13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Kithrus]

You all been indoctrinated.... Day One DLC is a Crime doesn't matter whats in it. It should be free or in the game. I paid them for that development time in the price of the game they are double dipping into my wallet.

This is why I'm not buying the game.

Modifié par Kithrus, 23 février 2012 - 10:43 .

[Lufven1]

Evilelf007 wrote...

Collectors edition should have anything the intellectual property owner feels they want it to have! This is America, they can sell their product how they want to!

And seeing as you like murica you should also note that poeple have the right to disagree with BW's corporate methods, democracy and all that jazz.

[Balvale]

I have been thinking about whether or not I want to purchase this game. I don't have the full details on the DLC so I don't know how integral it is to the Mass Effect universe. At the same time, I don't like the idea of having the money squeezed out of me. I don't want to buy the collectors edition for 20 dollars more just to get the DLC. I also can't see myself paying 10 dollars for a squad mate that could have been in the game at launch. I feel that DLC should make me come back to a game. Something purely after release that enriches the experience and encourages me to come back and play more.

The car without a steering wheel is an incorrect analogy. The game stands on its own without the DLC. But DLC like this sets a bad precedent. What if the Bioware team put resources into creating a different story ending that came as a paid DLC and was available at launch? The core game is still there. The story has an ending without the DLC. However, I couldn't help but feel ripped off. A large story element would be denied to me. The same could be said about paragon and renegade options. "Lets give your Sheppard the opportunity to react in a new way, a unique deviation from the standard hero or jerk options." If they had that developed and ready for launch but sold it as a DLC, I'd be pissed because I'd feel my Sheppard couldn't express himself to the full extent the game provides. I'd feel better if it came further down the road, of course. It would get me to play again.

As it stands, I'm leaning heavily towards not buying on day one and just buying the game used. I don't like the way this DLC is being handled and I don't want to support it. That pains me because I am, despite my feelings on this matter, a Bioware fan.

[rainasa]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Tiax and Bluumberry just summed up the main opinion of all the people in the thread who have nothing better to do than be arrogant, narrow-minded individuals who won't even listen.

To the mentioned above: Not directed at the two of you specifically, just stating the issue with the thread using your comments.

The problem is listening. You listen to EA reps and Bioware cummunity reps too much. You believe everything they say as golden god facts.

I don't believe this is an innocent "totally extra content"

You cannot convince me that this piece of gameplay does not belong in the main game for free or at least free with new purchases.

I have read, researced commented on this practice here for YEARS. Don't tell me I dont listen. I see your side. I just find it totaly wrong and dismissive of the issue.

And like I said, I wasn't indicating that it was necessarily the case with you.

And I don't listen to anyone without evidence.  I'm not trustworthy by nature, and everyone is always lying about something at somepoint.

But I know the background of the content very well, and have an excellant understanding of development process in various mediums, game development among them.  So I have the experience and evidence to back my claim, and Mike was about as honest as he could be currently.

However, I don't agree with the handling of the situation.  Either it should have been exclusive to the CE for some time, or handled like the Cerberus Network.  Preferably, and this is just my personal opinion, Javik should have been completely dropped instead of reallocating him in the redrafts.

It's not the defending the DLC, I'm just making it very clear what the situation is so that people aren't spreading misinformation.

I really have to agree with this, after reading the script,  i can say that Javik was removed for good reasons and they should have known after witnessing the wretched hive of scum and villainy that is bsn for years that releasing day one dlc (and announcing it so late for that matter) would only end in tears.

Modifié par rainasa, 23 février 2012 - 10:44 .

[Niemack Saarinen]

Kithrus wrote...

You all bee indoctrinated.... Day One DLC is a Crime .

Sue them, take it to court.  Get up off your chair and go out and start the process of bringing litgation against Bioware\\EA.


What? oh yeah. it isnt a crime, its within their rights.

[nightcobra]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...
No because people don't want to have to pay extra for things that could have been easily included with the game in the first place. Some just don't think it's fair that some people get more game than others.

It's not fair for people who pay for more game to get more game?

no, it isn't because that's not what a collector's edition should be in the first place
the extra cost is for collectibles, the in-game content makes it seem more enticing when it really would be better if they repeated the same thing they did with ME2 and have free day one DLC for every new copy and you get the collectibles and the free day one DLC as well benifiting every consumer who buys new.

I can recall games lots of game that actually give in-game exclusive item solo/mp. In some case the only way to get it was CE only. Stop crying it's not like it was a new pratice. 

items like armor/weapons/skins are on an entirely different level than story content, for starters one requires a lot more coding to develop, the other is damned easy to make as many modders can tell you.

[MissOuJ]

fropas wrote...

The CE is not complete. Even though I preordered from Gamestop I miss out on a shotgun I'd love to have, and I'm sure new DLC will com out which I'll have to purchase. But yes their is a SE of the game and in that edition you can complete the ME trilogy by beating the reapers, but you don't get any of the additional content. If you bought the SE and you want the "extra" content then you should pay for it (like I did) but I see no reason why SE consumers should get extra features.

I have to disagree there. I think it's only fair to give SE byers the possibility to get (at least some of) the extra features, because special editions are usually on sale a limited time/there's a limited amount of them/it's impossible to order them where they live etc. So giving people the opportunity to download them for a small fee is pretty fair in my opinnion.

But getting that stuff for free? After they've advertised CE will include extra squad mate + mission? Not fair for those of us who pay extra.

[fropas]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...
No because people don't want to have to pay extra for things that could have been easily included with the game in the first place. Some just don't think it's fair that some people get more game than others.

It's not fair for people who pay for more game to get more game?

I dont care how much more "STUFF" Collectors Editions get...

I just don't want them to get more "GAME"

My SE will not feel complete. It doesn't matter what anybody else says otherwise. 

$70            =/= complete game
$70 + $10    =  complete game
$90 CE        =  complete game

its just not right. Its dirty, Its dispicable and quite frankly obvoius.

Once again more DLC is likely on the way so even CE consumers won't get the complete game for >80$. I'm sorry you feel your game won't be complete but you can still "complete" the ME trilogy by beating the reapers.

[Niemack Saarinen]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Niemack Saarinen wrote...

Kithrus wrote...

You all bee indoctrinated.... Day One DLC is a Crime .

Sue them, take it to court.  Get up off your chair and go out and start the process of bringing litgation against BiowareEA.


What? oh yeah. it isnt a crime, its within their rights.

This is a crime however.

OBJECTION!

[joe1852]

i'm just waiting for them to release screenshots of it but i must say i am enjoying the complaining

[TheStoner]

Draconis6666 wrote...

Lufven1 wrote...

I'm much more interested in what is NOT said in public actually. You shouldn't believe everything said on the internet, especially on Twitter.

Part of the point is that for an actual debate to take place its now the responsibility of the people who believe the statement Bioware has made to provide proof that these things are not the case. In most cases they fail to do so and just reply wiht "your lying i dont believe you durr" which is not a logical form of debate and doesnt help their case.

Unless you have proof that what bioware claims about the development cycle is false you have only conjecture to base your OPINION around. You do not however base arguments on Opinion and expect them to hold much weight, if you do you are foolish because if arguments are based on Opinion they are pointless from the beginning because everyone is immediately wrong and immediately right.

I do. Bioware said 'The content in “From Ashes” was developed by a separate team (after the core game was finished)
The demo (which according to Bioware was based on a old build at the time of release) contained files for the prothean. Hence the prothean began development before the final build was made. Pleased? I mean it's not proof that they lied about the other stuff but it is proof that they are willing to provide misinfomation. Unless I made a mistake:blush:

[Draconis6666]

Varen Spectre wrote...

Interesting post. I liked it, even though I may not agree with it completely...

Based on that, I suppose that the general ratio behind "stopping" or "reducing" the DLC system maybe, like you said, even at the expense of increasing the price of the base unit is, that it would make the tracking of evolution of prices and decision making about buying or not buying games easier for consumers again.

I mean, when a base unit / game would cost for example 60 $ and suddenly the cost of the sequel would go up to 80 $, it would be easier for a consumer to decide, whether the offer would still be fair for him / her or not. Now with plenty of separate DLCs, some smaller, some bigger, maybe some completely minor, but all for different prices, it is much harder to keep the track of them all and to asses whether and which are "worthy" and which are "unnecessarily expensive" and the consumers are much more inclined to make decisions - i.e. buy some DLCs, which they would regret in future. Or at least they are more affraid of that.

I guess, that's also another reason, in addition to the fact, that they were released way after the original game so that it seemed like developers have spent all their time before the realease of vanila game on it, why expansion packs weren't perceived so negatively IMO. Because it was easier to examine a single larger product and make a single decision.

Not saying that I agree with that completely or that more choices is a bad thing, but I would probably still prefer it that way as well.

And one little remark, IMO the individual perceptions of whether some company is "greedier" than it "should be" aren't and shouldn't be based on the condition of entire gaming industry, as IMO some of your posts imply, but on the condition of company or sometimes even part of it itself. And given how it seems, that numbers of preorders for Mass Effect 3 already doubled the numbers for Mass Effect 2 and grow faster week by week, it's probably not so hard to see Bioware's DLC policy as... little bit... excessive. At least in comparison to some other companies.

To a point, but expecting companies to limit their profit potential because they "dont need it" is foolish, expecialy of a publcly traded corporation that's primary responsibilty is to increase the value of its shareholder's shares. Can they only make for example $10 million and make a profit if they spent $9 sure, but why would they do that if they see potential to instead make $15 million. They would actualy be doing a dis service to their shareholders by doing so, the shareholders who are their primary concern.

In reality if your going to bring Greed into the equation it is not the corporations who are greedy, it is their shareholders who demand that they make more money so that their shares are worth more.

The issue about having all the different DLC choices being more confusing to consumers might be true but the blame in that department is not completely on EA, it is not their fault that they have offered consumers more choice and that many of those consumers cannot make intelligent choices in spending money on those choices. It is the consumer's responsibility to research something he wishes to buy until he is either satisfied that it is worth his money or decides that it is not. It is not completely EA's fault if someone does not take the time to do so and "Wastes" their money on DLC that they dont want, though they may well be a factor of the fault in terms of marketing presure and such the ultimate responsibility is still in the hands of the person who choses to spend the money.

[fropas]

MissOuJ wrote...

fropas wrote...

The CE is not complete. Even though I preordered from Gamestop I miss out on a shotgun I'd love to have, and I'm sure new DLC will com out which I'll have to purchase. But yes their is a SE of the game and in that edition you can complete the ME trilogy by beating the reapers, but you don't get any of the additional content. If you bought the SE and you want the "extra" content then you should pay for it (like I did) but I see no reason why SE consumers should get extra features.

I have to disagree there. I think it's only fair to give SE byers the possibility to get (at least some of) the extra features, because special editions are usually on sale a limited time/there's a limited amount of them/it's impossible to order them where they live etc. So giving people the opportunity to download them for a small fee is pretty fair in my opinnion.

But getting that stuff for free? After they've advertised CE will include extra squad mate + mission? Not fair for those of us who pay extra.

Ah yes, I totally agree with this. SE should have the option to buy all the in game content it wants, but no one should get extra features (promised to CE consumers) for free, simply because they bought the game new. 

[Hardwired]

Goth Skunk wrote...

Hardwired wrote...

Thats too bad, but it doesn't give you an all access pass to treat people like crap. If you can't stand the opinions of other, however diffrent from your they may be, then I don't really see why you even attemp to take part in a discussion.

Nor do people have all-access passes to hurl the libelous claims and harassing things they've been hurling at EA or BioWare, but that seems to be the topique du jour.

There are two sides to every argument, and I am meeting the wrong side with equal or stronger venom than they've been. But this is the internet, and even when proven wrong time and time again, entitlists will still cling to their flawed viewpoints. They must all be met with vitriol and be told to grow up.

All your "stronger venom" translates into is less that civil behavior and insults. And in truth it only showcases where your emotional development is at this point in time.

I have been watching this thread develop on and off this whole day, and thus far I have seen interesting standpoints from both sides of the debate.
This particular debate, in my opinion, has no real right or wrong answer. I know a ton of people will disagree with me on that but thats my opinion on the matter either way. I'd say it's closer to a debate concerning ethics, presentation and timing.
While not the best discussion I have ever seen, it has certain remained more civil than most (save for a few lost people).

Now I know you're probably gonna reply to this with another post filled with you particular brand of "stronger venom". But it would only further prove my point of your general level of character.

[Goth Skunk]

Kithrus wrote...

You all been indoctrinated.... Day One DLC is a Crime doesn't matter whats in it. It should be free or in the game. I paid them for that development time in the price of the game they are double dipping into my wallet.

This is why I'm not buying the game.

Because we don't agree with you, we've been indoctrinated.

Do you want me to get you your blanket, crybaby?

[Evilelf007]

Sure, you can disagree all you want with Bioware's methods, but don't expect any sympathy, and don't expect people to agree with you either.

In the end, you voicing your disagreement sounds like nothing more than whining to most everyone else.

[Atakuma]

MissOuJ wrote...

fropas wrote...

The CE is not complete. Even though I preordered from Gamestop I miss out on a shotgun I'd love to have, and I'm sure new DLC will com out which I'll have to purchase. But yes their is a SE of the game and in that edition you can complete the ME trilogy by beating the reapers, but you don't get any of the additional content. If you bought the SE and you want the "extra" content then you should pay for it (like I did) but I see no reason why SE consumers should get extra features.

I have to disagree there. I think it's only fair to give SE byers the possibility to get (at least some of) the extra features, because special editions are usually on sale a limited time/there's a limited amount of them/it's impossible to order them where they live etc. So giving people the opportunity to download them for a small fee is pretty fair in my opinnion.

But getting that stuff for free? After they've advertised CE will include extra squad mate + mission? Not fair for those of us who pay extra.

Bioware considers the squadmate something you get for free with the CE, They have said this many times, so according to Bioware you aren't actually paying for the Squadmate.

[rainasa]

TheStoner wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

Lufven1 wrote...

I'm much more interested in what is NOT said in public actually. You shouldn't believe everything said on the internet, especially on Twitter.

Part of the point is that for an actual debate to take place its now the responsibility of the people who believe the statement Bioware has made to provide proof that these things are not the case. In most cases they fail to do so and just reply wiht "your lying i dont believe you durr" which is not a logical form of debate and doesnt help their case.

Unless you have proof that what bioware claims about the development cycle is false you have only conjecture to base your OPINION around. You do not however base arguments on Opinion and expect them to hold much weight, if you do you are foolish because if arguments are based on Opinion they are pointless from the beginning because everyone is immediately wrong and immediately right.

I do. Bioware said 'The content in “From Ashes” was developed by a separate team (after the core game was finished)
The demo (which according to Bioware was based on a old build at the time of release) contained files for the prothean. Hence the prothean began development before the final build was made. Pleased? I mean it's not proof that they lied about the other stuff but it is proof that they are willing to provide misinfomation. Unless I made a mistake:blush:

it contained the VO for the prothean, and VO work is always done months before coding even begins (usally right after the script is finalized) they didnt start working on the ACTUAL dlc until ME3 was in the process of being certified.

[Tiax Rules All]

CE = Complete Edition
SE = Substandard Edition

There is no "crime" here. Just a very slippery road to the end of video gaming as we know it.
Episodic content, pay as you go, dlc as requirements. Its all in store for the future of gaming.

[Atakuma]

Evilelf007 wrote...

Sure, you can disagree all you want with Bioware's methods, but don't expect any sympathy, and don't expect people to agree with you either.

In the end, you voicing your disagreement sounds like nothing more than whining to most everyone else.

How about you speak for youself instead of acting like you speak for "most everyone else".

[ArkkAngel007]

rainasa wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

And like I said, I wasn't indicating that it was necessarily the case with you.

And I don't listen to anyone without evidence.  I'm not trustworthy by nature, and everyone is always lying about something at somepoint.

But I know the background of the content very well, and have an excellant understanding of development process in various mediums, game development among them.  So I have the experience and evidence to back my claim, and Mike was about as honest as he could be currently.

However, I don't agree with the handling of the situation.  Either it should have been exclusive to the CE for some time, or handled like the Cerberus Network.  Preferably, and this is just my personal opinion, Javik should have been completely dropped instead of reallocating him in the redrafts.

It's not the defending the DLC, I'm just making it very clear what the situation is so that people aren't spreading misinformation.

I really have to agree with this, after reading the script,  i can say that Javik was removed for good reasons and they should have known after witnessing the wretched hive of scum and villainy that is bsn for years that releasing day one dlc (and announcing it so late for that matter) would only end in tears.

I understand why they are doing it this way, but then again, it should have been obvious of what the reaction would be.  This isn't something that can be demonstrated off like the multiplayer was, nor is it something they can turn around and say that everyone get free, because that would hurt those who bought the CE.  What's happened is that BioWare and EA have cornered themselves in a situation that they can really "fix" if they chose to.

[fropas]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

CE = Complete Edition
SE = Substandard Edition

There is no "crime" here. Just a very slippery road to the end of video gaming as we know it.
Episodic content, pay as you go, dlc as requirements. Its all in store for the future of gaming.

LOL perhaps we'll all have to lower our standards in the future, for now all we can do is speculate

[RiouHotaru]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...
No because people don't want to have to pay extra for things that could have been easily included with the game in the first place. Some just don't think it's fair that some people get more game than others.

It's not fair for people who pay for more game to get more game?

No it's not, because there shouldn't be more game to pay for.

So there should NEVER be DLC or expansions?  Because that's technically "more game"

Why do people insist on trying to muddy the waters here. Expansions are different from "day 1 DLC" stop trying to perpetuate a doublespeak comment that was born out of the mouth of salesmen trying to get you to pay for thier products.

"Expansions" aren't that different.  They're simply multiple packets of DLC sound as bundle, usually winding up being well over half the cost of the retail game (Sword of the Coast was 40 bucks).  Don't think even for a second there's an abyss of difference between the two.  DLC is just expansions sold in smaller bundles, because they're cheaper to make, cheaper to sell, and easier to produce.