13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Klimy]

macdadams2 wrote...

Many people with the CE are the one's complaining. Just because we have it doesn't make it right.

I agree that its not right (although as a lucky owner of CE I dont much care), I also said that Im against any such things (promo DLC, retailer DLC, like facebook DLC, kiss my boots and get DLC). 

What I find wrong is the fact that this hysteric started just now, not after we found out that CE will have DLC, but after we found out what that DLC was. 
Also whats wrong with this is that people say "its was cut out" or "it was cut out last second". The thing that was cut out last second a year ago, is nto really a last second. but instead its a planed dessision. 

[heart again]

Principles my ass. If it were really about principles then the complaining would have happened when the CE was first announced to have a character and mission that the SE would not.

[triman]

Oh I'm going to buy the game I don't think I would srvive any longer waiting and looking foward to aupcoming dlcs but unless the game is just not the same without having the char I'm not paying. Just watch the few clips on youtube

[LonnyG]

I really wanna know what the reaction will be from bioware to all of this..

[v0rt3x22]

Interesting article - why was 'Ashes' left out in the content of the CE edition? 

www.gameinformer.com/blogs/editors/b/gibryan_blog/archive/2012/02/23/mass-effect-3-collector-39-s-edition-what-a-cluster.aspx

Modifié par v0rt3x22, 24 février 2012 - 08:33 .

[Kroepoek]

LonnyG wrote...

I really wanna know what the reaction will be from bioware to all of this..

A picture says more than words, so here you go.

[Raxxman]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

Interesting article - why was 'Ashes' left out in the content of the CE edition? 

www.gameinformer.com/blogs/editors/b/gibryan_blog/archive/2012/02/23/mass-effect-3-collector-39-s-edition-what-a-cluster.aspx

Well for approximately 20 mins it was included. Then they changed their mind about the reveal.

Hence him being one of the worst kept secrets in gaming history.

[slimgrin]

Is that Ray Muzyka swimming in gambling funds?

[fropas]

Raxxman wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

Interesting article - why was 'Ashes' left out in the content of the CE edition? 

www.gameinformer.com/blogs/editors/b/gibryan_blog/archive/2012/02/23/mass-effect-3-collector-39-s-edition-what-a-cluster.aspx

Well for approximately 20 mins it was included. Then they changed their mind about the reveal.

Hence him being one of the worst kept secrets in gaming history.

Well he's DLC so how secret could he have been if he was up on the XBLA?

Modifié par fropas, 24 février 2012 - 08:40 .

[Evilelf007]

LonnyG wrote...

I really wanna know what the reaction will be from bioware to all of this..

Their reaction will be nothing.  They are getting great publicity out of this.  As I mentioned before, this issue alone has brought the game to light to some who weren't familiar and have since put in pre-orders.  They are making out like bandits because of this uproar.

Bioware wins again!

[CptBomBom00]

ever heard about conspiracy's?

[DarthSliver]

Rdubs wrote...

DarthSliver wrote...

The Prothean Squadmate was intended for CE people only but they decided to allow SE buyers to be able to get that content because they saw people didnt want to get the digital version. So to sum this up SE buyers were originally intended to miss out on the Prothean but Bioware changed their mine and decided to let SE buyers purchase it as dlc and that is why its Day 1 dlc. It was never intended to go pass the CE copy of the game.

Darth this theory makes sense prima facie but it's not strongly credible when you think about the economics.  Businesses try to make as much money as possible.  In media like this, once the development cost is incurred the most important thing is maximizing revenue.  Which means trying to tap every possible revenue source.

Let's say there was some killer content that any fan HAD to have.  If the developer limited the size of that pool, then what would happen is the physical games which came with the special unlock code would start selling at a premium and the difference between the purchase price and the second-hand sale price would be profit for the original person owning the CE.  The developer is not going to let customers make money off the content; the developer is going to see that as an untapped source of revenue and offer the content themselves.  Therefore you can be sure that Bioware all along planned to release this DLC to the general community.  If you don't believe me, look on ebay for game called "Star Trek Bridge Commander" - this game eventually stopped production, but was such a good star trek game that it now sells on ebay for more than it cost originally.  Something similar would happen over time with the CE if it was the only way to get the Prothean content, and Bioware is smart enough to grab that revenue themselves instead of it passing through customers' hands.

To be honest I got the CE version of the game and I could care less if all its digital goodies were sold as day 1 dlc which is happening with The Prothean. Good for Bioware to do that, Rocksteady did this with Arkam Asylum and Arkam City games. Only difference is Bioware didnt wait a couple months after the games release to release said content to everyone, instead they decided to release it day 1 so people could get him as soon as they get their copy if they didnt purchase the CE. Would you guys rather wait a couple months while CE owners get to enjoy this squadmate or would you want him earlier than that.  

[Rdubs]

fropas wrote...

macdadams2 wrote...

fropas wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Misses the point.  Whether the"last second" decision was made early enough to advertise it as part of the CE has nothing to do with whether or not it was developed as part of the main storyline with the intent of being sold separately as extra revenue.  Perhaps instead of using the words "cut at last second" I should have stated "planned to be cut all along", congratulations on really nailing me on an irrelevant wording issue.

No it wasn't don't lie please.

He's not lying. There was a leaked script you know.

Leaked scrpit does not reflect the final product. He is lying because he has not played the game. Yet, he claims that this character was developed as a main part of the storyline. That's called lying.

Cracks me up whenever I hear the "BETAS CHANGE LOL!!!  YUR AN IDIOT BIOWARE EVEN SAID THE BETA WAS OLD."    There are two ways to test the credibility of this argument, actually three:
1) Again, application of simple economics.  Profit maximization occurs by minimizing cost and maximizing revenue.  Once a development cost has been incurred, the only reason to re-do it is if it will create additional revenue greater than the cost to re-develop.  If Bioware knows that 1% of the fan base has read the leaked script, and that 1% is going to buy the game anyway, but to change things due to the leak is going to cost $X millions, clearly the decision will be to just let it ride as-is.  Too bad there's not a futures market like on Intrade where we can bet on a percentage of how much the actual released game will be like what was coded into the Beta.  I'm betting at least 95% will be the same.
2) We also heard "Beta is going to change" when it the leak happened back in November 2011.  Then the demo came out.  99% the same as the leak.  I was betting 95% so I was wrong.  In the "Escape from Earth" scene I think only Anderson had one line of dialogue that was different.  Again remember it is addtional development cost, time, programming and VA hassle to record new lines.
3) Other times leaks have happened and the PR people have tried to do damage control saying "It's all going to change."  Again in just about every case of this the final product is 95% of what was seen.  At the end of the day it is simple economics which drives decisions to change things and rarely do the economics work out in a manner where drastic changes are positive NPV moves.

[Genshie]

Fix1o0 wrote...

LonnyG wrote...

I really wanna know what the reaction will be from bioware to all of this..

A picture says more than words, so here you go.

In other words they are not too concerned about the issue. In the long this uproar won't do anything. They know about this issue but they most likely won't be doing anything about it and if they do it won't be the thing most people (who are upset over this) will be thinking they would do.

[ScorpioProX]

Pre orderd the CE edition.
But the prothean is just BS. All the ppl with CE saying well everyone should pay for it because I did as well are missing the point completely. You CE buyers did not pay for this. Our money went not to making this awesome new character it went towards cutting it out neatly so they can sell it back to us.

Being happy about that is just being stupid. If the CE edition rewarded us with EXTRA dlc then they would have offered something like “the first dlc pack for free with all CE editions”. Not day one dlc! Day one dlc is just bad form. And no I can’t prove anything. Because they could have done it honestly and actually spend extra money making this character/mission. But come on its EA.

Fighting your fellow consumers over the scrap you been told was extra special for you is just sad and exactly what they wanted.

But at least you feel extra special because you are one of the first Lemmings!

[DeadLetterBox]

I don't mind paying more for more content. Unless that content is Pinnacle Station, of course.

I thought ME2 stood alone. The Shadow Broker DLC made it better. It contributed to the storyline, which I think it should have done, since I paid to get it and therefore would like for it to matter to the story.

I don't feel that I deserve to get DLC for free any more than I deserve to get the game for free. I don't feel like ME2 was incomplete without the DLC, although the DLC added a lot to it. Had the DLC never been released, I would not have felt that I was missing anything. Zaeed is a neat character but not necessary to the story. Even LotSB, while it adds a lot to the story of Liara, is not really necessary for the story of Shepard beating the collectors to be told.

I really don't think it's fair for us to expect that a company won't want to make a profit. Sometimes it just sounds like you're upset with the company for making something you want and then having the audacity to charge you for it. I think iPods are way too expensive for what they are, so even though they are really a nice MP3 player I buy the cheaper ones. I don't think it's fair my cable company wants to charge me extra for HD versions of broadcast channels, so I do without the HD (and will probably be doing without the cable pretty soon because it irritates me that they want to charge for that.) So, if you don't think the money they want to charge is fair, you can either pay it anyway, or do without the thing you want. This isn't unique to EA or the gaming industry.

[Zeenof]

Pro-dlc: No, you're wrong, and I'm right. Now here's a wall of text to support my claim that will have no baring on your opinion; because it's next to impossible to actually change someone's mind on a particular subject so quickly and in such an assertive manner.

Didn't work? Well, "F*ck you! You're still wrong!"

Anti-dlc: No, you're wrong, and I'm right. Now here's a wall of text to support my claim that will have no baring on your opinion; because it's next to impossible to actually change someone's mind on a particular subject so quickly and in such an assertive manner.

Didn't work? Well, "F*ck you! You're still wrong!"

I'm not sure I can believe that anyone in this thread actually still knows which side they're on, who they're arguing against, what they're arguing for, who's on their side, or, dare I say, what this is all about. Both sides have degenerated to basically spewing the same vitriol with slightly different wording and cursing one another. This has long stopped being a debate, and even a Drama. It's gone through Comedy, and stopped at ridiculousness.

Slightly entertaining though.

[macdadams2]

Rdubs wrote...

fropas wrote...

macdadams2 wrote...

fropas wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Misses the point.  Whether the"last second" decision was made early enough to advertise it as part of the CE has nothing to do with whether or not it was developed as part of the main storyline with the intent of being sold separately as extra revenue.  Perhaps instead of using the words "cut at last second" I should have stated "planned to be cut all along", congratulations on really nailing me on an irrelevant wording issue.

No it wasn't don't lie please.

He's not lying. There was a leaked script you know.

Leaked scrpit does not reflect the final product. He is lying because he has not played the game. Yet, he claims that this character was developed as a main part of the storyline. That's called lying.

Cracks me up whenever I hear the "BETAS CHANGE LOL!!!  YUR AN IDIOT BIOWARE EVEN SAID THE BETA WAS OLD."    There are two ways to test the credibility of this argument, actually three:
1) Again, application of simple economics.  Profit maximization occurs by minimizing cost and maximizing revenue.  Once a development cost has been incurred, the only reason to re-do it is if it will create additional revenue greater than the cost to re-develop.  If Bioware knows that 1% of the fan base has read the leaked script, and that 1% is going to buy the game anyway, but to change things due to the leak is going to cost $X millions, clearly the decision will be to just let it ride as-is.  Too bad there's not a futures market like on Intrade where we can bet on a percentage of how much the actual released game will be like what was coded into the Beta.  I'm betting at least 95% will be the same.
2) We also heard "Beta is going to change" when it the leak happened back in November 2011.  Then the demo came out.  99% the same as the leak.  I was betting 95% so I was wrong.  In the "Escape from Earth" scene I think only Anderson had one line of dialogue that was different.  Again remember it is addtional development cost, time, programming and VA hassle to record new lines.
3) Other times leaks have happened and the PR people have tried to do damage control saying "It's all going to change."  Again in just about every case of this the final product is 95% of what was seen.  At the end of the day it is simple economics which drives decisions to change things and rarely do the economics work out in a manner where drastic changes are positive NPV moves.

All this is true, however whatever effects it has on their reputation will effect the economics of future tites. Well, that remains to be seen, but occasionally consumers do use their power.

[fropas]

Rdubs wrote...

fropas wrote...

macdadams2 wrote...

fropas wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Misses the point.  Whether the"last second" decision was made early enough to advertise it as part of the CE has nothing to do with whether or not it was developed as part of the main storyline with the intent of being sold separately as extra revenue.  Perhaps instead of using the words "cut at last second" I should have stated "planned to be cut all along", congratulations on really nailing me on an irrelevant wording issue.

No it wasn't don't lie please.

He's not lying. There was a leaked script you know.

Leaked scrpit does not reflect the final product. He is lying because he has not played the game. Yet, he claims that this character was developed as a main part of the storyline. That's called lying.

Cracks me up whenever I hear the "BETAS CHANGE LOL!!!  YUR AN IDIOT BIOWARE EVEN SAID THE BETA WAS OLD."    There are two ways to test the credibility of this argument, actually three:
1) Again, application of simple economics.  Profit maximization occurs by minimizing cost and maximizing revenue.  Once a development cost has been incurred, the only reason to re-do it is if it will create additional revenue greater than the cost to re-develop.  If Bioware knows that 1% of the fan base has read the leaked script, and that 1% is going to buy the game anyway, but to change things due to the leak is going to cost $X millions, clearly the decision will be to just let it ride as-is.  Too bad there's not a futures market like on Intrade where we can bet on a percentage of how much the actual released game will be like what was coded into the Beta.  I'm betting at least 95% will be the same.
2) We also heard "Beta is going to change" when it the leak happened back in November 2011.  Then the demo came out.  99% the same as the leak.  I was betting 95% so I was wrong.  In the "Escape from Earth" scene I think only Anderson had one line of dialogue that was different.  Again remember it is addtional development cost, time, programming and VA hassle to record new lines.
3) Other times leaks have happened and the PR people have tried to do damage control saying "It's all going to change."  Again in just about every case of this the final product is 95% of what was seen.  At the end of the day it is simple economics which drives decisions to change things and rarely do the economics work out in a manner where drastic changes are positive NPV moves.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. This script wasn't even from a beta, it was just leaked from data mining. I don't know anything about the stuff you're talking about, but you were lying before and no one was calling you out on it, so I spoke up. Sorry all your beta talk just sounds like BS.

Modifié par fropas, 24 février 2012 - 08:47 .

[Yuoaman]

Zeenof wrote...

Pro-dlc: No, you're wrong, and I'm right. Now here's a wall of text to support my claim that will have no baring on your opinion; because it's next to impossible to actually change someone's mind on a particular subject so quickly and in such an assertive manner.

Didn't work? Well, "F*ck you! You're still wrong!"

Anti-dlc: No, you're wrong, and I'm right. Now here's a wall of text to support my claim that will have no baring on your opinion; because it's next to impossible to actually change someone's mind on a particular subject so quickly and in such an assertive manner.

Didn't work? Well, "F*ck you! You're still wrong!"

I'm not sure I can believe that anyone in this thread actually still knows which side they're on, who they're arguing against, what they're arguing for, who's on their side, or, dare I say, what this is all about. Both sides have degenerated to basically spewing the same vitriol with slightly different wording and cursing one another. This has long stopped being a debate, and even a Drama. It's gone through Comedy, and stopped at ridiculousness.

Slightly entertaining though.

I haven't posted any walls of text and the closest I've come to outright insults was a mildly sarcastic remark a few dozen pages back.

[Rdubs]

Klimy wrote...

Did I miss anything?
But Michael Gamble said what was known for months: CE will have DLC that will not be in NE. That was the reason many of us went after CE. And now when people found out what DLC that was, everyone started a rage-pidemic of why its not in their copy of the game.

Cut it out people, if you wanted that DLC so much, then you had to be loud almost a year ago rather than wait for the last week.

If anyone will go about "oh, but this is not how others do", then yeah it is. Many games include additional missions in CE that can be bought separately in NE (for example Deus Ex).

Personally Im against any promotional DLC and such, but when we all know about something almost a year ahead and dont do anything until we find out how cool that thing is and only then start bashing things in a last minute, thats just pathetic.

This is not the correct fact pattern.  People did not find out what the "extra" content was and then rage because it wasn't included and they could only get it from having bought the CE.  This "extra" content was OFFERED without any demand from the customer base.  And your tu quoque is irrelevant because those "additional missions" do not involve a character who is basically legend and lore of the game's universe.

[Sique Foque]

This whole "From Ashes"-business is pretty shady in my eyes; come on, Bioware " developed by a separate team", "not completed until well after the main game went into certification", really?

If your managing a project you are well aware what content you are goingt to work on and we are talking about a character who is essential to the main story line, it is a Prothean! You know that EVERYONE wants that Prothean, because it means a great deal to the story, even if it is just a sidequest.

It was certainly not like you were surprised someone developed the DLC in your company ("Wait! Someone made a Prothean? Oh damn, but the whole game is already finished! What sould we do? Uhm yeah, just sell it for 10 dollars."), it was even already planned for the CE.

So even if the content wasn't done in time for certification, you should have made it for free as a courtesy to your fans. At least for some weeks or something. Not everyone was able to get the preorder for the Collector's Edition in time. And the price is way too high!

This is just coldly calculated on your and on EA's part. It reminds me of the business practice of Activision concerning Modern Warfare.

I even had the luck of preordering the CE, but now I have a bad taste in my mouth...

Modifié par Sique Foque, 24 février 2012 - 08:53 .

[DeadLetterBox]

Sique Foque wrote...

You know that EVERYONE wants that Prothean, because it means a great deal to the story, even if it is just a sidequest. 

Why would they make DLC they didn't think people would want?

[Rdubs]

Rip504 wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Your definition of DLC applies to true DLC.  If it's something that was planned in the game all along and was developed as part of them game, then cut at the last second because somebody figured out "hey just about anybody who likes this game would pay money for this to have a complete story", then that's not DLC.  That's critical game content being sold as DLC.

No the Prothean is obviously not critcal to ME3's story. Therefor enhances ME3.

Trollzilla.  LOL.

[fropas]

ScorpioProX wrote...

Pre orderd the CE edition.
But the prothean is just BS. All the ppl with CE saying well everyone should pay for it because I did as well are missing the point completely. You CE buyers did not pay for this. Our money went not to making this awesome new character it went towards cutting it out neatly so they can sell it back to us.

Being happy about that is just being stupid. If the CE edition rewarded us with EXTRA dlc then they would have offered something like “the first dlc pack for free with all CE editions”. Not day one dlc! Day one dlc is just bad form. And no I can’t prove anything. Because they could have done it honestly and actually spend extra money making this character/mission. But come on its EA.

Fighting your fellow consumers over the scrap you been told was extra special for you is just sad and exactly what they wanted.

But at least you feel extra special because you are one of the first Lemmings!

this was "extra content" promised to CE consumers. . .


see the part that says "additional downloadable Mission & Characters"? I don't care if you think I'm a lemming. You're the one who is misinformed. I'm paying for more content and SE consumers shouldn't get that same content for less money. . .that's just my opinion.