Niemack Saarinen wrote...
Tiax Rules All wrote...
collectors editions should not consist of story, plot or gamplay additions.
CE people are (should be) paying for hardcover artbooks, lithographs, soundtracks (cosmetic stuff)
because you say so?
Goth Skunk wrote...
foo man chew wrote...
And almost 200 pages later.people defending this day one dlc are just as much of the problem as ever because they not only allow companies to do this to them they are actually so pathetic they defend the company thats ripping them of.
Hey, idiot, I can think for myself. I will be the judge of whether or not I'm being ripped off. Not you, and not anyone else in this thread.
On that note, no, neither Bioware nor EA is ripping me off.
You, and your kind, are the problem with the gaming community. You and your kind are the reason why the general public looks upon us with such shock and disdain, thinking that at 30 years of age we all still live in our parents basements and work some menial, minimum wage job. They cannot fathom anyone actually being successful playing video games for recreation.
Don't EVER speak for me.
ForceXev wrote...
RiouHotaru wrote...
ForceXev wrote...
A lot of people are debating whether or not the Prothean character is an important part of the story or not, whether the content can be called "optional" or not. But that is totally irrelevant. You're right, the Prothean IS technically optional. Probably more than 90% of the game can be called "optional." You could take out all of the romance scenes, and then put out a DLC called the "Romance Pack" and it would be exactly the same thing. Romance is optional. Personally, I wouldn't care because that stuff is not very important to me. But if they took it out and then sold it as a separate add-on, a lot of people would be livid.
This is no different. People who care a lot about the story, the lore and background of the ME universe feel that a Prothean character is just as important as the romance scenes are to people who are into the space soap opera stuff. You can't tell another person what is or is not important to them. Who are you to make that distinction for others? If you think the Prothean isn't important, good for you -- you don't need to buy it. But think about something that is important to you, whether it be romance arcs, the reunion with Ash/Kaiden, maybe even a favorite class you are looking forward to playing -- any of these things could be called "optional." You can play through the whole game without them, and you would still get all of the Reaper story. Would you still say it's OK to take out something and sell it separately if it is meaningful to you?
That's a poor argument and rife with logical fallacies. The "romances", "game classes", and what not are all part of the CORE experience. The game was designed with those in mind.
Companion characters are part of the "CORE" experience, too. The game was designed with them in mind.Claiming they're "optional" because their removal wouldn't impact the
game (in your opinion) is silly because you weren't there for game
development..
That doesn't even make sense. I can't say romances are optional because I wasn't there for development? I don't need to be there for development to know that I could have played ME and ME2 without ever starting a romance. And you only need 1 game class to play through the game. They could easily have condensed it to 4 classes, and then offered a 5th class as bonus content. No different than what they're doing with the Prothean.Again, simply because he's a Prothean doesn't suddenly
make him vital. Yes, he's a very nice piece of lore. But no-one's
experience would be diminished for not having him.
You can't speak for everyone's experience. "He's a very nice peice of lore" may be the most important statement to someone who cares a lot about lore. I would trade all of the romance scenes and 100 hours of combat for one "very nice piece of lore." It absolutely diminishes my experience to miss out on this character.
RiouHotaru wrote...
Tiax Rules All wrote...
I boggles my mind when people think they can and should defend practices like this.
I want to credit them with having thier own opinions but it just seems they are either blinded by fandom, lack common sense or otherwise are just poor consumers.
Do know why we're defending it? Because we have the devs telling us what the process is and how the development works. It's clear that (at least for Bioware) the claim that "content is purposefully cut, delayed, then sold back" is a lie where they are concerned.
Casey and Mike have both stated with sincereity that the reason From Ashes is "Day 1 DLC" is so that everyone who wants to enjoy it, can. Not just the folks lucky enough to get a CE pre-order.
Our_Last_Scene wrote...
Just to ask, why do people who demand this for free call Bioware greedy?
ArkkAngel007 wrote...
Tiax and Bluumberry just summed up the main opinion of all the people in the thread who have nothing better to do than be arrogant, narrow-minded individuals who won't even listen.
To the mentioned above: Not directed at the two of you specifically, just stating the issue with the thread using your comments.
Lufven1 wrote...
Niemack Saarinen wrote...
Tiax Rules All wrote...
collectors editions should not consist of story, plot or gamplay additions.
CE people are (should be) paying for hardcover artbooks, lithographs, soundtracks (cosmetic stuff)
because you say so?
Yes. I thought you were all collectors? Why else would you want to pay more for a regular game? Collectors Editions...well, the name says it.
Our_Last_Scene wrote...
Just to ask, why do people who demand this for free call Bioware greedy?
No because people don't want to have to pay extra for things that could have been easily included with the game in the first place. Some just don't think it's fair that some people get more game than others.Niemack Saarinen wrote...
Tiax Rules All wrote...
collectors editions should not consist of story, plot or gamplay additions.
CE people are (should be) paying for hardcover artbooks, lithographs, soundtracks (cosmetic stuff)
because you say so?
nightcobra8928 wrote...
more like ok if it was handled like ME2, the base price of a new game and everyone got it free. too much to keep a consistent business practice?
fropas wrote...
Tiax Rules All wrote...
collectors editions should not consist of story, plot or gamplay additions.
CE people are (should be) paying for hardcover artbooks, lithographs, soundtracks (cosmetic stuff)
. . . No I bought my CE specifically because in-game content was promised. BW is not Bethesda. I got 2 exclusive in-game sets of armor because I bought ME2 CE and I knew they would reward me for buying a CE a second time. I'm sorry you feel differently, but no I paid for in game perks.
The question is why this is not already a part of the game.Goth Skunk wrote...
The Narf wrote...
Well, it is fine if you want to pay extra cool, buy the CE with some aesthetic cool outfits, but when they exclude content from the game because of time or team differences in development it is just plain wrong.
I can pay the extra money for the extra content, is it ok? No, no by god it is not. When one buy a game the team behind it should live up to the trust given to them and give the players paying all they have made, after that they can continue to develop extra content for the ubber fans to buy. But a Prothean is just not for the ubber fans, that is the thing which the game evolves around.
They are milking their fans. And that is just not O.K.
No. They are not. They are offering customers that are willing to pay more for bonus content exactly what they want.
fropas wrote...
Tiax Rules All wrote...
collectors editions should not consist of story, plot or gamplay additions.
CE people are (should be) paying for hardcover artbooks, lithographs, soundtracks (cosmetic stuff)
. . . No I bought my CE specifically because in-game content was promised. BW is not Bethesda. I got 2 exclusive in-game sets of armor because I bought ME2 CE and I knew they would reward me for buying a CE a second time. I'm sorry you feel differently, but no I paid for in game perks.
Modifié par nightcobra8928, 23 février 2012 - 10:26 .
Tiax Rules All wrote...
ArkkAngel007 wrote...
Tiax and Bluumberry just summed up the main opinion of all the people in the thread who have nothing better to do than be arrogant, narrow-minded individuals who won't even listen.
To the mentioned above: Not directed at the two of you specifically, just stating the issue with the thread using your comments.
The problem is listening. You listen to EA reps and Bioware cummunity reps too much. You believe everything they say as golden god facts.
I don't believe this is an innocent "totally extra content"
You cannot convince me that this piece of gameplay does not belong in the main game for free or at least free with new purchases.
I have read, researced commented on this practice here for YEARS. Don't tell me I dont listen. I see your side. I just find it totaly wrong and dismissive of the issue.
Hardwired wrote...
Thats a tall speech coming from you man. All you have done today is put people down and been insulting. I would venture so far as to say that you, and people like you, are closer to the problem with the gaming community today
ForceXev wrote...
RiouHotaru wrote...
ForceXev wrote...
A lot of people are debating whether or not the Prothean character is an important part of the story or not, whether the content can be called "optional" or not. But that is totally irrelevant. You're right, the Prothean IS technically optional. Probably more than 90% of the game can be called "optional." You could take out all of the romance scenes, and then put out a DLC called the "Romance Pack" and it would be exactly the same thing. Romance is optional. Personally, I wouldn't care because that stuff is not very important to me. But if they took it out and then sold it as a separate add-on, a lot of people would be livid.
This is no different. People who care a lot about the story, the lore and background of the ME universe feel that a Prothean character is just as important as the romance scenes are to people who are into the space soap opera stuff. You can't tell another person what is or is not important to them. Who are you to make that distinction for others? If you think the Prothean isn't important, good for you -- you don't need to buy it. But think about something that is important to you, whether it be romance arcs, the reunion with Ash/Kaiden, maybe even a favorite class you are looking forward to playing -- any of these things could be called "optional." You can play through the whole game without them, and you would still get all of the Reaper story. Would you still say it's OK to take out something and sell it separately if it is meaningful to you?
That's a poor argument and rife with logical fallacies. The "romances", "game classes", and what not are all part of the CORE experience. The game was designed with those in mind.
Companion characters are part of the "CORE" experience, too. The game was designed with them in mind.Claiming they're "optional" because their removal wouldn't impact the
game (in your opinion) is silly because you weren't there for game
development..
That doesn't even make sense. I can't say romances are optional because I wasn't there for development? I don't need to be there for development to know that I could have played ME and ME2 without ever starting a romance. And you only need 1 game class to play through the game. They could easily have condensed it to 4 classes, and then offered a 5th class as bonus content. No different than what they're doing with the Prothean.Again, simply because he's a Prothean doesn't suddenly
make him vital. Yes, he's a very nice piece of lore. But no-one's
experience would be diminished for not having him.
You can't speak for everyone's experience. "He's a very nice peice of lore" may be the most important statement to someone who cares a lot about lore. I would trade all of the romance scenes and 100 hours of combat for one "very nice piece of lore." It absolutely diminishes my experience to miss out on this character.
Modifié par rainasa, 23 février 2012 - 10:27 .
Niemack Saarinen wrote...
Lufven1 wrote...
Niemack Saarinen wrote...
Tiax Rules All wrote...
collectors editions should not consist of story, plot or gamplay additions.
CE people are (should be) paying for hardcover artbooks, lithographs, soundtracks (cosmetic stuff)
because you say so?
Yes. I thought you were all collectors? Why else would you want to pay more for a regular game? Collectors Editions...well, the name says it.
Because we're not poor slyna's.
Master DJB wrote...
I get rather annoyed, when there is exclusive content for people who bother to buy the CE, and end up having to share the content with people who did not bother to buy it. CE is for fans, so therefore I think that it should have extra stuff that others do not get. I hope that the rest of CE gear is not released to non-CE buyers, as it would end up having the CE buyers angry that the paid extra for nothing, and that it is no longer exclusive!
Tiax Rules All wrote...
ArkkAngel007 wrote...
Tiax and Bluumberry just summed up the main opinion of all the people in the thread who have nothing better to do than be arrogant, narrow-minded individuals who won't even listen.
To the mentioned above: Not directed at the two of you specifically, just stating the issue with the thread using your comments.
The problem is listening. You listen to EA reps and Bioware cummunity reps too much. You believe everything they say as golden god facts.
I don't believe this is an innocent "totally extra content"
You cannot convince me that this piece of gameplay does not belong in the main game for free or at least free with new purchases.
I have read, researced commented on this practice here for YEARS. Don't tell me I dont listen. I see your side. I just find it totaly wrong and dismissive of the issue.
Tiax Rules All wrote...
ArkkAngel007 wrote...
Tiax and Bluumberry just summed up the main opinion of all the people in the thread who have nothing better to do than be arrogant, narrow-minded individuals who won't even listen.
To the mentioned above: Not directed at the two of you specifically, just stating the issue with the thread using your comments.
The problem is listening. You listen to EA reps and Bioware cummunity reps too much. You believe everything they say as golden god facts.
I don't believe this is an innocent "totally extra content"
You cannot convince me that this piece of gameplay does not belong in the main game for free or at least free with new purchases.
I have read, researced [sic] commented on this practice here for YEARS. Don't tell me I dont listen. I see your side. I just find it totaly wrong and dismissive of the issue.
all these conspiracy theories sound funny considering were talking about a video game company.
Goth Skunk wrote...
foo man chew wrote...
And almost 200 pages later.people defending this day one dlc are just
as much of the problem as ever because they not only allow companies to
do this to them they are actually so pathetic they defend the company
thats ripping them of.
Hey, idiot, I can think for
myself. I will be the judge of whether or not I'm being ripped off. Not
you, and not anyone else in this thread.
On that note, no, neither Bioware nor EA is ripping me off.
You,
and your kind, are the problem with the gaming community. You and your
kind are the reason why the general public looks upon us with such shock
and disdain, thinking that at 30 years of age we all still live in our
parents basements and work some menial, minimum wage job. They cannot
fathom anyone actually being successful playing video games for
recreation.
Don't EVER speak for me.
RiouHotaru wrote...
Tiax Rules All wrote...
I boggles my mind when people think they can and should defend practices like this.
I want to credit them with having thier own opinions but it just seems they are either blinded by fandom, lack common sense or otherwise are just poor consumers.
Do know why we're defending it? Because we have the devs telling us what the process is and how the development works. It's clear that (at least for Bioware) the claim that "content is purposefully cut, delayed, then sold back" is a lie where they are concerned.
Casey and Mike have both stated with sincereity that the reason From Ashes is "Day 1 DLC" is so that everyone who wants to enjoy it, can. Not just the folks lucky enough to get a CE pre-order.
Guest_Imperium Alpha_*
Yuoaman wrote...
fropas wrote...
Tiax Rules All wrote...
collectors editions should not consist of story, plot or gamplay additions.
CE people are (should be) paying for hardcover artbooks, lithographs, soundtracks (cosmetic stuff)
. . . No I bought my CE specifically because in-game content was promised. BW is not Bethesda. I got 2 exclusive in-game sets of armor because I bought ME2 CE and I knew they would reward me for buying a CE a second time. I'm sorry you feel differently, but no I paid for in game perks.
I may just be old fashioned but in my mind a Collector's Edition should contain stuff for collector's, not stuff that every fan would want.
This man deserves a cookie.JakeMacDon wrote...
Somewhere, North America, 11:48AM
Bioware Motors, Canada
Dealer: Good afternoon, sir! Welcome to Bioware Motors.
Patron1: Yeah, thanks. Whatchagot?
Dealer: Our latest model, sir - the ME3 Turbo SE. Just delivered from the factory a week ago.
Patron1: Oh, yeah? What's it got? Looks sporty.
Dealer: For only 60, you get all the standard equipment, plus AC, a 3-CD player, faux leather interior, computer-controlled braking system, an onboard GPS and a computer-assisted gasoline monitor that helps you save money. It can use all three gasoline types with equal efficiency. It comes with bucket seats, and can be equipped as a standard or automatic, and is backed by our warranty assuring future upgrades, for a small fee.
Patron1: That's pretty sweet. Not bad. I do believe I'll take it.
Dealer: Thank you, sir, I...
Patron2: Hey there, Patron1! I see you're just about to buy the ME3 Turbo SE.
Patron1: Yup. It's pretty nice. Sporty. I bought the 2007 model and the 2009 one. I like this series.
Patron2: I agree, I did too, that's why I went for the Me3 HyperLX this time. It's got everything yours has, except it has real leather heated seats, 12 CD -Changer in the upholstered trunk, full surround sound and full ABS. It can also use diesel and cooking grease to power it, with the option to upgrade to full hydrocell in the future! It also has a skid control built in and full power steering. It also comes in Hyperblack, which only the LX has. A bit steep, over 90 to get it, but I think it was worth it. Had it all installed today, too. Sweet, huh?
Patron1: WTF!? Hey, dealer, you piece of crap - how come he gets extras? Huh? You lying scum - what the hell are you trying to pull?!?
Dealer: I don't understand the problem, sir?
Patron1: Look, technically they're the same car, aren't they? Same chassis, same engine, same wheels?
Dealer: With minor differences, technically, yes.
Patron1: That's what I thought! But he gets all the extras?
Dealer: Well, it is the luxury edition, sir. However, for 10 more we can include...
Patron1: Oh, no, you don't, you damned con artist! If these two cars were technically identical when they were designed, then I want all those extras for free! I bought the last two cars in this series! I'm entitled!
Dealer: Uh... sorry...?
Patron2: How do you figure that you're entitled to a luxury edition when you were ready to buy the standard? That makes no sense. It never included the extras because it's the standard edition.
Patron1: Look, ******! They're the same car! At some point, a designer made the decision that all those extras could be installed onto the same body and the only real difference is the name! I deserve those extras because I bought the same car! The same, the same, the same! Just because they're pandering to you rich basturds doesn't mean I shouldn't have it too! FFS! And you should kiss my a ss and offer me something just for me for the privilege of me buying one of your cars in the first place! And kiss my a ss!
Dealer: Uh... you bought the standard edition. We can install those extras are only 10 more...
Patron1: I don't care if they're five or one or a hundred more! I deserve them free because I bought the same car he did technically! Free because I bought two cars here before! That proves I deserve it! I say I do so I do!
Patron2: I don't think so. Listen to yourself.
Patron1: Aha! You just screwing me then? Rip off! Gyp! Thievery! Injustice! Unfettered greedy capitalism! It so figures! That all you do to the beaten down guy who can barely afford a big screen tv and two consoles and a computer! And you said it was afternoon, when technically it's not noon yet! Conspiracy! Lies everywhere! I'm cancelling my car payment and going to the Bethesda Auto because even if their cars tend to stall they're nicer than you... and another thing... boobs in Witcher motors - superior!.....
Dealer: Wow.
Patron2: Lack of thorazine in his diet, from the looks of it...
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