13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Exia001]

Amikae wrote...

Kreidian wrote...

Amikae wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

heart again wrote...

Principles my ass. If it were really about principles then the complaining would have happened when the CE was first announced to have a character and mission that the SE would not.

AMEN....

Back then we didn't think that character would be much of a big deal. But this is a big deal and it is cut from the game on purpose.

It was not cut from the game on purpose. It is not part of the main game. It is optional content.

You keep saying something that is blatantly false as if it were fact.

It's not. Stop it.

I don't care if it was planned as a DLC. It was created before launch, so to me as a customer, it was cut from the game. So I did all I could to send a message to EA/BioWare, I cancelled.

I am still amazed that people canceling their pre-order are doing something....You're not, the only one missing out is you. Not, Bioware not EA, not other gamers, you.

[Sique Foque]

Tobey2011 wrote...

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Sique Foque wrote...

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Sique Foque wrote...

You know that EVERYONE wants that Prothean, because it means a great deal to the story, even if it is just a sidequest. 

Why would they make DLC they didn't think people would want?

We aren't talking about DLC well after release, that is the significant difference. Don't be nit-picky.

Okay, it may be a little nit-picky, I concede that point.  However, the fact that DLC is available day one does not mean that it is necessary for the game to be complete.  

Actually that is exactly what it means.

Yeah, well, but we could also discuss about how you create desire on the market and how you exploit this way too much. I think the example with Legion in ME2 someone brought up is quite accurate - great experience, not essential for the story but quite enriching.

If you cut things like that out, you are not respecting your own work, that is what I think.

Maybe they should start this with movies too, cut out side stories, demand extra money.

[DarthSliver]

DJBare wrote...

Just a reminder
Javik is in the full game, the DLC adds a mission and the option to have him join the squad.

Wait, what seriously?

[nightcobra]

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...



I've said over and over and over again: Collector Edition of Comics have extra panels. Collector Edition of Movies have uncut material. Why can't Collector Edition of Games not have additional content to play with that's not on regular editions.

 

The only people who would see this as a huge character are long-time fans of the series. It's free in the edition for long-time fans.

I agree with you on most of this, but it isn't fair to imply that people who didn't order the CE are not long-time fans.

You're right; 'only' was a poor choice of words. The content however is best fit for the Collector's Edition. The notion of it being a 'major' character is borderline mornic if you haven't played the game, nor even know the tone and use of Protheans in the plot that led to why they felt he shouldn't be in the core experience.

To be honest it makes sense for the following reasons:

• PS3 owners don't have access to Mass Effect 1. They won't be able to fully appreciate Eden Prime, a Prothean and etc. Some aspects of gameplay and lore just could not be felt from ME Genesis that came with ME2 PS3 edition. 
• If it was cut or felt not a genuine effort to put him in the core version of the game, the Collector's Edition is a perfect home for him and the fact that long-time fans of ME that would appreciate him (there is a demand of people who always wanted to play with a Prothean squadmate) would most likely be purchasers of this edition, it only make sense it's in the Collector's edition. 
• It helps makes the CE does what a Collector's Edition should do in the gaming medium that other CE do not. Added value in the aspect in which you bought it for: to interact with. 

i really have a problem with the bolded part, it's like treating us as if we were blind or living under a rock for a while, quite a lot of the ps3 fanbase knew what it was getting into, a lot of us watched playthroughs, played the 36/pc version at a friend's house or employed a myriad of ways to experience the game. saying that we wouldn't be able to appreciate it just makes me irk.

[*]

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 24 février 2012 - 09:42 .

[Xellana]

Exia001 wrote...

Xellana wrote...

Exia001 wrote...

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Xellana wrote...

The only people defending this are the people who preordered the CE and feel special now, because nothing changes for them while everybody else gets screwed.

I don't feel special for pre-ordering the CE.  I pre-ordered that because I wanted it.  I just don't feel like you're getting screwed.  I paid extra for the CE, a lot of people think I'm a sucker for that, but one reason I decided to do that was knowing things would be included that affected the game.  

Exactly its not like the CE has been sprung upon you, you knew it was coming for half a year or more if you didn't get it thats your hard luck at least its being offered to you

That´s exactly what I mean. I have yet to find one person who thinks that this is okay, that has NOT already the CE preordered.
I just don´t think it´s okay to split the fanbase that way, in the sense that the CE get a "bigger" game than the rest. Artbooks, Soundtrack, physical Items, Cosmetic ingame-items etc etc all okay, but not actual relevant game content.

A bigger game because of...One character, sorry that doesnt make sense...Or are you talking about the mission too?

IF BW had said we are not giving you the content at all then I would be annoyed but they are not doing that

Yep, I´m also talking about the mission.
But that´s the point isn´t it? People who already bought the CE are saying to bioware: "I loved your games very much and am gladly willing to pay more than a regular full-price-title for ME3 to support you". And I don´t think there ist anything wrong with that. I also did buy a CE of one game one time. That´s totally legit.
And if you are willing to pay more, then I understand that you have a hard time understanding why everyone is complaining.

It´s exactly the people who don´t want to pay more than a regular full-price-title for the game who are complaining. They feel it is injust that they pay full price, but don´t get the same game as the CE people. Unless they are willing to pay more than full price. And I think that concern is totally legit too.

[Rdubs]

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

The only people who would see this as a huge character are long-time fans of the series. It's free in the edition for long-time fans.

This is not correct.  Many long-time fans did not buy the CE.  Of those who did not, some didn't because they didn't care about the hoodie or dog and figured - like most - that the extra DLC was going to be another Zaeed. 

[DeadLetterBox]

DifferentD17 wrote...

Blarty wrote...


They didn't say which character it would be, there were no details but they have said, since the details of the CE were announced that there would be a 'Bonus Squadmate and Mission' included with the CE

If it's not on the product pages, I don't expect it to be in the product simple as that. They didn't make it clear and they made it more confusing by giving vague answers. Don't tell me just because it's detail in one image and one video for ME3 am suppose to have seen one of those 2 things out of 100s.

I actively sought out information about the CE before I decided if I wanted to spend extra money on it.  Just saying.

[Kevin Lozandier]

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Amikae wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...
I'm saying, fans here are looking at it in a way that is so hypocritical, it's sickening....

What's sickening is that you don't seem to get it. Game companies are starting to milk us and you don't care. In the past good game companies made good games and sold a complete game. These days you see them cut content on purpose to sell it. If you can't see the problem here, you're in trouble.

www.youtube.com/watch

Every company on the face of the planet is milking us.  When companies get taxpayer subsidies, double the price of their product, and make record profits while complaining that their industry is in trouble I get mad.  When a company charges ten dollars for DLC I just decide whether I'm going to buy it or not.  

Absolutely true. If some of you knew the Gross Profit Margin that businesses get off customers for the simplest of things, especially companies like Apple, you would be singing a different tune. 

Even if I brush aside the rationale I have had, relatively speaking this CE is by far a better package than most DLC and CE out there, is it not? Heck, it's of better value than their previous DLC, their previous Collector's Editions. 

You speak your voice with your dollars, but based on other practices in the industry, I have rewarded Bioware with my money for being relatively better than the industry as far as a Collector's Edition worth buying, a franchise that did not feel like everything else that's out there, and DLC that is more valuable than other efforts that are out there.... 

There is no excess demand out there for this franchise; so if you want your cancellations or stuff like decrying such efforts by gaming companies, voice your opinions in creative but efficient ways.

And at least be consistent. I felt that some of you aren't like with this case as it's been over 9 months now we knew a CE was going to have additional content that SE would not have... only thing that's changed is that they're giving an option for SE buyers  to have..... They're sacrificing the value of CE actually with that but it's understandable for the love of the fans and smart business-wise..

Modifié par Kevin Lozandier, 24 février 2012 - 09:47 .

[Kroepoek]

Exia001 wrote...

Amikae wrote...

Kreidian wrote...

Amikae wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

heart again wrote...

Principles my ass. If it were really about principles then the complaining would have happened when the CE was first announced to have a character and mission that the SE would not.

AMEN....

Back then we didn't think that character would be much of a big deal. But this is a big deal and it is cut from the game on purpose.

It was not cut from the game on purpose. It is not part of the main game. It is optional content.

You keep saying something that is blatantly false as if it were fact.

It's not. Stop it.

I don't care if it was planned as a DLC. It was created before launch, so to me as a customer, it was cut from the game. So I did all I could to send a message to EA/BioWare, I cancelled.

I am still amazed that people canceling their pre-order are doing something....You're not, the only one missing out is you. Not, Bioware not EA, not other gamers, you.

You are so wrong. First of all, the person saves ~70 bucks. Secondly, he can watch a playthrough for free on YouTube. EA/DLCware loses out on ~70 bucks.

On top of that he could get the game by other means and it still won't cost him a penny and by doing so EA/DLCWare still loses out on ~70 bucks.

Modifié par Fix1o0, 24 février 2012 - 09:45 .

[Amikae]

heart again wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Amikae wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

heart again wrote...

Principles my ass. If it were really about principles then the complaining would have happened when the CE was first announced to have a character and mission that the SE would not.

AMEN....

Back then we didn't think that character would be much of a big deal. But this is a big deal and it is cut from the game on purpose.

THIS.  It's the difference between missing out on Zaeed versus missing out on a character ten times as important as Legion.

So because the character might not be as pointless as you ASSUMED they owe it to you?

No one owes nothing to me. They sell something and I decide if I will buy it or not. Cheap moves like this convinced a long time BioWare fan to not buy their game. I guess it means nothing to them, but if I was at BioWare HQ, I would have been bothered by the fact, that I insult the long time fans and supporters of my games. I guess they don't care, because of that, I will play their game for free. I won't be bothered to wait untill the 9th, or deal with Origin. So I guess I win?

Modifié par Amikae, 24 février 2012 - 09:46 .

[Blarty]

DifferentD17 wrote...

Blarty wrote...


They didn't say which character it would be, there were no details but they have said, since the details of the CE were announced that there would be a 'Bonus Squadmate and Mission' included with the CE

If it's not on the product pages, I don't expect it to be in the product simple as that. They didn't make it clear and they made it more confusing by giving vague answers. Don't tell me just because it's detail in one image and one video for ME3 am suppose to have seen one of those 2 things out of 100s.

At a bare minimum this information has been available since Nov  

[DifferentD17]

DeadLetterBox wrote...

DifferentD17 wrote...

Blarty wrote...


They didn't say which character it would be, there were no details but they have said, since the details of the CE were announced that there would be a 'Bonus Squadmate and Mission' included with the CE

If it's not on the product pages, I don't expect it to be in the product simple as that. They didn't make it clear and they made it more confusing by giving vague answers. Don't tell me just because it's detail in one image and one video for ME3 am suppose to have seen one of those 2 things out of 100s.

I actively sought out information about the CE before I decided if I wanted to spend extra money on it.  Just saying.

You watched every youtube video and went to every ME website? Bravo.

[DJBare]

DarthSliver wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Just a reminder
Javik is in the full game, the DLC adds a mission and the option to have him join the squad.

Wait, what seriously?

*****SPOILERS AHEAD********
















Yeah, seems people are still not getting the memo, he is a temp in the full game, a character you meet in the course of the story, some mission on Thesia, the DLC gives you Eden Prime and makes Javik a squad member.

Modifié par DJBare, 24 février 2012 - 09:47 .

[Exia001]

Xellana wrote...

Exia001 wrote...

Xellana wrote...

Exia001 wrote...

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Xellana wrote...

The only people defending this are the people who preordered the CE and feel special now, because nothing changes for them while everybody else gets screwed.

I don't feel special for pre-ordering the CE.  I pre-ordered that because I wanted it.  I just don't feel like you're getting screwed.  I paid extra for the CE, a lot of people think I'm a sucker for that, but one reason I decided to do that was knowing things would be included that affected the game.  

Exactly its not like the CE has been sprung upon you, you knew it was coming for half a year or more if you didn't get it thats your hard luck at least its being offered to you

That´s exactly what I mean. I have yet to find one person who thinks that this is okay, that has NOT already the CE preordered.
I just don´t think it´s okay to split the fanbase that way, in the sense that the CE get a "bigger" game than the rest. Artbooks, Soundtrack, physical Items, Cosmetic ingame-items etc etc all okay, but not actual relevant game content.

A bigger game because of...One character, sorry that doesnt make sense...Or are you talking about the mission too?

IF BW had said we are not giving you the content at all then I would be annoyed but they are not doing that

Yep, I´m also talking about the mission.
But that´s the point isn´t it? People who already bought the CE are saying to bioware: "I loved your games very much and am gladly willing to pay more than a regular full-price-title for ME3 to support you". And I don´t think there ist anything wrong with that. I also did buy a CE of one game one time. That´s totally legit.
And if you are willing to pay more, then I understand that you have a hard time understanding why everyone is complaining.

It´s exactly the people who don´t want to pay more than a regular full-price-title for the game who are complaining. They feel it is injust that they pay full price, but don´t get the same game as the CE people. Unless they are willing to pay more than full price. And I think that concern is totally legit too.

I am greatful that you are being civil, thank you.

But isn't the poiont of a CE that it is not the same game as an SE, the ONLY reason I brought CE so fast was because I wanted the Prothean

[DeadLetterBox]

Xellana wrote...

Yep, I´m also talking about the mission.
But that´s the point isn´t it? People who already bought the CE are saying to bioware: "I loved your games very much and am gladly willing to pay more than a regular full-price-title for ME3 to support you". And I don´t think there ist anything wrong with that. I also did buy a CE of one game one time. That´s totally legit.
And if you are willing to pay more, then I understand that you have a hard time understanding why everyone is complaining.

It´s exactly the people who don´t want to pay more than a regular full-price-title for the game who are complaining. They feel it is injust that they pay full price, but don´t get the same game as the CE people. Unless they are willing to pay more than full price. And I think that concern is totally legit too.

I see this point.  I don't know if this is really a CE/SE thing so much as a divide between people who think DLC is worth paying for, even if it's day one, and people who don't, either because it's day one or because they think it shouldn't cost at all.  It all boils down to whether you accept the idea that additional content can truly be additional, I think.  I think it can, many think it can't, and few of us will change our minds, probably.

[nightcobra]

DJBare wrote...

DarthSliver wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Just a reminder
Javik is in the full game, the DLC adds a mission and the option to have him join the squad.

Wait, what seriously?

*****SPOILERS AHEAD********
















Yeah, seems people are still not getting the memo, he is a temp in the full game, a character you meet in the course of the story, some mission on Thesia, the DLC gives you Eden Prime and makes Javik a squad member.

just like warden's keep then (and everyone loved that )

like i said before i wouldn't be surprised if it's handled similarly to this:

*shepard talks to prothean*

             
                                                                                                       Let's go then (please buy the DLC to access this option)

      so what do you want to do at Eden prime?         ()

                                                                                                      I should go... 

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 24 février 2012 - 09:50 .

[DifferentD17]

Blarty wrote...

DifferentD17 wrote...

If it's not on the product pages, I don't expect it to be in the product simple as that. They didn't make it clear and they made it more confusing by giving vague answers. Don't tell me just because it's detail in one image and one video for ME3 am suppose to have seen one of those 2 things out of 100s.

At a bare minimum this information has been available since Nov  

On that one Youtube video. Why isn't it clearly on product pages? And why is it fine print on the only image on Biowares website?

[SeroRamaiX]

Reading some of the posts here at the end and such, I had a thought pop up in my mind that I haven't seen yet...

Has anyone stopped to think that at least Bioware gave SE buyers a chance to get the prothean? Because what if you could ONLY get the character with the CE...? I pre-ordered my CE back in december, just because I knew there would be limited supplies, and im a die-hard Mass Effect fan.

But atleast bioware is giving people a chance to get the character, rather then just giving it only to the CE preorders.

Now excuse me. I have to go hide inside my flame bunker for the incoming attacks.

[Kreidian]

Amikae wrote...

Kreidian wrote...

Amikae wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

heart again wrote...

Principles my ass. If it were really about principles then the complaining would have happened when the CE was first announced to have a character and mission that the SE would not.

AMEN....

Back then we didn't think that character would be much of a big deal. But this is a big deal and it is cut from the game on purpose.

It was not cut from the game on purpose. It is not part of the main game. It is optional content.

You keep saying something that is blatantly false as if it were fact.

It's not. Stop it.

I don't care if it was planned as a DLC. It was created before launch, so to me as a customer, it was cut from the game. So I did all I could to send a message to EA/BioWare, I cancelled.

Wow, the leap in logic there is just so ...


... I'm just gonna put this here and be done with it.

[Xellana]

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Xellana wrote...


That´s exactly what I mean. I have yet to find one person who thinks that this is okay, that has NOT already the CE preordered.
I just don´t think it´s okay to split the fanbase that way, in the sense that the CE get a "bigger" game than the rest. Artbooks, Soundtrack, physical Items, Cosmetic ingame-items etc etc all okay, but not actual relevant game content.

I think people who don't have a problem with this kind of thing are more likely to pre-order the CE.  I know that I have gotten into... debates with my husband over whether it is worth it to spend extra on essentially the same game to get, say, a lunchbox and a bobble head.  When they include content as part of the CE I think they are trying to get people like me to order the CE.  In my case it worked.

I can see your point about day one content, but I just don't feel that because it comes out early it must be essential.  I don't feel like because it sounds cool it must be essential.  I'm still mad that because we only bought one copy of ME2 for our house only one of us could get the Cerberus Daily News, but this doesn't bother me.

So they got you to order the CE (which you maybe wouldn´t have if the extra game content wouldn´t have been there). Did I unterstand that correctly?

If that´s the case it is exactly what I´m talking about. They got you to pay more for the game than you otherwise would have. They practically made the game more expensive (either you have to buy the CE or the DLC, if you want the whole game content). This is what the people who are complaining here don´t want to tolerate.

[Rdubs]

I can't help it, all of this discussion about "the game is complete even without this major lore and backstory character in it, who was designed to be in it all along" is exactly the ridiculousness from Spinal Tap.  Here is the relevant discussion.

[Guitar player talking to sound system salesman]:
[Salesman]: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...
[Guitarist]: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?
[Salesman]: Exactly.
[Guitarist]: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder?
[Salesman]: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?
[Guitarist]: I don't know.
[Salesman]: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
[Guitarist]: Put it up to eleven.
[Salesman]: Eleven. Exactly. One louder.
[Guitarist]: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?
[Salesman]: [pause] These go to eleven.

There you go, this entire discussion can be summarized by the above.  People who defend Bioware in this are saying the story goes to 10 with an option to go to 11.  People who are pissed are saying the 11 is really what should be considered a 10.

[AkiKishi]

Everyone should have access to the same GAME on release if they buy new.

By GAME I'm refering to digital content. Whatever else they throw in the pack like patches,art books etc. That's fine , as long as everyone gets the same digital experience they can throw a bar of gold in there for all I care.

The idea that somehow buying a CE makes you a better fan is disgusting and repugnant. Just because I own the CE of DX and and an addition copy to play does not make me better than anyone else. For a Bioware employee to say or imply such is beyond belief.

The reason I did not get the CE is simple. Bioware screwed up with DA2 I'm not rewarding that screwup.

[whitey4444]

Does anybody know if this character appears in the base game at all?

Say, the character appears in a few missions in the base game only. But with the DLC, there's an extra mission and he becomes your squadmate.

Or is he only there in the game with the DLC?

See I can live with the former, because then there is critical storyline content in all versions of the game. If so, then having it as DLC release is not necessarily as dodgy as I previously though (even if the Zaeed system was better).

[DJBare]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

just like warden's keep then (and everyone loved that )

Not at all, there is a mission with Javik in the full game, I'm not saying anymore, feeling a tad uncomfortable about spilling anything more.

Modifié par DJBare, 24 février 2012 - 09:51 .

[fropas]

Rdubs wrote...

I can't help it, all of this discussion about "the game is complete even without this major lore and backstory character in it, who was designed to be in it all along" is exactly the ridiculousness from Spinal Tap.  Here is the relevant discussion.

[Guitar player talking to sound system salesman]:
[Salesman]: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...
[Guitarist]: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?
[Salesman]: Exactly.
[Guitarist]: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder?
[Salesman]: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?
[Guitarist]: I don't know.
[Salesman]: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
[Guitarist]: Put it up to eleven.
[Salesman]: Eleven. Exactly. One louder.
[Guitarist]: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?
[Salesman]: [pause] These go to eleven.

There you go, this entire discussion can be summarized by the above.  People who defend Bioware in this are saying the story goes to 10 with an option to go to 11.  People who are pissed are saying the 11 is really what should be considered a 10.

No I know SE doesn't go to 11. I think SE consumers should pay 10$ for their ME3 to go to the same level as my 80$ purchase.