13369 réponses à ce sujet

[JamesShepard777]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Lufven1 wrote...

I said "imagine removing Thane". I know you have to get certain character for the main story but does he adds anything to the main plot? He's just a side character with his own misson and dialogue. Removing him would not change the main story, it would just continue without him. Prothy™ is like most of the non-essential-to-the-plot-character in that removing him would not change a bit but adding him enhances the story.

But Thane also contributes to the Suicide Mission, and to the Holding the Line Segment.  You can succeed without Zaeed and Kasumi, since they're additional.  Thane's removal WOULD negatively impact your success because he's a core character.

The Prothean is NOT a core character.  His presence (or lack thereof) doesn't change the core experience.

No, Thane is not a core character. Did you not even read where I pointed this out before? The only characters that are required in order to progress to the end of Mass Effect 2 are: Miranda, Jacob, Mordin, Garrus, and Jack. That's it. Grunt doesn't have to be woken up, Legion doesn't have to be reactivated, Thane, Samara, and Tali don't HAVE to be picked up. You'll probably fail the suicide mission, but you can still "complete the game" with a minimum number of characters.

The Prothean has as much dialogue and importance (or should have, anyway) as any squadmate. He is not Zaeed 2.0 and therein lies the problem. Even if he were a Batarian or a Vorcha or a ****ing Raloi I would still be arguing that it shouldn't have been specifically designed as DLC.

[TheStoner]

Draconis6666 wrote...

TheStoner wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

TheStoner wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

Lufven1 wrote...

I'm much more interested in what is NOT said in public actually. You shouldn't believe everything said on the internet, especially on Twitter.

Part of the point is that for an actual debate to take place its now the responsibility of the people who believe the statement Bioware has made to provide proof that these things are not the case. In most cases they fail to do so and just reply wiht "your lying i dont believe you durr" which is not a logical form of debate and doesnt help their case.

Unless you have proof that what bioware claims about the development cycle is false you have only conjecture to base your OPINION around. You do not however base arguments on Opinion and expect them to hold much weight, if you do you are foolish because if arguments are based on Opinion they are pointless from the beginning because everyone is immediately wrong and immediately right.

I do. Bioware said 'The content in “From Ashes” was developed by a separate team (after the core game was finished)
The demo (which according to Bioware was based on a old build at the time of release) contained files for the prothean. Hence the prothean began development before the final build was made. Pleased? I mean it's not proof that they lied about the other stuff but it is proof that they are willing to provide misinfomation. Unless I made a mistake:blush:

The prothean was planned during the leak yes, the files that are present in the demo are voice files that are likely from early stages of production before he was cut from the core game or that were developed alongside the main game to save development costs. That does not mean that the CONTENT of the DLC was developed at that point, only that a few Voice files existed. You are not paying them for just the voice files when you buy the DLC you are paying for the mission the character model and its animations etc. Which there is no evidence was developed prior to when they say it was. (the model and basic annimations perhaps since it was used in one of the trailers, but that doesnt really mean anything either lots of things go into trailers that are never even in the game) I

So yes you can argue they should not charge you for the voice files, or maybe a static model and few frames of animation that might be in the actual game build if you really want to, but I doubt that its enough of the core content of the DLC to be grounds to demand the entire thing be free

You assume alot. You asked for proof of lies I gave you proof of a lie. They say it was devolped after certification. We know that at least a bit of it wasn't.

You are correct based on what we know there is at least some amount of falsehood, in the statement that the DLC was developed after development. My point is that that evidence is not enough to support a claim that the entire DLC should be given to you for free because of this, you have proof that what they have said is not 100% true you do not have proof that it is a total lie and that enough of the DLC was developed during production that you should be entitlted to have it along with the main game.

Your right I don't have proof that it was a total lie but I do have reason to believe that they arn't being completely honest.

[Yuoaman]

Fix1o0 wrote...
Except TB's opinion has more weight than any of you silly day 1 dlc swallowers.

It does not.

[Goth Skunk]

DJBare wrote...

Goth Skunk wrote...

Do you want me to get you your blanket, crybaby?

This coming from both sides is really what ruins a good debate, I keep getting reminded of my days in the school play ground.

This debate has been pointless from the first page. Cheapskates want something for free, something that legitimate people paid a premium price to get. Debate over. Cheapskates are wrong, legitimate people are right.

[Rip504]

Fix1o0 wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

What a joke. LoL
Go ahead and cancel your CE pre-order and watch it sell within the hour.

This day 1 dlc will effect nothing. Complaints will not change it now,or next time.
I hope this isn't the only day 1 dlc personally. As I already have the CE and would like to spend some money on day 1 dlc. Where it at Bioware?

OOOOo New model ships for my cabin! Bought!
Oil for my robo-dog,Bought.
A comic,bought.
lol

You must be 14.

You must not know how to look at my profile and find out.
The Internet,wow how difficult!
Bought!

[RiouHotaru]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Why do people insist that companies would "abuse" DLC by making core elements into DLC when there's NO track record for that so far?  Especially not by Bioware.

I prefer to nip it in the bud and prevent practices like this from happening before they ruin "Next Bioware game" for us all

Then I think you're being twitchy and jumping the gun.  Because again, there's been NO, I repeat, NO track record or precedent for "DLC abuse" with Bioware.

Claiming that you're being preemptive when there's nothing to warrant suspicion in the first place makes you look...well, twitchy as hell.

[fropas]

Rip504 wrote...

Azure33 wrote...

This is just the tip of the iceberg as well. Expect to see things like this as you are aggressively marketed at:

Joker: "I have discoverd your old ground Vehicle Shepard. You need to come quickly and drive it into the geth infestation."

Shepard: "Ok I'm on it"

Joker: "To experience this mission please purchase "Shepards Geth Race" on X Box live for only 1100 points!"

Bought!

LOL the ironic thing is that this makes me want to buy DLC even more.  The idea of Seth Green selling me DLC on xbox live is like the icing on the imaginary cake.

[Kroepoek]

Nohvarr wrote...

Fix1o0 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Fix1o0 wrote...

Imperium Alpha wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

Liara T wrote...

You should probably watch this video by TotalBiscuit "Why I think Bioware has gone too far with Mass Effect 3" 

 

400,000 people have


5% chose to comment on their feelings.


video proves nothing.

400,000 people who have friends and their friends who have friends. This is more successful than EA's viral marketing.

My friend lol'd at this retarded TB this doesn't proove anything 

Your friend is not relevant.

Then TB is irrelevent.  Both are just opinions.  Nothing more or less.

Except TB's opinion has more weight than any of you silly day 1 dlc swallowers.

Well....that's just your opinion.

It's a fact. What, no arguments? Now it's just an opinion?

[Nohvarr]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

Liara T wrote...

You should probably watch this video by TotalBiscuit "Why I think Bioware has gone too far with Mass Effect 3" 

 

400,000 people have


5% chose to comment on their feelings.


video proves nothing.

400,000 people who have friends and their friends who have friends. This is more successful than EA's viral marketing.

Oh? Because a guy I've never heard of before today get's a bunch or people who may or may not have been planning to buy the game to post a positive on his page? I mean I've seen people on this forum say that they're ticked but still going to buy the game anyways. So yeah....I don't see this causing as much trouble for Bioware as your hoping.

That said, if you don't like it and feel it prevents you from purchasing it, go ahead. You'e not hurting me as I preordered the CE, and most of the people I plan to play MP with are not on this board.

Have you read the game news sites today?

Pretyt much the same reaction after the annoucnment of MP, Same-sex and every other controversial decision Bioware made during the games development. None of that derailed things, so I doubt this will either.

[Draconis6666]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

Liara T wrote...

You should probably watch this video by TotalBiscuit "Why I think Bioware has gone too far with Mass Effect 3" 

 

400,000 people have


5% chose to comment on their feelings.


video proves nothing.

400,000 people who have friends and their friends who have friends. This is more successful than EA's viral marketing.

Oh? Because a guy I've never heard of before today get's a bunch or people who may or may not have been planning to buy the game to post a positive on his page? I mean I've seen people on this forum say that they're ticked but still going to buy the game anyways. So yeah....I don't see this causing as much trouble for Bioware as your hoping.

That said, if you don't like it and feel it prevents you from purchasing it, go ahead. You'e not hurting me as I preordered the CE, and most of the people I plan to play MP with are not on this board.

Have you read the game news sites today?

Yep but the average video game consumer hasnt because they never read them at all

[Yuoaman]

Goth Skunk wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Goth Skunk wrote...

Do you want me to get you your blanket, crybaby?

This coming from both sides is really what ruins a good debate, I keep getting reminded of my days in the school play ground.

This debate has been pointless from the first page. Cheapskates want something for free, something that legitimate people paid a premium price to get. Debate over. Cheapskates are wrong, legitimate people are right.

I'm not a legitimate person because I want everyone to get the DLC which I'm already getting?

Why aren't you even trying to be reasonable?

[Solgineer]

Yuoaman wrote...

Fix1o0 wrote...
Except TB's opinion has more weight than any of you silly day 1 dlc swallowers.

It does not.

He's popular. He has fans. You don't.

[DiabolicallyRandom]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

DiabolicallyRandom wrote...

 Just to update everyone on the reddit discussions...
Here is her response to my previous post, which can be found several pages back:

Thank you for the thoughtful response. I wish I didn't have to worry about spoilers because I'd love to explain what clever things BioWare did to make the DLC a great addition without taking away from the main game.Believe it or not, I am more frustrated than you are, I think.

And here are several other responses to other questions with similar scopes:

I hope you understand that I'm in a position where to reassure you, it would require me to reveal story spoilers, something that I don't think is acceptable.Personally, I began my career as an archaeologist (for serious!) and the events surrounding this new character speak to me. However, if it wasn't DLC, it definitely wouldn't have been in the main game. There's other things that didn't fit in the main game that may end up as future DLC.Again, I think this is a cool edition and definitely intended as a reward for serious fans (many of whom have purchased the collector's edition so this isn't even an issue for them). However, I have played the game without it and the lore surrounding the DLC is in the game already, this character just gives their own take on it.Was that any less vague or helpful to anyone?

I don't have much insight into the financial or production decisions (nor is that something I'd like to have to be honest!) but I know that we put money into DLC in terms of staffing and creating the product. It's not free for us to make. Goodness, I'm being paid to interface with you guys and gather your feedback (which is a dream btw)! Again, I wish I could give you a rundown of what costs were incurred to make the DLC and why we feel the cost is justified, but I'm not in the position to do so. Hope you understand  

EDIT: look here for more context: http://www.reddit.co...ubtol?context=3

She speaks the truth about it content wise and how it fits in.  

But then again, she must be lying as much as I am if that's the case.

Even if I am not entirely convinced yet, I can still respect that she has taken the time to give thoughtful responses to tough questions - and not just respond with boilerplate, or, as is the case for the OP of this thread.. *cough*.... not really comment much at all. 
It is pretty telling to me of her character, that she not only responded to the original question posted, but 3 of my followup posts, all the while giving thoughtful, and respectful responses.

Hopfully, after she is done with reddit, she can come over here tomorrow and put in her two bits.

And even if I am more on the side of being unhappy about this - I hope everyone else here in the thread can cool their jets a bit, and try and keep things civil. It does appear it has degenerated to the point of alot of meaningless back and forth insults. It is a shame this forum doesnt have any kind of karma system like reddit :-\\

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Solgineer wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

You guys knew for the longest that the CE had the bonus char/mission... without any complaining.

Why complaints are happening now over this is a little strange. Sure there's no incentive to buy ME3 new (unless you want to play MP... and you have to be a Gold subscriber for that to even matter on the 360...), but isn't that a plus for the consumer to buy used instead (and use the difference to pay down the cost of the Day 1 DLC)?

Because it is a Prothean, one of the most mysterious, important and constantly mentioned races in the game. It's why Shepard is special even. If it were a Zaeed or Kasumi people wouldn't care as much as they do now.

So it's because the DLC chose a smart/compelling tie-in?  If he was important to the main story, he would've been in the actual game.  So by default, he's not that important... he's just a sort of celeb because of what his people did... and someone fans would be interested in.

Regardless, the only way Bioware will listen to your complaint is if you (and a bunch of others) don't buy the game/DLC and it creates a noteworthy dent in their sales.  You'd have to make them actively seek out ways to increase/restore their fan base.

Remember Valve and the Left 4 Dead 2 controversy?  Valve responded... not because of the ranting... but because of the amount of people that refused to buy the game. 

[Nohvarr]

Fix1o0 wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

Fix1o0 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Fix1o0 wrote...

Imperium Alpha wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

Liara T wrote...

You should probably watch this video by TotalBiscuit "Why I think Bioware has gone too far with Mass Effect 3" 

 

400,000 people have


5% chose to comment on their feelings.


video proves nothing.

400,000 people who have friends and their friends who have friends. This is more successful than EA's viral marketing.

My friend lol'd at this retarded TB this doesn't proove anything 

Your friend is not relevant.

Then TB is irrelevent.  Both are just opinions.  Nothing more or less.

Except TB's opinion has more weight than any of you silly day 1 dlc swallowers.

Well....that's just your opinion.

It's a fact. What, no arguments? Now it's just an opinion?

Do you have any proof that he carries more weight than others on this forum who don't agree with his assessment? Or are you spouting something you hope is true?

[nightcobra]

snip

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 23 février 2012 - 11:28 .

[Draconis6666]

TheStoner wrote...

Your right I don't have proof that it was a total lie but I do have reason to believe that they arn't being completely honest.

Precisely true but do you think that gives you the right as a consumer to demand they give you something for free? TV advertisements are not completely honest but you dont demand the products they are trying to sell you for free because of that. (this is a slightly bad analogy because you have in this case obviously paid for a product and are arguing that additional content should be included) but the fact of the matter is at this point you do not have enough evidence as a consumer to demand anything from them.

You can express your displeasure and chose not to buy the product but that does not mean that you should get what you want simply because you chose to do so. I am not saying this is what you are doing, but there are indeed people who feel this way and that is part of the problem. Legtimate concerns with the issue are mixed up with the complains of people who are simply greedy and want things for free.


As a better example 

Do i have the reasonable right as a consumer to demand that if I buy Star Wars a New Hope i get The empire strikes back and Return of the Jedi for free? their plots were designed during the creation of a New Hope and many of the props in those movies were created for the first movie. Is that grounds for claiming that I should get the additional content simply because I paid for the first that includes parts of it but not the entire thing?

Modifié par Draconis6666, 23 février 2012 - 11:27 .

[Ianamus]

Goth Skunk wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Goth Skunk wrote...

Do you want me to get you your blanket, crybaby?

This coming from both sides is really what ruins a good debate, I keep getting reminded of my days in the school play ground.

This debate has been pointless from the first page. Cheapskates want something for free, something that legitimate people paid a premium price to get. Debate over. Cheapskates are wrong, legitimate people are right.

Yes, we get it. You paid more than £100 for the collectors edition, so have the DLC already, and that makes you superior to everyone else. 

Honestly, get off your pompous high-horse about it. People aren't happy with this and they have every right to be unhappy about it. Spamming this thread with insults to show off how "big", "clever" and mean" you are, while probably inflating your ego, is adding nothing constructive to the conversation, and just makes you look like a dick. 

You may call everybody a whiny crybaby, but the fact that you need to come here to insult people makes me think that you are the one who really needs to grow up and get a life. 

Modifié par EJ107, 23 février 2012 - 11:28 .

[DJBare]

fropas wrote...
LOL the ironic thing is that this makes me want to buy DLC even more.  The idea of Seth Green selling me DLC on xbox live is like the icing on the imaginary cake.

Oh good grief no!, one of my nightmares would be Jack turning around and saying got an embarrasing problem? use Femrazor!, or worse still Shepard smiling, do you floss?

[Nohvarr]

Solgineer wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

Fix1o0 wrote...
Except TB's opinion has more weight than any of you silly day 1 dlc swallowers.

It does not.

He's popular. He has fans. You don't.

Mass Effect 3 is popular, it has more fans than he and I doubt the majority of them pay his program an attention.

[Kroepoek]

Nohvarr wrote...

Fix1o0 wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

Fix1o0 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Fix1o0 wrote...

Imperium Alpha wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

Liara T wrote...

You should probably watch this video by TotalBiscuit "Why I think Bioware has gone too far with Mass Effect 3" 

 

400,000 people have


5% chose to comment on their feelings.


video proves nothing.

400,000 people who have friends and their friends who have friends. This is more successful than EA's viral marketing.

My friend lol'd at this retarded TB this doesn't proove anything 

Your friend is not relevant.

Then TB is irrelevent.  Both are just opinions.  Nothing more or less.

Except TB's opinion has more weight than any of you silly day 1 dlc swallowers.

Well....that's just your opinion.

It's a fact. What, no arguments? Now it's just an opinion?

Do you have any proof that he carries more weight than others on this forum who don't agree with his assessment? Or are you spouting something you hope is true?

Go ahead and make a video where you explain what you think of it. I'd love to see you getting 400k viewers in 24hrs.

You wouldn't even hit 1000.

[rumbalumba]

Solgineer wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

Fix1o0 wrote...
Except TB's opinion has more weight than any of you silly day 1 dlc swallowers.

It does not.

He's popular. He has fans. You don't.

LMAO that was quite funny i LOL'd.

[Atakuma]

Circles, we are going in them.