13369 réponses à ce sujet

[heart again]

Amikae wrote...

heart again wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Amikae wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

heart again wrote...

Principles my ass. If it were really about principles then the complaining would have happened when the CE was first announced to have a character and mission that the SE would not.

AMEN....

Back then we didn't think that character would be much of a big deal. But this is a big deal and it is cut from the game on purpose.

THIS.  It's the difference between missing out on Zaeed versus missing out on a character ten times as important as Legion.

So because the character might not be as pointless as you ASSUMED they owe it to you?

No one owes nothing to me. They sell something and I decide if I will buy it or not. Cheap moves like this convinced a long time BioWare fan to not buy their game. I guess it means nothing to them, but if I was at BioWare HQ, I would have been bothered by the fact, that I insult the long time fans and supporters of my games. I guess they don't care, because of that, I will play their game for free. I won't be bothered to wait untill the 9th, or deal with Origin. So I guess I win?

I'm a long time fan (you know, back when there was only one console to play ME on, or back when KoToR came out if I want to get technical) and I don't feel offended.  But then again, when I PO'd the CE I knew just about exactly what I was paying for.  People had a long time to do something about this.

[Koju737]

DJBare wrote...

Just a reminder
Javik is in the full game, the DLC adds a mission and the option to have him join the squad.

Seriously??? I assume you got this from the leak? (I didnt read the script)
If so.... HAHAHAHAHA. Oh man that is gold. All this bickering and ****ing for something thats in the main game anyways!!! When people realize this.... that will be hilarious.  Not that all this entitlement nonsense will go away...
However, that means whatever major plot this character brings will happen regardless... and all the bonus stuff like the Eden Prime mission, having him as a squadmate, the alt appearance packs and weapon are truly extras. What is there to cry about now?

[DeadLetterBox]

Xellana wrote...

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Xellana wrote...


That´s exactly what I mean. I have yet to find one person who thinks that this is okay, that has NOT already the CE preordered.
I just don´t think it´s okay to split the fanbase that way, in the sense that the CE get a "bigger" game than the rest. Artbooks, Soundtrack, physical Items, Cosmetic ingame-items etc etc all okay, but not actual relevant game content.

I think people who don't have a problem with this kind of thing are more likely to pre-order the CE.  I know that I have gotten into... debates with my husband over whether it is worth it to spend extra on essentially the same game to get, say, a lunchbox and a bobble head.  When they include content as part of the CE I think they are trying to get people like me to order the CE.  In my case it worked.

I can see your point about day one content, but I just don't feel that because it comes out early it must be essential.  I don't feel like because it sounds cool it must be essential.  I'm still mad that because we only bought one copy of ME2 for our house only one of us could get the Cerberus Daily News, but this doesn't bother me.

So they got you to order the CE (which you maybe wouldn´t have if the extra game content wouldn´t have been there). Did I unterstand that correctly?

If that´s the case it is exactly what I´m talking about. They got you to pay more for the game than you otherwise would have. They practically made the game more expensive (either you have to buy the CE or the DLC, if you want the whole game content). This is what the people who are complaining here don´t want to tolerate.

You understand correctly.  A company offered me something for a higher price.  To encourage me to purchase it at that higher price, they wanted to make sure it was something I wanted.  Because I did want it, I paid the extra money and bought it.  This isn't really against my principles.  I want value for my money, I feel like I'm getting it.

[nightcobra]

fropas wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

I can't help it, all of this discussion about "the game is complete even without this major lore and backstory character in it, who was designed to be in it all along" is exactly the ridiculousness from Spinal Tap.  Here is the relevant discussion.

[Guitar player talking to sound system salesman]:
[Salesman]: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...
[Guitarist]: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?
[Salesman]: Exactly.
[Guitarist]: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder?
[Salesman]: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?
[Guitarist]: I don't know.
[Salesman]: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
[Guitarist]: Put it up to eleven.
[Salesman]: Eleven. Exactly. One louder.
[Guitarist]: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?
[Salesman]: [pause] These go to eleven.

There you go, this entire discussion can be summarized by the above.  People who defend Bioware in this are saying the story goes to 10 with an option to go to 11.  People who are pissed are saying the 11 is really what should be considered a 10.

No I know SE doesn't go to 11. I think SE consumers should pay 10$ for their ME3 to go to the same level as my 80$ purchase.

you purchased the collectibles, not the DLC even if that was your intention in the first place.

[idlehandZ]

jpzgoku wrote...

Genshie wrote...

jpzgoku wrote...

People who support and defend companies who have first day DLC are just as bad, maybe worse, than these companies.

These companies obviously want to make more money and pulling content and charging $10 extra, essentially making the game $70. Consumers who support this are freely giving up their rights as a consumer and are encouraging companies to continue these practices.

It is your choice to buy the dlc. No one is forcing you to buy the dlc. The game itself can start and end without the need of this dlc. You are making it sound like you are being forced to buy it which is untrue. Stop trying to make a pitty party out of something that isn't even forced upon you.

You are obviously missing the point. The full game now costs $70, mostly because we consumers are allowing this to happen.

People living in the Southeast Asia region, like me, are least affected. The SE will be sold here for only about $35. I still believe though that the prothean character+mission is not worth paying extra since the original experience would definitely not be the same without it and the fact that it will also be available on day 1 justifies it.

[PeaRLoFJaM]

By Christmas 2013 there will be companies selling a "base" game for $60, or an "all DLC included "free" " game for $80-100. When/if that strategy works, the "base" game will get smaller and smaller and the DLC will get larger and more essential to whatever the game type might be. Welcom to the future of the industry, a la carte style!

[Blarty]

DifferentD17 wrote...


On that one Youtube video. Why isn't it clearly on product pages? And why is it fine print on the only image on Biowares website?

That youtube video comes from here http://masseffect.bi...out/collectors/ when you click on the image -  I used youtube version so I could use the &t= url parameter to direct you straigh tto the bit where it mentions Bonus Mission

Modifié par Blarty, 24 février 2012 - 10:00 .

[Kevin Lozandier]

jpzgoku wrote...

Genshie wrote...

jpzgoku wrote...

People who support and defend companies who have first day DLC are just as bad, maybe worse, than these companies.

These companies obviously want to make more money and pulling content and charging $10 extra, essentially making the game $70. Consumers who support this are freely giving up their rights as a consumer and are encouraging companies to continue these practices.

It is your choice to buy the dlc. No one is forcing you to buy the dlc. The game itself can start and end without the need of this dlc. You are making it sound like you are being forced to buy it which is untrue. Stop trying to make a pitty party out of something that isn't even forced upon you.

You are obviously missing the point. The full game now costs $70, mostly because we consumers are allowing this to happen.

No, no, and NO. You don't have to. Collector Edition has extras that are perhaps worthwhile to some, while it isn't others. How Shepard Story ends with the full game is the canon everyone has an opportunity to experience and what is what is wanted for most to experience. Experiences with the use of extras, such as Normandy Avatar props throughout the player's journey to beat the game is a value only the player can make. Not me and and not you. 

The truth is that the backlash only proves to me that Bioware made a worthwhile Collector's Edition to purchase. I honestly can't say other games have had CE this good in a long time and create such buzz... The only one I can remember was when I bought Witcher's DLC and was amazed by the quality...

[LonnyG]

Now I have a question for all the people that are angry at bioware... If they would've bring the DLC two weeks after the launch of the game would you all be angry aswell? Because you would of know that it was finished before the launch of the game because the CE owners would have it at the day of launch...

[Kevin Lozandier]

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Xellana wrote...

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Xellana wrote...


That´s exactly what I mean. I have yet to find one person who thinks that this is okay, that has NOT already the CE preordered.
I just don´t think it´s okay to split the fanbase that way, in the sense that the CE get a "bigger" game than the rest. Artbooks, Soundtrack, physical Items, Cosmetic ingame-items etc etc all okay, but not actual relevant game content.

I think people who don't have a problem with this kind of thing are more likely to pre-order the CE.  I know that I have gotten into... debates with my husband over whether it is worth it to spend extra on essentially the same game to get, say, a lunchbox and a bobble head.  When they include content as part of the CE I think they are trying to get people like me to order the CE.  In my case it worked.

I can see your point about day one content, but I just don't feel that because it comes out early it must be essential.  I don't feel like because it sounds cool it must be essential.  I'm still mad that because we only bought one copy of ME2 for our house only one of us could get the Cerberus Daily News, but this doesn't bother me.

So they got you to order the CE (which you maybe wouldn´t have if the extra game content wouldn´t have been there). Did I unterstand that correctly?

If that´s the case it is exactly what I´m talking about. They got you to pay more for the game than you otherwise would have. They practically made the game more expensive (either you have to buy the CE or the DLC, if you want the whole game content). This is what the people who are complaining here don´t want to tolerate.

You understand correctly.  A company offered me something for a higher price.  To encourage me to purchase it at that higher price, they wanted to make sure it was something I wanted.  Because I did want it, I paid the extra money and bought it.  This isn't really against my principles.  I want value for my money, I feel like I'm getting it.

AMEN. 

[whitey4444]

DJBare wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

just like warden's keep then (and everyone loved that )

Not at all, there is a mission with Javik in the full game, I'm not saying anymore, feeling a tad uncomfortable about spilling anything more.

Oh ok, answers my question

I've changed my mind, somewhat. While I still think that EA/Bioware were onto a good idea with Cerberus network, which this should have fit under, this makes some sense at least, and can fit with what they are saying.

[jpzgoku]

SeroRamaiX wrote...

Reading some of the posts here at the end and such, I had a thought pop up in my mind that I haven't seen yet...

Has anyone stopped to think that at least Bioware gave SE buyers a chance to get the prothean? Because what if you could ONLY get the character with the CE...? I pre-ordered my CE back in december, just because I knew there would be limited supplies, and im a die-hard Mass Effect fan.

But atleast bioware is giving people a chance to get the character, rather then just giving it only to the CE preorders.

Now excuse me. I have to go hide inside my flame bunker for the incoming attacks.

You do not understand the problem. If we, the consumers, were smart we would have never allowed the notion of witholding content that was available at launch from the game, for an extra fee, to be an acceptable practice. Buying first day DLC and buying CE editions of games for the purpose of getting extra content is allowing companies to fragment thier games, essentially making the game cost more than $60. $70 in this case, and it will only get worse in the future because we are allowing companies to get away with it.

[LGTX]

It's not in the game. They managed to stash in some spare code and VO for the DLC in the vanilla disc before it went gold, but the majority of the work was done after the game went to certification. Both Mike and Casey explained this many times. From this point on, it's a simple case of believing their word.

[fropas]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

fropas wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

I can't help it, all of this discussion about "the game is complete even without this major lore and backstory character in it, who was designed to be in it all along" is exactly the ridiculousness from Spinal Tap.  Here is the relevant discussion.

[Guitar player talking to sound system salesman]:
[Salesman]: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...
[Guitarist]: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?
[Salesman]: Exactly.
[Guitarist]: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder?
[Salesman]: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?
[Guitarist]: I don't know.
[Salesman]: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
[Guitarist]: Put it up to eleven.
[Salesman]: Eleven. Exactly. One louder.
[Guitarist]: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?
[Salesman]: [pause] These go to eleven.

There you go, this entire discussion can be summarized by the above.  People who defend Bioware in this are saying the story goes to 10 with an option to go to 11.  People who are pissed are saying the 11 is really what should be considered a 10.

No I know SE doesn't go to 11. I think SE consumers should pay 10$ for their ME3 to go to the same level as my 80$ purchase.

you purchased the collectibles, not the DLC even if that was your intention in the first place.

I purchased everything in the N7 CE not just the collectibles. EVERYTHING. if I was only getting exclusive collectibles I never would have pre-ordered a CE

[Xellana]

Exia001 wrote...

I am greatful that you are being civil, thank you.

But isn't the poiont of a CE that it is not the same game as an SE, the ONLY reason I brought CE so fast was because I wanted the Prothean

No, I think this is what causes the uproar. I have never seen a CE where there is relevant (I don´t mean "essential by that") game content. Additional missions, something like that. CE were always about getting something cosmetic, something gimmiky (a statue or an USB-Stick), the soundtrack, a poster or something like that. Not additional game content.

[Exia001]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Everyone should have access to the same GAME on release if they buy new.

By GAME I'm refering to digital content. Whatever else they throw in the pack like patches,art books etc. That's fine , as long as everyone gets the same digital experience they can throw a bar of gold in there for all I care.

The idea that somehow buying a CE makes you a better fan is disgusting and repugnant. Just because I own the CE of DX and and an addition copy to play does not make me better than anyone else. For a Bioware employee to say or imply such is beyond belief.

The reason I did not get the CE is simple. Bioware screwed up with DA2 I'm not rewarding that screwup.

Ergo, you shouldnt get Prothy, BW will probably 'Screw that up too' You dont want to invest because BW are screws yet you want the Prothean?...What?

[Rdubs]

Kreidian wrote...

Wow, the leap in logic there is just so ...


... I'm just gonna put this here and be done with it.

Pretty graphic which misses the point, still misses the point.  The issue isn't development cycles - the issue is about what is considered "premium day 1 DLC."   People are pissed because a character as critical to the lore of the ME experience should be part of the basic game, not hocked as "optional" DLC full well knowing that anyone who likes the story would feel obligated to buy the DLC or miss out on key parts of the story.

[Severyx]

Sucks that it got leaked. Was really looking forward to the surprise.

Either way, I can't wait to get my CE. This is going to be awesome. At least I feel like I'll definitely have gotten my $$-worth out of this box. Whiners be darned.

[DeadLetterBox]

LonnyG wrote...

Now I have a question for all the people that are angry at bioware... If they would've bring the DLC two weeks after the launch of the game would you all be angry aswell? Because you would of know that it was finished before the launch of the game because the CE owners would have it at the day of launch...

Everyone got access to LotSB on the same day, well after launch, and people were furious then, too, so...  yeah, I'm thinking most people who are mad now would have been mad under those circumstances.

[AkiKishi]

LonnyG wrote...

Now I have a question for all the people that are angry at bioware... If they would've bring the DLC two weeks after the launch of the game would you all be angry aswell? Because you would of know that it was finished before the launch of the game because the CE owners would have it at the day of launch...

Yes having 2 versions of the game is wrong.

All new versions of the game should be the same simple as that.

[Kevin Lozandier]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...



I've said over and over and over again: Collector Edition of Comics have extra panels. Collector Edition of Movies have uncut material. Why can't Collector Edition of Games not have additional content to play with that's not on regular editions.

 

The only people who would see this as a huge character are long-time fans of the series. It's free in the edition for long-time fans.

I agree with you on most of this, but it isn't fair to imply that people who didn't order the CE are not long-time fans.

You're right; 'only' was a poor choice of words. The content however is best fit for the Collector's Edition. The notion of it being a 'major' character is borderline mornic if you haven't played the game, nor even know the tone and use of Protheans in the plot that led to why they felt he shouldn't be in the core experience.

To be honest it makes sense for the following reasons:

• PS3 owners don't have access to Mass Effect 1. They won't be able to fully appreciate Eden Prime, a Prothean and etc. Some aspects of gameplay and lore just could not be felt from ME Genesis that came with ME2 PS3 edition. 
• If it was cut or felt not a genuine effort to put him in the core version of the game, the Collector's Edition is a perfect home for him and the fact that long-time fans of ME that would appreciate him (there is a demand of people who always wanted to play with a Prothean squadmate) would most likely be purchasers of this edition, it only make sense it's in the Collector's edition. 
• It helps makes the CE does what a Collector's Edition should do in the gaming medium that other CE do not. Added value in the aspect in which you bought it for: to interact with. 

i really have a problem with the bolded part, it's like treating us as if we were blind or living under a rock for a while, quite a lot of the ps3 fanbase knew what it was getting into, a lot of us watched playthroughs, played the 36/pc version at a friend's house or employed a myriad of ways to experience the game. saying that we wouldn't be able to appreciate it just makes me irk.

[*]

It's not guaranteed that most PS3 ME2 gamers would have done so. I would think so myself, but you don't want a story in ME3 that some are like 'huh?' and HAVE to watch walkthrough videos of ME1 to make sense of a game they're playing in 2012--does that make sense? 

[LGTX]

Rdubs wrote...

Kreidian wrote...

Wow, the leap in logic there is just so ...


... I'm just gonna put this here and be done with it.

*graph snip*

Pretty graphic which misses the point, still misses the point.  The issue isn't development cycles - the issue is about what is considered "premium day 1 DLC."   People are pissed because a character as critical to the lore of the ME experience should be part of the basic game, not hocked as "optional" DLC full well knowing that anyone who likes the story would feel obligated to buy the DLC or miss out on key parts of the story.

That issue is adressed in the lower section of the graph. No matter how critical the Prothean is to the lore, it's not difficult to make him optional to the plot. Think Arrival or Shadow Broker.

Modifié par LGTX, 24 février 2012 - 09:59 .

[StElmo]

I think this is the most logical summary of this issue:

1) Bioware EA owe you nothing
2) Day one dlc reflects poorly on the standard product:
.   a) It sends a poor message to consumers that the original game will not satiate them for long
.   It seperates the initial experience between those who can afford the DLC and those who cannot and may only be scraping by with a new copy on special.
.   c) It flies against expectations of minimal significance, given the DLC is about a prothean and eden prime.
3) Bioware and EA are most certainly milking profits from this release given how ramped up the DLC content and promotion is.
4) If Bioware respected its fans, they would have given this content away for free, or delayed its release to legitimize it as DLC insignificant to the original experience.

Modifié par StElmo, 24 février 2012 - 09:59 .

[marstor05]

not sure i'd want a prothy squadmate tbh.

[nightcobra]

fropas wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

fropas wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

I can't help it, all of this discussion about "the game is complete even without this major lore and backstory character in it, who was designed to be in it all along" is exactly the ridiculousness from Spinal Tap.  Here is the relevant discussion.

[Guitar player talking to sound system salesman]:
[Salesman]: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...
[Guitarist]: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?
[Salesman]: Exactly.
[Guitarist]: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder?
[Salesman]: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?
[Guitarist]: I don't know.
[Salesman]: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
[Guitarist]: Put it up to eleven.
[Salesman]: Eleven. Exactly. One louder.
[Guitarist]: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?
[Salesman]: [pause] These go to eleven.

There you go, this entire discussion can be summarized by the above.  People who defend Bioware in this are saying the story goes to 10 with an option to go to 11.  People who are pissed are saying the 11 is really what should be considered a 10.

No I know SE doesn't go to 11. I think SE consumers should pay 10$ for their ME3 to go to the same level as my 80$ purchase.

you purchased the collectibles, not the DLC even if that was your intention in the first place.

I purchased everything in the N7 CE not just the collectibles. EVERYTHING. if I was only getting exclusive collectibles I never would have pre-ordered a CE

bioware said it themselves the DLC in the CE edition was free of charge, it's in there yes but free 

also you're right, you would have never bought the CE edition otherwise hence why bioware warped what the collector's editions should be (physical items and cosmetical digital items) and never would have gotten those extra 20$ dollars worth of collectibles from you