13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Yuoaman]

Varen Spectre wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

So i guess jessica merizan is on reddit (or someone claiming to be her) and while she did not outright say it, she hinted that the prothean is always in the game, you just need the dlc to have him as a squadmate
http://www.reddit.co...n_community.../

She doesn't say that at all, he is not in the game unless you get the DLC.

But that reply  sounds quite promising. Or what does the "part of core game" mean?

It means that some of the information that Javik gives you will be found in the Codex entries and by poking around the world - you just won't see any actual Protheans.

[Varen Spectre]

^ +

rainasa wrote...

what she means is you can get most of the information the prothean gives you from diffrent sources

compare it to somthing tali says about the quarians to what to codex says about quarians

Yes, sounds like a plausible explanation... Thx for clearing that out.

Modifié par Varen Spectre, 24 février 2012 - 02:11 .

[Draconis6666]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...
Not really. If you don't want it, if you don't think the character will add a cool dimension to the game, it's not anything dramatic like money-grubbing.

I DO think it will add something cool to the game, which is the source of my consternation.  The apologists are trying to tell me it's not important to the game.

That's how perverse this argument has gotten.  The people defending the monetization of this content are doing so by stressing how unimportant the content is.  Does that seem backward to anyone else?

no because thats the very definition of optional, its something specific people decide they need for THEIR personal enjoyment that does not make it required for everyone to enjoy the product. Bioware has decided that the game is as enjoyable for the most number of people as it can be without the prothean and it is arrogant of you to say that they are wrong and that the prothean must be included regarldess of what it does or does not add because you feel protheans are important and it would enhance your enjoyment. They have given you soemthing optional that you have a choice to have or not have and you are in a sensecomplaining that the choice exists, They dont have to give it to you at all if they dont want to, likewise they can force it onto people and charge you more for the entire game if they want to. It is their game and they chose what goes into the core product not the consumer again your only option is to decide if you wish to buy the product or not. Your right does not entitle you to tell them that they are wrong about what is the core of their game, you only have the right to express that you are dissatisfied with the total content of the package for its value and tell them why anything beyond that such as demanding it be free to everyone is just ranting entitlement.

[RiouHotaru]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
Uhhh, no.  Now you're cherry-picking and misquoting me.  Use my entire post.

"The Emperor is a core character to the Star Wars Trilogy"

"A single Prothean is NOT integral to the Mass Effect Trilogy."

 

That's your opinion.  The reason I didn't include it is because it's not relevant to me (because I don't share your opinion).

The point is you apparently agree in principle that core content should not be withheld, which is all I really want out of you.

Whether you personally believe the protheans to be core content is not relevant to me.

Again, we have the script, and the track record of previous DLC characters to show the Prothean WON'T be plot-critical to ME3. 

If that's the case, then the character shouldn't even exist, or, at the very least, Bioware should come out and say that it's not remotely plot-critical and it should be thought of along the same lines as the robo pet.

That calls into question exactly why this content exists in the first place, but whatever.

And again, you go full force in the other direction.  Either he has be tied directly to the plot, or he shouldn't exist.  Why can't there be a middle ground?

Can't he be a compliment to the plot WITHOUT being tied directly to it?

[OdanUrr]

rainasa wrote...

Varen Spectre wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

So i guess jessica merizan is on reddit (or someone claiming to be her) and while she did not outright say it, she hinted that the prothean is always in the game, you just need the dlc to have him as a squadmate
http://www.reddit.co...n_community.../

She doesn't say that at all, he is not in the game unless you get the DLC.

But that reply  sounds quite promising. Or?

what she means is you can get most of the information the prothean gives you from diffrent sources

compare it to somthing tali says about the quarians to what to codex says about quarians

I believe you're on the right track here.

[Almostfaceman]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...
Not really. If you don't want it, if you don't think the character will add a cool dimension to the game, it's not anything dramatic like money-grubbing.

I DO think it will add something cool to the game, which is the source of my consternation.  The apologists are trying to tell me it's not important to the game.

That's how perverse this argument has gotten.  The people defending the monetization of this content are doing so by stressing how unimportant the content is.  Does that seem backward to anyone else?

You don't seem to recognize that there's a middle-ground here. You see, it's possible that the character is cool frosting for the game, but not something so essential that it robs you of crucial story elements. I think the people (like me) who don't have a problem with this see this for what it is - cool frosting, leather seats, heads up display, whatever. He's a squadmate that adds flavor to the game, but it doesn't break the experience if you chose not to bring him into the adventure. A much more interesting character than Zaeed, but not necessarily more essential to the narrative. Which just means that Bioware succeeded in making an interesting DLC.

Now it's obvious that Bioware looks on the character the way I and others see him, so they offered him, a long time ago, to the Collectors Edition crowd. The CE folks banked on the extra squaddie being interesting, and they were well rewarded. But they paid for that option. If Bioware were to give this to people now for free, then the forums would explode because the CE folks would be complaining about paying for something that others are getting for free - and rightly so.

[Draconis6666]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...
Yet its your opinion that it is offensive which has no validity beyond the fact that its your opinion so it applies only to you and those who share it and is not any more right than the opinion of someone who doesnt find it offensive and thinks its cool that hes there even though he is useless. To think otherwise would be extremely arrogant and elitist.

So what?  Have I ever claimed my opinion stands for more than my opinion?   What does that have to do with anything being discussed?

That depends if your discussion is simply to express your opinion or if it is to attempt to convince bioware that your opinion is right over others and that because of that you are entitled to something. I am not saying that you are doing this, but there are definatly people who are. I'm just making sure that you understand that your opinion does not actualy entitle you to anything beyond your right to express it.

[GuyIncognito21]

RiouHotaru wrote...
Can't he be a compliment to the plot WITHOUT being tied directly to it?

Because the very nature of the protheans forecloses that possibility in my mind.

[CommanderCoffee]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
Can't he be a compliment to the plot WITHOUT being tied directly to it?

Because the very nature of the protheans forecloses that possibility in my mind.

At least you're recognizing that your opinion on the DLC has bias with it.

[Maeshone]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
Can't he be a compliment to the plot WITHOUT being tied directly to it?

Because the very nature of the protheans forecloses that possibility in my mind.

Isn't that a problem with you rather than with Biowares design decisions in that case?

[GnusmasTHX]

Almostfaceman wrote...

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...
Not really. If you don't want it, if you don't think the character will add a cool dimension to the game, it's not anything dramatic like money-grubbing.

I DO think it will add something cool to the game, which is the source of my consternation.  The apologists are trying to tell me it's not important to the game.

That's how perverse this argument has gotten.  The people defending the monetization of this content are doing so by stressing how unimportant the content is.  Does that seem backward to anyone else?

You don't seem to recognize that there's a middle-ground here. You see, it's possible that the character is cool frosting for the game, but not something so essential that it robs you of crucial story elements. I think the people (like me) who don't have a problem with this see this for what it is - cool frosting, leather seats, heads up display, whatever. He's a squadmate that adds flavor to the game, but it doesn't break the experience if you chose not to bring him into the adventure. A much more interesting character than Zaeed, but not necessarily more essential to the narrative. Which just means that Bioware succeeded in making an interesting DLC.

Now it's obvious that Bioware looks on the character the way I and others see him, so they offered him, a long time ago, to the Collectors Edition crowd. The CE folks banked on the extra squaddie being interesting, and they were well rewarded. But they paid for that option. If Bioware were to give this to people now for free, then the forums would explode because the CE folks would be complaining about paying for something that others are getting for free - and rightly so.

[Heimdall]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
Can't he be a compliment to the plot WITHOUT being tied directly to it?

Because the very nature of the protheans forecloses that possibility in my mind.

The nature of the Protheans is managing to perform a last act of defiance before they all died off.  I truly don't understand the obsession.

[GuyIncognito21]

CommanderCoffee wrote...
At least you're recognizing that your opinion on the DLC has bias with it.

What does that even mean?  My opinion is biased in favor of my opinion?  Isn't that what an opinion is?  it would be strange indeed for my opinion to be biased against my opinion.  I think I'm having an aneurysm.

I don't see how that's relevant, especially when the opinion of the customer is the only hook the company has to make money and continue existing.

Modifié par GuyIncognito21, 24 février 2012 - 02:15 .

[avmf8]

RiouHotaru wrote...

avmf8 wrote...

I don't even understand them pulling a steaming pile like this. I have a hard enough time justifying $60 for a game. Now they are trying to charge $70 for a game. Then they put a spin on it  saying any fan of the game would have bought the special editon anyway.

I do not want the special edition of any game the only time I have bought a special edition is if the special edition could be had for the same price as the regular version. Which is not a common thing to happen but it does happen on rare occasion. At any rate 60 dollars for a game is expensive let alone $70.

Some people mentioned other forms of entertainment and say people dont mind paying allof for those. Well I do mind I do not use other forms of entertainment as I have found them expensive. Take a movie theater I have not been in one for 10 years.

I have not had cable for 2 years now I was tired of paying just to have advertising shoved in my face. True there are DVR's and I had one but the final straw was when I was watching a movie and a advert was superimpossed over the movie. I canceleld my cable because of that. Do not even bother telling me I can do other things because I cannot.

I am already paying more for games now then I should I am not OK with game developers and publishers trying to get even more moeny out of me. Some seem to think it is only 10 bucks. Weah well it adds up.

Say I kept throwing little pebbles at you I may annoy you a bit but I would be a very small annoyance. Now lets say now its not just me but me and 100 other people doing the same thing. Then all of a sudden that is not an annoyance its painful. Which I beleive people a long time ago were killed my people just throwing small stones at them.

Which is mt point this $10 is a small stone. But is is causing other game publsishers to do the same. This is not a slippery slope argument this is what is happening today not what could or could not happen lateI already have the other 2 ME games they were already guaranteed my $60.

No kidding I played ME 1 and ME 2 with multiple characters and did every major varriation and choice in each game. Such as one game save I saved Wrex another I killed him stuff like that. I did everything from nice sheppard who is nice to look at me wrong and I will kill you sheppard to every varriation in between. There is noo need for them to try and milk more money from me.

Honestly is $60 not enough? Oh and another thing I have bought games that are just $10 Terraria anyone? Terraria sure gave me allot more enjoyment then the addes day one DLC would give me. That is just stupid day one DLC is not right. Since for it to be day one it was cleerly cut to sell later or get the game out faster.

But they aren't charging $70, they're only charging $60.  You're not in any way obligated to buy the DLC.  It's available on release yes.  But are you pressured into purchasing it?  Is there a time limit on it's availability?  Of course not!  If the fact it's released on day 1 bothers, you, wait a few weeks or a month and then purchase it.  Or don't purchase it at all.

I don't care special editions should not have extra game content period. I do not buy special editions I don't want a comic book or a trinket or something else. I don't want all that stuff. Why do people think because someone likes a game they want all that.

Such as a freind giving me a model of the normandy ship. It was one of those kind of deals where you had to fake being happy whle you are thinking inside "WTF am I going to do with this. If I turn around today there it is on a shelf with that skyrim dragon both covered in dust. Someone bought me the special edition of Skyrim. I did'nt want it would not have bought it if it was my money.

So them saying they want more money because I did not buy the collectors edition is just plain wrong. Saying it is not part of the story I bet it is.

I can see it now "Shepard use that prothean battle network to destroy the reapers" opps oh wait I cant only a prothean can use it well I guess too bad every game save I have will now end with extinction off all races unless I pay $10. Then saying he is not important that is like saying that dog from Final Fantasy 7 who was also the last of his kind was not needed to the story. I said that dog since his name was some kind of number I cannot remember.

Also like a british guy said "its a sodding Prothean of course its important" As he also said that is a very big deal and no one can tell me otherwise.

[GnusmasTHX]

Lord Aesir wrote...

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
Can't he be a compliment to the plot WITHOUT being tied directly to it?

Because the very nature of the protheans forecloses that possibility in my mind.

The nature of the Protheans is managing to perform a last act of defiance before they all died off.  I truly don't understand the obsession.

It's because every single Prothean ever participated in the construction of the conduit and the hacking of the Keepers.

[_symphony]

Yuoaman wrote...

It means that some of the information that Javik gives you will be found in the Codex entries and by poking around the world - you just won't see any actual Protheans.

as much as I did like to have proof, how can you be so sure about that?

[RiouHotaru]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...
Not really. If you don't want it, if you don't think the character will add a cool dimension to the game, it's not anything dramatic like money-grubbing.

I DO think it will add something cool to the game, which is the source of my consternation.  The apologists are trying to tell me it's not important to the game.

That's how perverse this argument has gotten.  The people defending the monetization of this content are doing so by stressing how unimportant the content is.  Does that seem backward to anyone else?

1) Calling it monetization in order to belittle our argument doesn't help your own.  The "defenders" see them charging for the DLC as perfectly reasonable.  They want compensation for their work.

2) To say he's "unimportant" is also a misnomer.  He doesn't HAVE to be critical to the game's story.  Zaeed, Kasumi, Sebastian and Shale all add to the plot without being core parts of it.  Why can't the Prothean be the same?

3) We have the evidence of the leak which backs up the claim that he's not plot-critical.  I'm not sure what else to tell you at that point.  People swear up and down the leaks are factual, so if it says he's not critical, than he's not.

[Yuoaman]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
Can't he be a compliment to the plot WITHOUT being tied directly to it?

Because the very nature of the protheans forecloses that possibility in my mind.

The nature of the Protheans is managing to perform a last act of defiance before they all died off.  I truly don't understand the obsession.

It's because every single Prothean ever participated in the construction of the conduit and the hacking of the Keepers.

Personally I'm interested to actual learn about this species on a more personal level, I know we aren't going to get more insight on the Conduit's construction or anything. I just want more cool lore stuff.

[RiouHotaru]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
Can't he be a compliment to the plot WITHOUT being tied directly to it?

Because the very nature of the protheans forecloses that possibility in my mind.

That's an issue you have, rather than an issue of the writing.  Again, if this were ME1 or 2, I'd agree with you on the importance of the character full-heartedly.  But we're in the finale.

[Draconis6666]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

CommanderCoffee wrote...
At least you're recognizing that your opinion on the DLC has bias with it.

What does that even mean?  My opinion is biased in favor of my opinion?  Isn't that what an opinion is?  it would be strange indeed for my opinion to be biased against my opinion.  I think I'm having an aneurysm.

I don't see how that's relevant, especially when the opinion of the customer is the only hook the company has to make money and continue existing.

Its relevant because your opinion is not nessicarily the majority and may not be the ideal opinon for them to target. They cannot please everyone, you are entitled to express your opinion to them but they are just as entitled to tell you that they dont agree and are going to do something else beacuse they believe the majority of their customers feel differently.

[CommanderCoffee]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

CommanderCoffee wrote...
At least you're recognizing that your opinion on the DLC has bias with it.

What does that even mean?  My opinion is biased in favor of my opinion?  Isn't that what an opinion is?  it would be strange indeed for my opinion to be biased against my opinion.  I think I'm having an aneurysm.

I don't see how that's relevant, especially when the opinion of the customer is the only hook the company has to make money and continue existing.

Worded poorly. Let me retry.

Your view on the DLC is going to be skewed because you're taking A BUNCH OF GUDDAMN ONES AND ZEROS TOO SERIOUSLY.

[GnusmasTHX]

Yuoaman wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
Can't he be a compliment to the plot WITHOUT being tied directly to it?

Because the very nature of the protheans forecloses that possibility in my mind.

The nature of the Protheans is managing to perform a last act of defiance before they all died off.  I truly don't understand the obsession.

It's because every single Prothean ever participated in the construction of the conduit and the hacking of the Keepers.

Personally I'm interested to actual learn about this species on a more personal level, I know we aren't going to get more insight on the Conduit's construction or anything. I just want more cool lore stuff.

I already like what I've seen. If he has more than I've already read, good stuff.

[_symphony]

Lord Aesir wrote...
The nature of the Protheans is managing to perform a last act of defiance before they all died off.  I truly don't understand the obsession.

Anyone that cares about Mass Effect's lore will care about the protheans.

[GnusmasTHX]

_symphony wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...
The nature of the Protheans is managing to perform a last act of defiance before they all died off.  I truly don't understand the obsession.

Anyone that cares about Mass Effect's lore will care about the protheans.

There's a difference between caring and assuming he's a super-scientist-weapon-Jesus that kills the Reapers for you. 

He has insight. He's not the macguffin/deus ex machina that will save the world for you.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 24 février 2012 - 02:19 .

[Draconis6666]

_symphony wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...
The nature of the Protheans is managing to perform a last act of defiance before they all died off.  I truly don't understand the obsession.

Anyone that cares about Mass Effect's lore will care about the protheans.

Generalizations are not good basis for logical arguments... just so you know.