13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Warbain]

Dionkey wrote...

msmpsn wrote...

Dionkey wrote...

Going to re-post this from the other thread, hope y'all don't mind.
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Please, let me explain this to you:

Mass Effect 3 is $60
One play-through is said to take 18-24 hours (or around ME2's length).
That means you're getting 1 hour of content for $3, never mind NewGame+

FINE! That's fantastic! That's what a game should be!

However, the DLC chracter is $10.
That means we should expect at least 3-4 hours of content out of that character. We all know that the missions included with these characters are usually 20-30 minutes, along with a bit of dialogue.

THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. If we paid $10 per squaddie, you wouldn't even have a full crew at $60. How would you like buying the game, getting Garrus, Ashley, Vega, Liara, Tali, and The Prothean, and then that's it? No missions, no story, no cutscenes, etc. With this kind of logic, that's exactly what you'd get!

Do you realize how contored this is? Not only this, but the content was finished BEFORE the game went gold, which means they DELIBERATELY removed important content from the game to OVERPRICE it and sell it later.

How about you read what he said?

What else is there to reread? The part where it said that it was finished after tha game went gold? That's BS and you know it. 

I totally agree, this sort of attitude of releasing content like this that should be included in the release and not dlc. If it was cosmetic like new armour, weapons, etc that dont have any real impact & are just there for fun that's fine, but putting an extra sqaud mate in as a Prothian! who is major to the lore as dlc is taking the p**s. I am with anyone who decides that this sort of attitude is wrong. I will not be buying this game & will be canceling my preorder, which really annoys me as I love everything about Mass Effect. I have played both ME1 & 2 and loved them.

[Exia001]

now we're getting on to how ME2 felt incomplete without its downloadable content...

Funny how no one mentioned that until today

[MartinDN]

rainasa wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

rainasa wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

Certification was only reached about two weeks ago, so I don't see what you mean by "well-past".

this is true, but the process of getting a game certified takes much longer, and they cannot alter it in anyway while they wait, and its during this period where From Ashes was made

'From Ashes' has had most of its assets completed since before the demo was forked from the main release, so yeah. :

uh, wrong. the script of it was done and the VO of the squadmate was at least partially completed. the actual making of the DLC didnt happen untill then.

So how do you know this ? Because bioware stated it ? Yeh but they did not explain why the prothean and the voice code was in the early script. Like i said before, its almost guaranteed they lied, but no one can prove it, which its why its a masterstroke by bioware. You either believe them or you dont, and i would if if they was the same company they was 6 years ago.

Modifié par MartinDN, 23 février 2012 - 06:42 .

[AlanC9]

_symphony wrote...

You're just rationalizing BioWare's decision to make Prothy not important to the main plot, sure, he could know nothing, he could have amnesia and not even know he's a prothean and the only one left.

But seriously, this is a wasted oportunity, BioWare brings a member of the race that tried to fight the reapers, and it means nothing. They bring the only prothean alive and the only thing he does is follow Shepard's lead and shoot things? Just for sell some DLC packs?

The race that tried to fight the Reapers? Protheans are just one race of many. The only special things about the protheans are that they were the ones right before humans, and that they apparently did a little better than whatever race(s) came right before the protheans.

[fropas]

Xellana wrote...

fropas wrote...

MostlyAutumn wrote...

Aargh12 wrote...

transcendent12 wrote...
Bioware could well be lying. But until that can be proved (which it can't) Your argument has an invalid premise and is therefore void.

Sure, the leaked script and beta/demo files are not proof/. Sure.

And of course Kasumi and LotSB don't count as counter-arguments. Because everything is already obvious to you.

Wait, was ME2 not a "complete" game because it lacked kasumi and LotSB? Because it didn't feel incomplete when I blew up the collector base.

Oh yes it did. When you met Liara on Illium and you completed the two sidequests for her, didn´t you feel like there should be an additional quest explaining what happened between her and the shadow broker?
I really thought this feels incomplete.

Nope, I helped uncover the mole in her office so I was pretty much content with that. I had collectors to kill dammit. I had no time for the shadow broker on my first play through. And I certainly wouldn't say I felt the game was incomplete.

[loungeshep]

What if Bob the PRothean were the Prothean equivalent of Shepard?

And Bob's only addition to the squad is to whine about the extinction of his race?

[Willasrulz10]

I hope we will be getting some free content after release like previous games, hopefully that will make it up to people who are getting the SE and feel that they are being ripped off. I don't think they are, I understand that once the core game is finished it takes months to finalise everything, and the development team should feel free to add more content. I love more content! I just assume they were planning to announce it as DLC releasing post-launch for SE buyers to purchase, so as not to anger people, but sadly that didn't go to plan. At least I purchased my CE a long while ago

[GuyIncognito21]

AlanC9 wrote...

GuyIncognito21 wrote...
That's my intuition as well.  Why make it a prothean if it's not integral to the plot?  The fact that prothean even still exists is ITSELF an important narrative point (however it's explained).

Why is it important? You keep saying this but I never hear an actual reason.

Let's say one of the stasis pods on Ilos had still been functioning in ME1, and a real live prothean popped out. Sure, he could have told us a bunch of stuff about prothean culture that Vigil didn't. Maybe he could even have been a squadmate for the final mission. This would change.... what?

Again, that logic doesn't work.  Cutting the middle five chapters out of a book doesn't change the ending.  That doesn't mean they're not integral.  Nothing has to "change" at all.

The reason it's important is self-evident.  From the first mission in the first game, Shepard has had some strange connection to the protheans, and the game has repeatedly suggested that the protheans hold the answers to many of the biggest questions in the universe.

I shouldn't have to explain that.  The fact that it's important is the entire reason people are upset about this, and it's the exact reason that BW/EA have decided they can rake in the money by withholding it.

[Sinnerj117]

Wardka wrote...

You don't have my support, Michael Gamble. If this is the future of BioWare/EA gaming, I don't want any part of it.

Can't tell if troll or just...nevermind.

[transcendent12]

fropas wrote...

MostlyAutumn wrote...

Aargh12 wrote...

transcendent12 wrote...
Bioware could well be lying. But until that can be proved (which it can't) Your argument has an invalid premise and is therefore void.

Sure, the leaked script and beta/demo files are not proof/. Sure.

And of course Kasumi and LotSB don't count as counter-arguments. Because everything is already obvious to you.

Wait, was ME2 not a "complete" game because it lacked kasumi and LotSB? Because it didn't feel incomplete when I blew up the collector base.

also considering the extremely complicate multistaged multi teamed planning processes which go into these games. Are bioware not allowed to plan DLC?

It is conceivable that DLC sells best when it is close to the release of the actual game. While people are actually still playing. DLC SHOULD be planned as non game critical components (Again back to "is bioware lying about its story significance") But there's nothing wrong with planning non integral DLC to maximise game lifetime profits. If partial content can be finalised for the DLC or at least have a place holder in the game. This reduces the download size that the consumer has to deal with post launch. This in turn incurrs less band width cost to the developer who must host the DLC on their servers.

So this argument can be argued against. The timing and scripting of preplanned DLC can make this (at least partially)acceptable.

[ArkkAngel007]

Yuoaman wrote...

rainasa wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

rainasa wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

Certification was only reached about two weeks ago, so I don't see what you mean by "well-past".

this is true, but the process of getting a game certified takes much longer, and they cannot alter it in anyway while they wait, and its during this period where From Ashes was made

'From Ashes' has had most of its assets completed since before the demo was forked from the main release, so yeah. :

uh, wrong. the script of it was done and the VO of the squadmate was at least partially completed. the actual making of the DLC didnt happen untill then.

...no. I'm sorry, but that's all kinds of wrong.

No he is.  Most of the actual programming is not on the main disk.  The VO, model, and general interactactions with the game proper (cinematic markers for example) is in there, but the mission, alt. armor, and overall touch-ups are not in there.  So no, most of the assets were not included on the main disk.

[Wulfram]

Really, defining a "complete game" is like arguing over the length of a piece of string. DA:O could have arguably been called complete if it just included Ostagar, Redcliffe and Denerim, and Morrigan, Alistair and Dog.

But for me the line has to be drawn somewhere. And I draw that line at "includes all major content available on release". To do otherwise is to ask me to put more trust than I'm willing in businesses who are fundamentally out to make a profit.

[AlanC9]

Yuoaman wrote...

PhoenixBlue wrote...
Remember when folks found hooks (narrative, voice files, etc.) pertaining to the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC in ME2? Was anyone complaining then about Bioware and EA trying to shaft people when they finally released Lair of the Shadow Broker about a year after ME2's release?

The difference is that "Lair of the Shadow Broker" wasn't completed before the game released.

Right. Isn't that even worse? Not only do you have to pay for it, you have to wait to pay for it.

[Knightsaber2010]

Just would like to know if the DLC comes with the Digital Deluxe edition as well. Searching didn't bring up anything useful, or I failed at searching somehow.

[wrdnshprd]

Nodnol88 wrote...

For a start, I don't understand why Bioware is garnering such hate, when the reality is EA, as publisher, would be the key behind this, particulary the price etc. Even then, do people not remember what EA use to be like? They have turned themselves round and now house/own some of the best developers in the industry, not to mention some of my favourite. Anyone who doesn't remember that, think Activision now, only worse.

There is a fundamental flaw when it comes to complaining about DLC; no one is forcing you to buy it. As with most purchases, it is not a necessity in life; you simply want it. The fact is, people buy DLC by the bucket loads. For any series publisher and developer to remain competitive, DLC will continue to be produced because it SELLS. Hell COD map packs sell like hot cakes. People moan about the stale nature of the gameplay as it is with COD, and yet swarms of people still buy the content.

DLC is a feature that won't be going away.

Am I disappointed that something as important as a Prothean is "demoted" to DLC? Slightly. However as a soon to be CE owner it doesn't effect me anymore then it already did. I can understand people's frustrations, but as I said originally, if you don't agree with it, don't buy it. It's as simple as that.

Now I've been a fan of Bioware since the Baldur's Gate days, and they have only gown from strength to strength since then. Sure, they've dropped the ball from time to time, but what developer hasn't? They aren't beyond criticism, but they certainly deserve more respect than has been shown around here since this was all rumored.

couple problems..

for one, as ive tried to get answered many times.. how is this different than the zaeed and shale DLC that WAS free REGARDLESS OF VERSION.  i still havent heard any justification why this dlc is magically different.

secondly, this kind of practice wasnt going on with the previous two games, therefore i had no problem investing my time, and overall enjoyed my experience.  thus, i want to see the conclusion to the story.   its one of the main reasons im pretty ticked off.

so im stuck.. either i stick with my principles and boycott EA/Bioware for what they've done.. or i suck it up and buy the third game.

unfortunately im going the latter route.. why?  because they've already got me here.. its the third game in the trilogy.. and as stated above, they didnt pull stunts like this in the previous two games.  also, i want to finish the story ive already invested time into.

i can tell you this much, if they do anything like this going forward... you can bet i wont be supporting their future franchises.

[Merengues 1945]

Exia001 wrote...

now we're getting on to how ME2 felt incomplete without its downloadable content...

Funny how no one mentioned that until today

maybe because that dlc were free if you buyed a new copy... this dlc its expensive even if you buy a new copy.

[LinksOcarina]

mjharper wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

To my friends who do graphic design and things,

Does having voice files and the remnants of locked out content from a video game mean the content was cut from the game, or can it also mean that they are planning to add content that pertains to certain things in a DLC pack?

Simple question really, does it make sense to have markers and prepared animations and dialogue in a final product with the intention of implementation of additional content from a later date?

I'm not a graphic designer, but I'd say yes. For example, you can't animate speech unless you've got the speech to begin with. But it would be good to hear from professionals.

Very true. I said something similar a few pages back about how the entire process of coding and fixing bugs is a wholly other beast to contend with, which would explain a lot of things if it was the case.

[AlanC9]

Wulfram wrote...

Really, defining a "complete game" is like arguing over the length of a piece of string. DA:O could have arguably been called complete if it just included Ostagar, Redcliffe and Denerim, and Morrigan, Alistair and Dog.

I think you'd need Leliana too, so you can have a rogue in the party if the PC isn't one.

[AkiKishi]

Exia001 wrote...

now we're getting on to how ME2 felt incomplete without its downloadable content...

Funny how no one mentioned that until today

It's not the same because there was no way to complete those files at lauch. The issue here is that Bioware is selling two versions of the game. The complete version with the CE and the incomplete version with SE.

In the case of ME2 if you bought the game new you had what you needed to make the game complete. In the case of ME3 you are being charged for it.

[MostlyAutumn]

Yuoaman wrote...

The difference is that "Lair of the Shadow Broker" wasn't completed before the game released.

That difference is not enough to prove that Prothean DLC was ready when the game went to the certification.

Modifié par MostlyAutumn, 23 février 2012 - 06:46 .

[rob593]

LotSB is in my opinion a perfect example of how to do DLC, From Ashes as a perfect example of how NOT to do DLC.

I'm done with this thread, would you believe I never intended to buy the game in the first place, funny heh.

Everybody relax... and enjoy ME3

[fropas]

Knightsaber2010 wrote...

Just would like to know if the DLC comes with the Digital Deluxe edition as well. Searching didn't bring up anything useful, or I failed at searching somehow.

Yes it does.

[transcendent12]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

GuyIncognito21 wrote...
That's my intuition as well.  Why make it a prothean if it's not integral to the plot?  The fact that prothean even still exists is ITSELF an important narrative point (however it's explained).

Why is it important? You keep saying this but I never hear an actual reason.

Let's say one of the stasis pods on Ilos had still been functioning in ME1, and a real live prothean popped out. Sure, he could have told us a bunch of stuff about prothean culture that Vigil didn't. Maybe he could even have been a squadmate for the final mission. This would change.... what?

Again, that logic doesn't work.  Cutting the middle five chapters out of a book doesn't change the ending.  That doesn't mean they're not integral.  Nothing has to "change" at all.

The reason it's important is self-evident.  From the first mission in the first game, Shepard has had some strange connection to the protheans, and the game has repeatedly suggested that the protheans hold the answers to many of the biggest questions in the universe.

I shouldn't have to explain that.  The fact that it's important is the entire reason people are upset about this, and it's the exact reason that BW/EA have decided they can rake in the money by withholding it.

Do you feel entitled to extended edition DVD/bluray after you've already bought the theatrical release DVD?

If bioware had planned to do a prequel game on the protheans before they did the trilogy. Would you feel entitlited to its content just because it has relevance to the entire universe of mass effect? No.

[rainasa]

MartinDN wrote...

So how do you know this ? Because bioware stated it ? Yeh but they did not explain why the prothean and the voice code was in the early script. Like i said before, its almost guaranteed they lied, but no one can prove it, which its why its a masterstroke by bioware. You either believe them or you dont, and i would if if they was the same company they was 6 years ago.

the prothean was a main plot point in the FIRST leaked script, and was was totally absent from the second, this could mean they removed it due to time constraints or because they didnt feel the quality of his story wasnt up to par, but instead of just gutting him they planned for him to be released as DLC. I dont see how this is so shocking. content that was cut from early stages of planning being added into the game later as a DLC or an expansion isnt exactly a new thing.

Modifié par rainasa, 23 février 2012 - 06:49 .

[Wulfram]

AlanC9 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Really, defining a "complete game" is like arguing over the length of a piece of string. DA:O could have arguably been called complete if it just included Ostagar, Redcliffe and Denerim, and Morrigan, Alistair and Dog.

I think you'd need Leliana too, so you can have a rogue in the party if the PC isn't one.

If you were going to have one rogue, it would probably be Zevran.  He's got more to do with the main plot than Leliana.

(As does the Prothean, simply because he's a Prothean)