13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Genshie]

jpzgoku wrote...

People who support and defend companies who have first day DLC are just as bad, maybe worse, than these companies.

These companies obviously want to make more money and pulling content and charging $10 extra, essentially making the game $70. Consumers who support this are freely giving up their rights as a consumer and are encouraging companies to continue these practices.

It is your choice to buy the dlc. No one is forcing you to buy the dlc. The game itself can start and end without the need of this dlc. You are making it sound like you are being forced to buy it which is untrue. Stop trying to make a pitty party out of something that isn't even forced upon you.

[Blarty]

I should be surprised this debate has got to over 250 pages, but as it's BSN I'm not.

The facts are, as been said many times, a) everyone knew that there would be extra characters and missions in the CE and have known for a long time, so this is not a surprise, c) that the extra mission and character are being released (for a fee) by Bioware for people who were unable to get the CE and d) Bioware did not have to release this at all to non-CE buyers.

Although I can certainly understand peoples frustration regarding the choice of character, (surprisingly it would have been completely ok for it to be an inconsequential numb nuts of a character that you could then whinge about that being $10 because the character is pointless and not worth $10, rather than essential in your eyes, whilst being blind to the fact that either a supposedly important or pointless character are both optional to the story, gameplay and ability to complete the game satisfactorily), I also cannot subscribe to these heavy-handed rebukes at a company which has to pay people, make a profit and have that profit invested in the future of the franchise - do you work for free because someone tells you you should? - and also rebukes at people who are willing to buy DLC purchase on day 1 or otherwise.

And whilst you are all on your high horses shouting 'Pre-order cancelled', 'Last Bioware/EA game I'm going to buy', or 'I'll pirate it, and get it all free and you can have no money'.... but I bet you'd change your mind if the mob rule wins and they give you the Prothean for free... - think about this ... do you pull this kind of c r a p to the guy behind the counter when a shop offer finishes and you can no longer get 2 for 1, for instance? You may not like the Day 1 DLC, and I myself am certainly not a fan of it so I believe it is somewhat morally grey in that I can see both sides of the opinion, but the kind of thing many of you are doing is tantamount to holding the company to ransom and more or less threats to blackmail - that might seem a little strong but hey.

First of all I don't care about this true fans bought the CE BS - there are many true fans that could not afford or have access to CE - hell, I've got 2 on order with GAME and I still have no idea whether they'll actually be there to be picked up on release day. What I do believe is if you are seriously pulling these kind of tricks over a $10 optional DLC (and no, I don't care if it's a Prothean - nobody markets stuff for purchase that no-one wants - and people whose experience of Mass Effect is only through the PS3 really don't have the Prothean connection that ME1 players have) then it really is pretty low (and on a par with how low you think Bioware and EA are being), and in that sense no you're not even a reasonable fan of the franchise.... if you don't want to buy the optional DLC then by all means abstain - throwing your toys out of the pram over this is utterly incredulous, and how the people shouting about piracy and pre-order cancellations can have the audacity and unmitigated gall to wrap ransoming a company up in the concept of it being 'on principle' disgusts me.

And this is coming from someone who is getting 2 CE's and will also have to buy two extra MP passes and 2 extra Prothean DLCs on top of that.

Modifié par Blarty, 24 février 2012 - 09:30 .

[fropas]

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...



I've said over and over and over again: Collector Edition of Comics have extra panels. Collector Edition of Movies have uncut material. Why can't Collector Edition of Games not have additional content to play with that's not on regular editions.

 

The only people who would see this as a huge character are long-time fans of the series. It's free in the edition for long-time fans.

I agree with you on most of this, but it isn't fair to imply that people who didn't order the CE are not long-time fans.

you make a good point I'd be open to players, who take a "Sheperd" from ME1-ME3, getting the prothy for free.  but since we don't even get an achievement for this--it won't happen. But you're right everyone who buys the game is a fan pretty much. . .I just think all fans should pay for extra content--or I should get another "additional character" I was promised for buying a CE.

[foo man chew]

jpzgoku wrote...

People who support and defend companies who have first day DLC are just as bad, maybe worse, than these companies.

These companies obviously want to make more money and pulling content and charging $10 extra, essentially making the game $70. Consumers who support this are freely giving up their rights as a consumer and are encouraging companies to continue these practices.

Perfect

[Exia001]

Xellana wrote...

Exia001 wrote...

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Xellana wrote...

The only people defending this are the people who preordered the CE and feel special now, because nothing changes for them while everybody else gets screwed.

I don't feel special for pre-ordering the CE.  I pre-ordered that because I wanted it.  I just don't feel like you're getting screwed.  I paid extra for the CE, a lot of people think I'm a sucker for that, but one reason I decided to do that was knowing things would be included that affected the game.  

Exactly its not like the CE has been sprung upon you, you knew it was coming for half a year or more if you didn't get it thats your hard luck at least its being offered to you

That´s exactly what I mean. I have yet to find one person who thinks that this is okay, that has NOT already the CE preordered.
I just don´t think it´s okay to split the fanbase that way, in the sense that the CE get a "bigger" game than the rest. Artbooks, Soundtrack, physical Items, Cosmetic ingame-items etc etc all okay, but not actual relevant game content.

A bigger game because of...One character, sorry that doesnt make sense...Or are you talking about the mission too?

IF BW had said we are not giving you the content at all then I would be annoyed but they are not doing that

Modifié par Exia001, 24 février 2012 - 09:30 .

[nightcobra]

Xellana wrote...

Exia001 wrote...

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Xellana wrote...

The only people defending this are the people who preordered the CE and feel special now, because nothing changes for them while everybody else gets screwed.

I don't feel special for pre-ordering the CE.  I pre-ordered that because I wanted it.  I just don't feel like you're getting screwed.  I paid extra for the CE, a lot of people think I'm a sucker for that, but one reason I decided to do that was knowing things would be included that affected the game.  

Exactly its not like the CE has been sprung upon you, you knew it was coming for half a year or more if you didn't get it thats your hard luck at least its being offered to you

That´s exactly what I mean. I have yet to find one person who thinks that this is okay, that has NOT already the CE preordered.
I just don´t think it´s okay to split the fanbase that way, in the sense that the CE get a "bigger" game than the rest. Artbooks, Soundtrack, physical Items, Cosmetic ingame-items etc etc all okay, but not actual relevant game content.

that's why they put the DLC as a feature in the CE edition even though it was free of charge according to their own words. they've warped what a collector's edition should be by adding free in-game story content in order to entice people who would never buy a CE edition in the first place  (skins/weapons/armors are acceptable as they are cosmetical in nature)   

[Rdubs]

Amikae wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

heart again wrote...

Principles my ass. If it were really about principles then the complaining would have happened when the CE was first announced to have a character and mission that the SE would not.

AMEN....

Back then we didn't think that character would be much of a big deal. But this is a big deal and it is cut from the game on purpose.

THIS.  It's the difference between missing out on Zaeed versus missing out on a character ten times as important as Legion.

[Kreidian]

Amikae wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

heart again wrote...

Principles my ass. If it were really about principles then the complaining would have happened when the CE was first announced to have a character and mission that the SE would not.

AMEN....

Back then we didn't think that character would be much of a big deal. But this is a big deal and it is cut from the game on purpose.

It was not cut from the game on purpose. It is not part of the main game. It is optional content.

You keep saying something that is blatantly false as if it were fact.

It's not. Stop it.

[DarthSliver]

jpzgoku wrote...

People who support and defend companies who have first day DLC are just as bad, maybe worse, than these companies.

These companies obviously want to make more money and pulling content and charging $10 extra, essentially making the game $70. Consumers who support this are freely giving up their rights as a consumer and are encouraging companies to continue these practices.

Are you can just use logic and these people need to make money just like you and I to live a happy life. You also dont live in the real world either because its a known fact money makes the world spin. 

[DeadLetterBox]

Xellana wrote...


That´s exactly what I mean. I have yet to find one person who thinks that this is okay, that has NOT already the CE preordered.
I just don´t think it´s okay to split the fanbase that way, in the sense that the CE get a "bigger" game than the rest. Artbooks, Soundtrack, physical Items, Cosmetic ingame-items etc etc all okay, but not actual relevant game content.

I think people who don't have a problem with this kind of thing are more likely to pre-order the CE.  I know that I have gotten into... debates with my husband over whether it is worth it to spend extra on essentially the same game to get, say, a lunchbox and a bobble head.  When they include content as part of the CE I think they are trying to get people like me to order the CE.  In my case it worked.

I can see your point about day one content, but I just don't feel that because it comes out early it must be essential.  I don't feel like because it sounds cool it must be essential.  I'm still mad that because we only bought one copy of ME2 for our house only one of us could get the Cerberus Daily News, but this doesn't bother me.

[DifferentD17]

Blarty wrote...

I should be surprised this debate has got to over 250 pages, but as it's BSN I'm not.

The facts are, as been said many times, a) everyone knew that there would be extra characters and missions in the CE and have known for a long time, so this is not a surprise, c) that the extra mission and character are being released (for a fee) by Bioware for people who were unable to get the CE and d) Bioware did not have to release this at all to non-CE buyers.

Although I can certainly understand peoples frustration regarding the choice of character, (surprisingly it would have been completely ok for it to be an inconsequential numb nuts of a character that you could then whinge about that being $10 because the character is pointless and not worth $10, rather than essential in your eyes, whilst being blind to the fact that either a supposedly important or pointless character are both optional to the story, gameplay and ability to complete the game satisfactorily), I also cannot subscribe to these heavy-handed rebukes at a company which has to pay people, make a profit and have that profit invested in the future of the franchise - do you work for free because someone tells you you should? - and also rebukes at people who are willing to buy DLC purchase on day 1 or otherwise.

And whilst you are all on your high horses shouting 'Pre-order cancelled', 'Last Bioware/EA game I'm going to buy', or 'I'll pirate it, and get it all free and you can have no money'.... but I bet you'd change your mind if the mob rule wins and they give you the Prothean for free... - think about this ... do you pull this kind of c r a p to the guy behind the counter when a shop offer finishes and you can no longer get 2 for 1, for instance? You may not like the Day 1 DLC, and I myself am certainly not a fan of it so I believe it is somewhat morally grey in that I can see both sides of the opinion, but the kind of thing many of you are doing is tantamount to holding the company to ransom and more or less threats to blackmail - that might seem a little strong but hey.

First of all I don't care about this true fans bought the CE BS - there are many true fans that could not afford or have access to CE - hell, I've got 2 on order with GAME and I still have no idea whether they'll actually be there to be picked up on release day. What I do believe is if you are seriously pulling these kind of tricks over a $10 optional DLC (and no, I don't care if it's a Prothean - nobody markets stuff for purchase that no-one wants - and people whose experience of Mass Effect is only through the PS3 really don't have the Prothean connection that ME1 players have) then it really is pretty low (and on a par with how low you think Bioware and EA are being), and in that sense no you're not even a reasonable fan of the franchise.... if you don't want to buy the optional DLC then by all means abstain - throwing your toys out of the pram over this is utterly incredulous, and how the people shouting about piracy and pre-order cancellations can have the audacity and unmitigated gall to wrap ransoming a company up in the concept of it being 'on principle' disgusts me.

And this is coming from someone who is getting 2 CE's and will also have to buy two extra MP passes and 2 extra Prothean DLCs on top of that.

I didn't know, they flip floped about a DLC character and they even removed it from every product page on every retail site. I didn't know that because you know everyone must know.

[jpzgoku]

Genshie wrote...

jpzgoku wrote...

People who support and defend companies who have first day DLC are just as bad, maybe worse, than these companies.

These companies obviously want to make more money and pulling content and charging $10 extra, essentially making the game $70. Consumers who support this are freely giving up their rights as a consumer and are encouraging companies to continue these practices.

It is your choice to buy the dlc. No one is forcing you to buy the dlc. The game itself can start and end without the need of this dlc. You are making it sound like you are being forced to buy it which is untrue. Stop trying to make a pitty party out of something that isn't even forced upon you.

You are obviously missing the point. The full game now costs $70, mostly because we consumers are allowing this to happen.

[DeadLetterBox]

Amikae wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...
I'm saying, fans here are looking at it in a way that is so hypocritical, it's sickening....

What's sickening is that you don't seem to get it. Game companies are starting to milk us and you don't care. In the past good game companies made good games and sold a complete game. These days you see them cut content on purpose to sell it. If you can't see the problem here, you're in trouble.

www.youtube.com/watch

Every company on the face of the planet is milking us.  When companies get taxpayer subsidies, double the price of their product, and make record profits while complaining that their industry is in trouble I get mad.  When a company charges ten dollars for DLC I just decide whether I'm going to buy it or not.  

[Beefcake9000]

Kreidian wrote...


It was not cut from the game on purpose. It is not part of the main game. It is optional content.

3/4 of ME2 was 'optional' content.

[Amikae]

Kreidian wrote...

Amikae wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

heart again wrote...

Principles my ass. If it were really about principles then the complaining would have happened when the CE was first announced to have a character and mission that the SE would not.

AMEN....

Back then we didn't think that character would be much of a big deal. But this is a big deal and it is cut from the game on purpose.

It was not cut from the game on purpose. It is not part of the main game. It is optional content.

You keep saying something that is blatantly false as if it were fact.

It's not. Stop it.

I don't care if it was planned as a DLC. It was created before launch, so to me as a customer, it was cut from the game. So I did all I could to send a message to EA/BioWare, I cancelled.

[Blarty]

DifferentD17 wrote...

Blarty wrote...

I should be surprised this debate has got to over 250 pages, but as it's BSN I'm not.

The facts are, as been said many times, a) everyone knew that there would be extra characters and missions in the CE and have known for a long time, so this is not a surprise, c) that the extra mission and character are being released (for a fee) by Bioware for people who were unable to get the CE and d) Bioware did not have to release this at all to non-CE buyers.

Although I can certainly understand peoples frustration regarding the choice of character, (surprisingly it would have been completely ok for it to be an inconsequential numb nuts of a character that you could then whinge about that being $10 because the character is pointless and not worth $10, rather than essential in your eyes, whilst being blind to the fact that either a supposedly important or pointless character are both optional to the story, gameplay and ability to complete the game satisfactorily), I also cannot subscribe to these heavy-handed rebukes at a company which has to pay people, make a profit and have that profit invested in the future of the franchise - do you work for free because someone tells you you should? - and also rebukes at people who are willing to buy DLC purchase on day 1 or otherwise.

And whilst you are all on your high horses shouting 'Pre-order cancelled', 'Last Bioware/EA game I'm going to buy', or 'I'll pirate it, and get it all free and you can have no money'.... but I bet you'd change your mind if the mob rule wins and they give you the Prothean for free... - think about this ... do you pull this kind of c r a p to the guy behind the counter when a shop offer finishes and you can no longer get 2 for 1, for instance? You may not like the Day 1 DLC, and I myself am certainly not a fan of it so I believe it is somewhat morally grey in that I can see both sides of the opinion, but the kind of thing many of you are doing is tantamount to holding the company to ransom and more or less threats to blackmail - that might seem a little strong but hey.

First of all I don't care about this true fans bought the CE BS - there are many true fans that could not afford or have access to CE - hell, I've got 2 on order with GAME and I still have no idea whether they'll actually be there to be picked up on release day. What I do believe is if you are seriously pulling these kind of tricks over a $10 optional DLC (and no, I don't care if it's a Prothean - nobody markets stuff for purchase that no-one wants - and people whose experience of Mass Effect is only through the PS3 really don't have the Prothean connection that ME1 players have) then it really is pretty low (and on a par with how low you think Bioware and EA are being), and in that sense no you're not even a reasonable fan of the franchise.... if you don't want to buy the optional DLC then by all means abstain - throwing your toys out of the pram over this is utterly incredulous, and how the people shouting about piracy and pre-order cancellations can have the audacity and unmitigated gall to wrap ransoming a company up in the concept of it being 'on principle' disgusts me.

And this is coming from someone who is getting 2 CE's and will also have to buy two extra MP passes and 2 extra Prothean DLCs on top of that.

I didn't know, they flip floped about a DLC character and they even removed it from every product page on every retail site. I didn't know that because you know everyone must know.

They didn't say which character it would be, there were no details but they have said, since the details of the CE were announced that there would be a 'Bonus Squadmate and Mission' included with the CE

[jpzgoku]

DarthSliver wrote...

jpzgoku wrote...

People who support and defend companies who have first day DLC are just as bad, maybe worse, than these companies.

These companies obviously want to make more money and pulling content and charging $10 extra, essentially making the game $70. Consumers who support this are freely giving up their rights as a consumer and are encouraging companies to continue these practices.

Are you can just use logic and these people need to make money just like you and I to live a happy life. You also dont live in the real world either because its a known fact money makes the world spin. 

What?

[Kevin Lozandier]

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...



I've said over and over and over again: Collector Edition of Comics have extra panels. Collector Edition of Movies have uncut material. Why can't Collector Edition of Games not have additional content to play with that's not on regular editions.

 

The only people who would see this as a huge character are long-time fans of the series. It's free in the edition for long-time fans.

I agree with you on most of this, but it isn't fair to imply that people who didn't order the CE are not long-time fans.

You're right; 'only' was a poor choice of words. The content however is best fit for the Collector's Edition. The notion of it being a 'major' character is borderline mornic if you haven't played the game, nor even know the tone and use of Protheans in the plot that led to why they felt he shouldn't be in the core experience.

To be honest it makes sense for the following reasons:

• PS3 owners don't have access to Mass Effect 1. They won't be able to fully appreciate Eden Prime, a Prothean and etc. Some aspects of gameplay and lore just could not be felt from ME Genesis that came with ME2 PS3 edition.
• If it was cut or felt not a genuine effort to put him in the core version of the game, the Collector's Edition is a perfect home for him and the fact that long-time fans of ME that would appreciate him (there is a demand of people who always wanted to play with a Prothean squadmate) would most likely be purchasers of this edition, it only make sense it's in the Collector's edition. 
• It helps makes the CE does what a Collector's Edition should do in the gaming medium that other CE do not. Added value in the aspect in which you bought it for: to interact with. 

[Rdubs]

fropas wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

fropas wrote...

ScorpioProX wrote...

Pre orderd the CE edition.
But the prothean is just BS. All the ppl with CE saying well everyone should pay for it because I did as well are missing the point completely. You CE buyers did not pay for this. Our money went not to making this awesome new character it went towards cutting it out neatly so they can sell it back to us.

Being happy about that is just being stupid. If the CE edition rewarded us with EXTRA dlc then they would have offered something like “the first dlc pack for free with all CE editions”. Not day one dlc! Day one dlc is just bad form. And no I can’t prove anything. Because they could have done it honestly and actually spend extra money making this character/mission. But come on its EA.

Fighting your fellow consumers over the scrap you been told was extra special for you is just sad and exactly what they wanted.

But at least you feel extra special because you are one of the first Lemmings!

this was "extra content" promised to CE consumers. . .


see the part that says "additional downloadable Mission & Characters"? I don't care if you think I'm a lemming. You're the one who is misinformed. I'm paying for more content and SE consumers shouldn't get that same content for less money. . .that's just my opinion.

The timing of when they made the decision to sell the Prothy as an extra is irrelevant.  It could have been made the very first day of ME3's development.  The issue here is the principle of PREMEDITATEDLY taking a character who is such an important part of the ME lore and making him extra, full well knowing that any big ME fan would want that character to be part of their ME experience.  Think of it like this: One could easily make the argument that in ME2, Legion was not an integral part of the story and the game could have been considered complete without him (albeit at a lower "bar").  Yet I don't know anyone who doesn't think of Legion as an awesome part of their ME2 experience.  It would be as if Bioware decided, hey let's weave in a Geth squadmate into the ME2 story while we develop the game but then pull him so we can offer him as extra content.  Again you can complete the game without him/it, but how would you feel if Bioware had hit you up for an extra $10 so you could have an even better experience?

Well since we're talking about purely hypothtical bucks here I'd be fine with it. They could charge me 1,000,000 hypothetical dollars. In make believe land where Legion wasn't released on the disc.

Um, it's called a comparison, trying to use an experience you've already had to feel how it would have been different if the fact pattern was the same as the one currently being discussed.  But hey, if trying to dismiss it because it's a hypothetical helps you feel like you've adequately rebutted the point, good for you.  GLWT.

[fropas]

Rdubs wrote...

fropas wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

fropas wrote...

Whoa, whoa, whoa. This script wasn't even from a beta, it was just leaked from data mining. I don't know anything about the stuff you're talking about, but you were lying before and no one was calling you out on it, so I spoke up. Sorry all your beta talk just sounds like BS.

If you don't know anything about the stuff I'm talking about, please read up on it then before you provide commentary about it.  Here's a freebee. 
www.vg247.com/2011/11/05/internal-beta-for-mass-effect-3-accidentally-leaked-through-xbl-fall-preview/

And here is something that talks about how the script was pulled from this version.  Not a version from years ago.  Smart Russians.
http://www.gamespot....ust-been-leaked

But none of these people are even affliated with BW. So why would I believe any of them?

Their speculations are no more illuminating, on the descision making process behind this day-one DLC, than your own. I'm sorry you made descisions based on information from a PRIVATE beta. . .that was probably unwise. 

Ah yes, I'm sure Bioware spent time and development cost creating a special version of the Beta just for a select audience which was different from the main version they were developing.  Thinking that, now that would be unwise.

Flash: Magazines like Game Informer aren't affiliated with Bioware either.  Does that mean when they publish a story you shouldn't read it because it is not an official Bioware press release?  

 I never played it and I won't make my crtical descisions of ME3 based on what it "should" be. You can speculate all you want--and no I wouldn't trust Game Informer unless a BW representative was interviewed. . .then i would trust the interviewee, not the interviewer.

[heart again]

Rdubs wrote...

Amikae wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

heart again wrote...

Principles my ass. If it were really about principles then the complaining would have happened when the CE was first announced to have a character and mission that the SE would not.

AMEN....

Back then we didn't think that character would be much of a big deal. But this is a big deal and it is cut from the game on purpose.

THIS.  It's the difference between missing out on Zaeed versus missing out on a character ten times as important as Legion.

So because the character might not be as pointless as you ASSUMED they owe it to you?

[fropas]

Rdubs wrote...

Um, it's called a comparison, trying to use an experience you've already had to feel how it would have been different if the fact pattern was the same as the one currently being discussed.  But hey, if trying to dismiss it because it's a hypothetical helps you feel like you've adequately rebutted the point, good for you.  GLWT.

I'm not dismissing you, I'm telling you flat out, I'd be willing to spend 10$ on Legion if he was "extra content for ME2.

Modifié par fropas, 24 février 2012 - 09:39 .

[DeadLetterBox]

heart again wrote...


So because the character might not be as pointless as you ASSUMED they owe it to you?

lol.

[DJBare]

Just a reminder
Javik is in the full game, the DLC adds a mission and the option to have him join the squad.

[DifferentD17]

Blarty wrote...


They didn't say which character it would be, there were no details but they have said, since the details of the CE were announced that there would be a 'Bonus Squadmate and Mission' included with the CE

If it's not on the product pages, I don't expect it to be in the product simple as that. They didn't make it clear and they made it more confusing by giving vague answers. Don't tell me just because it's detail in one image and one video for ME3 am suppose to have seen one of those 2 things out of 100s.