13369 réponses à ce sujet

[nightlordv]

Niemack Saarinen wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

collectors editions should not consist of story, plot or gamplay additions.

CE people are (should be) paying for hardcover artbooks, lithographs, soundtracks (cosmetic stuff)

because you say so? 

Because thats how it should be. For years CE did not consist of extra content that could be played in game outside of soundtracks, artbooks, etc. But in today's day and age of money grubbing big industry that try to nickle and dime consumers constantly its standard practice and its wrong. But its not going to change because people won't stand up and say they had enough, and they continue to allow big companies and the government take advantage of them.

I wouldn't mind what Bioware/EA did with this DLC if it consisted of some character like Zaeed, he was just some merc who had a half hour or so story element mission and played no impact at all on the main story. This is different, this is a Prothean, the race that this whole universe in ME practically revolved around in terms of plot. Take out the Prothean and add in the extra costumes, weapons, and whatnot, and no i wouldn't mind that not being in the standard edition and exlusive to the CE.

Look at Shale in DAO, she was one of the BEST characters, not only lore wise, but also throughout the entire game. DAO would not have been the same in my opinion without Shale. The fact that the main plot even had a story breaking element specifically if you brought Shale with you shows that her character was an important one.

Whether this Prothean is important to the plot or not is irrelevant, any ME fan would love to have one as a squad mate. This isn't a ship crew member that you just talk to, they actually come with you on missions. That to me is what makes me feel cheated for buying the standard edition and not have this included.

Modifié par nightlordv, 23 février 2012 - 10:36 .

[Goth Skunk]

Hardwired wrote...

Thats too bad, but it doesn't give you an all access pass to treat people like crap. If you can't stand the opinions of other, however diffrent from your they may be, then I don't really see why you even attemp to take part in a discussion.

Nor do people have all-access passes to hurl the libelous claims and harassing things they've been hurling at EA or BioWare, but that seems to be the topique du jour.

There are two sides to every argument, and I am meeting the wrong side with equal or stronger venom than they've been. But this is the internet, and even when proven wrong time and time again, entitlists will still cling to their flawed viewpoints. They must all be met with vitriol and be told to grow up.

[Atakuma]

AlanC9 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...
No because people don't want to have to pay extra for things that could have been easily included with the game in the first place. Some just don't think it's fair that some people get more game than others.

It's not fair for people who pay for more game to get more game?

No it's not, because there shouldn't be more game to pay for.

Modifié par Atakuma, 23 février 2012 - 10:38 .

[fropas]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

fropas wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Tiax and Bluumberry just summed up the main opinion of all the people in the thread who have nothing better to do than be arrogant, narrow-minded individuals who won't even listen.

To the mentioned above: Not directed at the two of you specifically, just stating the issue with the thread using your comments.

The problem is listening. You listen to EA reps and Bioware cummunity reps too much. You believe everything they say as golden god facts.

I don't believe this is an innocent "totally extra content"

You cannot convince me that this piece of gameplay does not belong in the main game for free or at least free with new purchases.

I have read, researced [sic] commented on this practice here for YEARS. Don't tell me I dont listen. I see your side. I just find it totaly wrong and dismissive of the issue.

Teehee  all these conspiracy theories sound funny considering were talking about a video game company.

Its not a conspiricy theory, its the real world of business. Its harsh and its dishonest by nature. You have to be an educated consumer. How many commision based salesman have told you to leave their store and buy the same product cheaper elsewhere? you have to do that research on your own.

sry. it sounds funny that's all I meant, and yes you do have to be a responsible consumer. BUYER BEWARE. This is one of the consequences of living in a capitalist society. You could always wait a few months and buy the game on Amazon.com.

You do have options open to you if you just want to save a buck, but corporations are always after your money, that's just how it is.

[Tiax Rules All]

AlanC9 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...
No because people don't want to have to pay extra for things that could have been easily included with the game in the first place. Some just don't think it's fair that some people get more game than others.

It's not fair for people who pay for more game to get more game?

I dont care how much more "STUFF" Collectors Editions get...

I just don't want them to get more "GAME"

My SE will not feel complete. It doesn't matter what anybody else says otherwise. 

$70            =/= complete game
$70 + $10    =  complete game
$90 CE        =  complete game

its just not right. Its dirty, Its dispicable and quite frankly obvoius.

[Varen Spectre]

Draconis6666 wrote...

Development costs go up with inflation, games cost more and more to make every year. At the same time the money brought in from those games is worth less and less every year. Making $15 million dollars one year and $16 the next seems like you are making more money but it can easily be an actual loss of revenue or profit becasuse of currency devaluation. Gamers are extremely spoiled that the industry has several means to counter inflation beyond what other luxury good industries have. If people disagree with those methods then thats perfecty fine and within their right to do so but they should not expect to see an end to those methods without expecting to pay more for the base unit in return. Thats naive and just shows a lack of understanding of economics, or even how the world works.

Interesting post. I liked it, even though I may not agree with it completely...

Based on that, I suppose that the general ratio behind "stopping" or "reducing" the DLC system maybe, like you said, even at the expense of increasing the price of the base unit is, that it would make the tracking of evolution of prices and decision making about buying or not buying games easier for consumers again.

I mean, when a base unit / game would cost for example 60 $ and suddenly the cost of the sequel would go up to 80 $, it would be easier for a consumer to decide, whether the offer would still be fair for him / her or not. Now with plenty of separate DLCs, some smaller, some larger, some maybe completely minor, but all for different prices, it is much harder to keep the track of them all and to asses whether and which are "worthy" and which are "unnecessarily expensive". As a result IMO, the consumers are much more inclined to make decisions - i.e. buy some DLCs, which they would regret in future. Or at least they are more affraid of that with this system, so they disagree with it.

I guess, that's also another reason, in addition to the fact, that they were released way after the original games so that it seemed like developers have spent all their time before the realease of vanila games purely on the games themselves, why expansion packs weren't perceived so negatively IMO. Because it was easier to examine a single larger product and make a single decision.

Not saying that I agree with that completely or that more choices is a bad thing, but I would probably still prefer it that way as well.

And one little remark, IMO the individual perceptions of whether some company is "greedier" than it "should be" or not aren't and shouldn't be based on the condition of entire gaming industry, as IMO some of your posts imply, but on the condition of the company or sometimes only part of it itself. And given how it seems, that numbers of preorders for Mass Effect 3 already doubled the numbers for Mass Effect 2 and grow faster week by week, it's probably not so hard to see Bioware's DLC policy as... little bit... excessive. At least in comparison to some other companies. But for me personally it's not a big deal anyway.

Modifié par Varen Spectre, 23 février 2012 - 10:47 .

[CrazySpoon]

sorry Bioware i had pre-ordered ME3. now I'll be returning it. no worries, money isn't my issue, I just refuse to reward you for how poorly you've treated a loyal gamer and supporter. buy hey, I'm just one person

[Goth Skunk]

Atakuma wrote...

No it's not because there shouldn't be more game to pay for.

Welcome to real life. Hope you were given fair warning in advance.

You weren't? Oh dear... better hang on tight then!

[RiouHotaru]

Atakuma wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...
No because people don't want to have to pay extra for things that could have been easily included with the game in the first place. Some just don't think it's fair that some people get more game than others.

It's not fair for people who pay for more game to get more game?

No it's not, because there shouldn't be more game to pay for.

So there should NEVER be DLC or expansions?  Because that's technically "more game"

[Draconis6666]

Lufven1 wrote...

I'm much more interested in what is NOT said in public actually. You shouldn't believe everything said on the internet, especially on Twitter.

Part of the point is that for an actual debate to take place its now the responsibility of the people who believe the statement Bioware has made to provide proof that these things are not the case. In most cases they fail to do so and just reply wiht "your lying i dont believe you durr" which is not a logical form of debate and doesnt help their case.

Unless you have proof that what bioware claims about the development cycle is false you have only conjecture to base your OPINION around. You do not however base arguments on Opinion and expect them to hold much weight, if you do you are foolish because if arguments are based on Opinion they are pointless from the beginning because everyone is immediately wrong and immediately right.

[Goth Skunk]

CrazySpoon wrote...

sorry Bioware i had pre-ordered ME3. now I'll be returning it. no worries, money isn't my issue, I just refuse to reward you for how poorly you've treated a loyal gamer and supporter. buy hey, I'm just one person

Goodbye.

[Evilelf007]

Collectors edition should have anything the intellectual property owner feels they want it to have! This is America, they can sell their product how they want to!

[nightcobra]

AlanC9 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...
No because people don't want to have to pay extra for things that could have been easily included with the game in the first place. Some just don't think it's fair that some people get more game than others.

It's not fair for people who pay for more game to get more game?

no, it isn't because that's not what a collector's edition should be in the first place
the extra cost is for collectibles, the in-game content makes it seem more enticing when it really would be better if they repeated the same thing they did with ME2 and have free day one DLC for every new copy and you get the collectibles and the free day one DLC as well benifiting every consumer who buys new.

[ArkkAngel007]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Tiax and Bluumberry just summed up the main opinion of all the people in the thread who have nothing better to do than be arrogant, narrow-minded individuals who won't even listen.

To the mentioned above: Not directed at the two of you specifically, just stating the issue with the thread using your comments.

The problem is listening. You listen to EA reps and Bioware cummunity reps too much. You believe everything they say as golden god facts.

I don't believe this is an innocent "totally extra content"

You cannot convince me that this piece of gameplay does not belong in the main game for free or at least free with new purchases.

I have read, researced commented on this practice here for YEARS. Don't tell me I dont listen. I see your side. I just find it totaly wrong and dismissive of the issue.

And like I said, I wasn't indicating that it was necessarily the case with you.

And I don't listen to anyone without evidence.  I'm not trustworthy by nature, and everyone is always lying about something at somepoint.

But I know the background of the content very well, and have an excellant understanding of development process in various mediums, game development among them.  So I have the experience and evidence to back my claim, and Mike was about as honest as he could be currently.

However, I don't agree with the handling of the situation.  Either it should have been exclusive to the CE for some time, or handled like the Cerberus Network.  Preferably, and this is just my personal opinion, Javik should have been completely dropped instead of reallocating him in the redrafts.

It's not the defending the DLC, I'm just making it very clear what the situation is so that people aren't spreading misinformation.

[robdisco]

It's funny how "up-in-arms" people are getting over this... No one is being forced to purchase anything. Does anyone really believe that any of this content is integral to the story? Because Zaeed and Kasumi were soooo integral to the ME2 storyline...

I, for one, am glad they decided to release this content to the general public on day one. I've never preordered a game and I likely never will because of all the BS bonuses that are made available to specific retailers. It's frustrating knowing that because someone ordered the game early from Best Buy they'll be getting something the people who ordered from Gamestop can't get and vice-versa.

It wouldn't be as big of a deal if all preorder DLC was available to purchase on day one for all games with those who actually preorder getting it for free.

[Goth Skunk]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

By the way quit this forum too. We wont miss you. 

Not before every whiny little **** has left first and this thread is locked down.

[Nezzer]

Actronic Artvision presents Mass of Duty: Modern Effect 3, with one of the most important characters of the series as Day 1 DLC. Want to defeat the Reapers? Buy the From Ashes DLC for only 10 dollars, or else the Reapers will win!

[The Narf]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...
No because people don't want to have to pay extra for things that could have been easily included with the game in the first place. Some just don't think it's fair that some people get more game than others.

It's not fair for people who pay for more game to get more game?

I dont care how much more "STUFF" Collectors Editions get...

I just don't want them to get more "GAME"

My SE will not feel complete. It doesn't matter what anybody else says otherwise. 

$70            =/= complete game
$70 + $10    =  complete game
$90 CE        =  complete game

its just not right. Its dirty, Its dispicable and quite frankly obvoius.

Hail!

[wrdnshprd]

rainasa wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

Michael Gamble wrote...

I've read all 96 pages of this thread. Contrary to popular thoughts, we really do care what you guys have to say.

Casey and I have explained how the development timeline on these DLC go, and in order to have our DLC flow with the main game, we do have to integrate the VO into certain places in the core product (Certain ME2 DLCs followed this same pattern). But there's a lot of work to crafting a great DLC, outside of the VO and script.

That said, i can tell you is that a team of of us poured our heart into this DLC after we had given all we could to finish the the ME3 game. We pushed hard because we wanted people to be able to experience this adventure on the first day, rather than day 30 or 60. We're proud of it, and if you choose to play it, I think you'll see that.

I really do appreciate every person who wants to give ME3 a chance (even if you're not happy with me right now!), and even without 'From Ashes' - I think you will be blown away.

Thanks for your support, and thanks for your feedback.

Mike

i have a hard time believing this DLC is any different than the shale/zaeed DLC.. please explain how those were free with EVERY version (standard or CE), while this DLC is not.

i have no doubt the DLC will be great.  thats not the issue.

what is the issue, is you guys are rewarding a select amount of your playerbase (CE buyers) and expecting the rest to shell out an extra $10, because i guess we arent 'most fans'.

cant you see how that would upset some people..

anyway.. think ive said my peace enough..

the ceberus network was free because it was a marketing ploy by Bioware to get people to continue to by a new version of the game instead of a used one. but for mass effect 3 multiplayer takes that position, so they added the squadmember into the CE and as day one DLC

then why is bioware trying to justify this by saying something else - i.e.

in order to have our DLC flow with the main game, we do have to
integrate the VO into certain places in the core product (Certain ME2
DLCs followed this same pattern).

and even if they used your justification, it doesnt make it right. 

my point was, the mechanism is there for them to make this DLC free for those that purchase the game new, but bioware chose to go money grubbing route, and people just turn the other cheek like its no big deal.

this may only be a video game, but its a hobby i rather enjoy.  i WANT bioware to be a great company.  in the past i thought they were.. not any more.  the only way they can make this go away is buy doing what they should have done in the first place.. make the DLC free for EVERYONE that bought the game new.

[hebejebe999]

having read things so far i find i agree with what alot of people are saying. the main two problems i have with DLC for mass effect so far is:

1. i feel there should be an option for people to make one purchase and have access to everything offered for a game, there's nothing wrong with this having a higher price tag, but i'd like to just pay once and be able to get all the extra guns, weapons, characters etc, not have to buy lots of extra merchandise if i just want the additional game content.

2. my main problem with from the ashes is the fact it allows a prothean squad mate, the story of mass effect is based on the reapers and their past which most recently involved the protheans and it's down to that conflict that gave way to the universes current state of affairs. the protheans are STORY CENTRIC characters who so far as to everyones knowledge have been wiped out, anyone who plays mass effect and has even the slightest bit of intrest of the story i think would want this content, yes they've made it optional in retail terms, and no one has to get it if they dont want it, but such a thing for anyone who's a mass effect fan, or supported this series with the first and second game wouldent pass this up, because it's a character from an INTEGRAL race in the story of the game. they established the race and their circumstances from the getgo in the first game, and now they're making a character from that race available as paid for content, even if it's their right to make content and offer it for sale at launch, i think it's not all that fair to do it, i people shouldent have to pay extra for more content the day they start to play the game, optional or not, but i really do think anyone who's been a fan of this series, anyone who's got ANY intrest in the story at all, will feel they have to purchase this content, as it'll contain such a vital part of the lore and story.

[Tiax Rules All]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...
No because people don't want to have to pay extra for things that could have been easily included with the game in the first place. Some just don't think it's fair that some people get more game than others.

It's not fair for people who pay for more game to get more game?

No it's not, because there shouldn't be more game to pay for.

So there should NEVER be DLC or expansions?  Because that's technically "more game"

Why do people insist on trying to muddy the waters here. Expansions are different from "day 1 DLC" stop trying to perpetuate a doublespeak comment that was born out of the mouth of salesmen trying to get you to pay for thier products.

[Atakuma]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...
No because people don't want to have to pay extra for things that could have been easily included with the game in the first place. Some just don't think it's fair that some people get more game than others.

It's not fair for people who pay for more game to get more game?

No it's not, because there shouldn't be more game to pay for.

So there should NEVER be DLC or expansions?  Because that's technically "more game"

To clarify, I mean't there shouldn't be more game on release.

Modifié par Atakuma, 23 février 2012 - 10:43 .