13369 réponses à ce sujet

[OdanUrr]

Ap0c_NL wrote...

Sorry but thats why it is good not everybody writes stories they would be rediculously bad.
Another race older than the protheans? :/ come on you can't be serious about that.
There must be an oldest and you can't go back and back and back in time with new spiecies dude!
protheans where 50.000 years ago what do you come up with next then? 100.000 the Marathans, they are even more advanced they do not use mass relay's and the reapers? =/

most people don't have the great vision of the writers of such epic stories and that is why it is good they just ignore most of the talk about story here.

What is more important is that DLC on launch is not fair. Discuss about that 

Why not?

What I'm saying is that, in ME2 (key words), it is not essential for the Collectors to be Protheans. Certainly, they could be another repurposed race and the story would play pretty much the same. Does their being Protheans affect their actions in ME2? Will they stop kidnapping human colonists if they were, say, thoi'han? And why exactly would that be bad writing? I for one have faith that the Bioware writing team could have made it work, don't you?

[Blarty]

finc.loki wrote...

Blarty wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Were once, not anymore. Repurposed. They are Protheans no more.

- And yet the story in ME2 revovles around them.  And still, they are "unimportant".  Gotcha.

The ME2 story revolves around Collectors NOT Protheans of the time before the Prothean extinction - it's like saying that a story revolves around someone from the Iron Age, because someone in the Industrial Age is descended from them, and the story happens to be about the use of Steam Engines. 

You do know that the collectors, are nothing but Gene modified PROTHEANS, didn't you play ME 2? How did that escape you?

Of course I do, and you remember that bit where they went through the Omega 4 relay to the Prothean base and fought all the Protheans..... oh .... wait.... 

My point, which is actually escaping you...... is that the concept, culture and significance of PROTHEANS not COLLECTORS is actually very small within ME2...... Just because Collector's are descended from Protheans does not automatically make ME2 all about Protheans... hence my original argument, so I'll make a new argument, if you believe Darwinism and humans are, allegedly, descended from the same DNA pool as monkeys, it does not make the Pride and Prejudice a 19th Century novel about a bunch or primates that throw their own **** around - ergo the context within which Protheans are nurtured within ME1 (as a overall race & historical plot device, I might add) does not automatically carry over to the context of the Collectors, which by every account are nothing like their Prothean ancestors..... in ME2

[Draconis6666]

obie191970 wrote...

Ap0c_NL wrote...

Sorry but thats why it is good not everybody writes stories they would be rediculously bad.
Another race older than the protheans? :/ come on you can't be serious about that.
There must be an oldest and you can't go back and back and back in time with new spiecies dude!
protheans where 50.000 years ago what do you come up with next then? 100.000 the Marathans, they are even more advanced they do not use mass relay's and the reapers? =/

most people don't have the great vision of the writers of such epic stories and that is why it is good they just ignore most of the talk about story here.

What is more important is that DLC on launch is not fair. Discuss about that 

Dude, you need to brush up your lore.  You couldn't be more wrong.

Yeah its sure not the Protheans since they are only 50,000 years old and the Reapers are MILLIONS of years old

[Gibb_Shepard]

Goth Skunk wrote...

Robin001 wrote...

Bioware !!!

This is really disapointing, how a really good studio can transform to a pease of ****. I mean look at CD Projekt and Witcher 2. Look at Blizzard. These are studios with honesty and glamour. You became a shadow of what you were in past. Its sad, but its true. People curse on you and i dont blame them of doing that. You loose your fans eventually. You dont respect your fans and them will stop respect you !!! I studied economy and this is horrible marketing model.

So wake up Bioware. 

Someone silence this idiot.

Wait, are you seriously disputing that CDPR are not the best damn  video game company in the industry? That cares the most about it's customers?

Because they're objectively THE most generous and caring company out there. There is no opinion on this, it simply is.

[obie191970]

Ap0c_NL wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

Ap0c_NL wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...
To people who never played the first game thats exactly what the reaction is though "oh ok so they were those other aliens now they are these aliens"  Their importance is subjective to your following of the series and its a folowing not everyone has or is even ABLE to experience.

-are the protheans essential to the ME setting? Yes or no? 

Nope could totaly not exist at all with slight rewriting and leave the plot of the series unchanged.

do you reall think the writer came up with protheans in the first place and not show us what their fate was in the end? seriously? you need to open your eyes.

The protheans made the reapers and the reapers turned on the protheans eventually. seems more than obvious to me.

and to respond on your response: Yes ok build around, that's what i meant. but leaving that out means there is no story to tell. do you want to end a story and not knowning where the reapers came from at all?

The Protheans didn't create the Reapers.  The Protheans are just the last known civilization to be wiped out by the Reapers - All Prothean technololgy is based on Reaper tech - The Reapers have been around far longer the Protheans have.

but how do you sell the protheans get to build all these worlds mass relays and structures? by stealing form reapers? if they where just like all the civs in citadel space wouldn't they reapers have wiped them out long before that?

I personally think they reapers have betrayed the protheans and got them by suprise, clearly the protheans where much more advanced than any civ in the current timeline. And all the best tech in the galaxy is made by prothean design, why would there be another more advanced race? maybe God but for the rest it makes no sense..

Dude, the Reapers built the Mass Relays.  The Reapers built the Citadel.  Prothean technology is Reaper Technology.  The Reapers have been wiping out space faring civilizations long before the Protheans even existed.  The Protheans are merely the latest in a long line of Reaper extinction campaigns.

[Errationatus]

Sandoo wrote...

I meant "too far".

For me, buying a dlc that seem that important on day one to reward fans is just abusing the buyers. Not asking you to agree with me, that's just how I feel.

  

Okay, I have no problems with that, you are certainly entitled to feel anyway you think you must.  What I was essentially asking is - how is this "abuse"?  Are you actually being forced to buy this extra content?  If you never knew of its existence, would you consider ME3 somehow unfinished?  I honestly don't understand how optional content could be considered underhanded and a deliberate attempt to crap on fans.  I really wish someone could explain it without the (IMO) misplaced rage.

  
I agree that if I don't like it, I shouldn't buy it. The reality is a bit different because I'm a big mass effect fan and I want ... no, I must know how it ends so I will buy it.
 

  

But you don't have to buy anything to know how it ends.  You will have multiple other sources if it's only the information you want.  You want to experience it for yourself, that's different.  But that still doesn't mean you're entitled to anything. Being a fan does not grant you part ownership of it.  Technically, the game doesn't even belong to you - you're paying sixty-odd for a frigging licence.  Why aren't more people screaming about that?  Until you actually own the content, you really have no real say in that content.  Bioware trying to accomodate you in any fashion is, quite frankly, them doing you the favour.

  
That is why I think they are abusing us (even if it's a strong world, couldn't find a better once since english isn't my native language) because they know very well we want that game and know how the franchise will end. No matter how many dlc they will sell us.
They would never do that kind of thing to a new franchise.

  

Sure they would.  They very likely will.  "Abuse" is too strong a word - so if you have to use something along those lines, perhaps "misuse" is better - even though I still disagree on this point.

  
They will sell a lot of ME3/DLC copies, but my bet is they won't sell many of their upcoming games because some of us will remember this.
Just like I've bought the first mass effect because I knew Bioware were good (bladur's gate, kotor, ...)

  

You have no way of knowing that, and your estimation of the vaulting quality of previous BW games remains your own opinion.

  
And finaly, I know EA / bioware don't care about what I write in the forum, but it's an easy way for me to express my feeling about it.
This is MY point of view. Don't agree with it, like I care.

I wasn't being hostile, merely pointing out that EA - the ones who make the final decisions - couldn't care less for anyone ranting here.  You, me, anybody, no matter how reasonable.  Simple statement of fact.

[TK Dude]

Takamori The Templar wrote...

tldr version: everyone who disagree with me is a idiot.

And that won't help the cause at all if insults still pesist.

[Goth Skunk]

StElmo wrote...

Again, Bioware owe none of you anything. But they owe their brand and franchise some respect. Fact is, day one DLC devalues the brand and the product and sends the wrong message to consumers.

It's like getting a wiff of COD in the air. ergh.

On whos authority does Day 1 DLC devalue the brand? Yours?

Then in that case, nothing of value was lost.

[Melra]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Goth Skunk wrote...

Robin001 wrote...

Bioware !!!

This is really disapointing, how a really good studio can transform to a pease of ****. I mean look at CD Projekt and Witcher 2. Look at Blizzard. These are studios with honesty and glamour. You became a shadow of what you were in past. Its sad, but its true. People curse on you and i dont blame them of doing that. You loose your fans eventually. You dont respect your fans and them will stop respect you !!! I studied economy and this is horrible marketing model.

So wake up Bioware. 

Someone silence this idiot.

Wait, are you seriously disputing that CDPR are not the best damn  video game company in the industry? That cares the most about it's customers?

Because they're objectively THE most generous and caring company out there. There is no opinion on this, it simply is.

You have to be generous when your games are bad.

[PSUHammer]

"The lord tells me he can get me out of this mess (because I bought the CE edition) but, he is pretty sure you're f*cked!"

[Takamori The Templar]

Draconis6666 wrote...

Takamori The Templar wrote...

You are trying to use logics against bioware defense force, its futile.
They will repeat the same argument how you are wrong with different words, instead of reppelling the new arguments throw in the table.

And 80 posts about how the DLC is essentia because its a Prothean and another 60 about how the content was removed completed specificaly for the purpose of selling is any different?

Oh yes already explained several times , answered with ner ner ner im listening to you , protheans not important , even if is the last of then ner ner ner.
Oh bioware charge w/e it want ( Show video and forum logs proving that the development of that character was made back in 2011) Receive a ner ner im not reading , listening or w/e.

Sorry, I enjoy arguments , when they have a progression, but you guys pidgeon hole with a simple not its not.

[Takamori The Templar]

TK Dude wrote...

Takamori The Templar wrote...

tldr version: everyone who disagree with me is a idiot.

And that won't help the cause at all if insults still pesist.

I was being ironic with one of the member that been posting that everyone should STFU and they are idiots

[Errationatus]

Jahannam wrote...

When your a jackass thats just out to attack someone post dumb garbage like this

If I recall correctly, and I do, you started the namecalling, not me.  That I'm better at it p!sses you off?  Tough.  I am reasonable to the reasonable.

Try it sometime.

[OdanUrr]

obie191970 wrote...

Ap0c_NL wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

Ap0c_NL wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...
To people who never played the first game thats exactly what the reaction is though "oh ok so they were those other aliens now they are these aliens"  Their importance is subjective to your following of the series and its a folowing not everyone has or is even ABLE to experience.

-are the protheans essential to the ME setting? Yes or no? 

Nope could totaly not exist at all with slight rewriting and leave the plot of the series unchanged.

do you reall think the writer came up with protheans in the first place and not show us what their fate was in the end? seriously? you need to open your eyes.

The protheans made the reapers and the reapers turned on the protheans eventually. seems more than obvious to me.

and to respond on your response: Yes ok build around, that's what i meant. but leaving that out means there is no story to tell. do you want to end a story and not knowning where the reapers came from at all?

The Protheans didn't create the Reapers.  The Protheans are just the last known civilization to be wiped out by the Reapers - All Prothean technololgy is based on Reaper tech - The Reapers have been around far longer the Protheans have.

but how do you sell the protheans get to build all these worlds mass relays and structures? by stealing form reapers? if they where just like all the civs in citadel space wouldn't they reapers have wiped them out long before that?

I personally think they reapers have betrayed the protheans and got them by suprise, clearly the protheans where much more advanced than any civ in the current timeline. And all the best tech in the galaxy is made by prothean design, why would there be another more advanced race? maybe God but for the rest it makes no sense..

Dude, the Reapers built the Mass Relays.  The Reapers built the Citadel.  Prothean technology is Reaper Technology.  The Reapers have been wiping out space faring civilizations long before the Protheans even existed.  The Protheans are merely the latest in a long line of Reaper extinction campaigns.

I think you just spoilt the series for him.

[Goth Skunk]

Hammer6767 wrote...

"The lord tells me he can get me out of this mess (because I bought the CE edition) but, he is pretty sure you're f*cked!"

This quote + Your avatar = win.

[Blarty]

finc.loki wrote...

Blarty wrote...

Underpower wrote...

If the squadmate wasn't a Prothean, but was a (whatever species, including hanar/elcor) Prothean specialist, then I could buy the regular game, hate I was missing a squadmate and move on. But it's a Prothean. From the impact he's gonna have on Prothean lore, he probably shouldn't be a Prothean. But he is, so I'm not buying the game because it's not complete. 127, 128 pages. This isn't an insignificant issue to be dismissed by slinging 'entitled' around.

Don't buy the DLC then and get the lore from the mass effect wikis after a couple of days, and not feel like you have been cheated - you have not lost anything

By that argument, why buy the game at all, just read the forum spoilers and go on You Tube and watch a 'walkthrough' video.
Stupid arguement, is stupid.
Just like all arguments trying to defend this money grab.

I'm not trying to defend a money grab, but if all you care about is lore, then of course you are correct, why part cash with it, why even play it at all, when you can learn all this stuff on the wikis.... 

Oh and by the way saying 'Stupid argument is stupid' is an irrelevant comment..... 

My point stands if all you care about is lore then why do you even bother to play the game at all never mind buy it?

[Draconis6666]

Ap0c_NL wrote...

but how do you sell the protheans get to build all these worlds mass relays and structures? by stealing form reapers? if they where just like all the civs in citadel space wouldn't they reapers have wiped them out long before that?

I personally think they reapers have betrayed the protheans and got them by suprise, clearly the protheans where much more advanced than any civ in the current timeline. And all the best tech in the galaxy is made by prothean design, why would there be another more advanced race? maybe God but for the rest it makes no sense..

I dont even know where to begin with this post.... I will sum it up by saying this

"I think the Protheans are Essential to the Lore because I dont even know what the lore is and have made up my own. Where things that have been clearly explained multiple times IN GAME and IN CODEX are omitted and simply do not exist"

[PaulSX]

Robin001 wrote...

Bioware !!!

This is really disapointing, how a really good studio can transform to a pease of ****. I mean look at CD Projekt and Witcher 2. Look at Blizzard. These are studios with honesty and glamour. You became a shadow of what you were in past. Its sad, but its true. People curse on you and i dont blame them of doing that. You loose your fans eventually. You dont respect your fans and them will stop respect you !!! I studied economy and this is horrible marketing model.

So wake up Bioware. 

I really wish people stop metioning CD Projekt. It's getting a bit sickening. Bioware is no longer an indepedent game company for a long time right now. You either purchase their games for what they are asking for or refuse their games. I mean it's just easier for both sides.

[Takamori The Templar]

Blarty wrote...

finc.loki wrote...

Blarty wrote...

Underpower wrote...

If the squadmate wasn't a Prothean, but was a (whatever species, including hanar/elcor) Prothean specialist, then I could buy the regular game, hate I was missing a squadmate and move on. But it's a Prothean. From the impact he's gonna have on Prothean lore, he probably shouldn't be a Prothean. But he is, so I'm not buying the game because it's not complete. 127, 128 pages. This isn't an insignificant issue to be dismissed by slinging 'entitled' around.

Don't buy the DLC then and get the lore from the mass effect wikis after a couple of days, and not feel like you have been cheated - you have not lost anything

By that argument, why buy the game at all, just read the forum spoilers and go on You Tube and watch a 'walkthrough' video.
Stupid arguement, is stupid.
Just like all arguments trying to defend this money grab.

I'm not trying to defend a money grab, but if all you care about is lore, then of course you are correct, why part cash with it, why even play it at all, when you can learn all this stuff on the wikis.... 

Oh and by the way saying 'Stupid argument is stupid' is an irrelevant comment..... 

My point stands if all you care about is lore then why do you even bother to play the game at all never mind buy it?

Go back to farmville.

[Poison_Berrie]

The fact that only a smal percentage of those that buy the game buy DLC it seems unlikely that this DLC will have any actually signifigance.
Which is good to know, since I never really needed them to come back especially since they turned them into Jamaican space samurai. So I'll be happy to pass this.

That said I can understand where the outrage is comming from. Day one paid DLC gives people the idea that they are being sqeeuzed for money .
Not to mention that a Prothean is a pretty big deal with regards to the lore so it's quick to assume that this DLC would carry importance to the ME 3 story.

[TK Dude]

suntzuxi wrote...

Robin001 wrote...

Bioware !!!

This is really disapointing, how a really good studio can transform to a pease of ****. I mean look at CD Projekt and Witcher 2. Look at Blizzard. These are studios with honesty and glamour. You became a shadow of what you were in past. Its sad, but its true. People curse on you and i dont blame them of doing that. You loose your fans eventually. You dont respect your fans and them will stop respect you !!! I studied economy and this is horrible marketing model.

So wake up Bioware. 

I really wish people stop metioning CD Projekt. It's getting a bit sickening. Bioware is no longer an indepedent game company for a long time right now. You either purchase their games for what they are asking for or refuse their games. I mean it's just easier for both sides.

Does it matter? Anyone who loves CDPR won't stop praising them like they are the second coming of christ for gaming industry.

P.S: The bold sentence was a joke. 

[LivingHitokiri]

Draconis6666 wrote...

Takamori The Templar wrote...

You are trying to use logics against bioware defense force, its futile.
They will repeat the same argument how you are wrong with different words, instead of reppelling the new arguments throw in the table.

And 80 posts about how the DLC is essentia because its a Prothean and another 60 about how the content was removed completed specificaly for the purpose of selling is any different?

Compared to you that tries to scrap the whole ME story  and alter it just to try to make their opinion to make sense for how many posts  ?
Someone saying that protheans are not essential to the ME universe when we talk about something that got great plot/story/lore significance.
You're trying to turn ME story into a bad written one by throwing random assumptions with IF, and what  bioware could/should do just to try to support your ridiculous statement.
You're ignoring tons of aspects of the game  and balantly try to push your opinion without any basis.
There would be no shepard or any other shepard if Protheans didnt do what they did.

Modifié par LivingHitokiri, 23 février 2012 - 02:13 .

[Jahannam]

JakeMacDon wrote...

Jahannam wrote...

When your a jackass thats just out to attack someone post dumb garbage like this

If I recall correctly, and I do, you started the namecalling, not me.  That I'm better at it p!sses you off?  Tough.  I am reasonable to the reasonable.

Try it sometime.

Dude all I did in my OP was say that I was dissapointed in this decision by bioware. That was it and all....you went on calling me a 12 year old ect...I mean really my post didnt even warrent a response. And here you go again. You are not reasonable otherwise you would have ignored my OP

[Draconis6666]

Takamori The Templar wrote...


Oh yes already explained several times , answered with ner ner ner im listening to you , protheans not important , even if is the last of then ner ner ner.
Oh bioware charge w/e it want ( Show video and forum logs proving that the development of that character was made back in 2011) Receive a ner ner im not reading , listening or w/e.

Sorry, I enjoy arguments , when they have a progression, but you guys pidgeon hole with a simple not its not.

Becasuse its not the defending parties job to progress the argument its the accusing parties and they are the ones who are not significantly progressing the argument in most cases. I have given very clear responses to the claim that "anything released on realease day has to have been already completed and should be on the disc" with fairly detailed descriptions of why this is not so and how the production process actualy works. As have several other people only to 5 posts later have the exact same argument using almost the exact same words.  An argument cannot progress if the initial side ignores the counter and just continues the same argument or then ignores it and just tries to start a completey different unrelated argument.

[Ap0c_NL]

obie191970 wrote...

Ap0c_NL wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

I'm afraid I do. There was no "surprise" effect for me, no "omg what" reaction, just a "seriously?" There was no need for the story to turn the Collectors into Protheans to make sense. After all, we learned in ME1 that Sovereign likely had other tools at its disposal. Saren and his geth, the Keepers, the Protheans who turned on their fellows, husks, etc. The Collectors could've simply been another race repurposed to suit the Reapers' needs and that would've been interesting too. Bringing back the Protheans in this fashion was unnecessary.

-Aha. So yet another generic alien race with chitcnious shells would have been the pinnacle of storytelling then. Right.

Casting the protheans in that role made sense, gave the story a twist, and elaborated on the fate of the protheans. Presto. Kinder egg.

Instead youd expect people to bond and empathze with a newly introduced race that got idoctrinated. Really?  Thats your idea of great storytelling? Thats your idea of getting the audience involved and feeling a bond? 

Tell me something. Have you ever played Pen and pager RPG's? Or read fantasy, or just fiction in general? 

Now you're just being rude. You argued that it was essential for the Collectors to have been Protheans and I believe I have explained that is not so. Whether it's a nice twist or not is a subjective matter. You also seem to think that the mere inclusion of the Protheans constitutes great storytelling. I disagree. It would have been intriguing to learn more about another race, especially one older than the Protheans themselves, that had been repurposed by the Reapers and thus gain new insight on the exact process of indoctrination while, at the same time, learn about this new/old civilization. Imagine if they were the ones who brought down the derelict Reaper in ME2? That would have been a nice twist.

As to your other questions, I have not played pen and paper RPGs. As to my reading habits, I read science fiction, fantasy, historical novels, fiction, biographies, books on science, pretty much everything.

Sorry but thats why it is good not everybody writes stories they would be rediculously bad.
Another race older than the protheans? :/ come on you can't be serious about that.
There must be an oldest and you can't go back and back and back in time with new spiecies dude!
protheans where 50.000 years ago what do you come up with next then? 100.000 the Marathans, they are even more advanced they do not use mass relay's and the reapers? =/

most people don't have the great vision of the writers of such epic stories and that is why it is good they just ignore most of the talk about story here.

What is more important is that DLC on launch is not fair. Discuss about that 

Dude, you need to brush up your lore.  You couldn't be more wrong.

Why? because you say so? And you believe it should go another directioN? 
That is my vision, what is wrong or right is not the point here because we have no part in the development of the storyline anyway.

I read all the books and i played ME1 and ME2 over and over again. I created my own vision on this story by doing so. This is what i hope it will finally be like. Whatever you hope it will be like is your thing but does not mean i am wrong. In my eyes this is the most logical explaination. The reapers made by Protheans. Remember this is human thinking that created this story after all. The fact that robots take over organic life is as old as the day we put mechanic beings in our fantasy books and movies.