13369 réponses à ce sujet

[StElmo]

Kithrus wrote...

You all been indoctrinated.... Day One DLC is a Crime doesn't matter whats in it. It should be free or in the game. I paid them for that development time in the price of the game they are double dipping into my wallet.

This is why I'm not buying the game.

Exactly. If anyone thinks day one DLC is an acceptable message to send to the consumer they have been conned by excellent corporate marketing tactics.

Bethesda and Skyrim did an excellent job, they showed everyone that day one DLC is not very important and they respect their customers with at least focusing on the main game for a long period of time.

Bioware has done the complete opposite by essentially telling consumers, wether they meant to or not "this game will not satiate you for long that is why day one DLC is being sold by us to milk you before you realize that it's not worth your money". Wether that is true or not is irrelevant the message to the consumer is a bad thing to send.

[fropas]

Kithrus wrote...

You all been indoctrinated.... Day One DLC is a Crime doesn't matter whats in it. It should be free or in the game. I paid them for that development time in the price of the game they are double dipping into my wallet.

This is why I'm not buying the game.

BW is our salvation through destruction!

[TheStoner]

Draconis6666 wrote...

TheStoner wrote...

I would like to point out that saying that the dlc shouldn't cost extra isn't the same as saying it should be free. It is saying that the cost should be covered under the cost of the game. That's the problem with the concept of day 1 dlc. They are effectivly sectioning off part of the pre-launch devolopment time and charging for it.

But thats only very marginay true, they are charging you for minor work done on voice overs and organization done during pre-launch development. The rest of the game is developed during Post-Certification during which there is NO development on the game itself so Pre-launch Development has ended, that is what you are paying for and its something I still fail to see how people can continue to claim other than simple lack of understanding of the fact that games stop being DEVELOPED a month or more before they ever release.

The thing is certification really isn't a point where you must stop working on the game. That's what patching is for and it's also essentially what Shale and Zaeed were: Glorified patches.

[Kithrus]

Goth Skunk wrote...

Kithrus wrote...

You all been indoctrinated.... Day One DLC is a Crime doesn't matter whats in it. It should be free or in the game. I paid them for that development time in the price of the game they are double dipping into my wallet.

This is why I'm not buying the game.

Because we don't agree with you, we've been indoctrinated.

Do you want me to get you your blanket, crybaby?

Heh Hardly. It was more a joke themed to the game we were talking about but w/e.

[Omilophile]

Really people? You're angry that you have to pay for something in this world? *gasp* It was originally only supposed to be for people who bought the Collector's Edition (to reward them for being uber fans), so you never would've gotten it to begin with. If I were you, I'd count my blessings and say,"Well, at least I have the option if I want it."

You don't have to buy it, but Bioware wanted to throw a bone to those who DIDN'T get the CE as well. Part of the problem with this world is that people think they are entitled to everything without having to give anything up in exchange. Get over yourselves.

Modifié par Omilophile, 23 février 2012 - 10:54 .

[Massefeckt]

Goth Skunk wrote...


Welcome to real life. Hope you were given fair warning in advance.

You weren't? Oh dear... better hang on tight then!

Translation - Baaa Baaa Baaa Baaaaa

Modifié par Massefeckt, 23 février 2012 - 10:52 .

[RiouHotaru]

Balvale wrote...

I have been thinking about whether or not I want to purchase this game. I don't have the full details on the DLC so I don't know how integral it is to the Mass Effect universe. At the same time, I don't like the idea of having the money squeezed out of me. I don't want to buy the collectors edition for 20 dollars more just to get the DLC. I also can't see myself paying 10 dollars for a squad mate that could have been in the game at launch. I feel that DLC should make me come back to a game. Something purely after release that enriches the experience and encourages me to come back and play more.

The car without a steering wheel is an incorrect analogy. The game stands on its own without the DLC. But DLC like this sets a bad precedent. What if the Bioware team put resources into creating a different story ending that came as a paid DLC and was available at launch? The core game is still there. The story has an ending without the DLC. However, I couldn't help but feel ripped off. A large story element would be denied to me. The same could be said about paragon and renegade options. "Lets give your Sheppard the opportunity to react in a new way, a unique deviation from the standard hero or jerk options." If they had that developed and ready for launch but sold it as a DLC, I'd be pissed because I'd feel my Sheppard couldn't express himself to the full extent the game provides. I'd feel better if it came further down the road, of course. It would get me to play again.

As it stands, I'm leaning heavily towards not buying on day one and just buying the game used. I don't like the way this DLC is being handled and I don't want to support it. That pains me because I am, despite my feelings on this matter, a Bioware fan.

Why do people insist that companies would "abuse" DLC by making core elements into DLC when there's NO track record for that so far?  Especially not by Bioware.

[Ianamus]

Evilelf007 wrote...

Sure, you can disagree all you want with Bioware's methods, but don't expect any sympathy, and don't expect people to agree with you either.

In the end, you voicing your disagreement sounds like nothing more than whining to most everyone else.

Except that on this thread alone there are many, many people who agree with those complaining. In fact, I'd say that they might even outnumber those who are happy with this. 

Modifié par EJ107, 23 février 2012 - 10:53 .

[Draconis6666]

TheStoner wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

Lufven1 wrote...

I'm much more interested in what is NOT said in public actually. You shouldn't believe everything said on the internet, especially on Twitter.

Part of the point is that for an actual debate to take place its now the responsibility of the people who believe the statement Bioware has made to provide proof that these things are not the case. In most cases they fail to do so and just reply wiht "your lying i dont believe you durr" which is not a logical form of debate and doesnt help their case.

Unless you have proof that what bioware claims about the development cycle is false you have only conjecture to base your OPINION around. You do not however base arguments on Opinion and expect them to hold much weight, if you do you are foolish because if arguments are based on Opinion they are pointless from the beginning because everyone is immediately wrong and immediately right.

I do. Bioware said 'The content in “From Ashes” was developed by a separate team (after the core game was finished)
The demo (which according to Bioware was based on a old build at the time of release) contained files for the prothean. Hence the prothean began development before the final build was made. Pleased? I mean it's not proof that they lied about the other stuff but it is proof that they are willing to provide misinfomation. Unless I made a mistake:blush:

The prothean was planned during the leak yes, the files that are present in the demo are voice files that are likely from early stages of production before he was cut from the core game or that were developed alongside the main game to save development costs. That does not mean that the CONTENT of the DLC was developed at that point, only that a few Voice files existed. You are not paying them for just the voice files when you buy the DLC you are paying for the mission the character model and its animations etc. Which there is no evidence was developed prior to when they say it was. (the model and basic annimations perhaps since it was used in one of the trailers, but that doesnt really mean anything either lots of things go into trailers that are never even in the game) I

So yes you can argue they should not charge you for the voice files, or maybe a static model and few frames of animation that might be in the actual game build if you really want to, but I doubt that its enough of the core content of the DLC to be grounds to demand the entire thing be free

[Kroepoek]

[ForceXev]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Just to ask, why do people who demand this for free call Bioware greedy?

Because $60 is already a lot of money for a video game, and they are trying to dig even deeper into our wallets to get us to pay $70 or $80 for a game.

This is why Day 1 DLC is especially gnarly.  For a lot of people, especially these days, paying $60 just for some home entertainment is a lot.  Then to find out that $60 doesn't even get you all of the content of the game... that's damned harsh.

[Goth Skunk]

Hardwired wrote...

All your "stronger venom" translates into is less that civil behavior and insults. And in truth it only showcases where your emotional development is at this point in time.

I have been watching this thread develop on and off this whole day, and thus far I have seen interesting standpoints from both sides of the debate.
This particular debate, in my opinion, has no real right or wrong answer. I know a ton of people will disagree with me on that but thats my opinion on the matter either way. I'd say it's closer to a debate concerning ethics, presentation and timing.
While not the best discussion I have ever seen, it has certain remained more civil than most (save for a few lost people).

Now I know you're probably gonna reply to this with another post filled with you particular brand of "stronger venom". But it would only further prove my point of your general level of character.

Well, that's your opinion. It's wrong, but it's yours.

There is no mediator, no arbitor here. That much is clear. No moderators have stepped in and suspended accounts, the thread has not been locked down. Bioware is allowing the unworthy to hurl their insults and get what they want to rant about off their chest. They are also allowing people like me to put aforementioned ingrates in their place. They are observing the results of the decision to release this Day 1 DLC in this manner, and will likely take the results here, along with the sales tallies, into consideration for future titles. Either that or they don't openly wish to comment.

Whatever the case, the decision is made. The right side is getting what they want, and everyone else will have to deal with it. Cancel their pre-orders if need be, but in the end, their voices ring hollow.

[Evilelf007]

I'm not speaking for everyone else, I'm speculating based on overall acceptance in the practice that Bioware is following through with.

Other than a vocal minority, nobody has a problem with this.

[Liara T]

You should probably watch this video by TotalBiscuit "Why I think Bioware has gone too far with Mass Effect 3" 

 

[The Narf]

.^.

Modifié par The Narf, 23 février 2012 - 10:53 .

[Hardwired]

Fix1o0 wrote...

It's been posted a few times already mate. :happy:

[N7Infernox]

Omilophile wrote...

Really people? You're angry that you have to pay for something in this world? *gasp* It was originally only supposed to be for people who bought the Collector's Edition, so you never would've gotten it to begin with. If I were you, I'd count my blessings and say,"Well, at least I have the option if I want it."

You don't have to buy it, but Bioware wanted to throw a bone to those who DIDN'T get the CE. Part of the problem with this world is that people think they are entitled to everything without having to give anything up in exchange. Get over yourselves.

Facepalm
Go look at the CE listing on the official page, or even one of the old ones. NEVER does it say that the character/mission dlc was exclusive to the CE. In fact, it was the only thing that wasn't exclusive.

[AlanC9]

Atakuma wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...
.Some just don't think it's fair that some people get more game than others.

It's not fair for people who pay for more game to get more game?

No it's not, because there shouldn't be more game to pay for.

OK, a straight-up socialist argument. Good luck with that.

[MissOuJ]

Atakuma wrote...

Bioware considers the squadmate something you get for free with the CE, They have said this many times, so according to Bioware you aren't actually paying for the Squadmate.

Well, according to me, I'm paying €90 for the CE. That's almost 1/4th of my monthly rent. If I bought SE, that'd be €70. That plus From Ashes DLC would be about €80.

I don't know about you, but none of those numbers spell "free" to me.

[Kroepoek]

Hardwired wrote...

Fix1o0 wrote...

It's been posted a few times already mate. :happy:

ORLY MATE

[Ianamus]

Goth Skunk wrote...

Hardwired wrote...

All your "stronger venom" translates into is less that civil behavior and insults. And in truth it only showcases where your emotional development is at this point in time.

I have been watching this thread develop on and off this whole day, and thus far I have seen interesting standpoints from both sides of the debate.
This particular debate, in my opinion, has no real right or wrong answer. I know a ton of people will disagree with me on that but thats my opinion on the matter either way. I'd say it's closer to a debate concerning ethics, presentation and timing.
While not the best discussion I have ever seen, it has certain remained more civil than most (save for a few lost people).

Now I know you're probably gonna reply to this with another post filled with you particular brand of "stronger venom". But it would only further prove my point of your general level of character.

Well, that's your opinion. It's wrong, but it's yours.

Stop calling other peoples opinions wrong. It makes you look like a pathetic man-child who can't stand the fact that people disagree with you. 

[Hardwired]

Goth Skunk wrote...

Hardwired wrote...

All your "stronger venom" translates into is less that civil behavior and insults. And in truth it only showcases where your emotional development is at this point in time.

I have been watching this thread develop on and off this whole day, and thus far I have seen interesting standpoints from both sides of the debate.
This particular debate, in my opinion, has no real right or wrong answer. I know a ton of people will disagree with me on that but thats my opinion on the matter either way. I'd say it's closer to a debate concerning ethics, presentation and timing.
While not the best discussion I have ever seen, it has certain remained more civil than most (save for a few lost people).

Now I know you're probably gonna reply to this with another post filled with you particular brand of "stronger venom". But it would only further prove my point of your general level of character.

Well, that's your opinion. It's wrong, but it's yours.

There is no mediator, no arbitor here. That much is clear. No moderators have stepped in and suspended accounts, the thread has not been locked down. Bioware is allowing the unworthy to hurl their insults and get what they want to rant about off their chest. They are also allowing people like me to put aforementioned ingrates in their place. They are observing the results of the decision to release this Day 1 DLC in this manner, and will likely take the results here, along with the sales tallies, into consideration for future titles. Either that or they don't openly wish to comment.

Whatever the case, the decision is made. The right side is getting what they want, and everyone else will have to deal with it. Cancel their pre-orders if need be, but in the end, their voices ring hollow.

Case and point.

[The Narf]

Hardwired wrote...

Fix1o0 wrote...

It's been posted a few times already mate. :happy:

Can't be posted too much on the other hand.

[Draconis6666]

TheStoner wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

TheStoner wrote...

I would like to point out that saying that the dlc shouldn't cost extra isn't the same as saying it should be free. It is saying that the cost should be covered under the cost of the game. That's the problem with the concept of day 1 dlc. They are effectivly sectioning off part of the pre-launch devolopment time and charging for it.

But thats only very marginay true, they are charging you for minor work done on voice overs and organization done during pre-launch development. The rest of the game is developed during Post-Certification during which there is NO development on the game itself so Pre-launch Development has ended, that is what you are paying for and its something I still fail to see how people can continue to claim other than simple lack of understanding of the fact that games stop being DEVELOPED a month or more before they ever release.

The thing is certification really isn't a point where you must stop working on the game. That's what patching is for and it's also essentially what Shale and Zaeed were: Glorified patches.

No but theres also no requirement that you do work on it and just because you do does not make it part of the game that they are offering you Companies are not obligated to patch anything at all, or offer you anything beyond what they complete at time of Certification If they do so nor not is at their discretion and it is in many ways very dis-respectful to believe that they must do this and  must provide this content to you simply because they chose to work on it during that period.

[Atakuma]

AlanC9 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...
.Some just don't think it's fair that some people get more game than others.

It's not fair for people who pay for more game to get more game?

No it's not, because there shouldn't be more game to pay for.

OK, a straight-up socialist argument. Good luck with that.

Since you clearly have nothing to say you'd be better off not saying anything.