13369 réponses à ce sujet

[mrbauxjangles]

I can Hackett wrote...

Really? You guys are crying cuz you didnt buy the CE and now have to pay 10 dollars for optional dlc.... sigh

It is not about money and it is not about the CE. It is the fact that the squadmate is a major thing is the mass effect plot. ITS A GOD DAMN PROTHEAN. If the squadmate was just another zaeed then we would not care but you cannot put something this major into the game and tell people to pay more for it.

[Forres]

Warning: wall of text incoming.

The furore surrounding Mass Effect 3's "From Ashes" DLC is beginning to spiral out of control.  To my eye, it's very similar to what happened when Notch threw a wobbly at the YOGScast crew; people got themselves riled up into a nigh-murderous rage based on inaccurate information.  Of course, the situation isn't exactly the same, but the parallels are there to be drawn.  As much as I enjoy TotalBiscuit's work, I personally believe his rant is over the top.  Much like Notch's Twitter comments in the heat of the moment, TB's video smacks of someone who is still approaching the issue of the DLC from an emotional vantage point.  Let's try to see things a bit more objectively.

First of all, I highly recommend watching TB's video, which can be found here - it contains a lot of good points regarding what (generally speaking) constitutes "acceptable" business practice when it comes to DLC and Collector's Edition items, including the hotly discussed topics of "Day 1 DLC" and "Online Passes".  I agree with a lot of what TB says.  I'm even broadly with him in terms of what he's protesting about on a general scale, but some of his self-confessed "rant" is mis-informed at best.

TB seems set on the idea that the DLC was made before the game was complete.  He suggests that the content was deliberately cut from the final game; that the contents should have been part of the disc that everyone got.  However, multiple sources from within BioWare have expressed their denial of this.  Both the BioWare Social Network forum and Reddit have seen responses from employees and representatives of BioWare who assure us that - while certain elements such as voice acting and concept may have been done before the game was completed, for logistical reasons - Mass Effect 3 was feature-complete and sent away for certification before the vast bulk of work on this DLC was even started.  While some might argue that this sort of thing precludes the very notion of being "complete", since those at BioWare were clearly thinking about this content before the game was finished, I don't consider that to be a valid standpoint.  It's unreasonable to expect developers to simply abandon great ideas if they can't fit it in to the standard game, or conversely, somehow prevent themselves for coming up with great ideas for DLC while developing the game proper.

Even dismissing that side of TB's argument, there is still the secondary question: even if the game was feature-complete when this was developed, can you really justify something this important as being DLC?  For those reading this, it's likely no longer a spoiler (but warning, just in case) that the From Ashes content brings - among other things - a recruitable Prothean squad member.  I'm not going to go into details regarding who the Protheans are, because if you've played the first two games, you know.  You also know just how important they are to the Mass Effect lore; not quite as central as The Reapers, perhaps, but close enough to be vital.  The two aspects of this argument are therefore:

a) Should something as important as a living, breathing Prothean be excluded from the main game in the first place?
Should non-free DLC (especially Day 1 DLC) even include such offerings?

Short answer?  In my opinion, the answer is no to both.  I can see where the anger comes from.  People who haven't bought the CE or DDE (the former of which is near enough sold out) feel like they'll be missing out on a key part of the ME3 experience if they don't buy it.  This isn't another Zaeed or Kasumi.  This isn't even included free, ME2-style, as part of a "Cerberus Network" equivalent.  While the impact on the storyline of the Prothean squad member is still unknown, the fact remains that just about everyone who has a vested interest in the Mass Effect story is going to want this content.  In my opinion, EA and BioWare should have realised just how important this would be and made the correct decision, instead of the most profitable one.

So let's summarise what's been said so far.  The game was completed, then work began on this DLC.  It's very important and should probably have been included as part of the main game, or at least offered to all those who bought a new copy (a la the Cerberus Network).  The crux of the matter is that people are being asked to pay for it instead.  Seeing as though I'm from the UK as well, I'm going to do this next bit in Pounds Sterling.  The regular, boxed copy of Mass Effect 3 costs approximately £40, plus or minus a few quid depending on your preferred retailer.  The Collector's Edition (if you can still get it) retails at £70, despite pre-orders for the Xbox 360 version currently going for over £200 on eBay.  Firing up Origin, I can see that Digital Deluxe Edition is selling for £55.  From what I can gather, both the CE and DDE contain the aforementioned Day 1 DLC.

For argument's sake, then, let's say that the physical items you get in the CE (i.e. the art book, fabric patch, etc.) are being valued at £15, since they are the only benefit over getting the DDE.  I choose this figure because it's the difference in prices between the CE and DDE.  This means that those of us that pre-ordered CE and DDE - who have known for some time that there would be a bonus squad member included as part of the deal - are paying £15 more than those who purchase the standard edition.  Again, this figure is the difference between the DDE (or the CE minus the physical items) and the standard edition.

Now, From Ashes was priced at 800 Microsoft Points before it got pulled from the Marketplace, putting its price tag at around £7 (£6.80 to be exact).  To put it simply, those who purchase the standard edition are actually getting a really good deal in comparison to those who bought the CE or DDE, especially if they only wanted it for this specific aspect.  Standard copies can get the DLC for £7, standalone, whereas before it was only available as a DDE or CE exclusive.  Of course, there was every chance that it would be released separately after launch, but those who pre-ordered the DDE or CE were doing so to secure the earliest possible access to it, among other things.  They all had to pay between £15 and £30 for the privelege.

Think about this for a little bit.  BioWare are releasing what was - to all appearances - exclusive content, hitherto only available in limited quantities or via a digital, PC-only distribution platform... to everyone.  On all platforms.  For cheaper.  On launch day.  Surely this speaks to BioWare's credit in some regard?  Far from trying to anger their customers, I believe they're trying their hardest to keep us happy.

To summarise, I believe that DLC this important should not be exclusive in any fashion.  In that regard, BioWare made the right choice.  I believe that it should have been part of the standard game, but for whatever reason, it was decided that it would be DLC; I can't comment on whether this was a good or bad decision, because I have no idea what might have been cut to make time to include it.  I believe that making it cost anything to buy was a poor decision, but making it cost less than the DDE or CE to obtain was sensible (especially since they both include more than just From Ashes).

Look at it this way: EA have effectively increased the price of the game from £40 to £47 for those who care about the story.  Is that something to get angry about?  I suppose so.  TB's video is definitely representative of the feelings of a very vocal minority, who may themselves be representative of the silent majority.  But conversely, EA have reduced the cost of the non-cosmetic aspect of the DDE and CE (which we have all been loosely aware of for months) from £55 to £47.  Is that something to be happy about?  Are people even capable of taking this "glass half-full" viewpoint?  I'm not sure.  As someone who was already getting the CE way before this happened, it's certainly my take on things.

Lastly, the question of whether or not this game should be boycotted, as TB seemed to be indirectly calling for (at the risk of being a "bad person", I think he said).  Personally, I don't believe this is worth the effort.  The opinion is sufficiently divided between supporters of the move and detractors that I doubt EA or BioWare will budge on the issue.  As I explained above, there are different ways of looking at this: some might need to pay more, some might even cancel their CE or DDE and happily pay less.  A lot of people aren't even going to care, which in the grand scheme of things, is what EA have known from the outset.  Given that, don't you think they could have done a lot worse?

Let's not let one Prothean ruin an entire series, guys.  Let's take Earth back, with or without the DLC.

[H1natachan]

Not sure if this has been pointed out yet, but if the CE ed is $70, then the SE ed + the dlc will push it up to near enough the same price as the CE ed ? Therefore maybe this was E.A's goal to make everyone fork out the same amount anyway, just something to think on.

[Maeshone]

Wulfram wrote...

Maeshone wrote...

It was also never advertised as part of the SE. Using this logic why would it be part of the SE then?

I never expected it to be part of the SE from when it was announced.  What they did with Sebastian in DA2 showed pretty well the direction they were travelling in - and it wasn't in the direction of being more generous to their fans.

I'm just saying the bit about them releasing it to everyone because the CE is sold out is nonsense.  They always planned to sell it as seperate DLC, that's obvious.

Oh, then I get it. And that I actually agree with, I always expected them to sell it separately.

[Adokatikanon]

I find this really obnoxious. I guess I'll just wait till the price of the game goes down enough to make the DLC equal the original purchase price :[-/

[RiouHotaru]

TheStoner wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

I just want to remind some people that gameplay and story elements should have never been included in the Collectors Edition in the first place.

Why? Because then the differences between the editions makes it seem like te Standard Edition is not complete and even though the SE has a beggining, middle and end, it has a missing element of the game that others got at launch. Its an obvoius marketing ploy. They can deny that it effects the game much or that it was part of the original game and cut later but the message that gets out there and sticks is that "you dont have everything there is to have at launch unless you pay unpressidented amounts of money on day 1 for a normal game.

How does a SE owner NOT feel like he is getting an incomplete copy of the game.

I have no problem with CE's coming with any kind of exclusive content they want as long as it is collectables and artwork and other cosmetic stuff.

The arguement about how much or "what, you can't afford $10" is irrelevant. It should be free because nobody should ever feel like the game they buy at launch day is incomplete.

If Bioware and EA had any real balls they would have just made the SE $79.99 in stores with all the content, take it r leave it. Because thats what it really comes down to. They want 80, not 70 from you at launch day. It just too much. Not because of the sheer value of $10 but for one thing that people don't seem to get here, Principle.

Again with the incomplete argument.  There's no proof whatsoever that the game is currently incomplete.  The lack of optional, I repeat, OPTIONAL content is not a sign that the game is only half-finished.

Can't most content be considered optional? Yet I bet if the game only had 2 squadmates you would consider it incomplete.

Irrelevant and pointless example, because it doesn't come with 2 squadmates, and the elements of the CORE game aren't optional.  You're making comparisons that do not fit.  What's the term for that logical fallacy?

[blindchaos]

Wulfram wrote...

Maeshone wrote...

It was also never advertised as part of the SE. Using this logic why would it be part of the SE then?

I never expected it to be part of the SE from when it was announced.  What they did with Sebastian in DA2 showed pretty well the direction they were travelling in - and it wasn't in the direction of being more generous to their fans.

I'm just saying the bit about them releasing it to everyone because the CE is sold out is nonsense.  They always planned to sell it as seperate DLC, that's obvious.

QFT, after the Sebastion, everyone should have seen this coming

[GuyIncognito21]

Evilelf007 wrote...
Thay are in this to make money remember.

Haha my friend, you don't need to convince me of that, it's the entire point of my argument. 

If we all acknowledge they're in this for the money, I don't see why the suggestion that this is a money ploy should be met with so much hostility.

If you don't want to believe what Bioware has flat out stated publicly

Have they stated it publicly?  I've repeatedly asked to have a dev outrightly state that had they only been able to charge $60 for this game, this content would have never existed, and thus far have received no response.

Their public statements are about their conception of what a "completed" game is, but that's not really the issue.  I don't care if Bioware thinks it's complete, I want to know that in a system where they could not separately monetize this content it wouldn't have ever existed.

Modifié par GuyIncognito21, 24 février 2012 - 01:29 .

[Wulfram]

Maeshone wrote...

To everyone deriding bioware for this. The extra character has been known to be part of the collectors edition since July. Why haven't you kicked up this ****storm before, y'know, back when you could actually influence the design decisions of this game?

I've complained fairly frequently, and made it clear that my willingness to pre-order/buy the game on release was conditional on all characters available on release being in the Standard Edition. 

But I'm not a troll, so I limited myself to threads where it was relevant, rather than spamming everywhere. 

Other people chose to delude themselves into thinking it would be free like Zaeed.  And some other people, the fact that it's a Prothean seems to be the main cause of outrage, and that's only just been confirmed.

[rainasa]

EJ107 wrote...

I see where your comming from, and I agree that demanding the DLC be given for free at this stage is unrealistic, especially when it contains other content as well as the Prothean. That said, I think that main reason people are angry is that instead of placing the Prothean companion, which a lot of writing and time was spent on, in the game- they offer a watered-down version of him at an extra cost alongside the game as, esentially, a marketing ploy, and I think that is a reasonable complaint. 

I know that complaining now is unlikely to change things, but hopefully it will make them more careful about these kind of things in the future. 

from what i remember from the script, trust me when that it was a good idea remove him from it. his story was unenteresting and cliched and took a lot of focus off the shepard and at the end of the day, i will always prefer a character who is interesting because of his personality, and not because of his race and i wish they had just gotten rid of him.

But at the same time I also belive that Bioware has every right to sell him as a optional squadmate as priced DLC and as part of the CE, instead of giving away all the hard work they did on him after the game was done.

Modifié par rainasa, 24 février 2012 - 01:30 .

[pavi132]

Maeshone wrote...

N7Infernox wrote...

Maeshone wrote...

To everyone deriding bioware for this. The extra character has been known to be part of the collectors edition since July. Why haven't you kicked up this ****storm before, y'know, back when you could actually influence the design decisions of this game?

Does the answer to that question even matter now? 

It's more the psychologist in me being curios about this reaction, I guess I can't help myself

Simply a lack of knowledge about what Bioware was actually doing. The reason for the ****storm now is
1) People have actually heard about it and started preordering the game cause let's be honest, not that many people would think to preorder a game so far in advance.
2) The CE is sold out most, if not all, places so that even if someone wanted to get it, they can't.
3) The nature of the character in the DLC has been revealed and people realize that the character is a big deal. 
4) The fact that the character was in the leaked script but is now not in the game but turns up in this DLC on day 1 seems suspicious. 

[PSUHammer]

mrbauxjangles wrote...

I can Hackett wrote...

Really? You guys are crying cuz you didnt buy the CE and now have to pay 10 dollars for optional dlc.... sigh

It is not about money and it is not about the CE. It is the fact that the squadmate is a major thing is the mass effect plot. ITS A GOD DAMN PROTHEAN. If the squadmate was just another zaeed then we would not care but you cannot put something this major into the game and tell people to pay more for it.

Again...completely subjective.  You have no idea how they would fit into the story.

And, I happen to think the founder of the Blue Suns is a freaking pretty big part of the lore.  At least as important as a long extinct alien race.

[Evilelf007]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

You can say it all you want, but just by calling something "optional" they can't legitimately expect people to pay extra for it.

"Optional" is in the eye of the beholder.  As I've said so many times, shipping Madden 13 with only 31 teams (and an optional 32nd teamf or $10) would be an unscrupulous money grab.

The protheans by their very nature (especially being alive) are integral to the game.  In my opinion, and that of many others, BW intentionally withholding that part of the game on launch day and asking people to shell out more for it is releasing an incomplete game and charging us more to complete it.

Just because you FEEL something is integral to the game doesn't mean it really is.  You feel the character is integral because of his species alone.  That alone actually means nothing since the Galactic war is already in full swing.  The Protheans were integral to discovering about the reapers in the first place.  Guess what... discovery is over.  The Reapers are here.  The Prothean role is all but over.

Having never even had an actual living Prothean at all in the game up to this point kind of proves how uneeded a living Prothean really is.

Had Bioware never had a Prothean character, I doubt you'd have ever been up in arms about not having such an "integral" character in the first place.  You want the character for the same reason I do... just the cool factor of it.

[ArkkAngel007]

Forres wrote...

Holy text wall, Batman!

So glad you took the time to write this.  I think just about everything was spot on.

[RenascentAnt1]

Darth Krytie wrote...

RenascentAnt1 wrote...

Michael Gamble wrote...

As always, we are extremely thankful for all of your support. We pulled out all of the stops to make Mass Effect 3 the best game ever, and we can't wait for you all to experience it.

Mike


 

How about:

As always, we are extremely thankful for all of your money. We pulled
out all of the stops to make Mass Effect 3 the best profit for EA, and we
can't wait for you all to pay for it.

Mike

Sorry, couldn't resist the edit:lol:

Honestly, what's the problem with that? They're not philanthropists or a non-profit charity. They're a business. And DLC is a fairly decent business model that makes sense with the way gaming is changing and growing. If this game didn't make money, they wouldn't be able to survive to make more games. All studios need to earn money to function.

You missed my point  Bioware is a business, as you rightly pointed out, and my re-edit is highlighting the fact that they are a business....

[Yuoaman]

Sofia Lamb wrote...

mrbauxjangles wrote...

It is not about money and it is not about the CE. It is the fact that the squadmate is a major thing is the mass effect plot. ITS A GOD DAMN PROTHEAN. If the squadmate was just another zaeed then we would not care but you cannot put something this major into the game and tell people to pay more for it.

Despite being a Prothean he is not really that important to the plot.

I know that, but he has a lot of insight that fans of the series are going to want to be privy to, they should not have to pay an extra $10 to learn this stuff.

[foo man chew]

Hammer6767 wrote...

Maeshone wrote...

To everyone deriding bioware for this. The extra character has been known to be part of the collectors edition since July. Why haven't you kicked up this ****storm before, y'know, back when you could actually influence the design decisions of this game?

Because a certain small section of the Internet are belligerent whiners devoid of any sense of reason or logic.

I ordered the CE in advance (and paid extra for it) with the understanding I would be receiving said Character as part of my game.  Why a certain portion of the population thinks they should be entitled to this for free is beyond me.

"Because it SHOULD be part of the game."  What?  That is the stupidest entitlement bullsh*t I have ever heard.  Way to remove logic from your world.  Why would they diminish the value of all the CEs that people preordered?

What is stupid is every since gamestop put up that article are gamers entitled that word is all you hear everytime someone doesnt agree with someone elses point of view.But since you like the word entitled so much let me use it a bit.As a consumer i feel im entitled to a finished product this is true for every product why should gameing be any different.When they cut content and then sell it to me the same day i buy the product its not complete,Its a cash grab nothing more nothing less.If you like paying extra thats fine but dont accuse everybody else who doesnt like this particular buisness practice by calling them entitled.

[tetrisblock4x1]

Sofia Lamb wrote...

mrbauxjangles wrote...

It is not about money and it is not about the CE. It is the fact that the squadmate is a major thing is the mass effect plot. ITS A GOD DAMN PROTHEAN. If the squadmate was just another zaeed then we would not care but you cannot put something this major into the game and tell people to pay more for it.

Despite being a Prothean he is not really that important to the plot.

Define "important" Was knowing Loghains real motive in the DLC for letting the wardens die important? Know what happened to Morrigan in the witch hunt DLC? What about Liara becoming the most powerful informer in the galaxy through DLC?

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 24 février 2012 - 01:32 .

[Dexter111]

You know what makes me even more sad than the kind of business practices Bioware has chosen to take part in?
That there are actually so many people falling for and accepting their explanation. I could even accept if some people would just simply say "I don't care that they're ripping me off, I'm going to get it anyway", but this mass delusion is seriously something else.

Those "DLCs" are being set into stone very early in the project management cycle, not only the "Day1-DLC" ones, but even the ones that are set to release 1 or 2 months after Release, they're making a product plan detailing the release schedule and every piece of content, including when they announce it and when it is going to get released, anything other than minor things like "extra skins" are planned out well ahead of release.

Story and dialogues around those DLCs are being written and recorded at the same time as the rest of the content, it would (fiscally) not make very much sense to have to go back into the recording-studio and rehire all the (high-profile, high-cost) voice actors back for a few extra sentences. Examples for this with Mass Effect 3 are also rather obvious seeing as said character is all over the leaked script and as people already mentioned they announced him like 7 months or so ago without giving any details, there was also concept art and sound bits a long time ago.

Why they're constantly repeated that it is a "different team" working on it I don't know... yes there are a lot of different teams working on a lot of different aspects of the games (and different areas) at any given time during the development of such a game, you're not going to find 100+ people all working together on something.

In regards to the people saying that they only do DLC after the game has "gone gold", THINK about it... they announced they achieved gold status and are ready for pressing on 13.02: http://www.strategyi...dy-for-pressing , the full DLC leaked on Xbox Live on 20.02: http://kotaku.com/58...oils-plot-point , do you REALLY think that they did all the work on this in one week, I mean REALLY?

What's happening here is big companies that have noticed they can monetize certain parts of their games better and are becoming ever so more brazen in their attempts to do so, at least a few people in the industry like Kotick are outright saying it:

In the last cycle of videogames you spent $50 on a game, played it and took it back to the shop for credit. Today, we’ll (charge) $100 for a guitar. You might add a microphone or drums; you might buy two or three expansions packs, different types of music. Over the life of your ownership you’ll probably buy around 25 additional song packs in digital downloads. So, what used to be a $50 sale is a $500 sale today.

Aside from that it wouldn't even really matter if the content is done before or after release, Shale and Zaeed were "Downloadable Content" via a Code in every box too, free for everyone buying new, the same code is part of every Mass Effect 3 CE (I guess it means "Complete Edition" rather than "Collector's Edition" in this context) and it could also be part of every single SE without any major change to any code on the disk...

It seriously almost hurts my brain that there are people out there actually buying that they're doing this "extra content" for anything else than fleecing their customers.

Especially since they've been so thorough with Mass Effect 3 to make that abundantly clear for everyone:
- Important Day-15 Pay-DLC: http://kotaku.com/58...oils-plot-point
- Collector's Edition/Deluxe Edition with even more Exklusive In-Game Content (Bonus Mission + Character, Arsenal Pack, Hoodie, Robot Dog, Squad Appearence Pack)
- Several different Pre-Order Bonuses from a varying amount of Retailers and Online Distribution platforms like Origin, e.g. AT-12 Raider Shotgun or Warfare Gear etc.
- Cross-Game Promotion to Demo of another game (Kingdom of Amalur for Launcher Weapon + Armor)
- iOS Game as "tie-in", that can supposedly alter your progress in Mass Effect 3
- The game as a whole was pushed back because EA demanded a Multiplayer-Mode for all of its games, respective there's now an "Online-Pass".
- Additional Exclusive Bonus DLC with the different Action figures, "Collect all 8 for the full experience!", the Liara figure and a whole bunch of Razer Hardware
- I could bet that before or shortly after release there's going to be even more stuff offering additional DLC or content, maybe including Dr. Pepper Codes and another one of them Facebook games or something similar.

Whoever still believes that they're doing all this with "good intentions" and it's not just a pure marketing stunt to press as much money from their existing customer base is imo blind... if one cares about it so much that one doesn't buy the game is left to every single individual and I for one decided to cancel my SW:TOR subscription and not buy Mass Effect 3, but this mass delusion is really starting to get on my ******.

These publishers are taking it ever one step further, in Assassin's Creed II, they cut out an entire chapter near the end of the game to release it as DLC. Same thing happened with L.A. Noire as there were several (5 I think) "cases" with main story plot-points in them as well as dialogue that were "Pre-Order Bonuses" and DLC to buy later on. In Mafia2 they cut out a few characters and "Free-Roam" gameplay they showed before to add it later as DLC. "Arrival" for Mass Effect 2 came close as it's supposed to close the gap between it and the third part. "The Missing Link" for Deus Ex: Human Revolution ties loose ends that would let the ending of the original game make more sense, same thing with the "Sebastian" DLC for Dragon Age 2.
And there's always also the thing with the "on-disc" DLC, Capcom for instance is famously known for by selling "unlock codes" to stuff that is already on the disc.
By buying into this kind of business practice you are legitimizing it and are green-lighting them to do something even worse the next time and are making gaming as a whole more expensive and worse for everyone involved than the publishers themselves...

Modifié par Dexter111, 24 février 2012 - 01:35 .

[Draconis6666]

CatatonicMan wrote...

Just had a random thought:

If they are using the mandatory certification process as their reasoning/excuse in charging for this Day 0 DLC, shouldn't all the PC versions get it for free? The PC version doesn't have a certification process, so therefore that excuse wouldn't apply to the platform.

You think PC games dont go through certification? Every game goes through certification before the final build is approved and the game goes Gold its not exclusive to console games.

[rainasa]

pavi132 wrote...




Simply a lack of knowledge about what Bioware was actually doing. The reason for the ****storm now is
1) People have actually heard about it and started preordering the game cause let's be honest, not that many people would think to preorder a game so far in advance.
2) The CE is sold out most, if not all, places so that even if someone wanted to get it, they can't.
3) The nature of the character in the DLC has been revealed and people realize that the character is a big deal. 
4) The fact that the character was in the leaked script but is now not in the game but turns up in this DLC on day 1 seems suspicious. 

the only reason said character is a big deal is because he is a prothean and even in the script (which was VERY old, and content gets edited form scripts all the time) he really wasnt that important to the whole plot
and felt very forced in.

[RiouHotaru]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Evilelf007 wrote...
Thay are in this to make money remember.

Haha my friend, you don't need to convince me of that, it's the entire point of my argument. 

If we all acknowledge they're in this for the money, I don't see why the suggestion that this is a money ploy should be met with so much hostility.

If you don't want to believe what Bioware has flat out stated publicly

Have they stated it publicly?  I've repeatedly asked to have a dev outrightly state that had they only been able to charge $60 for this game, this content would have never existed, and thus far have received no response.

Their public statements are about their conception of what a "completed" game is, but that's not really the issue.  I don't care if Bioware thinks it's complete, I want to know that in a system where they could not separately monetize this content it wouldn't have ever existed.

"Conception" of what a completed game is?  They basically flat out stated the process by which they went about making the DLC, proving it wasn't "cut from the game, delayed, and then sold back".  The question YOU are trying to ask is a loaded one, and a false dichotomy.  You only provide for two possible outcomes, both of which only serve to justify your argument.

If the content could have existed, then you'll argue they shouldn't charge for it or "include it in the main game" (despite the fact doing so was patently impossible)

If the content couldn't have exist, you'll go "Then you should've just scrapped it."

You've basically set up a no-win situation with a trick question whose answers only ever benefit you, without considering possibilities.

[Darth Krytie]

RenascentAnt1 wrote...


You missed my point  Bioware is a business, as you rightly pointed out, and my re-edit is highlighting the fact that they are a business....

Can't always read tone in text.