13369 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

rainasa wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...



Irrelevent.

Nothing to do with what he does or does not do only that his files exist on the game disk and you are being charged and additional fee to access them which makes the game disk incomplete.

uh, only certian parts are on the main disk, and they did this exactly with both kasumi and LotSB so this argument really doesnt work.

Any part of the content on disk qualifies.

I got my ME2 with all the DLC so I don't know this. Was Kasumi available on day 1 ? Because if she was not, again this does not apply.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 23 février 2012 - 07:24 .

[bennyjammin79]

FFS shut up already.

[DaJe]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...


To prove that an advertisement is false, a plaintiff must prove five things: (1) a false statement of fact has been made about the advertiser's own or another person's goods, services, or commercial activity; (2) the statement either deceives or has the potential to deceive a substantial portion of its targeted audience; (3) the deception is also likely to affect the purchasing decisions of its audience; (4) the advertising involves goods or services in interstate commerce; and (5) the deception has either resulted in or is likely to result in injury to the plaintiff. The most heavily weighed factor is the advertisement's potential to injure a customer. The injury is usually attributed to money the consumer lost through a purchase that would not have been made had the advertisement not been misleading. False statements can be defined in two ways: those that are false on their face and those that are implicitly false.

Read more: http://www.answers.c...g#ixzz1nEWoskV4

Would you say it was a reasonable expectation that a game you bought would be complete ?

Would be a textbook case, except one problem?  There is no case.

You weren't lied to.  The DLC was intended as DLC.  Plain and simple.  I don't know how many ways it has to be said for people to understand it.  

You know what would be false advertisement? Giving this DLC free to everyone despite the fact that the CE was advertised as having a "bonus DLC squadmate and mission." Then it no longer becomes a bonus for the CE. This DLC was one of the three primary factors in my decision to buy the CE over the SE. The other two were the art book and the digital soundtrack...so that hits (3) right there.

Did you know it was a prothean when you made the decision? As far as I'm concerned a guy like Vega as DLC character would have been much less problematic.

I think a big point of the whole issue is that in the opinion of many fans a prothean should not be "extra" content but part of the game either way, due to it's significance in the whole franchise.

A collectors edition should add additional items like art books, the soundtrack, making of documentary, N7 patch etc. for tadadadadaa... collectors.
But it should not complete the main product. It's not about collecting anymore, it has become about premium gamers that are willing to spend more cash for the complete game.

I can understand that you want something in return for your CE, but imo it should not be something that important to the lore.

[CDRSkyShepard]

BobSmith101 wrote...

No, legally thats fine. It's bonus in addition to the content of the CE. If it was the only thing in the CE then it would be false advertising.

Unless it says "exclusive to" it's not a problem. If it does say "exclusive to" then they are already in breach by selling it somewhere else.

The DLC itself isn't exclusive, no, but the fact that it comes free with purchase is exclusive to the CE, not the SE. Always has been intended that way. Always.

[blindchaos]

While DLC on Day 1 always inspires questions as to whether or not the game is being dissected and sold in smaller pieces, the sudden outrage feels a tad disingenuous. The CE was announced as having a Prothen squad member. The Prothy nickname came out hours after the CE announcement.

Even if you didn't know it was a prothean, you knew there was going to be a day 1 dlc character that CE owners would already have in their purchase.

The fact that this thread did not exist in June or July when a real difference could have been made, implies that most people passively condoned Day 1 DLC when they didn't care what the species was. Now that it has been confirmed as a prothean it is a violation of gamers rights?

I'm not defending Day 1 DLC, as I find the practice troubling to say the least. However, the frequent claims that those who are not screaming and yelling at bioware are simple minded pawns feels crude and false. We all knew this was coming, either vote with your wallets or buy the DLC.

[kidbd15]

Wouldn't you rather have been surprised by the Prothean reveal in-game instead of it being marketed as a DLC to buy?

Seems more like a slap in the face to long time ME fans than a bonus.

[Calians]

Bluumberry wrote...

Calians wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Are they alienating their customer base, or just GuyIncognito21and a few people who agree with him?

We'll find out soon enough how "few" those people are.  It's pretty simple to get a ballpark of how many free copies are floating around.

The fact that this thread is the ungodly lenght it is suggests that it's more than a few people who don't appreciate this nonsense.

Not when so many of the posts in the thread are from you and me and a handful of others.

If you go around the internet and 3rd party gamer sites theres a lot of blacklash

Gee I wonder why. People always moan more when they're unhappy, while the people who don't crae usually stay quiet.

A lot of people who are buying this game don't even have any idea about the dlc and most likely don't care either.

I was just saying or rather pointing out that some of you are just blantly saying it won't affect anything. Maybe it will maybe it won't we won't be able to tell until launch day....

meanwhile in TOR.....
I'm so alone on infinate empire

Modifié par Calians, 23 février 2012 - 07:25 .

[Yuoaman]

rainasa wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

I'll reiterate this: the Deception thread also had a handful of regulars who kept the thread going strong, we were still able to convince Bioware to take action.

Deception was an aberration against the lore of the entire series as a whole, while this is a debate for releasing content that was made while as they awaited certification as priced DLC. you really cannot compare the two of them.

I'm not comparing the issue, I'm comparing the fan response.

[Yuoaman]

bennyjammin79 wrote...

FFS shut up already.

I'd really prefer not to, if that's alright with you.

[fropas]

austinsj82 wrote...

One question i'd like answering, is if the prothean was intended as DLC and not complete when the main game was certified, why then was the "extra charecter" promised to purchasers of the Collectors Edition months ago. The SE and CE both launch on the same day, and if they didn't have time to finish it before launch then they would have a lot of pissed off collector's edition purchasers on their hands. It seems that the only explanation is they intentionally either put off finishing the charecter/mission until the game had gone gold so they could justify charging extra, or they finished it beforehand and are blatantly lying about it.. 

Yes, this human understands! I would totally be pissed I paid more money for more content, and then I'd have to wait for it. That's BS. I'd feel BW should wait to get my 10$ till they give me the content I paid 80$ for.

[Lufven1]

TheStoner wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Would you say it was a reasonable expectation that a game you bought would be complete ?

Sure. And ME3 will be complete.

How do you conclude that ? Playable and complete are not the same thing.

Only the CE will be complete. The SE can be complete for an additional £10.

The guy won't have a measurable impact on the story itself, which means the narrative doesn't change. Ergo, the game is complete with or without him. Whether or not YOU want to hear more about Prothean history as a fan is another matter. If that is important to YOU, then you can buy the DLC. It is not, however, important to the main story of ME3, or it wouldn't be DLC.

Your arguement:
The prothean probably won't change the narrative therfore the game is complete without him.
Your arguement brought to it's logical conclusion:
Removing all but 4 of your ME2 companions would not change the narrative therefore the game is complete without them.

Brilliant. Let's remove all but Shepard as I'm sure he can save the universe all by himself. You can add other characters too, for 5$ each. Don't want to pay? You don't have to. The game is complete with just Shepard...

[Bluumberry]

blindchaos wrote...

While DLC on Day 1 always inspires questions as to whether or not the game is being dissected and sold in smaller pieces, the sudden outrage feels a tad disingenuous. The CE was announced as having a Prothen squad member. The Prothy nickname came out hours after the CE announcement.

Even if you didn't know it was a prothean, you knew there was going to be a day 1 dlc character that CE owners would already have in their purchase.

The fact that this thread did not exist in June or July when a real difference could have been made, implies that most people passively condoned Day 1 DLC when they didn't care what the species was. Now that it has been confirmed as a prothean it is a violation of gamers rights?

I'm not defending Day 1 DLC, as I find the practice troubling to say the least. However, the frequent claims that those who are not screaming and yelling at bioware are simple minded pawns feels crude and false. We all knew this was coming, either vote with your wallets or buy the DLC.

Barely anyone cared...until Totalbiscuit started this hulabaloo.

[GuyIncognito21]

blindchaos wrote...
Even if you didn't know it was a prothean, you knew there was going to be a day 1 dlc character that CE owners would already have in their purchase.

Again, though, if you didn't know it was a prothean, then you had no reason to complain in the first place really.  If it was some worthless nothing like Zaeed, I for one wouldn't be complaining about it.  Not in July and not now.

The fact that they wilfully withheld the full details of the DLC until the 11th hour should not be to their credit, it just reeks of shady practices.

[Zealstarwind]

 So you know, because of the rampant ammount of DLC I've canceled my preorder and have convinced my friends to cancel as well. I'm speaking with my money and this is not acceptable. I've been a fan since day 1, I've split my pc gaming to two systems, Origin and Steam, Steam has tons of sales and is easy to download almost anything... almost anything but new EA titles.

Bioware you've gone too far and dont pull the bullshiz of, "Hey EA made us" or "We honestly want to give the fans their money worth" As far as EA goes, I made a huge stand against them last year and refused to buy anything with their name on the box. Long before I made the exception for ME because I believed you all were in to making amazing games that enhance what was an already spectacular game. ME2 added stuff I felt were only churned out to fill the role of DLC (honestly, costume packs and weapon/armor packs are terrible excuses to flaunt yourself as someone who has money.).

I bought all but those for ME2, now ME3 I wont even see because of jumping into bed with so many companies, the iOS game coming out to tie in, terrible. I actually was excited for the multiplayer, I said to all those naysayers that this would expand upon my emersion into the universe of ME, its exciting and fresh. I played the demo, was blown away by the graphics and what you all had done but as soon as I tried to log in for the multiplayer, I got into a game then crashed, tried again, crashed. Hey guess who's at the door... A CRASH!

I love Bioware, I love that you guys want to bring us all this fantastic DLC that can enhance the game after you complete it, selling DLC for stuff to add to the exsisting game should be frowned upon unless the experience was something like the shadow broker. I want the prothean squad mate, I really do. I'd go to the ends of the universe to unlock him, but I'd not pay real money (specially if you add up ALL of the DLC, and me I'm a completionist, I have to finish every aspect of a game and DLC is one of those sad exploitation of others just like me.

I'm sure my friends and I canceling our collectors editions is nothing to you as a company but I hope others follow this example and cancel theirs.

[AkiKishi]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

No, legally thats fine. It's bonus in addition to the content of the CE. If it was the only thing in the CE then it would be false advertising.

Unless it says "exclusive to" it's not a problem. If it does say "exclusive to" then they are already in breach by selling it somewhere else.

The DLC itself isn't exclusive, no, but the fact that it comes free with purchase is exclusive to the CE, not the SE. Always has been intended that way. Always.

That means Bioware could release the DLC free and not face action (legal) from CE buyers.

[Yuoaman]

blindchaos wrote...

While DLC on Day 1 always inspires questions as to whether or not the game is being dissected and sold in smaller pieces, the sudden outrage feels a tad disingenuous. The CE was announced as having a Prothen squad member. The Prothy nickname came out hours after the CE announcement.

Even if you didn't know it was a prothean, you knew there was going to be a day 1 dlc character that CE owners would already have in their purchase.

The fact that this thread did not exist in June or July when a real difference could have been made, implies that most people passively condoned Day 1 DLC when they didn't care what the species was. Now that it has been confirmed as a prothean it is a violation of gamers rights?

I'm not defending Day 1 DLC, as I find the practice troubling to say the least. However, the frequent claims that those who are not screaming and yelling at bioware are simple minded pawns feels crude and false. We all knew this was coming, either vote with your wallets or buy the DLC.

I, up until the last couple of days, had assumed that the DLC would be treated like Zaeed and be included with all new versions of the game, even when it was leaked on XBL I was still under this impression.

I am no longer under this impression.

[Poison_Berrie]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Bingo.  It must be beyond dispute that the importance of the prothean is the entire selling point of this scheme.  Otherwise they would have picked a more ancillary character to make a superfluous addition.

And you said it perfectly for why "well maybe the Prothean isn't important" isn't a valid argument.  It may well be true, but if it is true then it raises an entirely different set of alarming concerns.

I think it is more the latter and considering the dialogue he quotes that pretty much confirms it. 
He's a character that either would have served as an important part of the plot integrated into the standard game or not present at all. 

The fact that he is not a less used race (Batarian), but a member of the extinct Protheans yet still is not essential to the story really feels like we should be going "Wait whut?"
I don't agree that you can't have day1 DLC, but BioWare really didn't think this through from a story standpoint.

That said, I'm therefor happy that I never have to be bothered by that simply by keeping a ten euro note in my e-wallet.

[Exia001]

I'm still failing to understand how the game is incomplete without extra character.you still get all the missions, weapons, characters, story plots, cinematics, disc, case...

If this is all because of the fact that the its a Prothean, you don't know what impact will have on the game he may just be a squad neighbour walks around with you is that really worth the entire bounty of rage that has taken place, we don't know what impact is going to have on the story.

Using the argument that the game is not complete without the character is the same as saying that number two, was not complete without Zaeed, it's just a character is not as if they're asking you to pay to see the end, that would be stupid it's just a companion that you may or may not choose to use, I just think the argument of a vast games such as this not being complete without the inclusion of one solitary character is daft.

[ArkkAngel007]

Difference between this and Deception: People actually knew what they were talking about with Deception. This is just a bunch of people spouting out flawed opinions and trying to pass them off as fact, while very few of us give actual, evidence-based views on both ends of the issue.

[rainasa]

Hardwired wrote...

And one has to take into account that the amount of players that actually post about these sorts of things are statisticly far less than the ones that can't be bothered with posting. So the number of people that object to this could be substantial.

and the fact that most of those people are the same TB fans just posting the same thing on each of them over and over again to "spread the word" like this thread in general, neither side can claim to be the "majority" because its really has just been the same dozen or so people both for AND those against it.

[CDRSkyShepard]

DaJe wrote...

Did you know it was a prothean when you made the decision? As far as I'm concerned a guy like Vega as DLC character would have been much less problematic.

I think a big point of the whole issue is that in the opinion of many fans a prothean should not be "extra" content but part of the game either way, due to it's significance in the whole franchise.

A collectors edition should add additional items like art books, the soundtrack, making of documentary, N7 patch etc. for tadadadadaa... collectors.
But it should not complete the main product. It's not about collecting anymore, it has become about premium gamers that are willing to spend more cash for the complete game.

I can understand that you want something in return for your CE, but imo it should not be something that important to the lore.

Nope, but I heard whispers and rumors shortly after I pre-ordered, and it made me glad I did.

See, the fact that it's the opinion of the fandom that it should have been included that's making the whole argument faulty, here. The facts are that the Prothean was the intended "special DLC" for the CE since the CE was announced. Whether people knew about it or not is irrelevant. If you wanted a bonus squadmate without paying a premium in addition to the cost of your game, you pre-ordered the CE. That simple. Shouldn't matter who it was. You take a gamble that you'll miss out on something cool if you turn an opportunity like that down.

DLC does not complete the main product, especially if it was content designed to be DLC. Then it is just an extra, an add-on. I don't care at what point it was developed relative to the main game. DLC is DLC, it is not "main game."

[pavi132]

What bugs me is that they were thinking about DLC before the game was even finished. To me, DLC shouldn't even be considered until the main game is complete. Otherwise, whether consciously or not, the DLC will have an impact on the development of the main game, even if the two are made by separate teams, and could even dilute the quality of the main game as a result. That is what worries me most about this. While they can tell us that one has no effect on the other, it is hard for me to believe that.

[WizenSlinky0]

Lufven1 wrote...


Brilliant. Let's remove all but Shepard as I'm sure he can save the universe all by himself. You can add other characters too, for 5$ each. Don't want to pay? You don't have to. The game is complete with just Shepard...

Technically, you could. Except you'd have to be left with at least Ashley and Vega since it would be incomplete if you have room for three party members but you don't have any party members to put in it.

[AlanC9]

BobSmith101 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

So "complete" means... what? If it means having all the content, then there's no such thing as a "complete" ME3 until Bio stops releasing DLC for ME3.

You obviously mean something else by "complete." What?

Complete means one version of the game on release.

 What happens after release is completely different.

Well, if that's what you mean by "complete," then I guess it's consistent.

But it doesn't strike me as a useful or even sensible definition. The Illearth War was a complete novel even if Gilden-Fire was sitting on Donaldson's desk when I bought it. My car's a complete car without any of the options I didn't buy. A movie is complete even if you're not watching the extended director's cut. I can't think of any circumstance where your definition of "complete" works.

[Daywalker315]

TheStoner wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Would you say it was a reasonable expectation that a game you bought would be complete ?

Sure. And ME3 will be complete.

How do you conclude that ? Playable and complete are not the same thing.

Only the CE will be complete. The SE can be complete for an additional £10.

The guy won't have a measurable impact on the story itself, which means the narrative doesn't change. Ergo, the game is complete with or without him. Whether or not YOU want to hear more about Prothean history as a fan is another matter. If that is important to YOU, then you can buy the DLC. It is not, however, important to the main story of ME3, or it wouldn't be DLC.

Your arguement:
The prothean probably won't change the narrative therfore the game is complete without him.
Your arguement brought to it's logical conclusion:
Removing all but 4 of your ME2 companions would not change the narrative therefore the game is complete without them.

So removing 8 squadmates and 8 corresponding recruit and loyalty missions is the same as 1 and a single mission, always designed as DLC therefore the main story MUST be able to be completed without him? Interesting. Once again, you're throwing your A game with that one.