13369 réponses à ce sujet

[chuzo]

Bluumberry wrote...

chuzo wrote...

3. Spread the word of Bioware/EA’s unethical behavior (not that it needs any more spreading )

"unethical"? Do you even know what that means?

I do do you?

[blindchaos]

I mean no offense by my posts, I appreciate that this is a topic worthy of discussion and don't fault anyone for being upset. My only issue is with the framing of the argument. Everyone only seems to care because they either

A) Forgot that the CE was shipping out with a character, and that that character was going to come out as DLC

Didn't care until it was revealed to be a Prothean and are now trying to frame this argument as one against DLC, when in fact they are more upset about it being a species they think is central to the narative.

If the argument is that a Prothean squad member should never have been offered as a promotional tool for the CE and should have always been in the SE, then I can understand and agree. Though I do think if that's the case this argument needed to have started back in June.

However, if the argument against this DLC is being framed around the broader issue of Day 1 DLC, and the cutting of content form a games release, then the passive acceptance of the CE's features in June hurts that argument.

I hope I am being clear, and I again mean no offense to anyone involved in this forum as I can appreciate how big an issue this is for all involved on both sides.

[Maeshone]

wrdnshprd wrote...

still not hearing the apologists give an explanation as to how this DLC is different from the zaeed and shale dlc that was FREE regardless of version, as long as you bought the game new..

exactly why couldnt they do the same thing with this dlc?

still waiting for a response..

yeah, thats what i thought.

THIS is why people are upset. and they have every right to be.

Actually that was answered. It's because those things were ONLY free to combat used game sales. For ME3 they do this with the multiplayer pass. The Prothean was always intended as a CE bonus, not a "buy new" incentive. end of

[Calians]

Tazzmission wrote...

rumbalumba wrote...

OmegaXI wrote...

Dear god people DLC is the way the gaming industry works now. One it keeps the people who make the games we love working longer. Two it is a way to add more to the product. Besides its ten bucks and you don't have to buy it.

Back on topic any word on when the trailers and images are coming out for the Day 1 DLC?

WRONG. Bioware employees work on a contractual-basis. so it's utter bullcrap if you think Bioware lays off employees after making ME3 and by doing DLC they can work longer. utter and total BS. it's in their clauses to work on a DLC, it's been planned from the start. they don't sit there and say "oh god we dont wanna lay you off therefore you need something to do for our fans". that's stupid and just false.

fact is that you're already paying $60 for a brand new, full game. and they want you to shell out $10 for a COMPLETE experiece? do they think people are so stupid and naive?

oh god seriously shut up thats the WHOLE WHOLE WHOLE FN industry!

are you seriously mentally challenged or do you just pull things out of your behind?

Whoa man watch the language before stanely woo comes in here, you'll get this blocked. <_<

[rumbalumba]

Tazzmission wrote...

rumbalumba wrote...

OmegaXI wrote...

Dear god people DLC is the way the gaming industry works now. One it keeps the people who make the games we love working longer. Two it is a way to add more to the product. Besides its ten bucks and you don't have to buy it.

Back on topic any word on when the trailers and images are coming out for the Day 1 DLC?

WRONG. Bioware employees work on a contractual-basis. so it's utter bullcrap if you think Bioware lays off employees after making ME3 and by doing DLC they can work longer. utter and total BS. it's in their clauses to work on a DLC, it's been planned from the start. they don't sit there and say "oh god we dont wanna lay you off therefore you need something to do for our fans". that's stupid and just false.

fact is that you're already paying $60 for a brand new, full game. and they want you to shell out $10 for a COMPLETE experiece? do they think people are so stupid and naive?

oh god seriously shut up thats the WHOLE WHOLE WHOLE FN industry!

are you seriously mentally challenged or do you just pull things out of your behind?

why dont you shut up? did you even read the guy's post? he said DLC is the only way to keep peoepl from working which i said was false because it really is false. somehow im mentall challenged? such a pathetic response.

[Dionkey]

EDIT: Just going to remove this so I don't have to edit it a million times.

Back to individual replies. <_<

Modifié par Dionkey, 23 février 2012 - 07:51 .

[obie191970]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Lufven1 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

kidbd15 wrote...

Wouldn't you rather have been surprised by the Prothean reveal in-game instead of it being marketed as a DLC to buy?

This, it would have been an epic moment, but now it's just "oh hey there prothy, sleep well?. lets got kick some ass"

Sure, but that cat's been out of the bag for months.

They would have announced the DLC tomorrow if it weren't for that xbox-market-fail. And don't come and say that everybody knew about it. Only people willing to invest a lot of time finding it or reading forums would. I'm not saying that it's anything wrong with that but I'm guessing 99% of the Mass Effect audience don't do that.

This has gone beyond the forums. The thing is if you could challenge them legally it would more than likely result in the delay of ME3 and I don't want hordes of people after me. Although some hotshot legal eagle could have some fun with this just in publicity terms.

Seriously?  Are you that naive?  Nothing that Bioware has done warrants legal action - It doesn't have a leg to stand on.

[fropas]

wrdnshprd wrote...

still not hearing the apologists give an explanation as to how this DLC is different from the zaeed and shale dlc that was FREE regardless of version, as long as you bought the game new..

exactly why couldnt they do the same thing with this dlc?

still waiting for a response..

yeah, thats what i thought.

THIS is why people are upset. and they have every right to be.

How can I answer for Bioware? It's free for me. I bought the CE, so they kind of are doing the sasme thing. . .for me.

[Frailstrength]

AlanC9 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Sure, but that cat's been out of the bag for months.

For a lot of people like me who have been trying very hard to avoid details in case of spoilers it, the cat was only just let out of the bag.

IIRC it was widely talked about this summer. I can see how Bio might have felt that it's just common knowledge by now; sorry that you weren't able to get to the release without hearing it.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the original plan was for this to have been a big reveal, and it was only after the leak that Bio decided to make Prothy into the day 1 DLC rather than something else.

Actually, I do believe that he was intended to be DLC from the beginning. I think it will be interesting to see how much of an impact he has on the overall story. If he doesn't really have one (as I suspect is likely), then I wonder if the tune will change or not. People often claim their arguments to be logical when they are really very emotional. If the Prothean has no real bearing on the story, then will the angry people subside? Or will they cling to their anger?

[Bluumberry]

wrdnshprd wrote...

still not hearing the apologists give an explanation as to how this DLC is different from the zaeed and shale dlc that was FREE regardless of version, as long as you bought the game new..

exactly why couldnt they do the same thing with this dlc?

still waiting for a response..

yeah, thats what i thought.

THIS is why people are upset. and they have every right to be.

Because as far as I know the multiplayer is now acting in the same function as those dlc did.

[MostlyAutumn]

Tazzmission wrote...
seriously read the first fn post

“From Ashes” includes the Prothean squad mate, an adventure on Eden Prime, a new weapon, and an alternate appearance for every squad mate. Note that these alternate appearances are in addition to the ones already advertised in the CE.

pay attention before you speak

Yes, CE/DDE get two sets of alternate apperances, one is CE/DDE-exclusive, another one is from 'From Ashes' DLC. Your point?

Modifié par MostlyAutumn, 23 février 2012 - 07:49 .

[pavi132]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

pavi132 wrote...

Niemack Saarinen wrote...

pavi132 wrote...

What bugs me is that they were thinking about DLC before the game was even finished. To me, DLC shouldn't even be considered until the main game is complete. Otherwise, whether consciously or not, the DLC will have an impact on the development of the main game, even if the two are made by separate teams, and could even dilute the quality of the main game as a result. That is what worries me most about this. While they can tell us that one has no effect on the other, it is hard for me to believe that.

You cant finish the story then go "Oh well lets add something here about.."  they need the fore-thought while creating the base game of how everything is going to inter-connect together, not pasted on crudely at the end. 

The problem with what you're saying is that they are essentially not making a complete game if they project to have things in the game ahead of time but choose to make them DLC instead. They should focus on making a complete game in its entirety first so they don't compromise the creation by withholding certain aspects for DLC and then add DLC later that maybe answers questions fans may still have or include more lore in side missions.

They always come up with ideas to tack on to the main story while making a game. Kasumi's files are present in the main ME2 game, but her DLC wasn't done until after the game released. Jessica Merizan said herself that the DLC team has been busy coming up with ideas while the others were finishing the main game. They're add ons, probably stories they've come up with after the writing of the final drafts is already complete. I don't claim to actually know anything about it, that would just make sense to me. Maybe someone had a great idea, but not in time to include it in the actual game. I doubt anyone sits around, rubbing their hands together maniacally and thinks of ways to screw us out of our money.

People don't seem to understand that DLCs are add ons, they don't make the game "complete." If a 30 hour game with a clearly defined beginning and end isn't complete to you, I don't know what is.

The point is that DLCs are SUPPOSED to be add-ons, but when they are created alongside the game, it is hard to believe that they were created purely as add-ons and not as what was supposed to be and should have been part of the game. 

[TheStoner]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

chuzo wrote...

Let’s summarize what Bioware has done this far:

1. Spoiled the game
2. Milked the hell out of ME 3
3. Lied
4. Pissed lots of their loyal customers

Good job!

How to make things right?

1. Don’t buy / cancel preorder
2. Make sure your friend and friends of your friends etc. do the same
3. Spread the word of Bioware/EA’s unethical behavior (not that it needs any more spreading )

End of ripping of consumers, milking and dissecting of the games

Profit.

1. Microsoft did that, on two occassions now.
2. How?  Through pre-order incentives?  Two of the three guns will be available at some point for everyone.  The DLC included elsewhere is already in the game, just a quicker/garunteed way to procure it.
3. They did not.
4. Hey 1 out of 4!  Good job!

How many times do we have to spell this out. Bioware said the game was devolped after the game was finished. Files from the dlc are in the demo which is based a unfinished build of the game. That is a lie.

[ArkkAngel007]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...
Which I agree with as long as the content was actually cut from the main game in its intended, retail form.

Well the word "intended" is problematic here, because you're basically saying that as long as they "intend" from the jump to hold something back, that's OK.  But if they get 75% of the way through the dev cycle and decide to rip it out, that's no good.

I don't draw that distinction.

To me, the question is simple.  In fact I posed this question to the dev who said he'd read every page, and I said I'd take his response at face value.  I've yet to see a response:

The bit question for me is: in a world where they could only charge $60 for the game (i.e. no for-profit DLC, no preorder bonuses, no frills), would this content still exist?

If the answer is yes, then the DLC is cut content and a ripoff.  If the answer is no, then the DLC is not cut content and it only looks like a ripoff because the timing is so shady.

If I could get an answer to that from someone in a position to know, it would allay a lot of my concerns.

I doubt it.  The stuff in the original script revolving around the Prothean, outside of his reveal, was pretty bad.  The change is a lot better for the game.

I know I'm not on the development team, so I can't ease all your thoughts, but this way was better than the original concept for the most part, even if the involvement of Javik is next to non-existant.

[Omega Torsk]

Calians wrote...

Whoa man watch the language before stanely woo comes in here, you'll get this blocked. <_<

Good riddance, I say... in fact, Bioware couldn't block this thread faster!

[Tazzmission]

Daywalker315 wrote...

hitorihanzo wrote...

Have a question. Why are people still defending BioWare? If people decide that they want to boycott this game because it violates a principle that they have, why do you care? It's not like you won't still be able to buy the game. I'm sure that there will even be a few extra copies of the CE due to this. So, why are you still here trying to change people's minds.

That was like... four questions. Sorry. Lol.

Personally, I'm defending them to balance out all the people acting like they killed their first-born child. I bought the CE based on the promise that I'd get a bonus DLC and character so other people paying $10 for that optional experience doesn't seem so bad. I'm trying to make a few people change their minds about this being the end of the world because I want as many people as possible playing ME3. I love the series and I want others to enjoy it too.

yea i feel you. i bought the ce also mainly for the litho, armors, prothean + mission and ost for that matter

i mean its only 10 bucks and people act like if they demand 30 or 50 or w/e

they feel they are entiled to every little thing free when in fact they ( whiners or us)  dont deserve jack so we should be gratefull

Modifié par Tazzmission, 23 février 2012 - 07:48 .

[rainasa]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...


They always come up with ideas to tack on to the main story while making a game. Kasumi's files are present in the main ME2 game, but her DLC wasn't done until after the game released. Jessica Merizan said herself that the DLC team has been busy coming up with ideas while the others were finishing the main game. They're add ons, probably stories they've come up with after the writing of the final drafts is already complete. I don't claim to actually know anything about it, that would just make sense to me. Maybe someone had a great idea, but not in time to include it in the actual game. I doubt anyone sits around, rubbing their hands together maniacally and thinks of ways to screw us out of our money.

People don't seem to understand that DLCs are add ons, they don't make the game "complete." If a 30 hour game with a clearly defined beginning and end isn't complete to you, I don't know what is.

the reason is is that when the first script was leaked ( and it was a very very old version of the scipt) the prothean played a major role in the story, but when a new version of the script he was removed completly.............................and then people made the mental jump that EA/Bioware removed him for the sole purpose of milking as much money from their fans as they can. yeah.

[AkiKishi]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

That means Bioware could release the DLC free and not face action (legal) from CE buyers.

Heh. Funny, I was told I wouldn't have to pay for this DLC if I bought the CE, and not the SE. I was told if I bought the SE I'd have to pay for this DLC. So you're telling me that if that no longer becomes true, I wasn't lied to? Forget legal action for a minute...think about what you're saying. We're here discussing ethics of DLC, let's talk ethics in general: just because it's legal, does it mean that it's ethical, too?

It's listed as a bonus. The CE already contains enough to make the CE meet it's value. Honestly which part you bought the CE for is not really relevent here. I would guess if none of the other items in the CE are of interest and Bioware put the DLC up for free, you simply cancel your CE and save £20 ? Or is it one of those prepaid things, then it gets a little sticky.

<rock> Bioware <hardplace> 

There is no ideal solution at this point. But if they can be nailed for false advertising it's going to mean having to reprint every box to indicate the missing Prothean.

In fact I think this is a good benchmark for all games in the future that may comtemplate day 1 DLC. I'll be shooting the guy who posted the thread a PM a bit later.

[rumbalumba]

fropas wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

still not hearing the apologists give an explanation as to how this DLC is different from the zaeed and shale dlc that was FREE regardless of version, as long as you bought the game new..

exactly why couldnt they do the same thing with this dlc?

still waiting for a response..

yeah, thats what i thought.

THIS is why people are upset. and they have every right to be.

How can I answer for Bioware? It's free for me. I bought the CE, so they kind of are doing the sasme thing. . .for me.

no it's not, dufus. you paid more so you get it for free? ROFL. is that some kind of a sick joke or something?

[fatalmaverick]

Here are my thoughts on this business practice, in video format: Video:

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par fatalmaverick, 23 février 2012 - 07:52 .

[rumbalumba]

Tazzmission wrote...



yea i feel you. i bought the ce also mainly for the litho, armors, prothean + mission and ost for that matter

i mean its only 10 bucks and people act like if they demand 30 or 50 or w/e

they feel they are entiled to every little thing free when in fact they ( whiners or us)  dont deserve jack so we should be gratefull

what a naive kid.

[DiabolicallyRandom]

I just thought it would be helpful/informative to share a response given by Jessica Merizan, community manager for bioware, over on reddit. She is currently holding an AMAA regarding Mass Effect Series and Bioware (more here: http://www.reddit.co...ty_manager_for/)

I think there's a lot of misinformation out there and I wish the guy who made the initial video about it would have had an open mind before jumping to conclusions based on a leak we weren't ready to address. Since I'm a BioWare employee, I know people won't automatically trust me, but I hope people will consider that it wasn't cut content from the larger game. I was in Edmonton when we were finishing the game in November/December and I was in Edmonton again last month when they were working on the Day 1 DLC. It definitely was only possible to do because the main game was in certification (which means we had to wait for people to test it and make sure everything was good etc before we could get the greenlight to sell it). I also played the game WITHOUT the DLC in my first playthrough and honestly, it's an awesome addition but I was more than happy with what I was given in the game. It's bigger and more expansive than ever. Of course, I understand the concern but I hope we can all have an intelligent conversation about it and cover what the facts are in this situation.Hope that helps a little bit. This is an awkward format to answer this question, but I know I could explain it if you were sitting next to me on a couch with some coffee/tea

Below, I have included my response as posted on reddit as well:

I don't honestly think there is a lack of understanding here about the process - I for one certainly don't subscribe to the theory that this is content "cut" from the original game, in that it was already complete and excised from it.I do however, as a collectors edition purchaser, feel that a character so central to the lore of the series should have been included on day 1 for ALL purchasers, as an incentive to buy NEW rather than used.[1] It is a living, breathing PROTHEAN. I do beleive what you have said about it, and how you dont feel that it significantly detracts from the "experience" - but then I am not all that sure if that comforts me, or makes me even more upset. A living, breathing prothean, which has no impact on the story and gives no insight into the central lore of the series?I understand where you are coming from, but I cannot reconcile this given the circumstances. What was done with Mass Effect 2 made far more sense, both from a consumer/customer standpoint, and as good business sense.I can see that the idea behind adding multiplayer was to make that the new "value add" used to lock out used purchasers - and while I can appreciate that there might be some players that purchase used, and jump on the online pass, I think there are going to be a far higher number of players that simply purchase used anyways, and then pay 10 dollars for the DLC, still coming out ahead of buying new, and still resulting in less sales/money for Bioware. That is certainly what I would be doing if the money was not already gone and the sale already final for my collectors edition (best buy won't allow me to cancel).I appreciate you coming out to answer these questions, and realize there are certain things you cant or won't respond to - and I hope you understand I don't hold any ill will towards yourself, or anyone at Bioware specifically - I just feel this whole Prothean debacle was both poorly planned and poorly thought out from the start.

All in all, im just feeling exceedingly disappointed at this whole thing. It has really made me so much less enthusiastic about ME3 then I was a couple of weeks ago. After the complete heartbreak of DA2, and the seeming disconnect with ME3, I am not sure I will ever be able to bring myself to pay for EA/Bioware products again.

Modifié par DiabolicallyRandom, 23 février 2012 - 07:52 .

[Hardwired]

blindchaos wrote...

I mean no offense by my posts, I appreciate that this is a topic worthy of discussion and don't fault anyone for being upset. My only issue is with the framing of the argument. Everyone only seems to care because they either

A) Forgot that the CE was shipping out with a character, and that that character was going to come out as DLC

Didn't care until it was revealed to be a Prothean and are now trying to frame this argument as one against DLC, when in fact they are more upset about it being a species they think is central to the narative.

If the argument is that a Prothean squad member should never have been offered as a promotional tool for the CE and should have always been in the SE, then I can understand and agree. Though I do think if that's the case this argument needed to have started back in June.

However, if the argument against this DLC is being framed around the broader issue of Day 1 DLC, and the cutting of content form a games release, then the passive acceptance of the CE's features in June hurts that argument.

I hope I am being clear, and I again mean no offense to anyone involved in this forum as I can appreciate how big an issue this is for all involved on both sides.

Your forgot about C) Wasn't aware of this until today.

Modifié par Hardwired, 23 février 2012 - 07:52 .

[ArkkAngel007]

TheStoner wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

chuzo wrote...

Let’s summarize what Bioware has done this far:

1. Spoiled the game
2. Milked the hell out of ME 3
3. Lied
4. Pissed lots of their loyal customers

Good job!

How to make things right?

1. Don’t buy / cancel preorder
2. Make sure your friend and friends of your friends etc. do the same
3. Spread the word of Bioware/EA’s unethical behavior (not that it needs any more spreading )

End of ripping of consumers, milking and dissecting of the games

Profit.

1. Microsoft did that, on two occassions now.
2. How?  Through pre-order incentives?  Two of the three guns will be available at some point for everyone.  The DLC included elsewhere is already in the game, just a quicker/garunteed way to procure it.
3. They did not.
4. Hey 1 out of 4!  Good job!

How many times do we have to spell this out. Bioware said the game was devolped after the game was finished. Files from the dlc are in the demo which is based a unfinished build of the game. That is a lie.

And you are wrong in saying the content was developed after the game was finished.  That was not what was said.  It was when the main game was finished aka the core game which is basically a functioning layout with a lot of placeholders until everything gets touched up and debugged, as well as having most of the core mechanics laid down for testing (which were subject to change, as we saw).

The files were in there because the demo was from past that core completion, and that the VO work was done between then.  Cinematic markers were also needed to designate his appearance as well.

You don't want to believe it?  Fine, but stop passing it off as a fact because you want to believe the company is screwing you over in that way.

Modifié par ArkkAngel007, 23 février 2012 - 07:52 .