13369 réponses à ce sujet

[fropas]

rumbalumba wrote...

fropas wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

still not hearing the apologists give an explanation as to how this DLC is different from the zaeed and shale dlc that was FREE regardless of version, as long as you bought the game new..

exactly why couldnt they do the same thing with this dlc?

still waiting for a response..

yeah, thats what i thought.

THIS is why people are upset. and they have every right to be.

How can I answer for Bioware? It's free for me. I bought the CE, so they kind of are doing the sasme thing. . .for me.

no it's not, dufus. you paid more so you get it for free? ROFL. is that some kind of a sick joke or something?

I do have a sick sense of humor yes. trolololololol

[GuyIncognito21]

blindchaos wrote...
If the argument is that a Prothean squad member should never have been offered as a promotional tool for the CE and should have always been in the SE, then I can understand and agree. Though I do think if that's the case this argument needed to have started back in June.

I do think that's the argument, but I have to say I don't really understand the suggestion that the argument should have started in June.

Admittedly I'm not some crazed fanboy.  In fact I've been trying to keep my exposure to a minimum, but I hadn't the slightest inkling that we were talking about a prothean squad member and a return to Eden Prime until yesterday afternoon.  I wasn't even thinking about this game in June.

And I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that people such as me should have wantonly assumed months ago that their "mystery character" would be so important.  What's the precendent for that kind of marketing gimmick?

To me, the fact that EA/BW wasn't forthcoming about this from the get-go should count against their intentions, not against the people who didn't assume the worst.

Modifié par GuyIncognito21, 23 février 2012 - 07:54 .

[Calians]

fatalmaverick wrote...

Here are my thoughts on this business practice, in video format: Video:

www.youtube.com/watch

My thoughts
www.youtube.com/watch

[AkiKishi]

obie191970 wrote...

Seriously?  Are you that naive?  Nothing that Bioware has done warrants legal action - It doesn't have a leg to stand on.

To prove that an advertisement is false, a plaintiff must prove five things: (1) a false statement of fact has been made about the advertiser's own or another person's goods, services, or commercial activity; (2) the statement either deceives or has the potential to deceive a substantial portion of its targeted audience; (3) the deception is also likely to affect the purchasing decisions of its audience; (4) the advertising involves goods or services in interstate commerce; and (5) the deception has either resulted in or is likely to result in injury to the plaintiff. The most heavily weighed factor is the advertisement's potential to injure a customer. The injury is usually attributed to money the consumer lost through a purchase that would not have been made had the advertisement not been misleading. False statements can be defined in two ways: those that are false on their face and those that are implicitly false.

Read more: http://www.answers.c...g#ixzz1nEgrkxpP

They are selling ME3 in two versions without indicating it on the packaging that it will cost you £10 to get the same game that the CE is, even though those files are on your disk.

Seems boarderline to me I'm going to PM the thread starter

[MisterPayday]

I'm coming in here too late to really matter I'm assuming, but I'll add my 2 cents because although some have said this issue has been blown out of proportion, I do not believe it has been.

Finding a live Prothean should be one of the biggest plot twists of the series, and should play a VITAL role in the third and final act of the series. I can't imagine a situation where you find a live prothean and then having it be a quick side mission with a few added lines of dialogue here and there. I can only see it being something you discover that completely changes the course of the game entirely, which is obviously not what's going to happen since he's just a bonus character. This, as has been said already, is alarming. It makes very little to no sense to have a surviving member of an extinct race that participated directly in the last fight against the reapers become blended in like another Zaeed or Kasumi. That is an insult to the fanbase, and to the Mass Effect story. It's an amazing idea, and I applaud Bioware for for it, but obviously their execution was not thought out thoroughlly or accomplished in a proper way. There is no way to deny, if you're thinking logically about the Mass Effect story, that a living Prothean would be anything but a stark turning point in the story upon discovery and cause significant changes in the development of that story. A Prothean team member will be cool, but a Prothean side character will be disappointing as to what possibilities were abandoned.

[Mclouvins]

pavi132 wrote...

The point is that DLCs are SUPPOSED to be add-ons, but when they are created alongside the game, it is hard to believe that they were created purely as add-ons and not as what was supposed to be and should have been part of the game. 

The timing doesn't matter. From the beginning they said this character is going to be included in the CE and not in the standard edition. I for one initially preorded the standard edition knowing full well that I would either not get said character or would have to pay more for him at a later date, eventually I decided to get the DDE but that's besides the point.

Bioware was never duplicitous in their dealing with this character. From the outset he was made as somethign separate. What they did was say this is the standard edition of ME3 with all that is included therein for 60 dollars or whatever it is where you are. That was the game as intended. From there they decided to let people get more if they decided they wanted to pay more. There's nothing unetical about it. What consumers are entitled to is a product that is what was promised (in this case a game without a Prothean) that functions as intended (meaning patches if necessary).

[chengthao]

i can understand why BW/EA is making us pay for From Ashes . . . . more $$$$$ . . . . simple, cheaper to sell half a game at full price and make "hardcore" fans pay for the other half . . . . good business, bad ethics . . . . of course than again "good business ethics" would be an oxymoron

[MajorJoeKickass]

Are you still allowed to post here? If not im sorry for the confusion.

Anyways at first i were really unsure if you really watched the posts and cared about them, So i were gladly suprised when i saw your comment Mike, I've been unsure of ''ethical'' this is but if a seperate team started this after the game were done, it's perfectly ok with me even if there is a Prothean squadmate, rather have that direcly from the beginning on my first playtrough, only thing i dont like about it is that ill need internet connection to get it and in the hospitals im in they dont provide it, forceing me too wait a couple of weeks with chemo before able to play it as i dont want to start without the dlc, only having two days at most at home before returning to the hospital i wont be able to finish the game in time either, sucks as ive been waiting for the game for such a long time.

[zeke1012]

I have to ask the individuals complaining about Mass Effect 3: From Ashes dlc, do any of you actually know the length of this dlc? Do you know everything it adds to the Mass Effect 3 experience? These complaints would actually be valid if you or a trusted game reviewer brought proof that this dlc is not worth its price. Like most dlc it is your choice to purchase this addition for an already large game.

I am not naive to many companies trying to get as much money from the consumer as possible. However, developers know if they anger their customers they gain a little now, but lose trust for future releases. Mass Effect 3 will end this trilogy, but the Mass Effect Universe like Star Wars, Star Trek, and even Lord of the Ring have numerous options for future entertainment products that an insignificant amount now won't be worth harming a franchise that has so much potential.

Try to reserve judgement of Mass Effect 3: From Ashes dlc for after it is released or when more detailed information becomes available. You may find out it is well worth its price.

Thank You Bioware for the Mass Effect trilogy. I look forward to March 6 and showing the reapers why they made a costly mistake.

[MageCeridan]

Ok... I look at my news feed this afternoon and I get the following news line:
"Mass Effect 3 DLC Triggers Fan Outrage, BioWare Response [Mass Effect]".
Ok, I tell myself WTF and proceed to read the article.

And then I wonder, are all of those fans kids?
THE DLC WAS TAGGED AS AN CE EXCLUSIVE, WAKE UP.
You can buy it for 10$ if you have the SE, and it might be a tad expensive if there's not enought content (but between 1 character (+ all the lines of said character), one or 2 missions (if loyalty missions are still there) and new appearance for your other team mates... this DLC might be worth the 10$.

PS: I find it rather stupid that people rants about first day DLC, since the RTM process is rather long usually, what do you expect the dev team to do? Play videogames during that time? There wont be any huge bug fixes at that time(unless QA finds a game breaking bug) so making them work on DLC is better. Besides, DLC takes shorter to be released, even on the stupid Vetting process that is XBLMarketplace/PSNStore.

[Lufven1]

This thread:

1. A lot of people are upset about Bioware's exploitative corporate policy

2. A few people furiously trying to defend it

[CDRSkyShepard]

hitorihanzo wrote...

Have a question. Why are people still defending BioWare? If people decide that they want to boycott this game because it violates a principle that they have, why do you care? It's not like you won't still be able to buy the game. I'm sure that there will even be a few extra copies of the CE due to this. So, why are you still here trying to change people's minds.

That was like... four questions. Sorry. Lol.

I'll answer your questions. 

1) We all have our reasons for defending BioWare. Myself? Well, I guess my reason has to do with question 2 as well, so I'll refrain from answering it for now. I will say, though, that I don't blindly defend everything BioWare does. I weight each issue on a case-by-case basis.

2) Why do I care? Good question. I guess I'm a bit of a sap at heart, and if I see someone (yes, even a company) being berated for a reason I feel is unjustified, I will defend them. I feel like BioWare is getting slapped in the face by the fanbase right now unfairly. Why do I think that? Well, because this DLC (no, we didn't know what exactly it was at the time, but the awareness of some cool CE DLC has been known for some time) was annouced to be part of the CE some 7 months ago. People were perfectly aware they'd miss out on it being included with their game if they didn't get the CE. Thus, when this news came out and people started this outcry, it made me scratch my head and go "WTF?" So yeah, I feel like I should say, "Hey, guys...why are we making a big deal about this now?" Maybe it's folly, but there are worse traits for a human being to have.

3) Yes, I can still get my game. It's already paid off and everything. I post here not to change anyone's minds, because goodness knows that's never going to happen on the BSN. I post here because I feel like something needs to be said, that people should have to think about what they're saying and not just say, "Well I agree with TB" or "Well I agree with BioWare." We need to look objectively and realize that we've known about this DLC for a while now - no, we didn't necessarily know it was Prothy, but we knew that if you got the SE, you'd have to pay for it if you wanted it. That's the cut and dry of it.

Hope I could shed some light for you.

[Frailstrength]

Tazzmission wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

hitorihanzo wrote...

Have a question. Why are people still defending BioWare? If people decide that they want to boycott this game because it violates a principle that they have, why do you care? It's not like you won't still be able to buy the game. I'm sure that there will even be a few extra copies of the CE due to this. So, why are you still here trying to change people's minds.

That was like... four questions. Sorry. Lol.

Personally, I'm defending them to balance out all the people acting like they killed their first-born child. I bought the CE based on the promise that I'd get a bonus DLC and character so other people paying $10 for that optional experience doesn't seem so bad. I'm trying to make a few people change their minds about this being the end of the world because I want as many people as possible playing ME3. I love the series and I want others to enjoy it too.

yea i feel you. i bought the ce also mainly for the litho, armors, prothean + mission and ost for that matter

i mean its only 10 bucks and people act like if they demand 30 or 50 or w/e

they feel they are entiled to every little thing free when in fact they ( whiners or us)  dont deserve jack so we should be gratefull

I appreciate that sentiment. This is what happens when we build an entitlement society and tell people they have rights outside of being alive and choosing their own path. The anger about the DLC decision is one of pure emotion and not really settled in an intellectually honest foundation. Bioware doesn't really owe its fans anything. They, however, have treated us very well over the years, and have produced some of the best experiences the medium has to offer. This attitude toward them seems to discard all that stuff Bioware did before and forget what they've done, as though their only value is what they've done lately. The bottom line is that if you can't justify the expense for the extra DLC then don't spend the money. The West has spent so much time convincing people they have the right to have whatever they set their eyes on, that this line of thought seems beyond many.

[NoxJuked]

So much negative ****, **** reading all of this I'm gonna go play mass effect prepare for ME3

[AkiKishi]

zeke1012 wrote...

I have to ask the individuals complaining about Mass Effect 3: From Ashes dlc, do any of you actually know the length of this dlc? Do you know everything it adds to the Mass Effect 3 experience? These complaints would actually be valid if you or a trusted game reviewer brought proof that this dlc is not worth its price. Like most dlc it is your choice to purchase this addition for an already large game.

I am not naive to many companies trying to get as much money from the consumer as possible. However, developers know if they anger their customers they gain a little now, but lose trust for future releases. Mass Effect 3 will end this trilogy, but the Mass Effect Universe like Star Wars, Star Trek, and even Lord of the Ring have numerous options for future entertainment products that an insignificant amount now won't be worth harming a franchise that has so much potential.

Try to reserve judgement of Mass Effect 3: From Ashes dlc for after it is released or when more detailed information becomes available. You may find out it is well worth its price.

Thank You Bioware for the Mass Effect trilogy. I look forward to March 6 and showing the reapers why they made a costly mistake.

That's not really the point. The point is that there are files on the SE disk that require £10 to complete.

[chengthao]

zeke1012 wrote...

I have to ask the individuals complaining about Mass Effect 3: From Ashes dlc, do any of you actually know the length of this dlc? Do you know everything it adds to the Mass Effect 3 experience? These complaints would actually be valid if you or a trusted game reviewer brought proof that this dlc is not worth its price. Like most dlc it is your choice to purchase this addition for an already large game.

I am not naive to many companies trying to get as much money from the consumer as possible. However, developers know if they anger their customers they gain a little now, but lose trust for future releases. Mass Effect 3 will end this trilogy, but the Mass Effect Universe like Star Wars, Star Trek, and even Lord of the Ring have numerous options for future entertainment products that an insignificant amount now won't be worth harming a franchise that has so much potential.

Try to reserve judgement of Mass Effect 3: From Ashes dlc for after it is released or when more detailed information becomes available. You may find out it is well worth its price.

Thank You Bioware for the Mass Effect trilogy. I look forward to March 6 and showing the reapers why they made a costly mistake.

i don't think they care . . . just look at COD games . . . its essentially the same game over and over and over again and ppl kno it and are "against" it and it still sells really, really, REALLY well

[fatalmaverick]

MageCeridan wrote...

Ok... I look at my news feed this afternoon and I get the following news line:
"Mass Effect 3 DLC Triggers Fan Outrage, BioWare Response [Mass Effect]".
Ok, I tell myself WTF and proceed to read the article.

And then I wonder, are all of those fans kids?
THE DLC WAS TAGGED AS AN CE EXCLUSIVE, WAKE UP.
You can buy it for 10$ if you have the SE, and it might be a tad expensive if there's not enought content (but between 1 character (+ all the lines of said character), one or 2 missions (if loyalty missions are still there) and new appearance for your other team mates... this DLC might be worth the 10$.

PS: I find it rather stupid that people rants about first day DLC, since the RTM process is rather long usually, what do you expect the dev team to do? Play videogames during that time? There wont be any huge bug fixes at that time(unless QA finds a game breaking bug) so making them work on DLC is better. Besides, DLC takes shorter to be released, even on the stupid Vetting process that is XBLMarketplace/PSNStore.

Please watch my video it addresses all your points.

www.youtube.com/watch

[fropas]

Lufven1 wrote...

This thread:

1. A lot of people are upset about Bioware's exploitative corporate policy

2. A few people furiously trying to defend it

I'm not furious. I'm actually find this thread quite amusing.

[Calians]

Lufven1 wrote...

This thread:

1. A lot of people are upset about Bioware's exploitative corporate policy

2. A few people furiously trying to defend it

Case in point. another DA:2 debacle!! AHH who would have known!

[Daywalker315]

rumbalumba wrote...

fropas wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

still not hearing the apologists give an explanation as to how this DLC is different from the zaeed and shale dlc that was FREE regardless of version, as long as you bought the game new..

exactly why couldnt they do the same thing with this dlc?

still waiting for a response..

yeah, thats what i thought.

THIS is why people are upset. and they have every right to be.

How can I answer for Bioware? It's free for me. I bought the CE, so they kind of are doing the sasme thing. . .for me.

no it's not, dufus. you paid more so you get it for free? ROFL. is that some kind of a sick joke or something?

It depends on his reasoning for buying the CE. He may have pre-ordered the CE a long time ago and didn't even know it had a bonus DLC. The value of the DLC may be the in-game items or the art book or the lithograph. He may perceive it as being free because the "worth" of the CE is established via the other items. Everyone has a different way of thinking and reasoning for buying the CE. Me, personally, I love the hoodie and robo-dog, N7 weapons, and the DLC character. The physical items hold little value to me.

[Yuoaman]

I just wanted to mention that I love Bioware as a developer and I'm sure that I'm going to love the crap out of ME3. I just can't support them in this situation - I have my convictions.

[pavi132]

DiabolicallyRandom wrote...

I just thought it would be helpful/informative to share a response given by Jessica Merizan, community manager for bioware, over on reddit. She is currently holding an AMAA regarding Mass Effect Series and Bioware (more here: http://www.reddit.co...ty_manager_for/)

I think there's a lot of misinformation out there and I wish the guy who made the initial video about it would have had an open mind before jumping to conclusions based on a leak we weren't ready to address. Since I'm a BioWare employee, I know people won't automatically trust me, but I hope people will consider that it wasn't cut content from the larger game. I was in Edmonton when we were finishing the game in November/December and I was in Edmonton again last month when they were working on the Day 1 DLC. It definitely was only possible to do because the main game was in certification (which means we had to wait for people to test it and make sure everything was good etc before we could get the greenlight to sell it). I also played the game WITHOUT the DLC in my first playthrough and honestly, it's an awesome addition but I was more than happy with what I was given in the game. It's bigger and more expansive than ever. Of course, I understand the concern but I hope we can all have an intelligent conversation about it and cover what the facts are in this situation.Hope that helps a little bit. This is an awkward format to answer this question, but I know I could explain it if you were sitting next to me on a couch with some coffee/tea

Below, I have included my response as posted on reddit as well:

I don't honestly think there is a lack of understanding here about the process - I for one certainly don't subscribe to the theory that this is content "cut" from the original game, in that it was already complete and excised from it.I do however, as a collectors edition purchaser, feel that a character so central to the lore of the series should have been included on day 1 for ALL purchasers, as an incentive to buy NEW rather than used.[1] It is a living, breathing PROTHEAN. I do beleive what you have said about it, and how you dont feel that it significantly detracts from the "experience" - but then I am not all that sure if that comforts me, or makes me even more upset. A living, breathing prothean, which has no impact on the story and gives no insight into the central lore of the series?I understand where you are coming from, but I cannot reconcile this given the circumstances. What was done with Mass Effect 2 made far more sense, both from a consumer/customer standpoint, and as good business sense.I can see that the idea behind adding multiplayer was to make that the new "value add" used to lock out used purchasers - and while I can appreciate that there might be some players that purchase used, and jump on the online pass, I think there are going to be a far higher number of players that simply purchase used anyways, and then pay 10 dollars for the DLC, still coming out ahead of buying new, and still resulting in less sales/money for Bioware. That is certainly what I would be doing if the money was not already gone and the sale already final for my collectors edition (best buy won't allow me to cancel).I appreciate you coming out to answer these questions, and realize there are certain things you cant or won't respond to - and I hope you understand I don't hold any ill will towards yourself, or anyone at Bioware specifically - I just feel this whole Prothean debacle was both poorly planned and poorly thought out from the start.

All in all, im just feeling exceedingly disappointed at this whole thing. It has really made me so much less enthusiastic about ME3 then I was a couple of weeks ago. After the complete heartbreak of DA2, and the seeming disconnect with ME3, I am not sure I will ever be able to bring myself to pay for EA/Bioware products again.

That was a surprisingly great post by yourself. I think it sums up what a lot of people are feeling, not me so much actually, but definitely the thoughts of a lot of others.

[MageCeridan]

BobSmith101 wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

Seriously?  Are you that naive?  Nothing that Bioware has done warrants legal action - It doesn't have a leg to stand on.

To prove that an advertisement is false, a plaintiff must prove five things: (1) a false statement of fact has been made about the advertiser's own or another person's goods, services, or commercial activity; (2) the statement either deceives or has the potential to deceive a substantial portion of its targeted audience; (3) the deception is also likely to affect the purchasing decisions of its audience; (4) the advertising involves goods or services in interstate commerce; and (5) the deception has either resulted in or is likely to result in injury to the plaintiff. The most heavily weighed factor is the advertisement's potential to injure a customer. The injury is usually attributed to money the consumer lost through a purchase that would not have been made had the advertisement not been misleading. False statements can be defined in two ways: those that are false on their face and those that are implicitly false.

Read more: http://www.answers.c...g#ixzz1nEgrkxpP

They are selling ME3 in two versions without indicating it on the packaging that it will cost you £10 to get the same game that the CE is, even though those files are on your disk.

Seems boarderline to me I'm going to PM the thread starter

Well it's written on the CE version what's 
bonus to that version.
They don't need say the cost of the CE bonus if they are sold alone at a later date.

(PS: they would need to disclose also the cost of the music disk, the dlc, the weapons, the art book, and whatever other thrinkets they are providing in that CE version... yet I did not need THAT to tell me that the Digital Deluxe edition was a better deal then the SE version with then me buying everything else piece by piece).
EDIT: Correcly mentionned that the DLC was a CE Bonus, not a CE exclusive.

Modifié par MageCeridan, 23 février 2012 - 08:19 .

[AkiKishi]

The implications go beyond ME3.

I think that if you have day 1 DLC it needs to be put on the packaging.

Like this.

Prothean £10 extra

Then the consumer can make an informed choice whether they feel they are paying for an incomplete game or not.

[ArkkAngel007]

Lufven1 wrote...

This thread:

1. A lot of people are upset about Bioware's exploitative corporate policy

2. A few people furiously trying to defend it

3. Very few people that have valid arguments on both sides of the argument.

4. People whose vocabularly doesn't go beyond "bio drone", "hater", or [insert meme here].