13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Xellana]

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Xellana wrote...

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Xellana wrote...


That´s exactly what I mean. I have yet to find one person who thinks that this is okay, that has NOT already the CE preordered.
I just don´t think it´s okay to split the fanbase that way, in the sense that the CE get a "bigger" game than the rest. Artbooks, Soundtrack, physical Items, Cosmetic ingame-items etc etc all okay, but not actual relevant game content.

I think people who don't have a problem with this kind of thing are more likely to pre-order the CE.  I know that I have gotten into... debates with my husband over whether it is worth it to spend extra on essentially the same game to get, say, a lunchbox and a bobble head.  When they include content as part of the CE I think they are trying to get people like me to order the CE.  In my case it worked.

I can see your point about day one content, but I just don't feel that because it comes out early it must be essential.  I don't feel like because it sounds cool it must be essential.  I'm still mad that because we only bought one copy of ME2 for our house only one of us could get the Cerberus Daily News, but this doesn't bother me.

So they got you to order the CE (which you maybe wouldn´t have if the extra game content wouldn´t have been there). Did I unterstand that correctly?

If that´s the case it is exactly what I´m talking about. They got you to pay more for the game than you otherwise would have. They practically made the game more expensive (either you have to buy the CE or the DLC, if you want the whole game content). This is what the people who are complaining here don´t want to tolerate.

You understand correctly.  A company offered me something for a higher price.  To encourage me to purchase it at that higher price, they wanted to make sure it was something I wanted.  Because I did want it, I paid the extra money and bought it.  This isn't really against my principles.  I want value for my money, I feel like I'm getting it.

AMEN. 

exactly Now we are at the finish line I think
Some people think that ME3 is worth paying more than standard full price games.
Other people don´t think that ME3 is worth paying more than standard full price games and see the danger that if this higher price becomes a new standard, they´ll have to pay more for every game in the future if developers and publishers realize they can get away with it. That´s why they are boycotting.

[Severyx]

Rdubs wrote...

Pretty graphic which misses the point, still misses the point.  The issue isn't development cycles - the issue is about what is considered "premium day 1 DLC."   People are pissed because a character as critical to the lore of the ME experience should be part of the basic game, not hocked as "optional" DLC full well knowing that anyone who likes the story would feel obligated to buy the DLC or miss out on key parts of the story.

Then get the DLC and feel like you've got the full experience or refuse to pay and feel like the universe is aligned to hate you.

That said, I think the people who have that mentality miss the point most of all. And a squadmate is most certainly optional. Could you get though ME2 without ever bothering to download Kasumi? You most certainly can.

Can you get through ME3 without having a Prothean squadmate? You most certainly can. It's a cool idea, but in no way 'lore critical'. That language is for entitleistic boobs who can't stand the idea of someone having something they don't have.

Modifié par Severyx, 24 février 2012 - 10:02 .

[Kevin Lozandier]

Xellana wrote...

Exia001 wrote...

I am greatful that you are being civil, thank you.

But isn't the poiont of a CE that it is not the same game as an SE, the ONLY reason I brought CE so fast was because I wanted the Prothean

No, I think this is what causes the uproar. I have never seen a CE where there is relevant (I don´t mean "essential by that") game content. Additional missions, something like that. CE were always about getting something cosmetic, something gimmiky (a statue or an USB-Stick), the soundtrack, a poster or something like that. Not additional game content.

HELL NO. That is a  crappy Collector's Edition if you ask me. And it goes back to my original premise that I'm sure I'm irking people repeating over and over again: Collector Edition of Comics have extra panels. Collector Edition of Movies have uncut material. Why can't Collector Edition of Games not have additional content to play with that's not on regular editions. 


That notion of Collector Editions are the reason why some Collector Editions of many games are still store shelves. 



 

 

[Slashice]

We're still talking about a Prothean (I repeat, a Prothean, you know the guys who made the Conduit and warned us about the Reapers so we can fight them!) squad mate that will only be available if you buy the DLC or you buy the CE and you get it for free. It's not just some cool extra squad mate like a Turian female or something like this. It's a Prothean a lore and story wise very important asset and it should be in the game originally or as a free DLC (for everyone) like we got Zaeed in ME2 as free. The only differenc was that Zaeed was a pointless character while a Prothean character is a most important character lore wise who can help us defeat the Reapers and may answer our questions about what about 50.000 years ago... That's just nonsense Bioware.

Yet I will buy CE (considering not to buy it) so I will get it but I feel bad for those who buy the SE of the game and they'll have to pay for this DLC... that's just not fair, doesn't feel right.

[AkiKishi]

Rdubs wrote...

Kreidian wrote...

Wow, the leap in logic there is just so ...


... I'm just gonna put this here and be done with it.

Pretty graphic which misses the point, still misses the point.  The issue isn't development cycles - the issue is about what is considered "premium day 1 DLC."   People are pissed because a character as critical to the lore of the ME experience should be part of the basic game, not hocked as "optional" DLC full well knowing that anyone who likes the story would feel obligated to buy the DLC or miss out on key parts of the story.

They should print that on the box and let the consumer choose whether or not they think paying for the incomplete game or not.

No where on the SE box will you find an indication that the Prothean DLC is an "extra"

I'll use the old car analogy since in this case it works.

If I buy a car I have a list of features so I know what I'm getting with each model.

So a big THIS BOX CONTAINS ADDITIONAL DAY 1 DLC THAT COSTS £10. would be required.

[DaJe]

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Amikae wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...
I'm saying, fans here are looking at it in a way that is so hypocritical, it's sickening....

What's sickening is that you don't seem to get it. Game companies are starting to milk us and you don't care. In the past good game companies made good games and sold a complete game. These days you see them cut content on purpose to sell it. If you can't see the problem here, you're in trouble.

www.youtube.com/watch

Every company on the face of the planet is milking us.  When companies get taxpayer subsidies, double the price of their product, and make record profits while complaining that their industry is in trouble I get mad.  When a company charges ten dollars for DLC I just decide whether I'm going to buy it or not.  

Absolutely true. If some of you knew the Gross Profit Margin that businesses get off customers for the simplest of things, especially companies like Apple, you would be singing a different tune. 

Even if I brush aside the rationale I have had, relatively speaking this CE is by far a better package than most DLC and CE out there, is it not? Heck, it's of better value than their previous DLC, their previous Collector's Editions. 

You speak your voice with your dollars, but based on other practices in the industry, I have rewarded Bioware with my money for being relatively better than the industry as far as a Collector's Edition worth buying, a franchise that did not feel like everything else that's out there, and DLC that is more valuable than other gaming company's efforts. 

As time goes by Bethesda and CDPR become more attractive, EA and their pawns less. I bougth the last games of these companies and will wait with ME3. I just don't feel like supporting people that appear like they view their customers as money sacks, without ever admitting mistakes. Never agreeing with legit negative feedback unless the marketing for the next game has just started where they proudly present how they used the feedback to make the game better.

"The game is not made for close combat it is about shooting." Later "Omni blade everywhere!"

"RPG stuff is bad, it confuses everyone but the nerds." Later "Weapon customization, Ability trees"

"The non removable helmets are a design decision and we want it that way" Later "Helmet visibility options"

"It makes me sick how everyone just assumes Earth is the center of universe, based on a teaser trailer."
Later "TAKE BACK EARTH"

Origin was defused after so many complaints with BF3.
This approar against the Prothean Day 1 DLC will have consequences as well, more directly lost faith in EA/Bioware and lost sales. Who says, there is no point in voicing your opinion is obviously ignorant of the past.

[jpzgoku]

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

jpzgoku wrote...

Genshie wrote...

jpzgoku wrote...

People who support and defend companies who have first day DLC are just as bad, maybe worse, than these companies.

These companies obviously want to make more money and pulling content and charging $10 extra, essentially making the game $70. Consumers who support this are freely giving up their rights as a consumer and are encouraging companies to continue these practices.

It is your choice to buy the dlc. No one is forcing you to buy the dlc. The game itself can start and end without the need of this dlc. You are making it sound like you are being forced to buy it which is untrue. Stop trying to make a pitty party out of something that isn't even forced upon you.

You are obviously missing the point. The full game now costs $70, mostly because we consumers are allowing this to happen.

No, no, and NO. You don't have to. Collector Edition has extras that are perhaps worthwhile to some, while it isn't others. How Shepard Story ends with the full game is the canon everyone has an opportunity to experience and what is what is wanted for most to experience. Experiences with the use of extras, such as Normandy Avatar props throughout the player's journey to beat the game is a value only the player can make. Not me and and not you. 

The truth is that the backlash only proves to me that Bioware made a worthwhile Collector's Edition to purchase. I honestly can't say other games have had CE this good in a long time and create such buzz... The only one I can remember was when I bought Witcher's DLC and was amazed by the quality...

You are obviously missing the point. The full game now costs $70, mostly because we consumers are allowing this to happen.

You are part of the problem.

[Kevin Lozandier]

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

Xellana wrote...

Exia001 wrote...

I am greatful that you are being civil, thank you.

But isn't the poiont of a CE that it is not the same game as an SE, the ONLY reason I brought CE so fast was because I wanted the Prothean

No, I think this is what causes the uproar. I have never seen a CE where there is relevant (I don´t mean "essential by that") game content. Additional missions, something like that. CE were always about getting something cosmetic, something gimmiky (a statue or an USB-Stick), the soundtrack, a poster or something like that. Not additional game content.

HELL NO. Collector Editions are meant to have things that people who bought the regular can't have. That is a  crappy Collector's Edition if you ask me. And it goes back to my original premise that I'm sure I'm irking people repeating over and over again: Collector Edition of Comics have extra panels. Collector Edition of Movies have uncut material. Why can't Collector Edition of Games not have additional content to play with that's not on regular editions. 


That notion of Collector Editions are the reason why some Collector Editions of many games are still store shelves. 



 

 

[LGTX]

Ilgar92 wrote...

LGTX wrote...

It's not in the game. They managed to stash in some spare code and VO for the DLC in the vanilla disc before it went gold, but the majority of the work was done after the game went to certification. Both Mike and Casey explained this many times. From this point on, it's a simple case of believing their word.

Honestly, who on Earth is naive enough to believe their word?

Mindless biodrones like me of course. It's silly to assume otherwise.

[Severyx]

Ilgar92 wrote...

LGTX wrote...

It's not in the game. They managed to stash in some spare code and VO for the DLC in the vanilla disc before it went gold, but the majority of the work was done after the game went to certification. Both Mike and Casey explained this many times. From this point on, it's a simple case of believing their word.

Honestly, who on Earth is naive enough to believe their word?

Honestly, who on Earth is naive enough to stick fingers in their ears and shout 'LA LA LA LA' when given truthful information?

[Koju737]

DJBare wrote...

Just a reminder
Javik is in the full game, the DLC adds a mission and the option to have him join the squad.

Gonna try to keep this going as people dont seem to get a chance to see it.... Hopefuly it will settle things down a bit

Modifié par Koju737, 24 février 2012 - 10:05 .

[SeroRamaiX]

jpzgoku wrote...

SeroRamaiX wrote...

Reading some of the posts here at the end and such, I had a thought pop up in my mind that I haven't seen yet...

Has anyone stopped to think that at least Bioware gave SE buyers a chance to get the prothean? Because what if you could ONLY get the character with the CE...? I pre-ordered my CE back in december, just because I knew there would be limited supplies, and im a die-hard Mass Effect fan.

But atleast bioware is giving people a chance to get the character, rather then just giving it only to the CE preorders.

Now excuse me. I have to go hide inside my flame bunker for the incoming attacks.

You do not understand the problem. If we, the consumers, were smart we would have never allowed the notion of witholding content that was available at launch from the game, for an extra fee, to be an acceptable practice. Buying first day DLC and buying CE editions of games for the purpose of getting extra content is allowing companies to fragment thier games, essentially making the game cost more than $60. $70 in this case, and it will only get worse in the future because we are allowing companies to get away with it.

Thats not what I was trying to imply (And god knows all the flu medicine im on is making me delirious). I do think that Day one DLC is just a way of company to milk us customers for even more then our worth (Which is wrong), and I also think that characters that have "Critical tie in's with the main story" that are either A: Free to CE, or B: Cost 10$ for SE to recieve is wrong. Truthfully, no character should be like that. Im sure poor javik wants everyone to take him for a walk... My only thought was "What if bioware never let SE have a chance to get him?", but I still believe its wrong that they do this.

But what about weapons/gear? I loved my collector gear from ME2 (the armor and the gun), and felt appreciated for pitching in extra for items that had very little impact on the story, and were more or less just for personal amusement. Should everyone have gotten those, even though the items just popped in where it would be impossible story wise to have? Cause seriously. Im getting a dog, hoodie, costumes for team mates, and a N7 arsenal pack that doesnt even look all that special... I feel a tid bit sad with this one.

[Xellana]

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

Xellana wrote...

Exia001 wrote...

I am greatful that you are being civil, thank you.

But isn't the poiont of a CE that it is not the same game as an SE, the ONLY reason I brought CE so fast was because I wanted the Prothean

No, I think this is what causes the uproar. I have never seen a CE where there is relevant (I don´t mean "essential by that") game content. Additional missions, something like that. CE were always about getting something cosmetic, something gimmiky (a statue or an USB-Stick), the soundtrack, a poster or something like that. Not additional game content.

HELL NO. That is a  crappy Collector's Edition if you ask me. And it goes back to my original premise that I'm sure I'm irking people repeating over and over again: Collector Edition of Comics have extra panels. Collector Edition of Movies have uncut material. Why can't Collector Edition of Games not have additional content to play with that's not on regular editions. 


That notion of Collector Editions are the reason why some Collector Editions of many games are still store shelves.

For movies this is only okay if the movie is not just released.
Imagine a movie day1 release in cinemas where there are 2 versions of the movie. One is more expensive and has more footage (the whole movie), while the other version is a bit cheaper, but has not the whole movie in it.

I think people would compain there as much as they complain here.

[Rdubs]

LGTX wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Kreidian wrote...

Wow, the leap in logic there is just so ...


... I'm just gonna put this here and be done with it.

*graph snip*

Pretty graphic which misses the point, still misses the point.  The issue isn't development cycles - the issue is about what is considered "premium day 1 DLC."   People are pissed because a character as critical to the lore of the ME experience should be part of the basic game, not hocked as "optional" DLC full well knowing that anyone who likes the story would feel obligated to buy the DLC or miss out on key parts of the story.

That issue is adressed in the lower section of the graph. No matter how critical the Prothean is to the lore, it's not difficult to make him optional to the plot. Think Arrival or Shadow Broker.

As I noted on this graphic a few pages back - which I do NOT begrudge you for not noticing given how fast and furious these comments are filling up -

• The second aspect has to do with, what someone previously reminded me of, the "But these amps go to 11!" rating scale.  One of the faults of the above graphic lies with the "Built to be optional for the purposes of the ME3 narrative."  The graphic even makes my argument for me, that the "DLC" has "tremendous story potential".  News flash: People love Mass Effect FOR THE STORY.  Laying out a full story with all the pieces contributing to it then claiming to draw a line at the 90% mark and say "That's the full story, anything else is extra" is bull****.  This isn't some random jackass like Zaeed who I really didn't care about since I already had 12 people like him on my squad and who really didn't add anything, this is a frikkin PROTHEAN.

[Kevin Lozandier]

DaJe wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Amikae wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...
I'm saying, fans here are looking at it in a way that is so hypocritical, it's sickening....

What's sickening is that you don't seem to get it. Game companies are starting to milk us and you don't care. In the past good game companies made good games and sold a complete game. These days you see them cut content on purpose to sell it. If you can't see the problem here, you're in trouble.

www.youtube.com/watch

Every company on the face of the planet is milking us.  When companies get taxpayer subsidies, double the price of their product, and make record profits while complaining that their industry is in trouble I get mad.  When a company charges ten dollars for DLC I just decide whether I'm going to buy it or not.  

Absolutely true. If some of you knew the Gross Profit Margin that businesses get off customers for the simplest of things, especially companies like Apple, you would be singing a different tune. 

Even if I brush aside the rationale I have had, relatively speaking this CE is by far a better package than most DLC and CE out there, is it not? Heck, it's of better value than their previous DLC, their previous Collector's Editions. 

You speak your voice with your dollars, but based on other practices in the industry, I have rewarded Bioware with my money for being relatively better than the industry as far as a Collector's Edition worth buying, a franchise that did not feel like everything else that's out there, and DLC that is more valuable than other gaming company's efforts. 

As time goes by Bethesda and CDPR become more attractive, EA and their pawns less. I bougth the last games of these companies and will wait with ME3. I just don't feel like supporting people that appear like they view their customers as money sacks, without ever admitting mistakes. Never agreeing with legit negative feedback unless the marketing for the next game has just started where they proudly present how they used the feedback to make the game better.

"The game is not made for close combat it is about shooting." Later "Omni blade everywhere!"

"RPG stuff is bad, it confuses everyone but the nerds." Later "Weapon customization, Ability trees"

"The non removable helmets are a design decision and we want it that way" Later "Helmet visibility options"

"It makes me sick how everyone just assumes Earth is the center of universe, based on a teaser trailer."
Later "TAKE BACK EARTH"

Origin was defused after so many complaints with BF3.
This approar against the Prothean Day 1 DLC will have consequences as well, more directly lost faith in EA/Bioware and lost sales. Who says, there is no point in voicing your opinion is obviously ignorant of the past.

Wait, what? Weapon Cusotmization and etc were part of ME1; they responded from criticism from ME 2 to bring all that back. If I'm totally not interpreting your point, feel free to voice that with a reply. 

Don't even mention 
Bethesda . They have a PR mess as it is with the buggy PS3 version they KNEW was buggy and opted to patch it. Mass Effect is not bug free, but it's certaintly above average; that's part of their appeal..... Granted Elder Scrolls is far vaster, so I have to acknowledge that... 

[DifferentD17]

fropas wrote...

I purchased everything in the N7 CE not just the collectibles. EVERYTHING. if I was only getting exclusive collectibles I never would have pre-ordered a CE

I thought you said your mom was buying it for you?


http://social.biowar...705/104#9413339


Or was it a joke? Because it wasn't funny.

[Kroepoek]

Slashice wrote...

We're still talking about a Prothean (I repeat, a Prothean, you know the guys who made the Conduit and warned us about the Reapers so we can fight them!) squad mate that will only be available if you buy the DLC or you buy the CE and you get it for free. It's not just some cool extra squad mate like a Turian female or something like this. It's a Prothean a lore and story wise very important asset and it should be in the game originally or as a free DLC (for everyone) like we got Zaeed in ME2 as free. The only differenc was that Zaeed was a pointless character while a Prothean character is a most important character lore wise who can help us defeat the Reapers and may answer our questions about what about 50.000 years ago... That's just nonsense Bioware.

Yet I will buy CE (considering not to buy it) so I will get it but I feel bad for those who buy the SE of the game and they'll have to pay for this DLC... that's just not fair, doesn't feel right.

It's a Prothean because EA/DLCWare can pull a maximum capitalizing stunt with it. It has nothing to do anymore with caring for fans or all that mambo-jambo propaganda they're spitting out these days.

Bioware is all talk.

[heart again]

Koju737 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Just a reminder
Javik is in the full game, the DLC adds a mission and the option to have him join the squad.

Gonna try to keep this going as people dont seem to get a chance to see it.... Hopefuly it will settle things down a bit

Seriously everyone needs to know that. 

Spoiler or not, Bioware should make a point of that to at least get some people to calm down.

[Kevin Lozandier]

Xellana wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

Xellana wrote...

Exia001 wrote...

I am greatful that you are being civil, thank you.

But isn't the poiont of a CE that it is not the same game as an SE, the ONLY reason I brought CE so fast was because I wanted the Prothean

No, I think this is what causes the uproar. I have never seen a CE where there is relevant (I don´t mean "essential by that") game content. Additional missions, something like that. CE were always about getting something cosmetic, something gimmiky (a statue or an USB-Stick), the soundtrack, a poster or something like that. Not additional game content.

HELL NO. That is a  crappy Collector's Edition if you ask me. And it goes back to my original premise that I'm sure I'm irking people repeating over and over again: Collector Edition of Comics have extra panels. Collector Edition of Movies have uncut material. Why can't Collector Edition of Games not have additional content to play with that's not on regular editions. 


That notion of Collector Editions are the reason why some Collector Editions of many games are still store shelves.

For movies this is only okay if the movie is not just released.
Imagine a movie day1 release in cinemas where there are 2 versions of the movie. One is more expensive and has more footage (the whole movie), while the other version is a bit cheaper, but has not the whole movie in it.

I think people would compain there as much as they complain here.

No. I already addressed this with someone who tried to make the same analogy. It is below (not addressed to you): 

No offense, but Director's Cut content doesn't come out of thin air; it was usually made when the parts of the film you did see on theaters was shot. SOMETIMES they shoot again afterwards if they feel some deleted scenes needed continouation to make sense. This is FACT.

 

Plus your argument is flawed. The Prothean and Eden parts you can say for certain are 'official' versions of Mass Effect 3; therefore I suggest you rethink what you're saying.



Just like most deleted scenes of films, Directors try sometimes to add it in the story or shoot it for an alternate take to perhaps revisit during the development of the movie. It's not far-fetched that this happened here. They tried to integrate this prothean, and it couldn't happen: Either it lessened the story of Shepard, it felt forced (trying too hard to have the Prothean have a role), it made the story less bleak, or gave off an emotion in the story that was not desired, and
so forth. 

Modifié par Kevin Lozandier, 24 février 2012 - 10:09 .

[fropas]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

bioware said it themselves the DLC in the CE edition was free of charge, it's in there yes but free 

also you're right, you would have never bought the CE edition otherwise hence why bioware warped what the collector's editions should be (physical items and cosmetical digital items) and never would have gotten those extra 20$ dollars worth of collectibles from you

So basically, I shouldn't get 10$ DLC (from ashes) even though I'm paying 20$ more (CE)?

I'd pay 10$ for the DLC if that would shut people up. But I'd never support people getting any content (I pay for) for free. Screw that.

[Rdubs]

Severyx wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Pretty graphic which misses the point, still misses the point.  The issue isn't development cycles - the issue is about what is considered "premium day 1 DLC."   People are pissed because a character as critical to the lore of the ME experience should be part of the basic game, not hocked as "optional" DLC full well knowing that anyone who likes the story would feel obligated to buy the DLC or miss out on key parts of the story.

Then get the DLC and feel like you've got the full experience or refuse to pay and feel like the universe is aligned to hate you.

That said, I think the people who have that mentality miss the point most of all. And a squadmate is most certainly optional. Could you get though ME2 without ever bothering to download Kasumi? You most certainly can.

Can you get through ME3 without having a Prothean squadmate? You most certainly can. It's a cool idea, but in no way 'lore critical'. That language is for entitleistic boobs who can't stand the idea of someone having something they don't have.

Guess you missed that I already ordered the CE.  So I guess I can't stand someone else having something I don't have except I do have it.

It's a matter of principle.  I defer to Legion - they could have taken him out as a squadmate and said, nope he's $10 extra.  But who didn't enjoy Legion as part of their ME2 experience?  And he was WAY less important to the whole ME story than someone like this.

[Beefcake9000]

Severyx wrote...

That said, I think the people who have that mentality miss the point most of all. And a squadmate is most certainly optional. Could you get though ME2 without ever bothering to download Kasumi? You most certainly can.

You can 'complete' ME2 with only 2 (playable) squadmates, no loyalty missions, no N7 missions...

Where does the line get drawn? There is a bigger issue here. At what point does content become 'optional' and should that content require an additional fee? How much of ME2 would they have to strip away and sell as 'optional' before you consider it wrong? Not illegal, because they're within their rights to do so - but just wrong? It's a dangerous precedent to encourage.

[Kevin Lozandier]

Koju737 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Just a reminder
Javik is in the full game, the DLC adds a mission and the option to have him join the squad.

Gonna try to keep this going as people dont seem to get a chance to see it.... Hopefuly it will settle things down a bit

I didn't want to imply it having the Art of the Mass Effect Universe book, but I guess you felt it is necessary to calm people down. 

[nightcobra]

snip

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 24 février 2012 - 10:15 .