly the best  thing to do would be to make a free for everyone like you suggested and give the CE  buyers the soundtrack even  instead which I think the should have done it the first place that way it equals out.

according to my retailer CE buyers are getting the soundtrack. (its download only though)

[Draconis6666]

Dionkey wrote...
 As I already explained to someone else, none of that dialogue was used in game or the DLC, so it was clearly far from finished or was going to be a line Liara said in the game itself. If the DLC is finished before the game is released, then include it in the game. If it isn't, then sell it as DLC.

So whats your argument about Kasumi's dialogue for the suicide mission that was on the disc that is the exact dialogue she uses if you have the DLC ?

[RiouHotaru]

blacqout wrote...

Michael Gamble wrote...
which is why he is part of the CE offering (the version many fans would be likely to purchase).  

Yeah, it's just a shame that once again CE pre-orders are getting cancelled.

Well, it means more folks can get the CE and get the character!  Silver lining!

[Ryzaki]

Oswald The Garden Gnome wrote...

TheOptimist wrote... 
 Imagine if they didn't include Garrus, Vega, or another character without coughing up 1/6 of the game's price. 

theres no ****ing way this guy is going to have nearly as big an impact on the story as Garrus nor Vega

Thankfully he's not. They tweaked him to not be so important to the main plot.

Seb however (another DLC exclusive character) has far more plot importance than Fenris (a character that comes in the vanilla game) so it's not without precendence.

[Yuoaman]

felipejiraya wrote...

God, so much whining.

Don' like don't buy it, it's simple.

The game itself isn't the issue here, it's that a major part of the lore is being taken out because they feel like shaking their players down for more money.

[Almostfaceman]

Patrickslaw2 wrote...

Uhhh, no.  There are several cut lines of dialog foreshadowing Shadow Broker, you have NO proof it was made post-development.

Oh really? Whats his dialog doing coded into the demo? I thought he was added after the fact.

I know it's hard to understand, so let's take this slowly. Per Stanley Woo:

Usually, DLC is developed late in production by either a different team or by some of the original team who may not be needed for the main game anymore. Writers and some designers, for example, are most needed at the start and the middle of production, and less so at the end of a project.
Because it is a bonus and an extra, it has a slightly lower priority than the main game. The main game has to be content-locked and the game sent for certification anywhere between 2-8 weeks before the street date. If a game fails certification, whatever caused it to fail must get fixed, which means the entire thing must be tested again. The game must be certified all over again from the beginning because the game on disc has changed.
During the certification process, some folks can be working on a day 1 patch or moved to other projects (they're certainly not sitting idle). They could also be working to finish the DLC that will be made available on day 1. Because it is downloadable content, there is no physical media to manufacture and distribute, which means the DLC can be finished closer to the street date. It still has to be certified, but the process is much faster because it is a) not on physical media and much, much smaller than a full-sized game. Appearance packs and weapons are compartively smaller and simpler than story and character-based DLC, and people and effort are scheduled accordingly.
So, like a meal order in a kitchen, the team tries to schedule things so that everything is finished in time to come out together.

Quite obviously, the sound files that are present in the core game are a result of parallel work, with the DLC team being done after the core game team was done. They put in what they could and the rest will be added with the DLC download.

[Evadson]

The problem isn't that there is DLC on day one, the problem is that you plan to charge me EXTRA for content to a game I ALREADY BOUGHT at FULL PRICE. If you are trying to discourage people from buying used copies of the game or pirating it than just do what you did for ME2. You are basically stripping content off of a game that is already done and making us pay extra for it. I have already canceled my pre-order and I don't intend to buy the game until I find a used copy because I don't want to give you guys a DAMN CENT.

[Qunu]

Daywalker315 wrote...

If enough people buy copies second hand to "bleed them dry" as you say, it still wouldn't work the way you say. Unless the same copy got shared around 10 times, that many people buying used copies would necessitate that the same amount of copies were once sold new. Hence, no bleeding dry.

No offense, but you just sound petty. If you had the collector's edition, you'd be getting this included anyway. I have one pre-ordered and I'm happy that they're not giving away the bonus character for free that was promised as a bonus to CE buyers in the first place. $10 for a completely optional squad mate (who may or may not already be in the game for story purposes anyway just not as a squad mate) is not the end of the world. Just breathe. Buy the game and enjoy it the way you planned. It will be alright.

You're right in a sense, its not the end of the world becuase its just a video game. But at the same time, we shouldn't be accepting certain buisness practices. 10 Dollars is a lot of money when you compare it to the game initself. The game is worth $60. The squadmate and mission is priced at $10.  Thats 1/6th of the game right there. The ammount of content has to be equivilant to 1/6 of the game to be worth it. And somehow i doubt that would be the case.

If i'm not intested in all the bells and whistles that come extra what incentive do i have to buy the game new, let alone for the collectors edition. I have no intrest, and more importantly i've got an incentive to buy it used if i know bioware will never recive my money. This is important becasue as a consumer i shouldn't be rewarding them, and by their logic, i'm not. By thier logic i'm worse then the pirate, which now gives me power.

And you're aboustely right in that this method shouldn't bleed them dry. But for some odd reason, they think it does. Dont ask me how they came to that conclusion, because i agree with your logic. But for some odd reason they assume that every second hand sale belongs to them, and therefore any time a game gets sold or trade they loose whatever money they got originally. This is where i got the idea for bleed them dry. It's all in their head, but as long as they believe that, there is no harm in perpetuatingthis myth.

[ThomasakaDes_]

Lol @ people complaing about having to buy the collector`s edition to get this dlc, no you don`t
It`s cheaper to just buy the dlc then the whole ce.
The dlc probably costs like 10 bucks, the whole dlc costs 141 bucks(in my country).

[LinksOcarina]

Atakuma wrote...
How does it not being on the disc make it better?

It doesn't make it better or worse, it makes it what it is, extra content that is optional for people.

You know, the point of what DLC is to begin with.