13369 réponses à ce sujet

[wiseguy1287]

Is it not alright for a company to further support its product even after the game is launched? I had the CE preorder, but my preorder was botched (PS3 instead of 360 version) and I only preordered that for the extra content, and now that content is being released separately, well now my problem is solved. Would it be nice that it was free? Yes, but at least it beats Horse Armor. That's capitalism (and EA moreso than Bioware) doing that. And I don't doubt that "From Ashes" was being worked on after the main game was moved from development to mass production.

[mjharper]

OdanUrr wrote...

mjharper wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

mjharper wrote...

I don't really want to get involved in this discussion, but I wonder how much of the problem is down to names?

What would have happened if, instead of 'Collector's Edition' Bioware had called it the 'Fan Edition', or 'Full Edition', or even 'Standard Edition'; and if instead of 'Standard Edition' they called the cheaper set the 'Casual Edition' or 'Budget Edition'?

That would have made the matter worse.

Why? (Please humour me, I'm genuinely interested and not trying to troll!)

I believe GMOSinc put it better when s/he said you're essentially "classifying" your consumer base, separating them into fans and non-fans and it's not quite like that. For a variety of reasons, there will be a lot of people who won't be able to acquire the "fan" edition (limited copies, tight budget, not available in their country of residence, etc.). Does that mean they're not fans then? For instance, subject A lives in the US and can afford the $80 for the CE easily enough, was able to pre-order and will likely play the game on release date. Subject B lives in Kazakhstan. He too could easily afford the $80 for the CE, but in Kazakhstan the CE will cost $200 and will only be available five months after launch. Now the standard edition in Kazakhstan will cost $120 and subject B has chosen this one instead despite the fact he's paying a lot more than in other parts of the world. However, since he won't be acquiring the "fan" edition he isn't really a fan.

Neat, isn't it?

 
Fair enough. Clearly, for my 'suggestion' to work, the CE would have to be far more available in retail than it is now.

I just wondered whether less s*** might had hit the fan if Bioware had straightforwardly said that ME3 is an $80 game, but there's a cheaper version with some non-essential stuff taken out.

[Alex_SM]

Draconis6666 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

135,785
21,095 likes, 916 dislikes

No one can tell EA/Bioware how to run their business, I certainly would not, I have no business training, but when dealing with mob mentality, it's best to err on the side of caution, saying they created the prothean DLC for the fans is just rubbing salt in the wound, right or wrong does not come into it any more, the damage is done.

Those numbers actualy are very telling out of all those view less than 1/4th actualy bothered to like or dislike it. So either people are watching tht video 5 times or the vast majority dont even care enough to comment on the video one way or the other.

It's like you've never visited youtube before.

21.000 votes for 135.000 visitors is quite a lot. 

[Rockworm503]

Hardwired wrote...

I am sorry Mr Gamble, but you do not have my support.

These types of low and underhanded tactics of obvious moneygrabbing nature is not ok.
This is content that was created pre-launch. It is also content that is a major deal, regardless of what you say it is. It is a mission on Eden prime with the addition of a Prothean member. Anyone familiar of the story of Mass effect know that this is a big deal.
Purely cosmetic content is one thing. Or perhaps flat team additions like Zhaed or Kasumi that have no major impact on the content, and was released post-launch.
But this is denying content that was created pre-launch to all except those who pay the digital collectors edition or pay and extra 10 bucks on launchday.

Holding out on content like this and saying it's for the hardcore user is bull****, plain and simple. It's a greedy and highly disgraceful way for doing business.

I have been an avid Bioware fan for a very long time. Supporting the company and buying close to every release you have ever pushed out, due to it being a quality product with excellent storylines. The quality has no doubt not changed, but due to this underhanded move I have made the very difficult decition to not support you any longer.
It really is a drag to say it. I will not be able to conclude that Mass effect story due to this obvious act of pure greed.

And I urge any that feel the same to take this step. We can't be pushed around as consumers and we should not accept crap like this.

I shall not be buying this game.

I wish I had the strength of my convictions to do this.
Probably exactly why their pushing this with the 3rd game because they know many people will be ok with it because its ME3.

[Draconis6666]

Dexi wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...
Basicaly Potential or Deserved Importance =/= Actual Importance

But that would mean BW deliberately ignores that potential and/or deserved importance. 
That would be bad, agreed? The reason for doing so, that is squeezing some money of it's fans, would be much worse.

 The fact that they ruined the potential would be bad the fact that they used something people are actualy interested in to sell something isnt. You can hardly expect them to market things no one cares about and make money from it. They are a business and they have shareholders to make money for, so they take something people care about and use it to sell optional content, its something that other industries do every day in marketing. 

Is this a bad or immoral thing to do? Possibly, but the blame cannot be placed entirely on Bioware and EA. It is the consumer's job as well to do some research on what they are buying. Leaping to buy something because its a Prothean and you are sure that it will be something super cool because... well its a prothean! then finding that its something totaly uninteresting to you is partial your fault as well.

[Confused-Shepard]

The idea behind Day 1 DLC or Project $10 was that people who buy the game used have to pay for it while new copies get it for free. You are selling a $60 game and then asking us to pay ANOTHER $10 for content developed parralel to the actual game? Why not sell the game for $70 then? 

YOU THINK WE ARE SO THICK THAT WE WILL HAPPILY PAY FOR IT LIKE MINDLESS DRONES?!

Modifié par Confused-Shepard, 23 février 2012 - 11:46 .

[Blarty]

DaJe wrote...

Blarty wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Blarty wrote...

Does the game put up on the screen - 'Before you enter the final conflict, please insert 800MS points to buy Prothean DLC to continue'?

Nope.

Then what exactly is all the fuss about - dear god.... I'm sure next to the phrase 'First World Problem' will be 'syn: Bioware Social Network'

I assume many who are making a "fuss" about this, like me, are extrapolating the signs.
Considering the development of the past few years, in the future even more important things to the story will be cut from the games and sold as DLC. For many people exluding a freakin prothean from the main game already crosses the line, and that line is moving away from customer interest with every game.
It is not only an uproar to stop whats goin on now in the game industry (not every developer), but also what is to come.
If we don't defend our interests, it wont be long before "please visit our online store to purchase the next level in the story." will become reality.

You are extrapolating the signs of today to make an assumption about what happens tomorrow and raging about that because you're comparing the possibility to what happened yesterday. Although I don't like the Day 1 DLC issue, this kind of extrapolation is basically fundamental to resistance to change - not just here but in anything, so it's not a comment on your Prothean DLC view, and not saying I agree with it,  just a general observation. 

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Is there any way to pay more than $10 for the Prothean? Because I would love to pay extra if it meant that the haters who have the audacity to question BioWare and even call them liars would keep quiet and stop ruining everyone else's fun.

Seriously guys, you complain over everything.

If Mass Effect 3 were $100 and you had to pay $10 for every squadmate in the game extra, it'd still be worth it because it's BioWare and with BioWare, you know that you get what you pay for.

[geret25]

I preordered the N7-edition some day in january. At this point i knew, i will get an additional squadmate and a bonusmission. I thought it will be some lore-irrelevant character like Zaeed or even Grunt for example. I really like Grunt, but he is not vital storywise. And yes I know it's not a DLC. Now i hear we get a PROTHEAN. That's ridiculous, just as TB mentioned in his video yesterday. The Protheans are VERY important to the mass effect storyline. If not for them, we would already be dead since several years.

I am thinking about canceling my pre-order, although I would have also pre-ordered it if there was no bonus-squadmate/mission. This is over the top.

My problem is that Mass Effect 1 and 2 are my favourite games ever by far, so it's really hard for me to say "Well I'll boycot it", but even if i don't, this is gonna be my last game from Bioware/EA or maybe everything with an EA logo on it.

[OdanUrr]

Confused-Shepard wrote...

YOU THINK WE ARE SO THICK THAT WE WILL HAPPILY PAY FOR IT LIKE MINDLESS DRONES?!

Is that like a trick question?

[Kevin Lozandier]

Esquin wrote...

Michael Gamble wrote...

I've read all 96 pages of this thread. Contrary to popular thoughts, we really do care what you guys have to say.

Casey and I have explained how the development timeline on these DLC go, and in order to have our DLC flow with the main game, we do have to integrate the VO into certain places in the core product (Certain ME2 DLCs followed this same pattern). But there's a lot of work to crafting a great DLC, outside of the VO and script.

That said, i can tell you is that a team of of us poured our heart into this DLC after we had given all we could to finish the the ME3 game. We pushed hard because we wanted people to be able to experience this adventure on the first day, rather than day 30 or 60. We're proud of it, and if you choose to play it, I think you'll see that.

I really do appreciate every person who wants to give ME3 a chance (even if you're not happy with me right now!), and even without 'From Ashes' - I think you will be blown away.

Thanks for your support, and thanks for your feedback.

Mike

I'll play ME3. I'll probably love it. I'm sure i'll love From Ashes as well, I look forward to playing it and seeing what you guys came up with.

That isn't the issue. Day 1 DLC has in the past been a way to promote purchasing of the game new and not used. Thats what Bioware has used it for in the past. It's an idea I support and it's your right to do it. You want to make money from the game, that makes sense. So offering an incentive to players who pay you for the game is great. Well done for rewarding loyal fans.

Thats not what you've done here. Bioware is offering Day 1 DLC for a price. Something totally different to what has been done in the past and something I cannot support. I have already pre-ordered the CE so this doesn't impact me directly. I'm not about to cancel my pre-order over this. But I still feel the need to voice my opinion.

Day 1 DLC as a tool to promote new game purchases is great, good on you for doing it and I don't have any issue with it. What I take issue with is charging any new player regardless of where their copy came from to buy the day 1 DLC. It's wrong. The content exists and is ready for release, I respect that you weren't sure it would be ready before shipping. But it is. While it is your property and you can obviously do with it what you want, this kind of marketting will destroy a lot of faith that your customers have in Bioware. 

What were they supposed to do? Stop the 'presses' and waste $$$ of thousands of copies of the final game that were made to include the content? That's not cheap, does not make sense ecnomically, and I would argue the PR debate that ensues would not be enough to justify this as most gaming companies are a LOT worse: It's like if Amazon's servers shut down: if they're down, everybody is down. 

If you don't like Day 1 DLC and would rather it just being delayed for the sake of being delayed, apply to not buying ANY game day 1 in principle if they do this, though I would say in most cases it's flawed. Now if you can prove to me that they have the content on the DISC, THAT would be something different. 

[Draconis6666]

Alex_SM wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

135,785
21,095 likes, 916 dislikes

No one can tell EA/Bioware how to run their business, I certainly would not, I have no business training, but when dealing with mob mentality, it's best to err on the side of caution, saying they created the prothean DLC for the fans is just rubbing salt in the wound, right or wrong does not come into it any more, the damage is done.

Those numbers actualy are very telling out of all those view less than 1/4th actualy bothered to like or dislike it. So either people are watching tht video 5 times or the vast majority dont even care enough to comment on the video one way or the other.

It's like you've never visited youtube before.

21.000 votes for 135.000 visitors is quite a lot. 

Yes but thats because Youtube in general proves the point that most people dont care to make their opinions on things known at all. Either out of lazyness, desire not to, or complete indifference. The Majority do not bother, the fact that the ratio on that number is higher than most videos is because its a controversial topic where those who strongly feel wronged are more vocal than they might otherwise be. The bulk have still however decided not to comment one way or the other for various reasons. Does that say anythign one way or the other? Nope not at all, but you also cannot caim to be the majority viewpoint given those numbers either, only the vocal majority, which is very often not the actual majority. 

[Confused-Shepard]

CrustyBot wrote...

Is there any way to pay more than $10 for the Prothean? Because I would love to pay extra if it meant that the haters who have the audacity to question BioWare and even call them liars would keep quiet and stop ruining everyone else's fun.

Seriously guys, you complain over everything.

If Mass Effect 3 were $100 and you had to pay $10 for every squadmate in the game extra, it'd still be worth it because it's BioWare and with BioWare, you know that you get what you pay for.

Hey Vampires! Come to me! SUCK ALL MY BLOOD! I don't need it! Honestly! 

[Rockworm503]

CrustyBot wrote...

Is there any way to pay more than $10 for the Prothean? Because I would love to pay extra if it meant that the haters who have the audacity to question BioWare and even call them liars would keep quiet and stop ruining everyone else's fun.

Seriously guys, you complain over everything.

If Mass Effect 3 were $100 and you had to pay $10 for every squadmate in the game extra, it'd still be worth it because it's BioWare and with BioWare, you know that you get what you pay for.

HAHA I love your posts.  Don't ever change.

[Baal Sagoth]

Brian.V3 wrote...

So I need the Prothean to defeat the Reapers? Cause that is the only way that the Prothean can one up the Multiplayer aspect that you just downplayed my friend. I could choose to play it to up my readiness level but I probably wont. What does the Prothean give me? some insight on how life was back when the Reapers last glassed the galaxy?

Tell me oh wise one how is the Prothean experience so essential when I can go a whole playthrough and get the best uber ending without it? 

Like I said about this character... the guy is nothing but fan service nothing more. I couldn't imagine I shared the same thing with good ol' Mike Gamble. 

Bold part - This. I don't care what he brings or adds to gameplay. What is important is that he is extremly vital to ME lore, which is more important than game skills, mechanics or gameplay.

[Reinholder]

 Having pondered my response, I think I've decided how best to put this.

19 months ago, I boxed my xbox. I boxed it on account of how utterly hostile some members of the XBL community can be, and then when I saw the graphical comparisons for some of the games I enjoy, I figured that I may as well make the switch; I have consciously bought hi definition entertainment, and felt that I was simply not getting that on the xbox on the whole.

The said, I have very patiently re-purchased every game I ever owned on the xbox via steam, origin or even impulse, to the point that I can now boast that the games I own are there to play whenever I choose - I proudly bought the digital deluxe edition of mass effect 2, and would have done the same with mass effect 1 had there been that option available.

However.

Game in the UK is woefully inadequate when it comes to the PC consumer; we often suffer at the hands of their business practices, meaning that it can often take weeks for a game such as Space Marine to make it to the steam platform, and even then, it's really been too late because Game's attitude to the PC market has essentially killed that franchise before it has even begun. Bearing this in mind, I want to assure you that I'm completely serious when I say that I've called every shop between Liskeard and Bristol to ask for a PC version of the collector's edition, only to be told that Game/Gamestation had not bought any stock, and would not be likely to in the future. As a consumer, and as a fan of Mass Effect as a whole, that hurts me that I can't support a product that I believe in.

Then we come to the online version; I can't justify £54.99 for a "collector's edition" that I physically don't have in my hand. I can go along with the idea of a standard copy, however, despite it being £35 for a single copy. Now. Where it gets complicated, is that with the DLC, it'll probably cost £8-9 in the UK at release, taking the price up to £43-44 for the standard edition, which means in the long run, I may as well have bought the collector's edition anyway, for the sake of £10. My question to Bioware is this:

Where's my incentive to remain a loyal customer over the next ten years, when you treat me, as a consumer with that much contempt? Don't get me wrong - if this were something stupid like a scope or a gun, I wouldn't give a crap; I would probably buy all the DLC anyway - but what we're talking about here, is a character that is an integral and essential part of the storytelling thread to the mass effect storyline - not DLC where we discover Miranda has been up to, but something that you've woven into every whispered thread since mass effect 1. It's unethical that you're making people who may not be able to afford to pay for DLC to do so, in order to get complete satisfaction from what you promise will be the conclusion of the Shepard storyline.

Are you forgetting people like me? I'm part of the reason you're here - I've bought KOTOR 1&2, Dragon Age 1&3, Mass Effect 1&2, and have bought Star Wars: The Old Republic - but am seriously considering ridding myself of it precisely because of your business practices.

It's bad enough that you continually disregard the wishes of many a user and add Gamepad support to all three games, but to disregard a loyal customer so flagrantly and wilfully, to the point of with holding a vital story thread could only be described as contemptable behaviour at best, and there should be a law in the EU about this kind of practice of monetising important story elements.

I urge you. Do the decent thing, and package this DLC properly so that it completes the game. Until you do so, I shan't be completing my journey with Shepard until Mass Effect 3 becomes a bargain basement product, and it will make me think twice about buying your merchandise and software in the future.

[Amikae]

CrustyBot wrote...

Is there any way to pay more than $10 for the Prothean? Because I would love to pay extra if it meant that the haters who have the audacity to question BioWare and even call them liars would keep quiet and stop ruining everyone else's fun.

Seriously guys, you complain over everything.

If Mass Effect 3 were $100 and you had to pay $10 for every squadmate in the game extra, it'd still be worth it because it's BioWare and with BioWare, you know that you get what you pay for.

God forbid we question BioWare/EA. What a mortal sin....

[Draconis6666]

Confused-Shepard wrote...

The idea behind Day 1 DLC or Project $10 was that people who buy the game used have to pay for it while new copies get it for free. You are selling a $60 game and then asking us to pay ANOTHER $10 for content developed parralel to the actual game? Why not sell the game for $70 then? 

YOU THINK WE ARE SO THICK THAT WE WILL HAPPILY PAY FOR IT LIKE MINDLESS DRONES?!

You mean like activision does? Personaly id rather have them charge me extra for the stuff I may not actualy want than force me to buy it and charge me for it to get the rest of the game, but to each their own.

[Almostfaceman]

Esquin wrote...

I'll play ME3. I'll probably love it. I'm sure i'll love From Ashes as well, I look forward to playing it and seeing what you guys came up with.

That isn't the issue. Day 1 DLC has in the past been a way to promote purchasing of the game new and not used. Thats what Bioware has used it for in the past. It's an idea I support and it's your right to do it. You want to make money from the game, that makes sense. So offering an incentive to players who pay you for the game is great. Well done for rewarding loyal fans.

Thats not what you've done here. Bioware is offering Day 1 DLC for a price. Something totally different to what has been done in the past and something I cannot support. I have already pre-ordered the CE so this doesn't impact me directly. I'm not about to cancel my pre-order over this. But I still feel the need to voice my opinion.

Day 1 DLC as a tool to promote new game purchases is great, good on you for doing it and I don't have any issue with it. What I take issue with is charging any new player regardless of where their copy came from to buy the day 1 DLC. It's wrong. The content exists and is ready for release, I respect that you weren't sure it would be ready before shipping. But it is. While it is your property and you can obviously do with it what you want, this kind of marketting will destroy a lot of faith that your customers have in Bioware. 

So, when you bought the CE, you paid for a day 1 dlc. That's part of the reason the CE costs more. So, it's okay for you to pay for a Day 1 dlc, but it's not okay for the rest of us?

[Confused-Shepard]

Cancel this shoddy DLC. I am not joking. It's purely fan service and will add nothing
Bioware introduced me to RPG's and now it's making me despise them.

[Blarty]

Baal Sagoth wrote...

Brian.V3 wrote...

So I need the Prothean to defeat the Reapers? Cause that is the only way that the Prothean can one up the Multiplayer aspect that you just downplayed my friend. I could choose to play it to up my readiness level but I probably wont. What does the Prothean give me? some insight on how life was back when the Reapers last glassed the galaxy?

Tell me oh wise one how is the Prothean experience so essential when I can go a whole playthrough and get the best uber ending without it? 

Like I said about this character... the guy is nothing but fan service nothing more. I couldn't imagine I shared the same thing with good ol' Mike Gamble. 

Bold part - This. I don't care what he brings or adds to gameplay. What is important is that he is extremly vital to ME lore, which is more important than game skills, mechanics or gameplay.

And this is lore that will be on masseffect.wikia.com before the Collector's Editions even get released in the UK....
... so if you only care about the lore, you'll be able to get the lore from the Prothean AND not have to pay for it anyway.....

[Draconis6666]

Baal Sagoth wrote...

Bold part - This. I don't care what he brings or adds to gameplay. What is important is that he is extremly vital to ME lore, which is more important than game skills, mechanics or gameplay.

More important to YOU, Your personal opinion is not suitable grounds for an argument that it must be included and given free to everyone.

[Cainne Chapel]

Wow even though i've been on BSN for years, the amount of random....whine-ery over Day 1 DLC, at the same time baffles and stuns me.

I can understand being upset, I get that, but to swear off a gaming company as a whole because of it... I just dont see why. I understand the monetary thing but people come on... Video gaming is a luxury, not a necessity, its not food, its not water, its not essential to your life. But with the amount of furor here over a freaking optional team mate...

its downright amazing honestly.

[OdanUrr]

We need someone to make a drawing of renegade Shepard asking for Prothy to complete his journey!  

Pretty please?

Just imagine it, renegade Shepard pointing his gun at some figure and saying, "I want Prothy, or this other Prothean dies!"