13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Travie]

fropas wrote...

Travie wrote...

If they just said 'we did this cynically to make more money for our company' (which is the obvious truth by the way), then this discussion would be over by now.

Agree or disagree at least they wouldn't be lying to us.

No it wouldn't, people would just post about how "evil" BW is for making money off their "fans". . .

Actually you're probably right about that, but I doubt it would be a 250 page thread in one day. 

The around 10 people (friends and family) I've talked about on this subject in person pretty resoundingly don't care about DLC and, more often then not, like the prospect of more content outside of the expansion packs.

The hub ub on the internet on DLC pales in comparison to the ****storm that happens when day 1 DLC is mentioned.

Its when companies LIE about what they are doing that people get upset and feel like they are being ripped off.

[msmpsn]

Travie wrote...



It was announced AS DLC 7 months ago. 

They made it with the express purpose of selling it seperately instead of including it in the game.

They wanted to make money on it, and they are still pawning it off like its some happy coincidence that we get some extra content.

If they would just be honest about it people wouldn't get so riled up.

And they've also stated several times that it was finished AFTER the main game was finished.  What part of that are people not understanding? 

They're a business, they're want to make money. Why would they sit and twiddle their thumbs after the game has gone into certification?

[Commdor]

Ghost-621 wrote...

EA/Bioware, you guys are so freakin' full of crap. Oh my goodness...you guys are so freakin' full of it.

You didn't "just finish" with this DLC. It was known about ever since the EA monkeys accidentally leaked "the prothean" during E3 2011.

Here a just a few other ways that I can prove you are lying out of your butt.

Zaeed was a day-one release, much like From Ashes, and it was free.

When the download for From Ashes is only a few KBs, it will prove that we are not downloading extra content, but a code that unlocks content that is already on the disk but locked due to nickle-and-diming protocol.

You're not fooling ANYONE.

The download for this DLC is over 600 mbs. I saw it myself.

[PSUHammer]

wrdnshprd wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

<snip>

Your opinion is that the full experience requires the Prothean. If it's important to you, you have the option to buy it. The fact is, not everyone will feel that way. Some people have even expressed happiness that it will be DLC because they can avoid buying it, due to the fact that they don't even really want the Prothean to be a part of their story. No, I'm not making this up. There were a couple posts to this effect within all the hate of this thread somewhere. Something about elementary school story-telling and it being unnecessary, etc. I'm not all that stoked about it because from the people who read the story leaks, they have said it's not that important to the plot. So he'll be a walking codex I'll talk to a few times and unless he has badass abilities, he won't even be in my squad most of the time.

Multiplayer on the other hand, is a BLAST. I had very mediocre expectations but it's incredibly fun, especially with friends. If I had to choose between the Prothean or MP being in the main game or being DLC (or not making it into the game at all), I'd take MP every time. I will get hundreds of hours of enjoyment out of it, whereas the Prothean is non-essential to finishing my 4 Sheps.

let me ask you this.. would you be ok if they made Ashley or Liara the day 1 DLC instead of 'from ashes'?  if not, whats the difference? 

the fact that they have been an intregal part of the storyline since ME1?  so have the protheans. 

the fact that you developed your character around ashley/liara?  in a way you can say the same things about the protheans.  all you have to do is go back to shephard's first mssion in ME1 to see why this would be the case.

my point is, what content is, and is not important is subjective.  some may think the prothean is vital, some may care more about their ashley/liara storyline.   however, when you release a game and advertise it as a complete product.. you should actually release it as a complete product.  and when you exclude a certain piece of that content from a portion of your customer base in order to monetize it, you are going to upset customers.

i would have thought bioware would be above such things.  unfortunately, since warden's keep, im beginning to see that i was wrong.

But Ashley and Liara are already established characters with story arcs?  How is that even comparable?  You are talking about a character that is new, and according to Bioware comments so far, inconsequential to the story.

Apples and Oranges.

[rainasa]

Travie wrote..
It was announced AS DLC 7 months ago. 

They made it with the express purpose of selling it seperately instead of including it in the game.

They wanted to make money on it, and they are still pawning it off like its some happy coincidence that we get some extra content.

If they would just be honest about it people wouldn't get so riled up.

what timeline actually looks like is more along the lines of

• the first leaked script of ME3 is released in a blaze of glory across the internet, it included javick, the prothean as a major plot point.

• somewhere between the first and second leaked scripts javick is removed completely from the story, probably due to a combination of time restraints and sup par story telling

• instead of simply removing javick from the entire game they plan for him to be an optional squad mate and decide to release him with the CE and as DLC and only begin working on his mission untill after they filed for certification.

Modifié par rainasa, 24 février 2012 - 05:12 .

[Ghost-621]

Commdor wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

EA/Bioware, you guys are so freakin' full of crap. Oh my goodness...you guys are so freakin' full of it.

You didn't "just finish" with this DLC. It was known about ever since the EA monkeys accidentally leaked "the prothean" during E3 2011.

Here a just a few other ways that I can prove you are lying out of your butt.

Zaeed was a day-one release, much like From Ashes, and it was free.

When the download for From Ashes is only a few KBs, it will prove that we are not downloading extra content, but a code that unlocks content that is already on the disk but locked due to nickle-and-diming protocol.

You're not fooling ANYONE.

The download for this DLC is over 600 mbs. I saw it myself.

You did? Great!  I shall stand corrected on the KB/MBs! That stil doesn't change a thing, buddy. You and I both know that this crap is already on the disk, they just want you to fork over that extra sheep-money.

[Daywalker315]

Raxxman wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

FOR THE RECORD

Standard Edition = Full Game

Collector's Edition = Full Game + DLC

BOTH GET THE FULL GAME, ONE JUST GETS BONUS CONTENT

THE GAME IS STILL COMPLETE

You should really change the wording here.

SE = Core Game
CE = Core Game + DLC
Complete = game + all DLC after development cycle ends

That's a pretty fair way of putting it. And I see nothing wrong with that model personally. The core game provides everything one needs to play and enjoy the game. Beyond that, we're allowed to pick and choose what else we would like to experience in our game on top of the already massive amount of content the core game provides.

*Note: this is general, not directed toward above posters*

It's funny when you think about a game like ME3, where tens of millions of dollars went into making it and tons of people worked hard on it for the last 26 months (plus however long some were working ahead before ME2 launch) and they still sell the core game for $60. On the other hand, you have a game like NeverDead that just came out and got a 3.0 review from IGN. I can guarantee the budget was a fraction of ME3, so they have far less to recoup their cost, but it's still going to be sold at $60 retail. I guarantee there is far less content in that game, and the quality is much lower obviously.

What I'm saying is that we're very lucky to have a company that absolutely crams two discs full of content for a game while keeping the quality high, and we still pay the same amount for that disc as the crap known as NeverDead. If that means that I have to pay a little bit for EVEN MORE content, I'm happy to do so if I want to play it. To me, $80 for a CE and $20-40 in future DLC purchases I might make is pretty cost-effective for getting HUNDREDS of hours of enjoyment out of a game.

Even if you don't think like me, people who have 5 or 8 or 12 ME2 Shepards they're waiting to play in ME3, you can't tell me that $60 for the core game (or even $70 if you think the DLC is important) is a bad bargain for the 100, 200, or even 300+ hours of enjoyment you'll get out of it. Most games we are asked to spend $60 on provide a 6 hour campaign and little else to do, with zero replayability because the story is always the same. I'm happy to pay $10 extra for a 5,000% increase in the amount of hours played.

Modifié par Daywalker315, 24 février 2012 - 05:11 .

[Travie]

msmpsn wrote...

Travie wrote...



It was announced AS DLC 7 months ago. 

They made it with the express purpose of selling it seperately instead of including it in the game.

They wanted to make money on it, and they are still pawning it off like its some happy coincidence that we get some extra content.

If they would just be honest about it people wouldn't get so riled up.

And they've also stated several times that it was finished AFTER the main game was finished.  What part of that are people not understanding? 

They're a business, they're want to make money. Why would they sit and twiddle their thumbs after the game has gone into certification?

Yes, its what they said. I don't believe them.

[Acidrain92]

Lord Aesir wrote...

They planned it in advance, so what?  They said they developed it later, they never said the Prothean wasn't something they had planned on doing as DLC after they removed him from the early script due to some poor story effects.  They are being honest.

Exactly. All developers plan DLC in advance. With this mentality in mind, this Prothean business is nothing new =/ they just happened to create the DLC before the game hits shelves.

Every major game has DLC ideas before the game comes out. They could have pushed the game back a bit so that they could fit all of these DLC ideas into the game on time so they dont have to be DLC in the first place, BUT THIS NEVER HAPPENS. DLC is a money making strategy and every developer does it and plans it out.

this is nothing new. This is no different than the shadow broker DLC. Publishers make willing decisions involving pushing a game out even though there are extra ideas floating around JUST for the sake of making money off of them with DLC.

[ArkkAngel007]

Daywalker315 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Travie wrote...

Michael Gamble wrote...

- The Collectors Edition has been advertised from the beginning as containing a bonus character/mission, but we were not at liberty to provide the details. The Prothean is optional content that is certainly designed to appeal to long-time fans, which is why he is part of the CE offering (the version many fans would be likely to purchase).  Mass Effect 3 is a complete – and a huge game - right out of the box.

Sure, it is complete... except for this big piece that is being sold separately at release.

- The content in “From Ashes” was developed by a separate team (after the core game was finished) and not completed until well after the main game went into certification.

 

Wow that great! Since they rushed to get this finished I'm sure you'll give it away for free right?

Right?



Just in case that bit of sarcasm didn't get across,

I don't believe you. I don't believe you at all. 

The game just went gold last week, you announced it remember?

<_<

Do you honestly think anyone believes you couldn't have put this in the game if you wanted to?

You obviously don't understand how the certification process works, do you?

The game going gold means it passed certification.

They CANNOT add ANYTHING during that process.

Exactly. Going gold just means it passed certification and is off to have discs manufactured. The game was sent off for certification weeks before it went gold, which means all the content was finalized back in January that was going on the discs.

You're not getting it.  It isn't on the disc, except for the work that had to be done earlier due to developmental contraints (VO work) and required markers to designate in cutscenes and dialogue where it would take place for the character.  That's it.

The actual DLC was worked on separately and finished after the retail copy was going through certification.

You don't agee with the DLC, fine, neither do I.  But at least bring the correct information to the table.

[Acidrain92]

When you really read between the lines, this whole debacle is no different than every other DLC ploy in the business.

Modifié par Acidrain92, 24 février 2012 - 05:11 .

[Heimdall]

Ghost-621 wrote...

Commdor wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

EA/Bioware, you guys are so freakin' full of crap. Oh my goodness...you guys are so freakin' full of it.

You didn't "just finish" with this DLC. It was known about ever since the EA monkeys accidentally leaked "the prothean" during E3 2011.

Here a just a few other ways that I can prove you are lying out of your butt.

Zaeed was a day-one release, much like From Ashes, and it was free.

When the download for From Ashes is only a few KBs, it will prove that we are not downloading extra content, but a code that unlocks content that is already on the disk but locked due to nickle-and-diming protocol.

You're not fooling ANYONE.

The download for this DLC is over 600 mbs. I saw it myself.

You did? Great!  I shall stand corrected on the KB/MBs! That stil doesn't change a thing, buddy. You and I both know that this crap is already on the disk, they just want you to fork over that extra sheep-money.

Proof?

[Commdor]

Ghost-621 wrote...

Commdor wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

EA/Bioware, you guys are so freakin' full of crap. Oh my goodness...you guys are so freakin' full of it.

You didn't "just finish" with this DLC. It was known about ever since the EA monkeys accidentally leaked "the prothean" during E3 2011.

Here a just a few other ways that I can prove you are lying out of your butt.

Zaeed was a day-one release, much like From Ashes, and it was free.

When the download for From Ashes is only a few KBs, it will prove that we are not downloading extra content, but a code that unlocks content that is already on the disk but locked due to nickle-and-diming protocol.

You're not fooling ANYONE.

The download for this DLC is over 600 mbs. I saw it myself.

You did? Great!  I shall stand corrected on the KB/MBs! That stil doesn't change a thing, buddy. You and I both know that this crap is already on the disk, they just want you to fork over that extra sheep-money.

I don't really buy into conspiracies like that. They assume people are smarter than they really are.

[Travie]

rainasa wrote...

Travie wrote..
It was announced AS DLC 7 months ago. 

They made it with the express purpose of selling it seperately instead of including it in the game.

They wanted to make money on it, and they are still pawning it off like its some happy coincidence that we get some extra content.

If they would just be honest about it people wouldn't get so riled up.

what timeline actually looks like is more along the lines of

• the first leaked script of ME3 is released in a blaze of glory across the internet, it included javick, the prothean as a major plot point.

• somewhere between the first and second leaked scripts javick is removed completely from the story, probably due to a combination of time restraints and sup par story telling

[*]

• instead of simply removing javick from the entire game they plan for him to be an optional squad mate and decide to release him with the CE and as DLC and only beging working on his mission untill after they filed for certification.

If there wasn't a 6 month delay and this wasn't released on day ONE, I might agree with you.

As things stand and if they are given every possible benefit of the doubt (which they in no way deserve) then they still should do what they did in the past and release it as free DLC.

[WizenSlinky0]

wrdnshprd wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

<snip>

Your opinion is that the full experience requires the Prothean. If it's important to you, you have the option to buy it. The fact is, not everyone will feel that way. Some people have even expressed happiness that it will be DLC because they can avoid buying it, due to the fact that they don't even really want the Prothean to be a part of their story. No, I'm not making this up. There were a couple posts to this effect within all the hate of this thread somewhere. Something about elementary school story-telling and it being unnecessary, etc. I'm not all that stoked about it because from the people who read the story leaks, they have said it's not that important to the plot. So he'll be a walking codex I'll talk to a few times and unless he has badass abilities, he won't even be in my squad most of the time.

Multiplayer on the other hand, is a BLAST. I had very mediocre expectations but it's incredibly fun, especially with friends. If I had to choose between the Prothean or MP being in the main game or being DLC (or not making it into the game at all), I'd take MP every time. I will get hundreds of hours of enjoyment out of it, whereas the Prothean is non-essential to finishing my 4 Sheps.

let me ask you this.. would you be ok if they made Ashley or Liara the day 1 DLC instead of 'from ashes'?  if not, whats the difference? 

the fact that they have been an intregal part of the storyline since ME1?  so have the protheans. 

the fact that you developed your character around ashley/liara?  in a way you can say the same things about the protheans.  all you have to do is go back to shephard's first mssion in ME1 to see why this would be the case.

my point is, what content is, and is not important is subjective.  some may think the prothean is vital, some may care more about their ashley/liara storyline.   however, when you release a game and advertise it as a complete product.. you should actually release it as a complete product.  and when you exclude a certain piece of that content from a portion of your customer base in order to monetize it, you are going to upset customers.

i would have thought bioware would be above such things.  unfortunately, since warden's keep, im beginning to see that i was wrong.

No, the protheans were never an integral part. What the protheans left behind was integral to ME1 and only ME1. Vigil wrapped up everything you needed to know about the protheans. Everything else is walking codex information.

The games NEVER set up the protheans to be a huge deal in the end. Honestly, I'd have been surprised if they had given him more of a role. Still wouldn't really have cared but would be surprised.

Ashley and Liara have been actively involved with the storyline of the reapers which is the key storyline of ME3. The protheans are only passively involved with the storyline and therefore non-integral. However, would I care if they were DLC instead? Not really. I'd buy it anyway.

Now...here's the thing. It really doesn't matter if you think he's vital to the story. Doesn't even matter if I think he's vital. What matters is that Bioware obviously decided he wasn't vital or else he wouldn't be DLC. You can't cut a vital part of a game out and have it make sense. It's not possible. 

This whole ME3 is incomplete stuff makes no sense even IF if you don't believe Bioware's explanation. It can't be incomplete unless you believe a game having any DLC at all, at any time, makes it "Incomplete" without it. It's only incomplete if it's important to the game. Bioware purposely made him so he isn't. Therefore, it is not incomplete.

[woods26]

Ghost-621 wrote...

Commdor wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

EA/Bioware, you guys are so freakin' full of crap. Oh my goodness...you guys are so freakin' full of it.

You didn't "just finish" with this DLC. It was known about ever since the EA monkeys accidentally leaked "the prothean" during E3 2011.

Here a just a few other ways that I can prove you are lying out of your butt.

Zaeed was a day-one release, much like From Ashes, and it was free.

When the download for From Ashes is only a few KBs, it will prove that we are not downloading extra content, but a code that unlocks content that is already on the disk but locked due to nickle-and-diming protocol.

You're not fooling ANYONE.

The download for this DLC is over 600 mbs. I saw it myself.

You did? Great!  I shall stand corrected on the KB/MBs! That stil doesn't change a thing, buddy. You and I both know that this crap is already on the disk, they just want you to fork over that extra sheep-money.

If I give you 10$ American, how many sheep dollars does that get me?

Modifié par woods26, 24 février 2012 - 05:13 .

[nepaliguru]

wrdnshprd wrote...

let me ask you this.. would you be ok if they made Ashley or Liara the day 1 DLC instead of 'from ashes'?  if not, whats the difference? 

the fact that they have been an intregal part of the storyline since ME1?  so have the protheans. 

the fact that you developed your character around ashley/liara?  in a way you can say the same things about the protheans.  all you have to do is go back to shephard's first mssion in ME1 to see why this would be the case.

my point is, what content is, and is not important is subjective.  some may think the prothean is vital, some may care more about their ashley/liara storyline.   however, when you release a game and advertise it as a complete product.. you should actually release it as a complete product.  and when you exclude a certain piece of that content from a portion of your customer base in order to monetize it, you are going to upset customers.

i would have thought bioware would be above such things.  unfortunately, since warden's keep, im beginning to see that i was wrong.

There is an incredibly large difference between THE Protheans and A Prothean. Treating them as the same is not helping your argument.

[Squallypo]

DJBare wrote...

Squallypo wrote...
you know that is not true... and this is not ending any time soon and dont expect that to happen until EA/bioware makes an official announcement of this being for free for everyone.

I know "some" will stick to their word and boycott, but I also know after reading the comments both here and other places many will not be truly boycotting, they won't have purchased but they will be playing the game.

ah but just because they will be playing it by other way doesnt mean they will be *paying* for it which is the same as boycott

[PSUHammer]

Acidrain92 wrote...

When you really read between the lines, this whole debacle is no different than every other DLC ploy in the business.

That is my entire point.  And, it happens in other industries, as well.

[Daywalker315]

Travie wrote...

msmpsn wrote...

Travie wrote...



It was announced AS DLC 7 months ago. 

They made it with the express purpose of selling it seperately instead of including it in the game.

They wanted to make money on it, and they are still pawning it off like its some happy coincidence that we get some extra content.

If they would just be honest about it people wouldn't get so riled up.

And they've also stated several times that it was finished AFTER the main game was finished.  What part of that are people not understanding? 

They're a business, they're want to make money. Why would they sit and twiddle their thumbs after the game has gone into certification?

Yes, its what they said. I don't believe them.

You really think they'd waste time and resources completely finishing and polishing DLC while they were working to the wire to polish the main game before certification and manufacturing? They knew they had an additional month to get the DLC ready since it only had to be ready for digital download on day 1, plus a shorter certification time. Corporations prioritize their time very well and trust me, they wouldn't have wasted their precious time before main game content-complete finishing a DLC.

[ArkkAngel007]

Acidrain92 wrote...

When you really read between the lines, this whole debacle is no different than every other DLC ploy in the business.

It isn't, and it brings both the advantages and disadvantages of such a business model.  The issue here is that they are using what they know is going to be very important to the fans on a personal level to make more money on launch.  I'm all for the devs getting higher commission pay, but this was not the best way to go about it.

[Jerjud45]

Daywalker315 wrote...

Jerjud45 wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

ok.  after seeing some more of the replies by bioware i wanted to respond.

basically bioware's justification for making this paid DLC is that the DLC team worked on it AFTER the completion of the original game, and this particular team just so happened to get everything done before launch.

well, thats all well and good.  the problem is you are giving away the DLC to a portion of the playerbase (CE buyers), and requiring the rest of us 'normal' fans to spend an extra $10.

the reason this is an issue is because the SE version of the game is advertised to be the FULL VERSION. not ME 3 lite, the FULL VERSION.  well obviously, this isnt the case is it.  we have one version of the game where ALL CONTENT is accessible (CE), and one version where it is not (SE). 

as far as im concerned, both versions should have the exact same content and be the exact same experience, with the CE having some different flavor items.  things like vanity items, artwork, soundtracks, vanity pets, social clothes, etc are all fair game when it comes to CEs. thats why it costs an extra $20.  but requiring a certain portion of the playerbase to buy actual missions/characters to get an equal experience - when the SE version is advertised to be an equal experience - is what myself and TB take issue with.

yes, TB talked at length about how he felt that this DLC took development time away from the regular game, when obviously it didnt..

however, for those that watched the vid, i hope people can infer he took even more issue with the fact that this DLC was excluded from the main game to be monetized. and sorry guys thats EXACTLY what happened. 

there is ZERO reason why this DLC couldnt have been made new game incentive.. just like Zaeed and Shale were.  but bioware/EA decided to monetize it instead.  i, for one, think that is wrong and wont be supporting future games that do this. 

I couldn't have said it any better.  The extras in a CE should be fluff and vanity only.  ME2 CE was really just fluff, armor and weapons, everyone got Zaeed for free.  Same thing should have been done for ME3.

I am not arguing that it should be free now, what's done is done and Bioware can distribute content however they want.  I am arguing that from a reputation standpoint Bioware is starting to make poor marketing choices that will inevitably drive away some of their loyal customers.  Sure, they will make more money in the short run and from an economic standpoint this is ingenious. 

However they are taking a dump on their loyal ME fans that have been around since ME1 that missed out on the CE and would actually care about this sort of thing.  These are fans that they can't afford to lose when it comes time for them to sell another DLC riddled game, as ME has been their most popular series.  They may even be losing SWTOR subscriptions over this, and that game has enough content problems driving people away as it is.

I miss the days of proper expansions, this DLC bs is getting out of hand.

You don't get to decide what SHOULD be in a CE. It's their game. If they want to put fluffy bunnies in their CE's, that is their prerogative.

Obviously I don't get to decide what should be in a CE, I was voicing my opinion.  As I state in the next sentence, they distribute their stuff however they want.  However as a consumer that may consider purchasing future games, my opinion matters.  Bioware has explicitly said that they base future decisions off of customer feedback, so there is my feedback.  Don't condescendingly lecture me on what I do and don't get to decide to do.

ME3 has a lot of hype and they are milking that, I get it.  As I stated, this idea is actually ingenious from a money making standpoint, which is what they are in business for to begin with.  I wouldn't be surprised if they limited the amount of CE they made just so they could charge this $10.  However those that are unhappy with it may be less likely to buy the next Bioware title because of it.  At least they are offering it to those without the CE, had it been exclusive people would have been even more pissed.

For the record I did pre order the CE, solely because I am a big ME fan and didn't know or care what was included with it.  I'm not all that pissed, I just think its a little messed up.  I don't buy games very often because I have better things to do with my time, so I don't know whether this kind of thing is standard practice or not.  I just know I have never encountered it before.  What I have always encountered until now is day one dlc being free.

[darthnick427]

Wow this thread exploded in a few hours. last time I was here it was still in the hundreds

Modifié par darthnick427, 24 février 2012 - 05:16 .

[Orange Face_]

1 day...245 pages.... "Do the words political ****-storm mean anything to you?"

[rainasa]

Squallypo wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Squallypo wrote...
you know that is not true... and this is not ending any time soon and dont expect that to happen until EA/bioware makes an official announcement of this being for free for everyone.

I know "some" will stick to their word and boycott, but I also know after reading the comments both here and other places many will not be truly boycotting, they won't have purchased but they will be playing the game.

ah but just because they will be playing it by other way doesnt mean they will be *paying* for it which is the same as boycott

good god, squallypo do you friggen want a prema ban??? this has got to be the 10th time you have alluded to piracy.
seriously, stop digging your own grave deeper.