13369 réponses à ce sujet

[fropas]

DifferentD17 wrote...

fropas wrote...

I purchased everything in the N7 CE not just the collectibles. EVERYTHING. if I was only getting exclusive collectibles I never would have pre-ordered a CE

I thought you said your mom was buying it for you?


http://social.biowar...705/104#9413339


Or was it a joke? Because it wasn't funny.

 that was a joke my mom hasn't bought me a game in years. . .the person I was responding was a troll, so I trolled him back. sry it didn't amuse you (now, It's kinda funny)

[Xellana]

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

Xellana wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

Xellana wrote...

Exia001 wrote...

I am greatful that you are being civil, thank you.

But isn't the poiont of a CE that it is not the same game as an SE, the ONLY reason I brought CE so fast was because I wanted the Prothean

No, I think this is what causes the uproar. I have never seen a CE where there is relevant (I don´t mean "essential by that") game content. Additional missions, something like that. CE were always about getting something cosmetic, something gimmiky (a statue or an USB-Stick), the soundtrack, a poster or something like that. Not additional game content.

HELL NO. That is a  crappy Collector's Edition if you ask me. And it goes back to my original premise that I'm sure I'm irking people repeating over and over again: Collector Edition of Comics have extra panels. Collector Edition of Movies have uncut material. Why can't Collector Edition of Games not have additional content to play with that's not on regular editions. 


That notion of Collector Editions are the reason why some Collector Editions of many games are still store shelves.

For movies this is only okay if the movie is not just released.
Imagine a movie day1 release in cinemas where there are 2 versions of the movie. One is more expensive and has more footage (the whole movie), while the other version is a bit cheaper, but has not the whole movie in it.

I think people would compain there as much as they complain here.

No. I already addressed this with someone who tried to make the same analogy. It is below (not addressed to you): 

No offense, but Director's Cut content doesn't come out of thin air; it was usually made when the parts of the film you did see on theaters was shot. SOMETIMES they shoot again afterwards if they feel some deleted scenes needed continouation to make sense. This is FACT.

 

Plus your argument is flawed. The Prothean and Eden parts you can say for certain are 'official' versions of Mass Effect 3; therefore I suggest you rethink what you're saying.



Just like most deleted scenes of films, Directors try sometimes to add it in the story or shoot it for an alternate take to perhaps revisit during the development of the movie. It's not far-fetched that this happened here. They tried to integrate this prothean, and it couldn't happen: Either it lessened the story of Shepard, it felt forced (trying too hard to have the Prothean have a role), it made the story less bleak, or gave off an emotion in the story that was not desired, and
so forth. 

I don´t see a point in what you said there, that disagrees with my statement earlier, that it doesn´t justify 2 different versions of the same game at day1 release. If this were done with movies in day1 cinema releases, people would complain. I´m sure of it.
All that you said there is absolutely true, but it doesn´t make my statement above any less true.

Modifié par Xellana, 24 février 2012 - 10:14 .

[AkiKishi]

Xellana wrote...

For movies this is only okay if the movie is not just released.
Imagine a movie day1 release in cinemas where there are 2 versions of the movie. One is more expensive and has more footage (the whole movie), while the other version is a bit cheaper, but has not the whole movie in it.

I think people would compain there as much as they complain here.

There would be riots.

The point of principle is that everyone sees the same movie on release. Directors cuts/etc. released later, that's then your choice whether or not you feel it's worth it.

Games should be the same way. Everyone gets the same game. If they release DLC later, you can choose whether or not you think it will add to the experience or not. But expecting people to watch/play a movie/game with something they know is missing is clearly wrong.

[Kevin Lozandier]

Beefcake9000 wrote...

Severyx wrote...

That said, I think the people who have that mentality miss the point most of all. And a squadmate is most certainly optional. Could you get though ME2 without ever bothering to download Kasumi? You most certainly can.

You can 'complete' ME2 with only 2 (playable) squadmates, no loyalty missions, no N7 missions...

Where does the line get drawn? There is a bigger issue here. At what point does content become 'optional' and should that content require an additional fee? How much of ME2 would they have to strip away and sell as 'optional' before you consider it wrong? Not illegal, because they're within their rights to do so - but just wrong? It's a dangerous precedent to encourage.

It is dangerous. You're not going to like it, but you have to trust the artist that the story they wanted to tell for the universes they created is what they intended with the time they had to do it. And additional content they feel is too fun or rewarding to keep forever a secret in the creative process is given to those who have fallen in love with their creativity. 

We live in a pessimistic society however and it doesn't surpise me that many of you feel that way. However, I'm willing to help fellow humans get out of the either-or fallacies I have seen posted over and over again. 

Modifié par Kevin Lozandier, 24 février 2012 - 10:16 .

[nightcobra]

 

fropas wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

bioware said it themselves the DLC in the CE edition was free of charge, it's in there yes but free 

also you're right, you would have never bought the CE edition otherwise hence why bioware warped what the collector's editions should be (physical items and cosmetical digital items) and never would have gotten those extra 20$ dollars worth of collectibles from you

So basically, I shouldn't get 10$ DLC (from ashes) even though I'm paying 20$ more (CE)?

I'd pay 10$ for the DLC if that would shut people up. But I'd never support people getting any content (I pay for) for free. Screw that. 

no, if it was like ME2's cerberus network all copies would get this DLC, even your CE edition copy.
a CE edition for the people who like collectibles and something like the cerberus network to icentivize new buyers.

what was so bad about this practice that it needed changing, just one thing. bioware/EA didn't think it was getting enough money out of it

[Exia001]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Xellana wrote...

For movies this is only okay if the movie is not just released.
Imagine a movie day1 release in cinemas where there are 2 versions of the movie. One is more expensive and has more footage (the whole movie), while the other version is a bit cheaper, but has not the whole movie in it.

I think people would compain there as much as they complain here.

There would be riots.

The point of principle is that everyone sees the same movie on release. Directors cuts/etc. released later, that's then your choice whether or not you feel it's worth it.

Games should be the same way. Everyone gets the same game. If they release DLC later, you can choose whether or not you think it will add to the experience or not. But expecting people to watch/play a movie/game with something they know is missing is clearly wrong.

You don't have to...You get the DLC...or wait til its free, theres always that, then everyone wins

Modifié par Exia001, 24 février 2012 - 10:16 .

[DifferentD17]

I think some people wouldn't be mad if it where included instead of or with the online pass. It just seems like they made multiplayer so they could charge for this DLC. It just my opinion though.

[Severyx]

Rdubs wrote...

Severyx wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Pretty graphic which misses the point, still misses the point.  The issue isn't development cycles - the issue is about what is considered "premium day 1 DLC."   People are pissed because a character as critical to the lore of the ME experience should be part of the basic game, not hocked as "optional" DLC full well knowing that anyone who likes the story would feel obligated to buy the DLC or miss out on key parts of the story.

Then get the DLC and feel like you've got the full experience or refuse to pay and feel like the universe is aligned to hate you.

That said, I think the people who have that mentality miss the point most of all. And a squadmate is most certainly optional. Could you get though ME2 without ever bothering to download Kasumi? You most certainly can.

Can you get through ME3 without having a Prothean squadmate? You most certainly can. It's a cool idea, but in no way 'lore critical'. That language is for entitleistic boobs who can't stand the idea of someone having something they don't have.

Guess you missed that I already ordered the CE.  So I guess I can't stand someone else having something I don't have except I do have it.

It's a matter of principle.  I defer to Legion - they could have taken him out as a squadmate and said, nope he's $10 extra.  But who didn't enjoy Legion as part of their ME2 experience?  And he was WAY less important to the whole ME story than someone like this.

And you missed the point where I generalized the idea instead of directly attacking you as a person.

And you're also still missing the point of how this all gets created. DLC content was not decided upon when they lined out the scope of the game, but rather something they thought would be cool to do later, by a team of developers who've had their positions recycled because their roles on the ME3 game development process had been fulfilled.

It's not principle. It's a simple logical order of things. Don't chalk it up to them making decisions about content when you don't quite know what you're talking about. The Prothean wasn't originally a squadmate for ANY ME3 owner. It was decided upon LATER to add it in the form of DLC. The graphic depicting development cycles has some important and truthful data about real world numbers. Might be a good idea to look into it.

[fropas]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

fropas wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

bioware said it themselves the DLC in the CE edition was free of charge, it's in there yes but free 

also you're right, you would have never bought the CE edition otherwise hence why bioware warped what the collector's editions should be (physical items and cosmetical digital items) and never would have gotten those extra 20$ dollars worth of collectibles from you

So basically, I shouldn't get 10$ DLC (from ashes) even though I'm paying 20$ more (CE)?

I'd pay 10$ for the DLC if that would shut people up. But I'd never support people getting any content (I pay for) for free. Screw that.

no, if it was like ME2's cerberus network all copies would get this DLC, even your CE edition copy.

But this isn't free DLC like Zaeed and Normandy were... stop living in the past? EA/BW doesn't want to do that again for whatever reason. If it was free for everyone I'd have no problem with it, but it wasn't "free" for me. I only get it for "free" if I spend 20$ extra on a CE. So yeah I'm not okay with it being "free" to people who spend 20$ less than I do.

[nightcobra]

fropas wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

fropas wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

bioware said it themselves the DLC in the CE edition was free of charge, it's in there yes but free 

also you're right, you would have never bought the CE edition otherwise hence why bioware warped what the collector's editions should be (physical items and cosmetical digital items) and never would have gotten those extra 20$ dollars worth of collectibles from you

So basically, I shouldn't get 10$ DLC (from ashes) even though I'm paying 20$ more (CE)?

I'd pay 10$ for the DLC if that would shut people up. But I'd never support people getting any content (I pay for) for free. Screw that.

no, if it was like ME2's cerberus network all copies would get this DLC, even your CE edition copy.

But this isn't free DLC like Zaeed and Normandy were... stop living in the past? EA/BW doesn't want to do that again for whatever reason. If it was free for everyone I'd have no problem with it, but it wasn't "free" for me. I only get it for "free" if I spend 20$ extra on a CE. So yeah I'm not okay with it being "free" to people who spend 20$ less than I do.

and that's how bioware got you, you ended up paying up for collectibles you didn't even want in the first place

[DifferentD17]

Exia001 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Xellana wrote...

For movies this is only okay if the movie is not just released.
Imagine a movie day1 release in cinemas where there are 2 versions of the movie. One is more expensive and has more footage (the whole movie), while the other version is a bit cheaper, but has not the whole movie in it.

I think people would compain there as much as they complain here.

There would be riots.

The point of principle is that everyone sees the same movie on release. Directors cuts/etc. released later, that's then your choice whether or not you feel it's worth it.

Games should be the same way. Everyone gets the same game. If they release DLC later, you can choose whether or not you think it will add to the experience or not. But expecting people to watch/play a movie/game with something they know is missing is clearly wrong.

You don't have to...You get the DLC...or wait til its free, theres always that, then everyone wins

When will it ever be free?

[Amikae]

DifferentD17 wrote...

I think some people wouldn't be mad if it where included instead of or with the online pass. It just seems like they made multiplayer so they could charge for this DLC. It just my opinion though.

Actually, I would very much prefer for the Multiplayer part of the game to be a DLC, instaed of content tied to the story and narrative. It's how it should have been.

[fropas]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

fropas wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

fropas wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

bioware said it themselves the DLC in the CE edition was free of charge, it's in there yes but free 

also you're right, you would have never bought the CE edition otherwise hence why bioware warped what the collector's editions should be (physical items and cosmetical digital items) and never would have gotten those extra 20$ dollars worth of collectibles from you

So basically, I shouldn't get 10$ DLC (from ashes) even though I'm paying 20$ more (CE)?

I'd pay 10$ for the DLC if that would shut people up. But I'd never support people getting any content (I pay for) for free. Screw that.

no, if it was like ME2's cerberus network all copies would get this DLC, even your CE edition copy.

But this isn't free DLC like Zaeed and Normandy were... stop living in the past? EA/BW doesn't want to do that again for whatever reason. If it was free for everyone I'd have no problem with it, but it wasn't "free" for me. I only get it for "free" if I spend 20$ extra on a CE. So yeah I'm not okay with it being "free" to people who spend 20$ less than I do.

and that's how bioware got you, you ended up paying up for collectibles you didn't even want in the first place

They got me the second they offered DLC weapons . . .I'm such an equipment **** its not even funny.

[nightcobra]

DifferentD17 wrote...

Exia001 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Xellana wrote...

For movies this is only okay if the movie is not just released.
Imagine a movie day1 release in cinemas where there are 2 versions of the movie. One is more expensive and has more footage (the whole movie), while the other version is a bit cheaper, but has not the whole movie in it.

I think people would compain there as much as they complain here.

There would be riots.

The point of principle is that everyone sees the same movie on release. Directors cuts/etc. released later, that's then your choice whether or not you feel it's worth it.

Games should be the same way. Everyone gets the same game. If they release DLC later, you can choose whether or not you think it will add to the experience or not. But expecting people to watch/play a movie/game with something they know is missing is clearly wrong.

You don't have to...You get the DLC...or wait til its free, theres always that, then everyone wins

When will it ever be free?

when the ultimate deluxe prestige elite true fan game of the year edition eventually comes out more or less 6 months afterwards.

[DifferentD17]

Amikae wrote...

DifferentD17 wrote...

I think some people wouldn't be mad if it where included instead of or with the online pass. It just seems like they made multiplayer so they could charge for this DLC. It just my opinion though.

Actually, I would very much prefer for the Multiplayer part of the game to be a DLC, instaed of content tied to the story and narrative. It's how it should have been.

I would prefer it that way too, but I bet alot of people wouldn't have bought it, the people who are just playing it for an RPG, and not another shooter.

[DifferentD17]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

DifferentD17 wrote...

Exia001 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Xellana wrote...

For movies this is only okay if the movie is not just released.
Imagine a movie day1 release in cinemas where there are 2 versions of the movie. One is more expensive and has more footage (the whole movie), while the other version is a bit cheaper, but has not the whole movie in it.

I think people would compain there as much as they complain here.

There would be riots.

The point of principle is that everyone sees the same movie on release. Directors cuts/etc. released later, that's then your choice whether or not you feel it's worth it.

Games should be the same way. Everyone gets the same game. If they release DLC later, you can choose whether or not you think it will add to the experience or not. But expecting people to watch/play a movie/game with something they know is missing is clearly wrong.

You don't have to...You get the DLC...or wait til its free, theres always that, then everyone wins

When will it ever be free?

when the ultimate deluxe prestige elite true fan game of the year edition eventually comes out more or less 6 months afterwards.

Mass Effect 2 doesn't have that why would Mass Effect 3?

[nightcobra]

fropas wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

fropas wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

fropas wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

bioware said it themselves the DLC in the CE edition was free of charge, it's in there yes but free 

also you're right, you would have never bought the CE edition otherwise hence why bioware warped what the collector's editions should be (physical items and cosmetical digital items) and never would have gotten those extra 20$ dollars worth of collectibles from you

So basically, I shouldn't get 10$ DLC (from ashes) even though I'm paying 20$ more (CE)?

I'd pay 10$ for the DLC if that would shut people up. But I'd never support people getting any content (I pay for) for free. Screw that.

no, if it was like ME2's cerberus network all copies would get this DLC, even your CE edition copy.

But this isn't free DLC like Zaeed and Normandy were... stop living in the past? EA/BW doesn't want to do that again for whatever reason. If it was free for everyone I'd have no problem with it, but it wasn't "free" for me. I only get it for "free" if I spend 20$ extra on a CE. So yeah I'm not okay with it being "free" to people who spend 20$ less than I do.

and that's how bioware got you, you ended up paying up for collectibles you didn't even want in the first place

They got me the second they offered DLC weapons . . .I'm such an equipment **** its not even funny.

that type of in-game content on CE editions are actually acceptable as they are mainly cosmetic items (unless they break the game by making them too powerful)

[Exia001]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

fropas wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

fropas wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

bioware said it themselves the DLC in the CE edition was free of charge, it's in there yes but free 

also you're right, you would have never bought the CE edition otherwise hence why bioware warped what the collector's editions should be (physical items and cosmetical digital items) and never would have gotten those extra 20$ dollars worth of collectibles from you

So basically, I shouldn't get 10$ DLC (from ashes) even though I'm paying 20$ more (CE)?

I'd pay 10$ for the DLC if that would shut people up. But I'd never support people getting any content (I pay for) for free. Screw that.

no, if it was like ME2's cerberus network all copies would get this DLC, even your CE edition copy.

But this isn't free DLC like Zaeed and Normandy were... stop living in the past? EA/BW doesn't want to do that again for whatever reason. If it was free for everyone I'd have no problem with it, but it wasn't "free" for me. I only get it for "free" if I spend 20$ extra on a CE. So yeah I'm not okay with it being "free" to people who spend 20$ less than I do.

and that's how bioware got you, you ended up paying up for collectibles you didn't even want in the first place

There was no getting, he just made a choice. Dont try to make out we're stupid for buying CEs because you didn't

Modifié par Exia001, 24 février 2012 - 10:23 .

[DeadLetterBox]

fropas wrote...


They got me the second they offered DLC weapons . . .I'm such an equipment **** its not even funny.

My husband does that.  He bought every single DLC for ME2, including the alternate appearance packs.  It was insane.  You want to talk about getting milked for cash 

[Kevin Lozandier]

Exia001 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Xellana wrote...

For movies this is only okay if the movie is not just released.
Imagine a movie day1 release in cinemas where there are 2 versions of the movie. One is more expensive and has more footage (the whole movie), while the other version is a bit cheaper, but has not the whole movie in it.

I think people would compain there as much as they complain here.

There would be riots.

The point of principle is that everyone sees the same movie on release. Directors cuts/etc. released later, that's then your choice whether or not you feel it's worth it.

Games should be the same way. Everyone gets the same game. If they release DLC later, you can choose whether or not you think it will add to the experience or not. But expecting people to watch/play a movie/game with something they know is missing is clearly wrong.

You don't have to...You get the DLC...or wait til its free, theres always that, then everyone wins

To the person that is saying another medium should be another medium: Sorry, but that's apples and oranges. It's just like why used games hurt gaming far more than music and movies. EVEN the guy at Reddit  who made his view on the matter clear did a VERY, VERY good job pointed that out to people who are not familar with the business side of entertainment or never bothered rather than hear from other fans, not looking into how the industry works outside the common person. 

For movies, you have a LOT of distribution hoops to go through for the movie to be rereleased or have added content in. For games its non-existent and why you can even have Day 1 content that was made seperate from the main game that had to go through rigorious quality assurance testing and mandatory platform-specific practices to be in your hands. 

What I think is the saddest argument people make is 'if it was finished before launch, it should be in the game' not releasing it's not child's play to even add cards back into sealed game or games being made by the boatloads to at least be made in the minimum amount the publisher expects the game to sell.

It's like those who think Football and being an Athlete is the easiest thing to do, but most don't know all the work that goes into it. Or being a Celebrity, or being a Singer, or being an Artist. You expect people to make a work of art in an hour or something and it's like no, no... especially if it's on OPM (Other People's Money). Some people have to kiss so much behinds  to have their company being in someway in their control to even launch things like Mass Effect.

Modifié par Kevin Lozandier, 24 février 2012 - 10:23 .

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

I'm getting the N7 CE so I'm excited

[Gibb_Shepard]

This thread is still getting a post a minute. Awesome.

[MonkeySeeker]

It's also possible you'll still be able to learn anything the Prothean would tell you without the DLC:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/325/index/8006985/175#9436591

sirdario1986 wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

Butcher_of_Torfan wrote...
Is Javik still in the game, but just not a squadie if the DLC isnt purchases?

He isn't in the game at all without the DLC.

Could be that you're wrong, my friend, and sorry but I really hope that! Read what Jessica Merizan answered to a direct question:

 
There's a theory going around that whatever you could've learned from this Prothean is already part of the core game, you don't need the DLC to get that content. What you do need this DLC for isto bring him along for the ride. I'm inclined to believe this, to be honest. But we won't know for certain until the game comes out.

And Jessica answered:

 
No spoilers from me, but you may[/i] be on the right train of thought with that

Though it's not confirmed of course, just a theory people have had.

[fropas]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

fropas wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

fropas wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

fropas wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

bioware said it themselves the DLC in the CE edition was free of charge, it's in there yes but free 

also you're right, you would have never bought the CE edition otherwise hence why bioware warped what the collector's editions should be (physical items and cosmetical digital items) and never would have gotten those extra 20$ dollars worth of collectibles from you

So basically, I shouldn't get 10$ DLC (from ashes) even though I'm paying 20$ more (CE)?

I'd pay 10$ for the DLC if that would shut people up. But I'd never support people getting any content (I pay for) for free. Screw that.

no, if it was like ME2's cerberus network all copies would get this DLC, even your CE edition copy.

But this isn't free DLC like Zaeed and Normandy were... stop living in the past? EA/BW doesn't want to do that again for whatever reason. If it was free for everyone I'd have no problem with it, but it wasn't "free" for me. I only get it for "free" if I spend 20$ extra on a CE. So yeah I'm not okay with it being "free" to people who spend 20$ less than I do.

and that's how bioware got you, you ended up paying up for collectibles you didn't even want in the first place

They got me the second they offered DLC weapons . . .I'm such an equipment **** its not even funny.

that type of in-game content on CE editions are actually acceptable as they are mainly cosmetic items (unless they break the game by making them too powerful)

What's acceptible to you doesn't matter. I'm buying a product from EA and I expect them to give me what they promised. I don't care what you think I "should" get in my CE. No offense. . .