13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Confused-Shepard]

Hardwired wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Wow even though i've been on BSN for years, the amount of random....whine-ery over Day 1 DLC, at the same time baffles and stuns me.

I can understand being upset, I get that, but to swear off a gaming company as a whole because of it... I just dont see why. I understand the monetary thing but people come on... Video gaming is a luxury, not a necessity, its not food, its not water, its not essential to your life. But with the amount of furor here over a freaking optional team mate...

its downright amazing honestly.

This is correct.

It is not essential to my wellbeing and it is indeed a luxury that I indulge myself with. And as such it is my right to decide what my money is used for. In this case I refuse to support a business move that I find disgusting in it's nature. So it is my decition to not support it with my money.

Beyond that is of course my opinion. That this is not just another teammate. Zhaed and Katsumi were like that, and they came to be post-launch. This is a prothean teammate with attaches storyline. Anyone who has played these games what kind of major deal that is. And it is created pre-launch, and my most inlinations was planned for long beforehand.

Thats whay people are upset over this.

Precisely. I don't like it. I won't pay for it. But that does not mean I won't express my opinion of explotative business parctices. Story and plot is the commodity Bioware is selling except that they are demanding more for conetnt that should have been part of the main game but is now reduced to a bloody side mission. Prothy is not necessary but the thinking that we would still be willing to pay for it irritates me. Many will regardless... those with deep pockets

[Sleek]

The bottom line is guys , Nickel and Dime. And it wrong ,EA should give everyong ALL pre order bonus and DLC up to this present point and time for FREE. EA will servive and profit. Perfect example , look at CDP pubs and devs for the Witcher 2 fell that ALL the fans should expeirence EVERYTHING the game has to offer. EA should be ashamed , the have been doing project 10 dollar for years now and it should stop. And i pre ordered the CE edition. I tried to cancel but cant.

[foo man chew]

So cainne chapel because something is a luxury its ok to rip people off.It is day one content meaning it was made left out of the game on purpose just to charge people extra for it.I could care less about the dlc itself but when a company is blatantly try to rip people off thats just plain wrong.

[DaJe]

Draconis6666 wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

Dexi wrote...

And your argument fights in the direction disproving of his existence altogether, not his importance. 

As I already stated, the status quo of his existence makes him important. 

But its true his existance is not required to be important or even needed simply because he exists, his entire DLC could very  well just be to simply allow players to explore more about teh lore aspect of the protheans in a way that has no relevance to the protheans contributions to the war against the reaper. In this regard yes he would have no importance or actual need to the game at all. He would simply be a way to provide fans of the series an insight into something that may interest them beyond whats important to the plot of the game.

Suppose the plot of his mission is simply an insight into the daily life of protheans before the reapers in that case what relevance does he have to the actual game itself? very little, but it would still be of value to pepole who wish to learn about the lore. Even if he had no mission at all and said nothing but one liners he would have value to people who just think its cool to have a prothean along to kill stuff with.

The status quo of his existance makes him possibly important but does not ensure it or guarantee it, because this is a game and not reality and what role he plays is not subject to actual interactions in which we would be free to pursu any course of interaction with him we wish, we are insteaad forced to interact with him within the constrains of how Bioware has chosen to allow us to. That does not have to be anything important to anythign at all, he could just as easily be Mute say nothing, have no mission and follow us around and shoot thigns and have zero relevance but still be inclluded because they felt like putting it in.

This would be a horrible implmementation and if thats how it was done, that would be plenty of concern for outrage over the wasted potential of the character, and likely his actual implementation will be just as much so.

His importance within the game however is not ensured by his existance alone, it only becomes a valid argument if you begin to include conjecture on what SHOULD be included and what IS included and how HE SHOULD relate to those things which in no way forces him to do so because his actions are determined by what Bioware has written for him and not by what we believe he should do.

Basicaly Potential or Deserved Importance =/= Actual Importance

Thank you.  If what you say is true than it makes it all the more easier to ignore it.
If this DLC is so not important than I have really no reason to get it.

Thats the nice thing about the fact that its DLC, its Optional If you feel concerned that it is not something that will interest you at all then you can simply not buy it, or wait till other people who do have played it and see what they say about its importance and then decide if you want to buy it.

Wouldnt you prefer that to the possible alternative of instead waiting longer to get the game and then paying more for the game itself to find that you waited so you could have a squad member and mission that you find completely uinteresting and unimportant?

The fact that a prothean is deemed optional in a series where that race has great significance is already the problem here.

Where do you draw the line what is imporant to the game? What's optional next? Femshep? classes? Abilities? Side quests? Turning a narrative driven game into some puzzle takes away from it's impact. It's like watching selective scenes from a movie instead of the whole thing. You might think it's your choice, but the end result does not feel natural and nearly as engaging as it could be.

Modifié par DaJe, 23 février 2012 - 12:12 .

[Reinholder]

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

You don't know the story of the game, how can you assert with certainty that this Prothean is so key to the story? Sure, his race is important; but if another  Krogan or a  Collector (a 'reapified' Prothean) was DLC, would you be mad as well as those races are certainly key to the story? 

For all we know, there may be other Protheans features in the game or they are involved with the super weapon I won't name that was revealed in the new Art book for the series.

It's naive to assume that a storyline with a Prothean in it will be a case of "oh hey, here's a Prothean to play with, by the way." That storyline (and I'll put money on this - I'll buy you a $10 game of your choice on steam if I'm wrong) will come with backstory, and additional story elements, as well as a possible jump off point for the future of the franchise.

[OdanUrr]

Confused-Shepard wrote...

Blarty wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Blarty wrote...

I want a Batarian squadmate as that has more direct and current influence on ME3 than some 'where the hell am I?' Prothean.... give me my Batarian squaddie, name him 'Brian', give me the DLC on release and make it free!!!! *shakes fist at sky*

You shouldn't shake your fist at the sky, you should...

... bring down the sky!

I'm trying to son, but they won't give me what I want!!!

You know it's stuff like this that makes us look like gullible fools and leads to exploitation
In the games industry, the customer is always WRONG apparently 

You do know it was a joke, right? I'm gonna hate myself for this, but I'll break it down for you. Blarty was talking about Batarians, I casually inserted the "bring down the sky" quote in reference to the ME1 DLC featuring the Batarian terrorist. There, joke explained. Now let me cry in peace.

[Link Ashland 614]

10 dollars for the DLC? It's not that bad, just think this for a minute: 10 dollars for the DLC; for me (live in Mexico) imagine it'd be 170 dollars for the 1000 MS points.
CE? 80 dollars. Imagine it'd be 1800 dollars.

So yeah, don't complain too much. There's always someone somewhere in worse conditions. AND, you're complaining and everything, I understand that, but you're still gonna end up buying ME3 and the DLC. Also, Bioware doesn't control the marketplace, so there's no point in so much complaining. I'm sorry, but there won't be any changes, maybe price but I doubt it :/

[Confused-Shepard]

Sleek wrote...

The bottom line is guys , Nickel and Dime. And it wrong ,EA should give everyong ALL pre order bonus and DLC up to this present point and time for FREE. EA will servive and profit. Perfect example , look at CDP pubs and devs for the Witcher 2 fell that ALL the fans should expeirence EVERYTHING the game has to offer. EA should be ashamed , the have been doing project 10 dollar for years now and it should stop. And i pre ordered the CE edition. I tried to cancel but cant.

I support Project $10 but don't support treating your fanbase like walking wallets

[Jostle]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Wow even though i've been on BSN for years, the amount of random....whine-ery over Day 1 DLC, at the same time baffles and stuns me.

I can understand being upset, I get that, but to swear off a gaming company as a whole because of it... I just dont see why. I understand the monetary thing but people come on... Video gaming is a luxury, not a necessity, its not food, its not water, its not essential to your life. But with the amount of furor here over a freaking optional team mate...

its downright amazing honestly.

Would it make you feel better for someone to say something along the lines of:

I'm swearing off a game company because, while past titles have been stellar, there has been a steady decline in the quality of the products I have recieved from them. Dragon Age II was garbage. The Old Republic was garbage. The only franchise that is left for me to enjoy (whether it be from a real or percieved lack of quality) is Mass Effect, and the demo along with Day One DLC that seems inappropriate to me is beginning to make me ask the question "Who are you, and what have you done to Bioware?"

Would that be downright amazing? Video gaming is not essential. Neither is football, but that doesn't stop people from becoming fans (it's an abreviation of fanatic, if you weren't aware).

[DCYNIGR8]

Just want to leave my thoughts here.

For me, nothing game content wise should ever be exclusive to any versions of any game. Alternate outfits and a few weapons are okay, but bonus characters and missions, no. I'm getting the N7 edition because I like
things like steel books, art books, soundtracks, etc to be in collector’s editions, it was never all about the bonus character and mission for me.

I also don't really approve of any 'day one DLC' business. Anything ready for 'day one' should be included with the full game. Either it should be a part of the game already or available to anyone who purchases the game new, for free.

Pretty sure this Prothy business wouldn't be such a big deal if it was:

A) Never included in the N7 edition at all.

Free for everyone who purchased the game new via the whole 'one time use' code business.

In a perfect world, he’d be in the game proper, and integral to the story as well as the squad, but here we are...

I'm not against DLC when done properly, but it really hasn't been here. Having 800 Microsoft Points of content available before the game is even released is just disappointing. I'm not going to get out my pitchfork and
publicly boycott anything EA/BioWare produce in the future, because I will buy their games if I like them, simple as that. The Mass Effect series is among my favourite of all time and I have received many hours of entertainment through playing the first two games many times over, as I'm sure I will with the third.

But you can still colour me disappoint.

Modifié par DCYNIGR8, 23 février 2012 - 12:14 .

[Kevin Lozandier]

Some of you should look into the process of a game being developed.  Most of you are essentially saying Bioware to undo the work they did for some time to seperate this character from the core game, stop the presses of the game currently being reproduced by the thousands for March 6, 2012 and act like those copies and the money spent to make those copies don't exist, and add back something that is at most maybe at most 1-2 additional gameplay + the completely unnecessary additional gun and custome despite all the work and sweat they've made to make it a DLC-worthy package? 


That's insane. They made a decision. Based on their rationale, it made sense. Some aren't going to like it. But the way they have packaged it and the fact that it's included free with those who was likely to appreciate it the most, there's not much of a foul in my opinion.

Considering how other company's DLC have been implemented at the same price range (remember this DLC is MORE than the Prothean), it's reasonable value. 

Modifié par Kevin Lozandier, 23 février 2012 - 12:27 .

[Draconis6666]

Sleek wrote...

The bottom line is guys , Nickel and Dime. And it wrong ,EA should give everyong ALL pre order bonus and DLC up to this present point and time for FREE. EA will servive and profit. Perfect example , look at CDP pubs and devs for the Witcher 2 fell that ALL the fans should expeirence EVERYTHING the game has to offer. EA should be ashamed , the have been doing project 10 dollar for years now and it should stop. And i pre ordered the CE edition. I tried to cancel but cant.

 So your saying that they should limit their profits because you think its wrong, somehow I dont think that EA's shareholders would agree with you. Are you right, perhaps, but if they dont charge you for DLC shareholders will stil demand increased profits that will come instead from one of several options, decreased overall quality of games to cut down on costs (unlikely because people dont pay as much for inferior goods and sales are likely to decrease also) or they will charge ou more for the base unit. If you want them to stop charging you $10 for DLC then thats fine but dont be suprised if they then just charge you $70 or $80 for the game like Activsion already does in some cases.

[Cainne Chapel]

foo man chew wrote...

So cainne chapel because something is a luxury its ok to rip people off.It is day one content meaning it was made left out of the game on purpose just to charge people extra for it.I could care less about the dlc itself but when a company is blatantly try to rip people off thats just plain wrong.

Not at all.  But then  I dont consider DAy 1 DLC to be a rip off, least of all optional content.

Of course I've stated I would buy it myself regardless as I'm THAT kind of ME fan (I do have a lot of "optional" ME related merchandise around my house too if you must know).

As for being left out, if you feel it is, fine, dont buy it, but that doesn't mean EA is ripping you off because they feel like charging more for more content.  Does everyone like it? No, they dont have too, its not their business call and they dont call the shots.

Would I like to get paid more at my job? of course I do, I feel I do more work than I'm compensated for currently, but as much as I try to wrangle more, its not my call at the end of the day either. but I trudge on!

Of course I also paid up for the CE edition to get special bonus items so I'm not worried about it, if I missed out on that then yeah I'd pay the extra 10 bucks for the Prothy, mission, weapon and outfits because to me its worth it, but to some its not.

But at the end of the day, its not really all that big of a deal now is it?

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

wh00ley 06 wrote...

This is absolutely unacceptable. The difference between Mass Effect 2 and 3 has become the difference between rewarding loyal fans and punishing others. Completely absurd. I've preordered the CE but I'll be rescinding that until I see that this DLC is free over the Alliance Network. Don't let EA bully you, because bullies are all they are.

If anyone is the bully here, it's you "fans".

Rather than being grateful that BioWare has worked their asses off to complete this DLC after it could be inserted into the main game, which they already planned to make for the CE, you all decide to whine and **** about it as if you're entitled to whatever's finished by release day rather than what BioWare feels is the core experience.

Guess what, it's their game.

BioWare took the extra step to allow their loyal fans to purchase the DLC on day 1 at a fair price of $10. The fact that people are openly calling BioWare employees liars just goes to show how entitled some fans think they are.

I'd be disappointed, but quite frankly, I don't expect any better from BSN.

Shepard's story is coming to an epic conclusion, but instead of being appreciative for BioWare's hard work and shelling out all your money for it, you all decide to get on your soapboxes and complain.

For shame.

Modifié par CrustyBot, 23 février 2012 - 12:19 .

[Evilelf007]

I will never agree with anyone who says bonus content of a game should automatically be included for free.

If this wasn't a dlc, it likely would never have made the game at all. This is a nice bonus addition for those willing to pay for it, and since it's bonus, IMO there is no foul in Bioware asking extra for it.

IMO this is GOOD BUISNESS!

[Blarty]

Confused-Shepard wrote...

Blarty wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Blarty wrote...

I want a Batarian squadmate as that has more direct and current influence on ME3 than some 'where the hell am I?' Prothean.... give me my Batarian squaddie, name him 'Brian', give me the DLC on release and make it free!!!! *shakes fist at sky*

You shouldn't shake your fist at the sky, you should...

... bring down the sky!

I'm trying to son, but they won't give me what I want!!!

You know it's stuff like this that makes us look like gullible fools and leads to exploitation
In the games industry, the customer is always WRONG apparently 

But what is true is that not all customers can be right

[Goth Skunk]

It's come to my understanding that there are some people upset about Day 1 DLC.

Bioware, ignore these people.

Hivemind ragers ought to be laughed at and mocked, not listened to.

Modifié par Goth Skunk, 23 février 2012 - 12:19 .

[Vendrium]

Hey at least Activision didn't make the game :-P

[Confused-Shepard]

CrustyBot wrote...

wh00ley 06 wrote...

This is absolutely unacceptable. The difference between Mass Effect 2 and 3 has become the difference between rewarding loyal fans and punishing others. Completely absurd. I've preordered the CE but I'll be rescinding that until I see that this DLC is free over the Alliance Network. Don't let EA bully you, because bullies are all they are.

If anyone is the bully here, it's you "fans".

Rather than being grateful that BioWare has worked their asses off to complete this DLC after it could be inserted into the main game, which they already planned to make for the CE, you all decide to whine and **** about it as if you're entitled to whatever's finished by release day rather than what BioWare feels is the core experience.

Guess what, it's their game.

BioWare took the extra step to allow their loyal fans to purchase the DLC on day 1 at a fair price of $10. The fact that people are openly calling BioWare employees liars just goes to show how entitled some fans think they are.

I'd be disappointed, but quite frankly, I don't expect any better from BSN.

Shepard's story is coming to an epic conclusion, but instead of being appreciative for BioWare's hard work and shelling out all your money for it, you all decide to get on your soapboxes and complain.

For shame.

If they truly cared about the fans regardless of being a business this DLC would either be free with NEW copies or already part of the main game. Instead they saw an oppurtunity to steal an extra $10 from loyal fans and too it
"Hey you guys like Protheans right? That will be 10 dollars!!"

It wouldn't be so bad if it was Blasto the Hanar Spectre as DLC
This is like having Nathan Drake be Day 1 DLC for Uncharted 3
The Protheans are central to the story and Bioware is selling something that will have NO impact on plot

Modifié par Confused-Shepard, 23 février 2012 - 12:21 .

[Draconis6666]

Vendrium wrote...

Hey at least Activision didn't make the game :-P

Yep then we would all pay $80 and not even get the DLC!!

[Blarty]

 If ever a thread needed some light-hearted breathing space.... it's this one

Modifié par Blarty, 23 février 2012 - 12:21 .

[Selor Kiith]

Draconis6666 wrote...

Agree with you 100% on that point you have absolutly no obligation to agree wth their business model, but this forum is a poor place to convey your disagreement. Because it is populated by trolls and ranters to the point where Bioware can hardly be expected to take anything said here seriously. If you truly disagree with their business practices and are not just complaining because you feel that if you complain enough they will give you what you want for free. Then I would urge you to send an email expressing your concerns and your complains to EA and Bioware, in a civil manner that makes it clear to them what it is you disagree with, that you will not be paying for their products while this continues and more importantly what you would like them to do to correct the issue.

Bioware and EA are not mindreaders, even if they decide that the outcry of their customers warrants action they have to decide what action to take, nothing they do will please everyone, but expressing your opinion on the issue to them in a way that is not garbled beneith layers of forum drivle, trolling, and "PRE ORDER CANCLED!!" posts is a far more meaningful approach to the issue.

Oh I am in the process to do so, haven't found the right words yet.
I am just here to make my opinion public and not just closed up behind a PR Spokespersons Desktop PC.
And in fact to test some arguments and analogies, if they are understandable and/or even fitting.

Besides I love a good rant now and then and some people here, on both sides, are especially funny.
It is always hard when two groups that call themselves the same and say they stand for the same thing fight each other on the basis of actually knowing nothing.

I mean sure, I obviously lean to one side and sometimes drift to deep into it but I have decided that neither extreme is any good and that we should talk it out and maybe get more people to actually make a serious attempt of displaying their displeasure with this decision in an appropriate manner and medium (as you said E-Mail), maybe even get some of those that are "Defenders" at the sole reason of "beeing a fan" to reconsider.

But this uncivilized rant does have its good side too.
Eliminating the threats and insults it shows to EA and Bioware how much the Forumbased Fans actually love the game and how they will notice when something in the behaviour has changed.

[Kevin Lozandier]

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

Amikae wrote...

CrustyBot wrote...

Is there any way to pay more than $10 for the Prothean? Because I would love to pay extra if it meant that the haters who have the audacity to question BioWare and even call them liars would keep quiet and stop ruining everyone else's fun.

Seriously guys, you complain over everything.

If Mass Effect 3 were $100 and you had to pay $10 for every squadmate in the game extra, it'd still be worth it because it's BioWare and with BioWare, you know that you get what you pay for.

God forbid we question BioWare/EA. What a mortal sin....

So you're saying Bioware to undo the work they did for some time to seperate this character from the core game, stop the presses of the game currently being reproduced by the thousands for March 6, 2012 and act like those copies and the money spent to make those copies don't exist, and add back something that is at most maybe at most 1-2 additional gameplay + the completely unnecessary additional gun and custome despite all the work and sweat they've made to make it a DLC-worthy package? 


That's insane. They made a decision. Based on their rationale, it made sense. Some aren't going to like it. But the way they have packaged it and the fact that it's included free with those who was likely to appreciate it the most, there's not much of a foul in my opinion.

Considering how other company's DLC have been implemented at the same price range (remember this DLC is MORE than the Prothean), it's reasonable value. 

Unless you wanted an unexpected buggy experience for the final chapter of the Mass Effect series, I think what's not being taken account how long it takes to make games like this, and what factors you have to take into account with an additional content being properly added to a game to be an 'important part of the story'.


This content is for long-faithful fans. It's in the Collector's Edition for free rather than be scrapped like some content before DLC was truly feasible. 

[Cainne Chapel]

Jostle wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Wow even though i've been on BSN for years, the amount of random....whine-ery over Day 1 DLC, at the same time baffles and stuns me.

I can understand being upset, I get that, but to swear off a gaming company as a whole because of it... I just dont see why. I understand the monetary thing but people come on... Video gaming is a luxury, not a necessity, its not food, its not water, its not essential to your life. But with the amount of furor here over a freaking optional team mate...

its downright amazing honestly.

Would it make you feel better for someone to say something along the lines of:

I'm swearing off a game company because, while past titles have been stellar, there has been a steady decline in the quality of the products I have recieved from them. Dragon Age II was garbage. The Old Republic was garbage. The only franchise that is left for me to enjoy (whether it be from a real or percieved lack of quality) is Mass Effect, and the demo along with Day One DLC that seems inappropriate to me is beginning to make me ask the question "Who are you, and what have you done to Bioware?"

Would that be downright amazing? Video gaming is not essential. Neither is football, but that doesn't stop people from becoming fans (it's an abreviation of fanatic, if you weren't aware).

No I get it Jostle, I even understand it.  I'm still amazed by it personally, because most "fans" of stuff I know aren't so easily swayed or jaded.

I've been a Detroit lions fan for 20 years now...granted I dont buy everything lions branded or go or even watch EVERY game, but i've been a consistent fan in those 20 years and we dont exactly have a winning team by the numbers.

I guess i'm just surprised by the amount of suddenly "fair weather" fans the series seems to have drummed up I guess. Maybe its cuz I have a high threshold and it takes more than one average game (DA2) or marketing (which I mostly ignore being IN marketing in a fashion) or even DLC to really rile me.

I also admit I dont think of bioware as some holy game developer either, I just recognize that a LOT of the games they HAVE made, I've enjoyed immensely (BG, BG2, KOTOR, NWN, and so on, though i've never played sonic, MDK2 or shattered steel) So i base my purchases off of that, rather than hype or what not.  So its really hard for me to swear off a whole dev house over a few missteps