13369 réponses à ce sujet

[ArkkAngel007]

Sofia Lamb wrote...

I do not wish to spoil anything about the Prothean, but him not being an important deus ex machina is intended, and explored.

Rather than in the original script where he basically was one.

[KBomb]

I don't know if it's funny or messed that some people see video games as a symbol of class or that they are somehow in the higher echelons of society because they bought the CE edition.

Modifié par KBomb, 24 février 2012 - 01:03 .

[Sanitys Shadow]

As far as I am concerned the entire controversy revolves around when the content was developed. It has been proven by scripts and data mining that the Prothean did indeed exist in some form, at some point in time, in the main game. At least some of its development took place before the game went to get certified and production started on From Ashes.

The other thing I noticed is how come no where on the ME3 Digital Deluxe Origin pre-order page does it mention that with this version you receiving a Prothean squad mate and an extra mission? I don't care at all for any of the cosmetic stuff, but if I am going to be getting more game, and more content with a version you think that would be listed under the section "A full collection of in game content:"

I can't help but feel like at least some of the DLC is content that was pulled from the original game and now being sold to me and called a premium.

I want to trust Bioware that all of the content did indeed happen post game production, but at the same time I don't want to be the person EA executives are laughing at saying "I told you they would buy the content that should have already been included in the game."

[tetrisblock4x1]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

So there are two kinds of people: those of us who believe that the squaddie DLC is cut from the game and has been on the disc for a large portion of the development cycle, and those who buy into their claim that this is just a last minute addition so there is no way that the character could have made it beofre going gold.

Well if the former is true then that means he is a fully realized character who could easily have a lot of plot importance and having to pay for that would clearly prove that Bioware are milking the audience, and nobody wants that. But on the other hand, if you believe the latter, this implies that Bioware have taken the games most interesting and important
character right next to the Reapers, and treated the character merely as side content who is a mere curiosity and not all that important to the plot. So we're either been milked or the character is not getting the full respect it deserves by been fully integrated into the games plot and frankly considering how huge the character is it shouldn't have been added into the game like just another squad mate. So either way we all lose.

He never made it onto the retail disc or into the main development cycle.  He was in concept still when the script he was relevent in was trashed and redrafted. 

But that's not for us to decide is if he is important or not, that's the writing team's job, who could have easily kept him written out, DLC or not.

Too late. We've had two whole games to build up the importance of Protheans, and obviouolsy since its DLC it won't be plot critical but you know what? This wouldn't be the first time that Bioware have kept important information as DLC. Like Liara becoming the Shadow Broker, and Loghains real motivation (Cailen was going to marry the quess of Ostagar, giving her some power over fereldan. He didn't like that, not onw bit) for doing what he did. I'm still mad about those, and if it turns out that this Prothean is equally as plot relevant as Loghains and Liaras DLCs? Well then they've lost my support.

[Wolf]

 CE owners-to-be, in my country at least, pay 90€ for the CE. SE's go for 70€. 

Nobody complained about this before, knowing full well this particular content came with the CE.

Some of us (those who pre-ordered the CE way back), did so knowing we would be spending more money on it, not just for the collectibles, for the extra content as well. We took a leap of faith, as it were, because we knew we would be satisfied with the product from the get-go.

People assume said squad-mate will be made available to all at some point.

Bioware reveals said content was a Prothean squad-mate, which then leads many people who did not pre-order
the CE to say it's unfair because (they claim) it was held back on purpose to "milk" their clients, considering non-
CE buyers have to pay an extra 10€/£/$ if they want the DLC.

A fair point, in my opinion, considering people should be concerned on how they spend their money.

Bioware states they did so to allow SE buyers to have this content be available to them just like those who pre-ordered the CE, considering this particular content was, at a time, exclusive to the Collector's Edition. As in nobody else would get it.

People claim they are lying and purposely held content back to make more money.


Now consider this, we CE buyers, are spending 20, in some places 30, more of whatever currency we have to deal with for this.

Consider also that this content is non-essential to the story in Mass Effect 3, and adds nothing (or removes in this case) of the story.

Take that as you will.
/rant

If someone replies, I am going to sleep and will check back tommorow.

Modifié par Gaiden96, 24 février 2012 - 01:05 .

[blindchaos]

Tobey2011 wrote...

I have a new business model to propose, I feel like EA/BioWare may like it. Why sell something like a SE or CE at all? People get way too much content for very little money!
Instead I recommend selling in short episodes that will be released every two month or so. This way we keep people playing and most importantly, sell little content for A LOT of money! Of course some sort of premium version of those little plot advancing episodes should exist. It's always nice to be able to overcharge for very little deviation from the usual product !

Sad to say this sort of model does exist.  Look up any of the telltale games, like Sam and Max or Tales of Monkey Island.  I can't tell if you are being entirely serious about this being a new model and if you weren't I apologize.

[Daithin]

Jakeratboy81 wrote...

I have to admit this, or yell this, or something.... Add my 2 cents to the echo chamber...

My feelings are hurt.

I don’t know any other way to say it. I’m just as grossed out writing that as you are reading it, but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s true. I actually feel slighted, in the same way I would if I’d found out a friend had stolen money from me. My blood is actually boiling.

I absolutely understood the Zaeed DLC. We all know how used games purchases ultimately affect developers, and it makes sense to try and incentivize purchasing the game new. But *stealing* a character away from the storyline, especially one so obviously important to the Mass Effect universe, just to grab an extra $10 from me? Just because I want to purchase the NORMAL version of the game? Just because I’m not buying an overpriced tin and book and fabric patch?

So, yeah... I’m hurt. And offended that you would treat your customers this way.

And a little sad.

...And so incredibly grossed out that this has actually made me sad.

What makes you think the Prothean was somehow stolen from you?  He is a DLC character, and not integral to the game as whole.  How is he stolen from you?  Because someone data-mined the Demo and found VO files?  That some how mean's he was ripped out of the game?

That just isn't the case my friend.  VO work is done weeks, months and in some cases years before they ever put the Assets in working physical form.  The fact they were still present in the Demo means very little. There is a lot that goes into development, more then even I can Imagine.

Fragments of VO does not make for a removed part of the game.

[ArkkAngel007]

Yuoaman wrote...

Goth Skunk wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

I would think my Premium Cake should come with sprinkles and icing, not an extra piece of cake - the cake itself should have enough of that to go around.

"From Ashes" is not an extra piece of cake. It's the icing.

The cake is still cake without it.

I don't know, in my mind "icing" would be alternate appearances and stuff that doesn't give me a differen't game experience.

The icing would change the experience of eating the cake though, though the icing usually sucks:unsure:

[N7Raider]

EJ107 wrote...

Sofia Lamb wrote...

Stephenc13 wrote...

The Prothean =/= Secret weapon against the Reapers.
So please stop complaining about how he should have been in the actual game.

The Prothean is just a survivor of the extinction. Not a secret weapon.
Surviving one extinction =/= Being all powerful.

He's just an interesting side-story that fits well as DLC.

Indeed. I have read the leaked script, and the Prothean does nothing of note.

This makes him wasted potential more than anything else. It's a shame they didn't just include him in the main game in an important role. 

How does this make him waisted potential?  Just because this one individual Prothean doesn't play a significant role doesn't undermine the Protheans importance as a species, not in this game or in the series as a whole.  

[foo man chew]

Tazzmission wrote...

vinwarrior wrote...

I think this DLC should be part of the story but sounds great. I think you should make more DLC like this. Like a mission back to Feros, that was a prothean ruin. Or to Ilos. By the way can anyone tell me if grunt is returning in this game? Thanks.

carefull now otherwise the same whiney posters will demand that should be free also


i personally wouldnt mind like a prothean expansion involving ilos and the construction of the science facility there

So because they removed content to sell it day one that means everybody wants all dlc for free.If you cant see them making a quick buck off you thats fine but dont expect everybody else to feel the same way just because its mas effect/bioware.

[Wulfram]

Gaiden96 wrote...

Bioware states they did so to allow SE buyers to have this content be available to them just like those who pre-ordered the CE, considering this particular content was, at a time, exclusive to the Collector's Edition. As in nobody else would get it.

It was never exclusive to the CE.  As you could tell by the fact that it didn't say "exclusive".

[GuyIncognito21]

Tobey2011 wrote...

I have a new business model to propose, I feel like EA/BioWare may like it. Why sell something like a SE or CE at all? People get way too much content for very little money!
Instead I recommend selling in short episodes that will be released every two month or so. This way we keep people playing and most importantly, sell little content for A LOT of money! Of course some sort of premium version of those little plot advancing episodes should exist. It's always nice to be able to overcharge for very little deviation from the usual product !

While I acknowledge the tongue-in-cheek nature, it really is a legitimate question.  I'm curious to hear from the apologists where the line actually is on this business model. 

Obviously BW and EA don't think they could get away with that .  Coincidentally that's why it's important that the acknowledgment of the existence of piracy not be suppressed on this forum, the specter of piracy is one of the few things keeping any of these companies honest anymore.

[Maeshone]

Wulfram wrote...

Gaiden96 wrote...

Bioware states they did so to allow SE buyers to have this content be available to them just like those who pre-ordered the CE, considering this particular content was, at a time, exclusive to the Collector's Edition. As in nobody else would get it.

It was never exclusive to the CE.  As you could tell by the fact that it didn't say "exclusive".

It was also never advertised as part of the SE. Using this logic why would it be part of the SE then?

[Ianamus]

N7Raider wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

This makes him wasted potential more than anything else. It's a shame they didn't just include him in the main game in an important role. 

How does this make him waisted potential?  Just because this one individual Prothean doesn't play a significant role doesn't undermine the Protheans importance as a species, not in this game or in the series as a whole.  

I haven't read the leaked script, but I assume that the Protheans do not play a large role in Mass Effect 3, and that the squadmember is the main source of Prothean lore/input in the game. 

Modifié par EJ107, 24 février 2012 - 01:07 .

[Azure33]

rainasa wrote...

Azure33 wrote...

Agreed. This whole situation is just a cynical ploy to leverage ten more dollars out of their customers. It shows a disrespect for their fans and I would rather spend my money with a gaming company that does not try to monetize content in such a ham fisted and manipulative way.

execpt that it isnt, this content was made after ME3 was done and was awaiting certification by the DLC team, it was not made as a EA conspiracy to milk the foolish SE owners of 10$ , it was made for long time fans to experience a character that would not have made it into the final game and was put in the CE as part of this. It is also completely OPTIONAL. it is not required for the main game, he does not effect the story at all, and if you feel that you REQUIRE extra content to get a full version of the game, then that is your proplem. not biowares.

Considering their track record with DLC I do not buy the certfication bit. They have been expanding their use of DLC to monetize content over the last several games. The DLC continued to shrink in size and grow in numbers. Now we have a situation where they have DLC ready to begin the cash train on day one. No thanks. I'll pass.

Sure I am only one person, but I can still vote with my wallet and feel good about it. I't may be irrelevant to you but it matters to me how I spend the money I earn.

[Gobbi82]

If you look at ME2 for the PS3, you'll notice it has all the DLC untill LotSB, but for a PS3 player, that's just the ME2 they have always known ... Take away all that content, and the game is shrunk. It's incomplete, so yes the content is relevant, all of it.

Story-expanding content should be charged for, I don't have a problem paying for it, but when you see a case like the one we are discussing, it saddens me to see something that should be in the final product get snatched away and charged just for the sake of winning more money.

Modifié par Gobbi82, 24 février 2012 - 01:07 .

[Alex Arterius]

The Prothean should have been in the game, it's a integral part of the ME universe.

Don't give me the BS that the Prothean was made on top of the game, beacuse ME2 has 12 charcters. Minus the Porthean we have 6. There's no way halving the cast hasn't given Bioware a load more time to add one more charcter in the game pre launch.

This should be free for everyone and I pre ordered the CE. I think it's fair all fans should be allowed this DLC for free, and I feel a great amount of sympathy for the people who couldn't afford to pre order the CE and are now missing out on this DLC. VERY unfair

[Leaser Resael]

Maeshone wrote...

Leaser Resael wrote...

PetrySilva wrote...

mogonk wrote...

If games were "worth" $70, companies would charge $70 for them and customers would pay it.  The fact that they don't means they aren't.  That's market capitalism.

Day 1 DLC is effectively a raise in the price of the game that is designed to trick the consumer into believing it's cheaper than it is.  It's a way of pricing the game at $70 without putting a $70 price tag on it. 

In the same way that the real cost of most f2p games is higher than their p2p counterparts, DLC is a way of misleading players into misperceiving the real costs of their purchase.  In both cases this is achieved by making the player pay for content.  When that content is not produced outside of the development cycle, but as part of the development process, this becomes particularly egregious.  That's what we have here. 

I can understand why some consumers would grumble about this, but buy the game anyway.  What I cannot understand is why some consumers defend with great intensity a company that is adopting business practices that hurt them.

It's sorta surreal.  The kind of thing one might expect to read in a dystopian science fiction novel.

Ever heard of people who got raped and said: "thank you for raping me"?

That's exactly what's happening to Bioware's defence force.

+1

The funny thing is that Bioware said that they couldn't implement proper joystick support in the game, HD textures or weapon holster on the PC version (to mention something) because they didn't have the people and time to do it before release, but all of the sudden they had an entire different team making this dlc? So instead of making every version the best possible one with proper support, they put people to work on DLC, and that DLC is a prothean, the last of it's race alive?
This is so wrong in so many ways that it's just sad to see Bioware doing it but is even more sad to see people defending them.

Uh, no. That's just blatant lying. It was the same team that worked on the Prothean DLC, they just did it after the game had shipped for verification or whatever the process of getting it approved for consoles is called. During this time, the team CAN NOT add more content to the base game, and when it comes back, that is the gold game. So why not spend this time working on DLC?

Look, the game went gold a few weeks ago, so until then they could have added those things I mentioned before, hell even a lot of CE owners find this Prothean DLC as a bad move on Bioware/EA's part. It's just wrong and my point is that it's clearly that Bioware's priorities weren't "making the best single player experencie they could" since a prothean, like it or not, IT IS an important piece of story content and that wasn't included in the game but MP was. If they couldn't make this DLC in time, fine, release it as they did with Shale or Zaeed.

[Evilelf007]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Azure33 wrote...
Agreed. This whole situation is just a cynical ploy to leverage ten more dollars out of their customers. It shows a disrespect for their fans and I would rather spend my money with a gaming company that does not try to monetize content in such a ham fisted and manipulative way.

Bingo.  Ham fisted is a good way of describing it, because this ploy didn't even pass the straight face test.

They're trying to get people to pay extra for what they otherwise would have gotten at the normal price.  That's cut content DLC and it's an abhorrent business practice.

Important parts of the game should not be held ransom on launch just to soak a few more bucks out of people.

Almost every counter-argument to this either wilfully misrepresents the argument or ignores it in favor of some other straw man.

You're right in that the Prothean is cut content... but wrong in that everyone would have gotten him had there not been dlc.  His story was cut out and was not going to fit with their final script version.  He was written out of it completely.

THANKS to dlc, they were able to put in a small part for him after the fact that is just a cool little addition.

The Prothean is just a nice pinstripe added to the exterior of a car as a dealership option instead of a factory option.  Either way it's an option and will have no effect on anything but estetics of the game, not performance or completeness of the story itself.

[chuckles471]

Kithrus wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Kithrus wrote...

Chozo_Hybrid wrote...

How about they reduce the CE by ten bucks and include it in the SE of the game? Refend those by ten bucks who bought the CE and have already paid etc.

In an ideal world perhaps.

When you buy a game your paying from the moment the devolpment team clocks in day 1 to the day they clock out the night before launch. Them taking that time to make other content then charging for it is wrong.

There are exceptions to this rule like weapons skins and other causmetic things but thats not what this DLC.

Do I care that its a Prothean... A bit yes but I care more that its a content DLC I'm paying for technically twice.

I won't lie, I expected this extra charater to be like Zaeed in the second game. He makes some witty comments in his room but doesn't have a diologue tree and a small mission.

That would have been something I could grudgingly let slide.

However.... We have a charater who clearly unless Bioware is stupid has a full fleshed out plot interweaved into the exsisting story with missions, new powers, diolog and who knows what else.

thats more then a tiny DLC.

So selling that on day one is bad marketing. Not from a money stand point but ethically from a customer relations stand point.

The Question is what will they be willing to do next time? Whill they be honest and let us have the future Shale free because it was meant for the game or charge us because they can?

I know this DLC wasn't meant to be anything but a DLC but that fact bugs me too.

Read the thread, this has been debunked.  Get a better understanding of game development, there is a span of time that can be months before the retailers start selling and the disc content finalization.

What was bebunked? how things play out in Game productions? I wasn't trying to prove anything about when or where what happens ect to say from the moment they start working on the game to the moment it launches I'm paying them to work on ME3. If they use that time to make DLCs to go with launch they should be free.

If this was made after launch then fine. I'll pay for this DLC but thats not the case.

No you pay for the use of intellectual property , a disc and box.  I have news, Bioware decides what that intellectual property is.  As long as they don't lie about what that intellectual property is, they can take whatever they want out of the game without breaking the law. Sorry it sucks but that's just the way the world works.

[TheInvicibleCandyBar]

People that are attacking bioware... you do realize that a lot of youre points don't make sense? Not trying to insult you, but saying things like "One Game, One price" would not work in anything else. If I went and bough a car, and saw that people who payed an extra hundred dollars got a tv with a similiar car, I couldn't say "My car isn't complete without that tv! Youre so unethical giving them that tv!" The same could be applied to game sequals. " what, you're planning a sequal! thats important to the overall plot of the story! How dare you make me pay extra!" You guys need to calm down on both sides of the argument and explain you're side better.

[RDSFirebane]

Ilgar92 wrote...

Is there people like me, who bought the CE ,but anti-dlc? Because this whole situation is a disgrace to SE owners, you guys payed 60$, you deserve to get a full experience from the game. Instead of the dlc, they could've put something different in CE: maybe a poster signed by VA-cast, or something else, at least it would be fair.

^ ya know I got the CE and I am pro DLC but I would have been willing to trade out the DLC for a poster signed by the intire Va-cast with all their chars on it that would have been great.

But honestly I doubt the Prothy dlc is on the disk for what litte it adds it would seem to be your standard run of the mill dlc its just added a *Hot Topic* Character everyone wants to know about and happned to be ready on launch because the game was delayed of course I'm only baseing that off of the information I've gathered from you guys.

[rainasa]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Azure33 wrote...
Agreed. This whole situation is just a cynical ploy to leverage ten more dollars out of their customers. It shows a disrespect for their fans and I would rather spend my money with a gaming company that does not try to monetize content in such a ham fisted and manipulative way.

Bingo.  Ham fisted is a good way of describing it, because this ploy didn't even pass the straight face test.

They're trying to get people to pay extra for what they otherwise would have gotten at the normal price.  That's cut content DLC and it's an abhorrent business practice.

Important parts of the game should not be held ransom on launch just to soak a few more bucks out of people.

Almost every counter-argument to this either wilfully misrepresents the argument or ignores it in favor of some other straw man.

execpt they are not cutting content, they are ADDING optional content. the prothean was cut during very early stages of the friggen SCRIPT, let alone development of the game. but instead of just removing him completely they gave fans the OPTION of experiencing a prothean squadmate. he now has very little if any at all involvement in the main story and is not required in anyway to fully appreicate the game. I can understand compliants about him being a protheian, and even agree with them to a point, but the crying about not getting day one dlc for free is just beyond silly you in no way DESERVE that content. 

Modifié par rainasa, 24 février 2012 - 01:09 .

[blindchaos]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Tobey2011 wrote...

I have a new business model to propose, I feel like EA/BioWare may like it. Why sell something like a SE or CE at all? People get way too much content for very little money!
Instead I recommend selling in short episodes that will be released every two month or so. This way we keep people playing and most importantly, sell little content for A LOT of money! Of course some sort of premium version of those little plot advancing episodes should exist. It's always nice to be able to overcharge for very little deviation from the usual product !

While I acknowledge the tongue-in-cheek nature, it really is a legitimate question.  I'm curious to hear from the apologists where the line actually is on this business model. 

Obviously BW and EA don't think they could get away with that .  Coincidentally that's why it's important that the acknowledgment of the existence of piracy not be suppressed on this forum, the specter of piracy is one of the few things keeping any of these companies honest anymore.

While I would not catagorize myself as an apologist, I'll take a stab at this.  I personally think the line should be at skins.  DLC, should not have an impact on the game, or more accuratly we should not be charged to have access to a full game, and DLC content should not trivialize the original product.

Where expansion packs fall in this debat I'm not sure, as I have always felt that they were original DLC, and have only played one Expansion that I felt was on par with the original. 

[breadedpudding]

What is included in the CE and the pricepoint associated to it are irrelevant. Everyone will be "enticed" by different things and they will all decide wether those "collectables" will be worth the buy. Personally I think the artbook is a huge additon and the CE would be worth $20 without the extra character and story.

My point is. Its not a Collectors Edition vs Standard Edition anymore. By adding story and gameplay to it, its not the Complete vs Incomplete Editions.

What about the people who want all the game but do not want the collectables? Thats $80 on March 6 to play a complete Mass Effect.

I can understand why people would be upset, and I'm not going to discount their feelings or the issue at hand. Would I buy it? Me personally, yes. Am I going to say that people who won't or are upset about it are wrong? No, because they have a right to feel that way and I don't blame them. If I were in their position, or felt the way that they do, I would certainly be upset myself. 

I admit that I might be a bit passive in some regards to the issue. But I have been paying attention, I have respected both sides, and I will support everyones right to feel the way the want to, think the way they want to, regardless of my own feelings. Someone might be wrong in my eyes, but in their eyes, I could very well be wrong as well. 

Modifié par breadedpudding, 24 février 2012 - 01:09 .