13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Lufven1]

rainasa wrote...

Lufven1 wrote...


We still don't know of the significance of this new character but him being a prothean is surely something else than Zaeed. You MUST understand that. I would argue that a new character IS going to change the experience of the players using it but as it now stands only people willing to pay another 20$ or whatever will experience it. I truly love the ME series and have been looking forward to ME3 it since ME2 but am I a lesser fan because I don't want to pay extra to recieve a greater experience?

it has nothing to do with how big of a fan you are. the prothean squadmate will provide a unique perspective  and new lore, but it will not change the main game in any large manner. you simply FEEL that it is manditory  for your experience, that is an opinion and you have every right to it but at the same time as a DLC it is extra content and bioware is not required to give it you for free simply becaue you dont want to pay for somthing you feel you deserve.

I agree with you on that you should have to pay for DLC if you want to but the fact that this is a day-one DLC makes me wonder. DLC is just a word so look at it more like "content in the game". All the content for a game that is present at launch and affect the game is some way (not cosmetic stuff), storywise or gameplay, should be available for ALL the customers. It's not too much to ask for isn't it? And don't come and say "this was developed after the game was finished". ANY developer can say that at ANY time. Is it true? We don't know.

And a lot of characters are not needed to make a game feel complete. Let's say you removed Samara in ME2. What would happen to the story? Nothing other than you wouldn't experience her story-arc. There are similarities with prothy. Having him there will not change anything but it sure as heck will enhance the experience.

[_symphony]

fropas wrote...This is an unconstructive criticism. It's too late for BW to change his importance to the main plot.

fropas wrote...
So you think they can make the game better by changing the plot (before you've even played it) and making a character (you've never played with) more important because you think he should have more impact on the plot?

fropas: This is madness!

symphony: This is BSN!

so... you're impliying that criticism before the game launch is invalid because the critic didn't got to play the game, and that criticism after the game goes gold is also invalid because is too late to change anything. Which one it is?

also, don't put words in my mouth that I didn't say.

[nightcobra]

Draconis6666 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

fropas wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...


CE - complete game
SE - complete game if you pay £10 more.

So then you would be ok with it if the base game cost $70 and everyone got it for free?

I never thought of this before, funny how this solves everyones problems but no one likes it

Make it happen BW!

I'm fine with it. Whether Bioware could pull it off though who knows.This is why they prefer to sneak things like day 1 DLC under the radar.

Wouldnt be hard at all, Activsion already wants to charge you $70 for games, all EA has to do is decide they agree and do the same and the bluk of the market is suddenly charging you $70 for all their games. They wont be significantly impacted because the rest of the market is a tiny portion of their share together.

we're already paying 70 euros in my country, or 69,99 as they like to call it.
80 euros for a standard edition is a definite no-no on this one.

[Errationatus]

TheStoner wrote...

You really think thats the actual definition of insanity don't you?
 

 

Uh... no..., but it's close.  I do hope you're being deliberately obtuse.

 
Also neurons travel about as fast as the brian that contains them.

 

Uh... no...  neurons carry electrical charges (thoughts) and those charges move approximately 200 mph.  Considering the distance they have to travel that's virtually instantaneous.  I have no idea how fast they move in Brian's brain. Unless you're Brian, then I can make an educated guess....

 
Maybe you were thinking of electrons or neutrinos?

No... my neurons are firing up to speed, thanks.

[lrrose]

So is Bioware going into your homes and forcing you to buy this DLC?

Also, is anyone else creeped out that people are willing to boycott this game because some conspiracy theorist on the internet told them too.

[TheStoner]

Raanz wrote...

I am so lost in this thread....there is no singular point to be made apparently.

Bottom line is if you pre-ordered the game and you are still getting what you paid for, then there is no issue. UNLESS you are wanting more without paying for it.

One guy is stuck on an idea that there is stuff on the disc that he can't access. That argument would not hold up in court. If you have ever read and I mean read an EULA, you know that you are not buying anything...you are licensing it. You are not entitled to all elements of the code that resides on a disc.

Egh people need to stop confusing this with politics. This is consumers showing that they don't like certian business decisions. We arn't suing bioware so the legality is irrelevent.

[RiouHotaru]

Aspiriini wrote...

I was about to write a well-mannered reply, but then i realized there had been a dozen of them already that have gotten us nowhere.

Biodrones.

Yeah, nice try.  Plenty of us "Biodrones" have made legit arguments.  The problem with this discussion boils down to two subjective factors, which differ based on who you ask:

- From Ashes being "Day-1 DLC"
It's development process was laid bare for us by Mike and Casey, and we know that they purposefully pushed to have this DLC done so it could be distributed on launch date.  Meaning they weren't under any obligation to do so with the exception of the CE owners for whom the DLC was promised.  This argument boils down to the whole "Day-1 DLC is an unethical business practice!" argument, in which both sides have equal footing.

- The DLC character being a Prothean
The mere fact he's a Prothean has people demanding that he be assigned a greater relevance, this despite the fact he's CLEARLY geared towards people familiar with the series already from the start.  Although the Prothean's haven't been relevant nor integral to the story since a minor cameo in ME2 (by virtue of the Collectors being called Protheans).  It's clear some folks want him to be more relevant as an excuse to claim that he shouldn't be DLC, while other just believe that by virtue of his species he should be vital, regardless of the fact the leak claims otherwise.

These are pretty much the fundemental arguments, and the problem is they're subjective ones.  It's strictly people's opinions being thrown around now, and there's idiots on both sides.

[AkiKishi]

CommanderCoffee wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Descedent wrote...



has everyone seen this? pretty soon this will be close in views till how many day1 me3 sales across all 3 platforms.

shame couldn't be more

Sales that low on day 1 would be pretty horrible

Because making sales low would solve the problem. EA would cut Bioware, no more Bioware games because they can't get dev money. Nice job, you killed one of the story-centric companies out there. I suggest you go after Obsidian next, I hear they actually give a crap what the game is about.

Bioware bring this stuff on themselves.  They have just reaped the whirlwind of a gaming public that is fed up of DLC being used to raise the price of games under the radar.

The smile was not to indicate I thought it was good/funny rather that the person who posted thought that 500.000 was a good first day.

I'm kind of fond of Obsidian despite the bugs. I was rather fond of Bioware before DA2 but it seems they keep making gaff after gaff.

[neo_nille]

For this, i´m gonna deploy my evil master plan:

I´m gonna buy it used!!!!!!!!!!!!

MOAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[rainasa]

Shinji Ex wrote...

That's the worst excuse I've ever heard.

There is no reason why players should not get "From Ashes" "FREE"
as long they buy Mass Effect 3 new and redeem the online pass
in all copies of the game.

other than the fact that multiplayer takes that role for this game? i understand if you disagree with it but it is far too late to change anything now, hell, i dont think 11 days is enough time for them to make more copies of the codes let alone put it into the millions of game cases that im willing to bet have already shipped.

[Lufven1]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Lufven1 wrote...

We still don't know of the significance of this new character but him being a prothean is surely something else than Zaeed. You MUST understand that. I would argue that a new character IS going to change the experience of the players using it but as it now stands only people willing to pay another 20$ or whatever will experience it. I truly love the ME series and have been looking forward to ME3 it since ME2 but am I a lesser fan because I don't want to pay extra to recieve a greater experience?

Why must he be significant?  Because he's a Prothean?  The very fact that he's DLC excludes him from being critical to the development of the plot, as Bioware's DLC characters have NEVER been that important to the plot.  It's almost amusing that people are demanding he be significant simply because he's a Prothean, despite the fact he may have little if anything to do with the actions of his race.

And again, you're not going to miss anything because you do or don't have him.  He does enrich the lore, yes.  But does he tell you anything plot-relevant you couldn't have learned otherwise?  No.

Imagine removing Thane for ME2. What would change? Nothing. Would it have made ME2 a lesser experience? Hell yeah.

[fropas]

_symphony wrote...

fropas wrote...This is an unconstructive criticism. It's too late for BW to change his importance to the main plot.

fropas wrote...
So you think they can make the game better by changing the plot (before you've even played it) and making a character (you've never played with) more important because you think he should have more impact on the plot?

fropas: This is madness!

symphony: This is BSN!

so... you're impliying that criticism before the game launch is invalid because the critic didn't got to play the game, and that criticism after the game goes gold is also invalid because is too late to change anything. Which one it is?

also, don't put words in my mouth that I didn't say.

Hey you just did the same thing I did. . .Wow I feel like an A-hole. Yes your "constructive crticism" is invalid, because you think a character (you haven't used) should be more important than he actually is. That's your opinion of a plot you haven't experienced yet.

Yes I think you criticism is wholly unconstructive and unreasonable.   

Modifié par fropas, 23 février 2012 - 09:24 .

[AkiKishi]

[quote]nightcobra8928 wrote...

Wouldnt be hard at all, Activsion already wants to charge you $70 for games, all EA has to do is decide they agree and do the same and the bluk of the market is suddenly charging you $70 for all their games. They wont be significantly impacted because the rest of the market is a tiny portion of their share together.

[/quote]

we're already paying 70 euros in my country, or 69,99 as they like to call it.
80 euros for a standard edition is a definite no-no on this one.

[/quote]

It's whether or not the market would take it.  Likely it would just make the used games market even larger.

The publisher do lose a crap load of money via the used games market which is why I don't mind online passes. As long as they don't involve an additional cost.

Charging for day 1 DLC is just backdoor price increases for something that you should have paid for.

[Kithrus]

rainasa wrote...

Shinji Ex wrote...

That's the worst excuse I've ever heard.

There is no reason why players should not get "From Ashes" "FREE"
as long they buy Mass Effect 3 new and redeem the online pass
in all copies of the game.

other than the fact that multiplayer takes that role for this game? i understand if you disagree with it but it is far too late to change anything now, hell, i dont think 11 days is enough time for them to make more copies of the codes let alone put it into the millions of game cases that im willing to bet have already shipped.

Then make it free.....

[Kevin Lozandier]

blueruin wrote...

rumbalumba wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...



From Ashes = one download with everything together. Therefore, CE will get everything in From Ashes, not just the character. That help?

you are either blind or illiterate.

From Ashes has skins/characters that are NOT in the CE. that's why it says "in addition" to the ones advertised in the CE. the only thing that was verified to be BOTH in the DLC and CE is the squadmate + mission. the weapon, they did not elaborate, but the skins/appearances clearly says "in addition" to the ones in the CE. meaning, if you get the CE, and you get the From Ashes, you have TWO sets of skins.

good gawd i didnt know reading comprehension escapes some people.

If this is true, it's incredibly irritating.  This DLC and extra content thing is out of control.  Despite my apprehension about a number of things relating to the game, I pre-ordered the CE -- under the assumption that if I'm going to pay 80 something dollars, I'm going to get all the in-game extras.  Now there's other stuff at release that -isn't- included?  I don't care if it's only appearance skins and inconsequential to gameplay.  It's the principle of it.

I'm a fan.  I'd like to have all of the in-game content including the skins and alternate appearances.  I even paid the extra money for the ME2 alternate appearance packs on a whim because I loved the game, but I'm not gonna do that again.  Is it just me?  Does anyone else find that keeping up with all this extra marketing content is exhausting?  

Why can't you, Bioware, just release ALL the content you have for the game at that time, for a set price?  And then develop meaningful expansions and DLCs you can charge 20, 30, 40 dollars for down the line?  As a company, don't you want to change you DLC model so that consumers don't ever feel like they're being ripped off?

This logic is flawed I think. So people are saying if Bioware knew that they wanted to do a Prothean teammate to live out long-time fan's fantasies, to have put it in the shelf for months and despite knowing they wanted to do it but wait months to release it after launch? Wouldn't that be just as bad? 

[The Enforcer OS]

This DLC issue is not BioWare specific. I do think more people will still buy the game than as many that are complaining about it, but if people are sick of the DLC shenanigans I do hope everyone votes with their wallet.

This is likely to be my last Bioware game and one of my last new games to purchase in general. Because I'm tired of it across the industry not just Bioware / EA. Developers aren't going to change until their revenue really takes a hit by people backing up what they complain about.

[Draconis6666]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

we're already paying 70 euros in my country, or 69,99 as they like to call it.
80 euros for a standard edition is a definite no-no on this one.

Yet you may end up paying that anyway if companies cant make money wiht DLC. If they think they cant make money with DLC anymore they will raise the price of games. if EA and Activision decided to raise the price of their games $10 across the board it wouldnt leave you with a whole lot of options. You'd either be forced to pay the new prices or lose access to the majority of the market of new games that are released. 

[Atakuma]

rainasa wrote...

Shinji Ex wrote...

That's the worst excuse I've ever heard.

There is no reason why players should not get "From Ashes" "FREE"
as long they buy Mass Effect 3 new and redeem the online pass
in all copies of the game.

other than the fact that multiplayer takes that role for this game? i understand if you disagree with it but it is far too late to change anything now, hell, i dont think 11 days is enough time for them to make more copies of the codes let alone put it into the millions of game cases that im willing to bet have already shipped.

All they would have to do is make it free to download, there's no need for extra codes.

[RiouHotaru]

Lufven1 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Lufven1 wrote...

We still don't know of the significance of this new character but him being a prothean is surely something else than Zaeed. You MUST understand that. I would argue that a new character IS going to change the experience of the players using it but as it now stands only people willing to pay another 20$ or whatever will experience it. I truly love the ME series and have been looking forward to ME3 it since ME2 but am I a lesser fan because I don't want to pay extra to recieve a greater experience?

Why must he be significant?  Because he's a Prothean?  The very fact that he's DLC excludes him from being critical to the development of the plot, as Bioware's DLC characters have NEVER been that important to the plot.  It's almost amusing that people are demanding he be significant simply because he's a Prothean, despite the fact he may have little if anything to do with the actions of his race.

And again, you're not going to miss anything because you do or don't have him.  He does enrich the lore, yes.  But does he tell you anything plot-relevant you couldn't have learned otherwise?  No.

Imagine removing Thane for ME2. What would change? Nothing. Would it have made ME2 a lesser experience? Hell yeah.

Huge difference here.  Thane is an important element to ME2's plot because he's required to be picked up by the player.  You -can't- skip him, even if you wanted to.  Ironically the only character you CAN skip that isn't DLC is Grunt, simply by not letting him out of the tank.  The difference is that Thane is mandatory.  The Prothean is not.

People constantly try to compare the Prothean to integral, plot-critical characters when the analogy does NOT fit.

[AlanC9]

MageCeridan wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...
They are free to leave incomplete files as long as they indicate it ON THE PACKAGING.

If the Game Box says Prothean DLC £10 extra that's fine. What is not fine is sneaking in extra costs just because they removed something that should have been there.

So, they must put on the packaging EVERY LINE OF CODE THAT WAS DUMIED OUT???????

how stupid that requirement can be.....

Heh --- I guess ME1's diclosures would have to include things like the gay male romance tracks.

Both KotOR games had whole planets cut. I guess both Obsidian and Bioware cheated Bob.

[AkiKishi]

neo_nille wrote...

For this, i´m gonna deploy my evil master plan:

I´m gonna buy it used!!!!!!!!!!!!

MOAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I always made it a point of principle to buy new but I may well do the same thing. Or just rent more stuff, 90% of it gets played finished and shelved anyway.

[Raanz]

TheStoner wrote...

Raanz wrote...

I am so lost in this thread....there is no singular point to be made apparently.

Bottom line is if you pre-ordered the game and you are still getting what you paid for, then there is no issue. UNLESS you are wanting more without paying for it.

One guy is stuck on an idea that there is stuff on the disc that he can't access. That argument would not hold up in court. If you have ever read and I mean read an EULA, you know that you are not buying anything...you are licensing it. You are not entitled to all elements of the code that resides on a disc.

Egh people need to stop confusing this with politics. This is consumers showing that they don't like certian business decisions. We arn't suing bioware so the legality is irrelevent.

Get over it...what politics?
You mean legality, like the law.  It has nothing to do with politics.  The law is relevant because some of you feel entitled to something that you are simply not.  Just trying to point out the obvious.

I am confused on why people feel cheated.  On March 6th, are you receiving a game that was offered to you to pre-order and you did under those pretenses or are you ****ing because you want something that will be available for free?
BSN has some of the worst farking whiners I have ever experienced (other then my kids).

[Bluumberry]

Kithrus wrote...

Then make it free.....

Heaven forbid people who work to actually get paid for their labor!

[AkiKishi]

Draconis6666 wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

we're already paying 70 euros in my country, or 69,99 as they like to call it.
80 euros for a standard edition is a definite no-no on this one.

Yet you may end up paying that anyway if companies cant make money wiht DLC. If they think they cant make money with DLC anymore they will raise the price of games. if EA and Activision decided to raise the price of their games $10 across the board it wouldnt leave you with a whole lot of options. You'd either be forced to pay the new prices or lose access to the majority of the market of new games that are released. 

Or just rent/buy used.

[Draconis6666]

BobSmith101 wrote...

It's whether or not the market would take it.  Likely it would just make the used games market even larger.

The publisher do lose a crap load of money via the used games market which is why I don't mind online passes. As long as they don't involve an additional cost.

Charging for day 1 DLC is just backdoor price increases for something that you should have paid for.

Even if you agree with that completely word for word which I dont, I agree with the concept but thats the beauty of DLC. They are giving you the option to pay less for the game and not have access to something that you might not even want instead of forcing you to take the thing you might or might not want and pay $10 or have access to nothing including the main game.

People screaming against DLC have valid points when they talk about that it could be dangerious if companies start selling you critical parts of the game for extra. But at the same time they are in a way screaming "I don't want options as a consumer. Force me to spend more money on the whole product or nothing at all"