13369 réponses à ce sujet

[The Enforcer OS]

Chozo_Hybrid wrote...

Bluumberry wrote...

The Enforcer OS wrote...

I don't agree with the entitlement mentality that wants this DLC for free, but I do disagree with developer methodology.  I understand it costs more money.  Allow me to pay more for a Hard copy and I'm good.  
The challenge is that DLC is unregulated and too easy for developers to exploit.  20 years ago games didn't have patches, DLC, etc.  Games had to be finished out the door.  DLC has allowed too much leniency and opportunity to exploit consumers.   It's not all their fault, part of if is the consumer for allowing it to continue to happen.  Also the Console / Publishers are a bit at fault too because a flat $60 price point is not sustainable across all gases.  ME3 may be worth $80, charge me $80 and give me all the content (preferrably in hard copy)  which is why the CE exists I suppose.

Exploit consumers? What, by not cutting content completely and developing extras?

This is all voluntary stuff as well. NO ONE is forcing anyone to buy the extras when the core game is just fine on its own.

Gotta go with this guy in the end. No one makes you buy it. Plus, gaming is a luxury, not a neccessity of life. You can live without the dlc if it pisses you off that much.

I never said anything about being forced to buy DLC, believe me I support the expansion of games to renew content.  My issue is with a lot of stuff being gimmicky pertaining to DLC practices.   DLC A for facebook, DLC B, for buying this, DLC C for doing this.  Sure it's all optional, but it's getting to be ALOT of work to 'collect' All content for a game, when games used to be purchasable whole.   All of the content available from the start is not available at the time of purchase because its segmented.    I would like to spend more money to have the 'whole' game available Day 1... but in reality thats not possibly without buying a keyboard, figure, DLC, etc.   Sure, it's optional, but they're sure still trying to hook people.  That's the point I was trying to get at.  

[Nohvarr]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Additional is not the same as exclusive . Everything that is exclusve is pre-fixed with the word. In other words they were planning this when they printed the box there.

Unlike in ME 1 where they promised a lot of DLC and failed to deliver. Now they're planning ahead and making sure people have optional DLC.

Noted.

[Daithin]

The Enforcer OS wrote...

Daithin wrote...

Michael Gamble wrote...

I've read all 96 pages of this thread. Contrary to popular thoughts, we really do care what you guys have to say.

Casey and I have explained how the development timeline on these DLC go, and in order to have our DLC flow with the main game, we do have to integrate the VO into certain places in the core product (Certain ME2 DLCs followed this same pattern). But there's a lot of work to crafting a great DLC, outside of the VO and script.

That said, i can tell you is that a team of of us poured our heart into this DLC after we had given all we could to finish the the ME3 game. We pushed hard because we wanted people to be able to experience this adventure on the first day, rather than day 30 or 60. We're proud of it, and if you choose to play it, I think you'll see that.

I really do appreciate every person who wants to give ME3 a chance (even if you're not happy with me right now!), and even without 'From Ashes' - I think you will be blown away.

Thanks for your support, and thanks for your feedback.

Mike

Quoted becouse I think it needs to be read again.

You guys really believe so poorly in the Dev's don't you? They explain this stuff over and over again and yet people still don't comprehend. Gaming is not a Free enterprise. Development time costs time and money. Even if you think the Company is being Greedy I can almost a sure you they aren't. They are gamers just like us.

Given the Choice or the ability I bet they would buy the game, and its DLC's (If the wanted to buy them) just like the rest of us as well.

I just don't understand why people cant come to grips with the fact, people need to be paid in order for these games to be played by us.

I don't agree with the entitlement mentality that wants this DLC for free, but I do disagree with developer methodology.  I understand it costs more money.  Allow me to pay more for a Hard copy and I'm good.  
The challenge is that DLC is unregulated and too easy for developers to exploit.  20 years ago games didn't have patches, DLC, etc.  Games had to be finished out the door.  DLC has allowed too much leniency and opportunity to exploit consumers.   It's not all their fault, part of if is the consumer for allowing it to continue to happen.  Also the Console / Publishers are a bit at fault too because a flat $60 price point is not sustainable across all gases.  ME3 may be worth $80, charge me $80 and give me all the content (preferrably in hard copy)  which is why the CE exists I suppose.

I get what your saying, but Ten years ago, the Internet still wasnt advanced as it is now. The very idea of downloading something more then 100megs was near unheard of. Infact I remember broad band and such were in there infancy.

In order to put out a game the company had to be able to commit time, and money in not only the games production, but marketing and getting the product on physical shelves.

Times have changed. Vast amounts of data can be transferred easily now. It makes things like Patch's and even buying entire games and DLing them possible. Am I saying its not a slippery slope? No.

But what a company is asking is much smaller now then forcing us to wait a year or more for Expansions for a Game. I'll gladly pay money to a company I trust for something I want to play.

However to damned free things just because you compare 10 years ago with Today, is laughable at best. The world has changed. Places like Gamestop, and pirates have taken a huge chunk of money from Companies. Money that should have or could have been used to go back to Developers for them to continue building games.

They are just now trying to combat the fact companies arn't making all the money they are entitled to.

Because if I poor my time, heart, and soul into a product, I want to know I'm being compensated for that. The Developers deserve whatever they get. To be quiet honest though. If I could go to Bioware office and pay them my money Directly. I would. I don't trust Publishers. However I like to think the Developer has our best interests at heart.

They are gamers as well. There is no point in developing a game if no one else is going to see it.

Modifié par Daithin, 23 février 2012 - 09:55 .

[Draconis6666]

whitey4444 wrote...

I didn't realise it was three months between June (when this character news was originally leaked) and February. That's why I'm cynical about this.

Kasumi's existance was leaked a month or two before release and wasnt completed till months after thats not in and of itself proof of anything,

[Ianamus]

Omega Torsk wrote...

I think it's safe to say the presence of this thread is now considered a form of harassment. Please, Bioware... for all our sakes... lock it down.

If you don't like the thread then why are you clicking on it?

They shut down all threads about the DLC and told people to discuss it here. Whats the problem?

[ForceXev]

Omega Torsk wrote...

I think it's safe to say the presence of this thread is now considered a form of harassment. Please, Bioware... for all our sakes... lock it down.

Then they wouldn't have a convienient place to "dump" us if we try to open a new thread.  This is the toilet where EA Bioware can flush away any fans who don't agree with their business practices.

[DJBare]

Hey Draconis, when is the last time you slept?

[Goth Skunk]

EJ107 wrote...

Right, becuase only your opinion matters, and nobody else is entitled to theirs. 

If you don't like this thread or the opinions voiced here then don't click on it.

In terms of this thread, your opinion is the only thing you're entitled to.

[fropas]

Atakuma wrote...

fropas wrote...

TheStoner wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

TheStoner wrote...

Chozo_Hybrid wrote...

Why all the hate for this? It's just because its day one right? If it was witheld a few months and released would this be an issue?

I thought it was a reward for me forking out an extra $50 (in my country games are over priced in general) to get all the extra stuff. Now they give the option to those without buying the CE, the chance to experience everything anyway. I would have thought this a good thing?

It was never a collectors edition exclusive. The problem is that they made it before release and are releasing it as seperate paid dlc.

Oh?

XD One of the only things not marked as exclusive is this DLC.

So it's not exclusive, but it's still content some people are paying for you should have to pay for it as well.

It could be easily said that you are only paying for the "exclusive" stuff, I mean lithographs aren't cheap.

If I had a say in what I was buying I would ONLY buy the in-game content (it's all I care about) and I would gladly pay 70~75$ for that pack. I don't have any say in that. I was promised these features for 80$ and I'll be damned if some SE consumer gets them (ANY of them) for 60$...

[RiouHotaru]

ForceXev wrote...

A lot of people are debating whether or not the Prothean character is an important part of the story or not, whether the content can be called "optional" or not. But that is totally irrelevant. You're right, the Prothean IS technically optional. Probably more than 90% of the game can be called "optional." You could take out all of the romance scenes, and then put out a DLC called the "Romance Pack" and it would be exactly the same thing. Romance is optional. Personally, I wouldn't care because that stuff is not very important to me. But if they took it out and then sold it as a separate add-on, a lot of people would be livid.

This is no different. People who care a lot about the story, the lore and background of the ME universe feel that a Prothean character is just as important as the romance scenes are to people who are into the space soap opera stuff. You can't tell another person what is or is not important to them. Who are you to make that distinction for others? If you think the Prothean isn't important, good for you -- you don't need to buy it. But think about something that is important to you, whether it be romance arcs, the reunion with Ash/Kaiden, maybe even a favorite class you are looking forward to playing -- any of these things could be called "optional." You can play through the whole game without them, and you would still get all of the Reaper story. Would you still say it's OK to take out something and sell it separately if it is meaningful to you?

That's a poor argument and rife with logical fallacies.  The "romances", "game classes", and what not are all part of the CORE experience.  The game was designed with those in mind.  Claiming they're "optional" because their removal wouldn't impact the game (in your opinion) is silly because you weren't there for game development..  Again, simply because he's a Prothean doesn't suddenly make him vital.  Yes, he's a very nice piece of lore.  But no-one's experience would be diminished for not having him.

[Lufven1]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Lufven1 wrote...

I said "imagine removing Thane". I know you have to get certain character for the main story but does he adds anything to the main plot? He's just a side character with his own misson and dialogue. Removing him would not change the main story, it would just continue without him. Prothy™ is like most of the non-essential-to-the-plot-character in that removing him would not change a bit but adding him enhances the story.

But Thane also contributes to the Suicide Mission, and to the Holding the Line Segment.  You can succeed without Zaeed and Kasumi, since they're additional.  Thane's removal WOULD negatively impact your success because he's a core character.

The Prothean is NOT a core character.  His presence (or lack thereof) doesn't change the core experience.

Claiming he was a core character is just because he wasn't in a DLC but in the game from the very start. Zaeed could very much have been a core character (given a little more dialogue and fledged out mission) and Thane could have replaced him as the DLC. The thing I'm trying to say here is that certain characters aren't essential for the main story to continue. A lot of the characters in ME2 are mostly dialogue and a mission (plus a few lines in the main plot). Not all characters are but some, like Thane.

Similar to Prothy. He COULD be interesting though he's not essential. But then again, other character could behave in the same way.

[ArkkAngel007]

Maybe it needs to be said again (how many times are we going to do this?) so here: Javik was not cut from the game for DLC purposes.

Javik was cut during pre-development after review because the original concept of ME3 was dropped. To give fans something that, supposedly, they'd enjoy, Javik was allocated into DLC, as development was underway already and he no longer played a pivotal role in ME3. So concepts were redone for Javik and Eden Prime, and VO work and some markering was done during the main development of ME3. Once the main development was completed, work began proper on the DLC.

That's essentially the way it worked. If you feel like he shouldn't be DLC, that's your opinion and a personal issue, not BioWare's. But if you're going to run around screaming "cut-content" to the heavens, then you better understand what exactly you are talking about.

[Draconis6666]

DJBare wrote...

Hey Draconis, when is the last time you slept?

 few hours ago. Luckily i didnt miss anything for the 40 pages i missed since it was just rehasing the first 3 pages again like we have been for 191 now

[Drimberly]

@ Mr. Gamble and other Bioware staff.
Congrats.
You have made me buy day 1 DLC. As soon as I have the money.
Until then. Why YOU HEARTLESS CORPRATE SOULES PROFANITITIES!
Anyway, looks great from the voice. Cause who dont love Jamecia!!

[Ianamus]

Goth Skunk wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

Right, becuase only your opinion matters, and nobody else is entitled to theirs. 

If you don't like this thread or the opinions voiced here then don't click on it.

In terms of this thread, your opinion is the only thing you're entitled to.

Stop with this stupid "Self-entitlement" buisness -,-

I have the collectors edition pre-ordered. I'm getting the Prothean anyway.

I'm arguing for the people who don't becuase I think day 1 DLC is wrong- not becuase I want it free. 

[Solgineer]

Lufven1 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Lufven1 wrote...

I said "imagine removing Thane". I know you have to get certain character for the main story but does he adds anything to the main plot? He's just a side character with his own misson and dialogue. Removing him would not change the main story, it would just continue without him. Prothy™ is like most of the non-essential-to-the-plot-character in that removing him would not change a bit but adding him enhances the story.

But Thane also contributes to the Suicide Mission, and to the Holding the Line Segment.  You can succeed without Zaeed and Kasumi, since they're additional.  Thane's removal WOULD negatively impact your success because he's a core character.

The Prothean is NOT a core character.  His presence (or lack thereof) doesn't change the core experience.

Claiming he was a core character is just because he wasn't in a DLC but in the game from the very start. Zaeed could very much have been a core character (given a little more dialogue and fledged out mission) and Thane could have replaced him as the DLC. The thing I'm trying to say here is that certain characters aren't essential for the main story to continue. A lot of the characters in ME2 are mostly dialogue and a mission (plus a few lines in the main plot). Not all characters are but some, like Thane.

Similar to Prothy. He COULD be interesting though he's not essential. But then again, other character could behave in the same way.

I don't get what devs were thinking when some meathead like Vega was seen as essential as opposed to a Prothean.

[Errationatus]

"You know what the definition of insanity is?  The definition of insanity is comparing DA2 to ME3 and thinking that it's even remotely a cogent or intelligent comparison.  That is a definition of insanity."

"You know what the definition of insanity is?  The definition of insanity is constantly asserting that one thing is true when you haven't the slightest bit of proof and have been told over and over by the creators themselves how it went and still insisting your initial wrong assertion is the only truth that matters. That too is a definition of insanity." 

"You know what the definition of insanity is?  The definition of insanity.  That is the definition of insanity." 

Sparta.

[TheStoner]

JakeMacDon wrote...
Define "abnormal" behaviour.  Without a standard, there is no definitive definition of "normal" possible.  Thus "abnormal" is wholly subjective. 

That's one of the biggest problems in the psychiatry I hear. It's sometimes hard to tell the difference between abnormal and just different.

[AkiKishi]

fropas wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

fropas wrote...

TheStoner wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

TheStoner wrote...

Chozo_Hybrid wrote...

Why all the hate for this? It's just because its day one right? If it was witheld a few months and released would this be an issue?

I thought it was a reward for me forking out an extra $50 (in my country games are over priced in general) to get all the extra stuff. Now they give the option to those without buying the CE, the chance to experience everything anyway. I would have thought this a good thing?

It was never a collectors edition exclusive. The problem is that they made it before release and are releasing it as seperate paid dlc.

Oh?

XD One of the only things not marked as exclusive is this DLC.

So it's not exclusive, but it's still content some people are paying for you should have to pay for it as well.

It could be easily said that you are only paying for the "exclusive" stuff, I mean lithographs aren't cheap.

If I had a say in what I was buying I would ONLY buy the in-game content (it's all I care about) and I would gladly pay 70~75$ for that pack. I don't have any say in that. I was promised these features for 80$ and I'll be damned if some SE consumer gets them (ANY of them) for 60$...

Which is why in game content should not be part of a Collector Edition. You should not package "game advantage" unless you are a FTP MMO.

[The Enforcer OS]

Daithin wrote...

The Enforcer OS wrote...

[
I don't agree with the entitlement mentality that wants this DLC for free, but I do disagree with developer methodology.  I understand it costs more money.  Allow me to pay more for a Hard copy and I'm good.  
The challenge is that DLC is unregulated and too easy for developers to exploit.  20 years ago games didn't have patches, DLC, etc.  Games had to be finished out the door.  DLC has allowed too much leniency and opportunity to exploit consumers.   It's not all their fault, part of if is the consumer for allowing it to continue to happen.  Also the Console / Publishers are a bit at fault too because a flat $60 price point is not sustainable across all gases.  ME3 may be worth $80, charge me $80 and give me all the content (preferrably in hard copy)  which is why the CE exists I suppose.

I get what your saying, but Ten years ago, the Internet still wasnt advanced as it is now. The very idea of downloading something more then 100megs was near unheard of. Infact I remember broad band and such were in there infancy.

In order to put out a game the company had to be able to commit time, and money in not only the games production, but marketing and getting the product on physical shelves.

Times have changed. Vast amounts of data can be transferred easily now. It makes things like Patch's and even buying entire games and DLing them possible. Am I saying its not a slippery slope? No.

But what a company is asking is much smaller now then forcing us to wait a year or more for Expansions for a Game. I'll gladly pay money to a company I trust for something I want to play.

However to damned free things just because you compare 10 years ago with Today, is laughable at best. The world has changed. Places like Gamestop, and pirates have taken a huge chunk of money from Companies. Money that should have or could have been used to go back to Developers for them to continue building games.

They are just now trying to combat the fact companies arn't making all the money they are entitled to.

Because if I poor my time, heart, and soul into a product, I want to know I'm being compensated for that. The Developers deserve whatever they get. To be quiet honest though. If I could go to Bioware office and pay them my money Directly. I would. I don't trust Publishers. However I like to think the Developer has our best interests at heart.

They are gamers as well. There is no point in developing a game if no one else is going to see it.

I know times have changed.  That's why I respect there is still a need for expanding a game to make new sales.  I would like GOTY options, or complete editions to be possible once again.  Not because I disagree with developers tryign to stay in business.

[Descedent]

Drimberly wrote...

@ Mr. Gamble and other Bioware staff.
Congrats.
You have made me buy day 1 DLC. As soon as I have the money.
Until then. Why YOU HEARTLESS CORPRATE SOULES PROFANITITIES!
Anyway, looks great from the voice. Cause who dont love Jamecia!!

what the hell is Jamecia?

[LiquidLogic2020]

rainasa wrote...

LiquidLogic2020 wrote...

I got Zaeed for free in ME2, now you want £10 to unravel one of the biggest mystery's in ME3? Yeah not all of us ride the short bus.

the ceberus network was free to new copies to increase the ammount of sales that went to bioware but for ME3 multiplayer takes that role, so they added the squadmember into the CE and as Day one DLC, it is not rocket science

No it's not rocket science, it's money grabbing. 

[Kithrus]

RiouHotaru wrote...

ForceXev wrote...

A lot of people are debating whether or not the Prothean character is an important part of the story or not, whether the content can be called "optional" or not. But that is totally irrelevant. You're right, the Prothean IS technically optional. Probably more than 90% of the game can be called "optional." You could take out all of the romance scenes, and then put out a DLC called the "Romance Pack" and it would be exactly the same thing. Romance is optional. Personally, I wouldn't care because that stuff is not very important to me. But if they took it out and then sold it as a separate add-on, a lot of people would be livid.

This is no different. People who care a lot about the story, the lore and background of the ME universe feel that a Prothean character is just as important as the romance scenes are to people who are into the space soap opera stuff. You can't tell another person what is or is not important to them. Who are you to make that distinction for others? If you think the Prothean isn't important, good for you -- you don't need to buy it. But think about something that is important to you, whether it be romance arcs, the reunion with Ash/Kaiden, maybe even a favorite class you are looking forward to playing -- any of these things could be called "optional." You can play through the whole game without them, and you would still get all of the Reaper story. Would you still say it's OK to take out something and sell it separately if it is meaningful to you?

That's a poor argument and rife with logical fallacies.  The "romances", "game classes", and what not are all part of the CORE experience.  The game was designed with those in mind.  Claiming they're "optional" because their removal wouldn't impact the game (in your opinion) is silly because you weren't there for game development..  Again, simply because he's a Prothean doesn't suddenly make him vital.  Yes, he's a very nice piece of lore.  But no-one's experience would be diminished for not having him.

My issue isn't that whats in the DLC persay as much as the price and the DLC should have been in the game  anyway. It wasn't made after it was made during which is not fair. Include it in the game for a fair cost or make it free don't try to reach into my wallet. bioware knows if they are fair they get my money. Demanding more just makes me close my wallet.

Modifié par Kithrus, 23 février 2012 - 10:00 .

[AlanC9]

Solgineer wrote...

I don't get what devs were thinking when some meathead like Vega was seen as essential as opposed to a Prothean.

Simple. You need to be able to put a full squad together from the very start of ME3 no matter who got killed in ME2.