13369 réponses à ce sujet

[McAllyster]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

I feel bad for ppl in europe it's hard enough waiting for March 6th

My only hope is Amazon.com. Perhaps they deliver to me at 7th or 8th and I can play before the official EU launch.

Damn, I hate this distribution system...

[Evilelf007]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

@DJBare
Yeah when people get their hands on ME3 I won't be on the forums until I finish the game

I'll be too busy playing the game to post here about it.

[jabajack]

Personally i can't wait for March 9th for my CE edition so this doesn't affect me, but one solution for this could be that they link the DLC to our Bioware accounts? when SE people register their games here they get a code for it maybe. Otherwise i'm happy they gave a legitimate reason to why it is day one DLC.

[Rdubs]

Evilelf007 wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

I'm a laid back guy, but personally I tend to give a **** when companies practice bad business.  When people let that happen and say they "don't give a ****" instead of standing up and saying, "Ok, that crosses a line," the only thing that road leads to is a bleak future for creative content in which it is overpriced, soulless, and milked.

I happen to think Bioware is doing very good buisness, not unethical milking, so no sympathy coming from me who think otherwise.

Actually "good business" and "unethical milking" are not mutually exclusive.

[Evilelf007]

Rdubs wrote...

Evilelf007 wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

I'm a laid back guy, but personally I tend to give a **** when companies practice bad business.  When people let that happen and say they "don't give a ****" instead of standing up and saying, "Ok, that crosses a line," the only thing that road leads to is a bleak future for creative content in which it is overpriced, soulless, and milked.

I happen to think Bioware is doing very good buisness, not unethical milking, so no sympathy coming from me who think otherwise.

Actually "good business" and "unethical milking" are not mutually exclusive.

I happen to think that there is nothing unethical going on with how Bioware is handling this at all.

[DJBare]

Rdubs wrote...
Actually "good business" and "unethical milking" are not mutually exclusive.

PT Barnum got it right.

[NoxJuked]

Rdubs wrote...

NoxJuked wrote...



http://www.reddit.co...oversy_and_how/

Too bad a lot of effort was built to create this table, which kind of misses one of the important points of people's concerns, and then go on to screw it up with weak logic in the "FAQ" section.
First point: Draw out all the timelines you want for how DLC works but they are irrelevant.  Many are concerned that the Prothean squad member was designed to be an integral part of the experience but then removed at the last second to become a quick cash-grab.  That's MUCH different from thinking at the last minute (or couple months), hey let's add this guy in here as a squad member.  That the leaked Beta contained files for the Prothean character the same way all the other selectable squad members had files lends legitimacy to this concern, that it was developed all along then removed to be sold as an extra.  All of the above timelines are nice but only relevant for true DLC, not content originally developed then cut to be sold as DLC.
The second aspect has to do with, what someone previously reminded me of, the "But these amps go to 11!" rating scale.  One of the faults of the above graphic lies with the "Built to be optional for the purposes of the ME3 narrative."  The graphic even makes my argument for me, that the "DLC" has "tremendous story potential".  News flash: People love Mass Effect FOR THE STORY.  Laying out a full story with all the pieces contributing to it then claiming to draw a line at the 90% mark and say "That's the full story, anything else is extra" is bull****.  This isn't some random jackass like Zaeed who I really didn't care about since I already had 12 people like him on my squad and who really didn't add anything, this is a frikkin PROTHEAN.

So first off the problem then is that none of you who cancel preorders, rage, and want to boycott ME3 is because you don't trust in Biowares word even though you seemed to support them all these years.

Right he's a very nice squadmate well worth the 10$ combined with the clothes for the rest of the crew. I don't see a prothean though as someonething that absolutely needs to be in the game, if he does they would have added him in during the core process and we'll see soon enough on March 6th.

[Biotic Sage]

Exia001 wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Evilelf007 wrote...

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

I'm getting the N7 CE so I'm excited

March 6th can't come soon enough!

Exia001 wrote...

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

I'm getting the N7 CE so I'm excited

Same,
I couldnt give a toss about this princples ****, even if I had the SE
if just kick myself for not getting a CE and move on, after all its
just gonna be me and ME at the end of the day

Now that's the type of attitude that belongs in the group id'd by my sig banner!  Click it and join us! 

I'm a laid back guy, but personally I tend to give a **** when companies practice bad business.  When people let that happen and say they "don't give a ****" instead of standing up and saying, "Ok, that crosses a line," the only thing that road leads to is a bleak future for creative content in which it is overpriced, soulless, and milked.

Oh friend, I agree with you...Its just that I draw the line somewhere else. If, for example a game said 'To see the ending pay 19 pounds, or access the second half, I'd be pissed and halt buying and emark on a faux crusade...As it happens, for one character I'm not getting out of my chair

That's definitely a good place to draw the line.  For me though, the trend in DLC and gaming in general that I've seen over the last 7 or so years is what causes me to draw the line.  It's not a specific point that's caused me to draw the line, it's the consistent evidence of a slippery slope to that inevitable conclusion that you speak of: paying 19 pounds to access the second half.  I won't wait until it gets there.  When I see the train barrelling down the track toward it, I'm going to say, "Oy, wtf."  This is just one more piece of the puzzle, by itself not a big deal, but placed into the context of the gaming industry quite disturbing.

And you can always argue: it's just business, the people who want the second half will pay for it. Nothing's free.  Blah blah blah.

It gets to a point where the lower class is excluded even though they WANT to pay.  It's wrong.  It's unethical business.  Then you have gaming become a plutocracy.  A "high society" past time if you will.  Like golf.  That's not where I want to see the future of gaming go.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 24 février 2012 - 11:09 .

[charginmahlaser]

Evilelf007 wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Evilelf007 wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

I'm a laid back guy, but personally I tend to give a **** when companies practice bad business.  When people let that happen and say they "don't give a ****" instead of standing up and saying, "Ok, that crosses a line," the only thing that road leads to is a bleak future for creative content in which it is overpriced, soulless, and milked.

I happen to think Bioware is doing very good buisness, not unethical milking, so no sympathy coming from me who think otherwise.

Actually "good business" and "unethical milking" are not mutually exclusive.

I happen to think that there is nothing unethical going on with how Bioware is handling this at all.

How do I get to fantasy land? I'd like to live there too.

[Rdubs]

Unethical is a strong word, I think people are pissed that they're pulling this stunt and it's leaving a bad taste with people.  It's premeditated parsing for maximum monetization.  Well within their rights, but it's almost dishonest.

Here is a rather good, and entertaining, recap of the people who aren't real happy about this.  The comments about the Blood Dragon armor are hilarious as I experienced every one.  Half a million views so far.

[DJBare]

Biotic Sage wrote...
That's definitely a good place to draw the line.  For me though, the trend in DLC and gaming in general that I've seen over the last 7 or so years is what causes me to draw the line.  It's not a specific point that's caused me to draw the line, it's the consistent evidence of a slippery slope to that inevitable conclusion.  This is just one more piece of the puzzle, by itself not a big deal, but placed into the context of the gaming industry quite disturbing.

And I thought I was the only one with this view on here, yup, this is where I draw the line, but I'm not going to let principle ruin my enjoyment of the last chapter of this game, yeah I'm a sucker, but only because it's the last in the trilogy, it will however be my last purchase until I see things change.

[Biotic Sage]

DJBare wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...
That's definitely a good place to draw the line.  For me though, the trend in DLC and gaming in general that I've seen over the last 7 or so years is what causes me to draw the line.  It's not a specific point that's caused me to draw the line, it's the consistent evidence of a slippery slope to that inevitable conclusion.  This is just one more piece of the puzzle, by itself not a big deal, but placed into the context of the gaming industry quite disturbing.

And I thought I was the only one with this view on here, yup, this is where I draw the line, but I'm not going to let principle ruin my enjoyment of the last chapter of this game, yeah I'm a sucker, but only because it's the last in the trilogy, it will however be my last purchase until I see things change.

Oh I'm not saying I won't buy the game.  I've had my CE reserved forever.  I'm just saying that EA/Bioware are just becoming another example of the gaming industry going bad.  I'm honestly not sure what to actually DO about it, because me personally not buying the game won't do a damn thing.  Like you said, if you lived only by principles you would never be able to enjoy anything.  Sometimes you have to be a little selfish and get some enjoyment out of life.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 24 février 2012 - 11:14 .

[AkiKishi]

Rdubs wrote...

Unethical is a strong word, I think people are pissed that they're pulling this stunt and it's leaving a bad taste with people.  It's premeditated parsing for maximum monetization.  Well within their rights, but it's almost dishonest.

Here is a rather good, and entertaining, recap of the people who aren't real happy about this.  The comments about the Blood Dragon armor are hilarious as I experienced every one.  Half a million views so far.

Thats why I can't stand CE's that sell you "game advantage" it totally screws the balance.

[Evilelf007]

Rdubs wrote...

Unethical is a strong word, I think people are pissed that they're pulling this stunt and it's leaving a bad taste with people.  It's premeditated parsing for maximum monetization.  Well within their rights, but it's almost dishonest.

Here is a rather good, and entertaining, recap of the people who aren't real happy about this.  The comments about the Blood Dragon armor are hilarious as I experienced every one.  Half a million views so far.

I seriously lol'd when I listened to that... what a joke.  Half a million views and I would bet most think he's out of his mind.

[heart again]

charginmahlaser wrote...

Evilelf007 wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Evilelf007 wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

I'm a laid back guy, but personally I tend to give a **** when companies practice bad business.  When people let that happen and say they "don't give a ****" instead of standing up and saying, "Ok, that crosses a line," the only thing that road leads to is a bleak future for creative content in which it is overpriced, soulless, and milked.

I happen to think Bioware is doing very good buisness, not unethical milking, so no sympathy coming from me who think otherwise.

Actually "good business" and "unethical milking" are not mutually exclusive.

I happen to think that there is nothing unethical going on with how Bioware is handling this at all.

How do I get to fantasy land? I'd like to live there too.

Wouldn't you rather live in the fantasy land where Bioware gives everyone extra content for free.

[AkiKishi]

DJBare wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...
That's definitely a good place to draw the line.  For me though, the trend in DLC and gaming in general that I've seen over the last 7 or so years is what causes me to draw the line.  It's not a specific point that's caused me to draw the line, it's the consistent evidence of a slippery slope to that inevitable conclusion.  This is just one more piece of the puzzle, by itself not a big deal, but placed into the context of the gaming industry quite disturbing.

And I thought I was the only one with this view on here, yup, this is where I draw the line, but I'm not going to let principle ruin my enjoyment of the last chapter of this game, yeah I'm a sucker, but only because it's the last in the trilogy, it will however be my last purchase until I see things change.

I think thats quite understandable. Console owner so I can get the game in a way that does not reward Bioware/EA £5 for an incomplete game seems about right.

Looking at the bigger picture after ME3 when people are not so invested in the game.Not going to be the same.

[Rdubs]

NoxJuked wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

NoxJuked wrote...



http://www.reddit.co...oversy_and_how/

Too bad a lot of effort was built to create this table, which kind of misses one of the important points of people's concerns, and then go on to screw it up with weak logic in the "FAQ" section.
First point: Draw out all the timelines you want for how DLC works but they are irrelevant.  Many are concerned that the Prothean squad member was designed to be an integral part of the experience but then removed at the last second to become a quick cash-grab.  That's MUCH different from thinking at the last minute (or couple months), hey let's add this guy in here as a squad member.  That the leaked Beta contained files for the Prothean character the same way all the other selectable squad members had files lends legitimacy to this concern, that it was developed all along then removed to be sold as an extra.  All of the above timelines are nice but only relevant for true DLC, not content originally developed then cut to be sold as DLC.
The second aspect has to do with, what someone previously reminded me of, the "But these amps go to 11!" rating scale.  One of the faults of the above graphic lies with the "Built to be optional for the purposes of the ME3 narrative."  The graphic even makes my argument for me, that the "DLC" has "tremendous story potential".  News flash: People love Mass Effect FOR THE STORY.  Laying out a full story with all the pieces contributing to it then claiming to draw a line at the 90% mark and say "That's the full story, anything else is extra" is bull****.  This isn't some random jackass like Zaeed who I really didn't care about since I already had 12 people like him on my squad and who really didn't add anything, this is a frikkin PROTHEAN.

So first off the problem then is that none of you who cancel preorders, rage, and want to boycott ME3 is because you don't trust in Biowares word even though you seemed to support them all these years.

Right he's a very nice squadmate well worth the 10$ combined with the clothes for the rest of the crew. I don't see a prothean though as someonething that absolutely needs to be in the game, if he does they would have added him in during the core process and we'll see soon enough on March 6th.

Legion wasn't absolutely needing to be in the ME2 game, but he made for an even more awesome experience and people would be pissed if they found out he was removed, even if they were able to interact with him in a dialogue scene or two.

Forgot about this, the other big item of fail with that chart is that it gives the incorrect impression that the programmers who would be on the Day 1 DLC team are completely different from the main production team programmers, so there are no resource constraints to have both going simultaneously.  Clearly this is incorrect.  Towards the end of a cycle the programmers are trying like hell to debug the main program, and it is the more artsy people who have the free time to work on additional content.  That is why most early DLC's, which were NOT developed along with the main game, are of the kind like appearance packs.  Creating a new character takes programming bandwidth, which is why Shale was built in as part of the main DA:O game then later broken out and same thing with Zaeed.  Both of them were free with a purchased game.  The Prothean crosses the line because it was content programmed by the main programmers (not some non-existent programming group standing by twiddling their thumbs waiting for something to work on), except this time it is being charged for.

Modifié par Rdubs, 24 février 2012 - 11:22 .

[Biotic Sage]

heart again wrote...

charginmahlaser wrote...

Evilelf007 wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Evilelf007 wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

I'm a laid back guy, but personally I tend to give a **** when companies practice bad business.  When people let that happen and say they "don't give a ****" instead of standing up and saying, "Ok, that crosses a line," the only thing that road leads to is a bleak future for creative content in which it is overpriced, soulless, and milked.

I happen to think Bioware is doing very good buisness, not unethical milking, so no sympathy coming from me who think otherwise.

Actually "good business" and "unethical milking" are not mutually exclusive.

I happen to think that there is nothing unethical going on with how Bioware is handling this at all.

How do I get to fantasy land? I'd like to live there too.

Wouldn't you rather live in the fantasy land where Bioware gives everyone extra content for free.

"Extra" is a funny little word that Bioware can put in front of anything.  They could call the final 1/3 of the actual game "extra" if they wanted to and if they sold it seperately, it would be extra.  Premeditated DLC is screwed up.  You are premeditating chopping the game up and selling its parts for more than the whole is worth.  If you develop a game and then release it, it is then ok to think about "extra."  This is a very simple concept that Bioware understands, but companies will charge whatever they can get away with until we, the consumers, draw the line.

[DJBare]

Holding back food until the starving pay more is "unethical"
Holding back game content until the consumer pays more is "irritating"

[Abe-kun]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

I feel bad for ppl in europe it's hard enough waiting for March 6th

Have to wait till March 8... going to be two very hard days of waiting ME3after you guys get it on March 6...

Modifié par Abe-kun, 24 février 2012 - 11:24 .

[Rdubs]

Biotic Sage wrote...

heart again wrote...

Wouldn't you rather live in the fantasy land where Bioware gives everyone extra content for free.

"Extra" is a funny little word that Bioware can put in front of anything.  They could call the final 1/3 of the actual game "extra" if they wanted to and if they sold it seperately, it would be extra.  Premeditated DLC is screwed up.  You are premeditating chopping the game up and selling its parts for more than the whole is worth.  If you develop a game and then release it, it is then ok to think about "extra."  This is a very simple concept that Bioware understands, but companies will charge whatever they can get away with until we, the consumers, draw the line.

I like this human.  He understands!

[nightcobra]

heart again wrote...

charginmahlaser wrote...

Evilelf007 wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Evilelf007 wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

I'm a laid back guy, but personally I tend to give a **** when companies practice bad business.  When people let that happen and say they "don't give a ****" instead of standing up and saying, "Ok, that crosses a line," the only thing that road leads to is a bleak future for creative content in which it is overpriced, soulless, and milked.

I happen to think Bioware is doing very good buisness, not unethical milking, so no sympathy coming from me who think otherwise.

Actually "good business" and "unethical milking" are not mutually exclusive.

I happen to think that there is nothing unethical going on with how Bioware is handling this at all.

How do I get to fantasy land? I'd like to live there too.

Wouldn't you rather live in the fantasy land where Bioware gives everyone extra content for free.

oh you mean the land from 2 years ago?

[Rdubs]

DJBare wrote...

Holding back food until the starving pay more is "unethical"
Holding back game content until the consumer pays more is "irritating"

DJ you really make me wish this forum had a "Like" button for posts.  Your summary here is very succinct.  +1

[sirdario1986]

DifferentD17 wrote...

MonkeySeeker wrote...

It's also possible you'll still be able to learn anything the Prothean would tell you without the DLC:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/325/index/8006985/175#9436591

sirdario1986 wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

Butcher_of_Torfan wrote...
Is Javik still in the game, but just not a squadie if the DLC isnt purchases?

He isn't in the game at all without the DLC.

Could be that you're wrong, my friend, and sorry but I really hope that! Read what Jessica Merizan answered to a direct question:

 
There's a theory going around that whatever you could've learned from this Prothean is already part of the core game, you don't need the DLC to get that content. What you do need this DLC for isto bring him along for the ride. I'm inclined to believe this, to be honest. But we won't know for certain until the game comes out.

And Jessica answered:

 
No spoilers from me, but you may[/i] be on the right train of thought with that

Though it's not confirmed of course, just a theory people have had.

Hopefully it won't be shoved in the people's faces that don't have the DLC. Like it was in DA:O

Another theory is that the "content about the Prothean" that is in the main game without DLC is just codex pages, so you can learn all informations but not be able to see Javik; it's just a theory, of course, but I hope that this evening we will know the truth! 

[NoxJuked]

Blarty wrote...

I should be surprised this debate has got to over 250 pages, but as it's BSN I'm not.

The facts are, as been said many times, a) everyone knew that there would be extra characters and missions in the CE and have known for a long time, so this is not a surprise, c) that the extra mission and character are being released (for a fee) by Bioware for people who were unable to get the CE and d) Bioware did not have to release this at all to non-CE buyers.

Although I can certainly understand peoples frustration regarding the choice of character, (surprisingly it would have been completely ok for it to be an inconsequential numb nuts of a character that you could then whinge about that being $10 because the character is pointless and not worth $10, rather than essential in your eyes, whilst being blind to the fact that either a supposedly important or pointless character are both optional to the story, gameplay and ability to complete the game satisfactorily), I also cannot subscribe to these heavy-handed rebukes at a company which has to pay people, make a profit and have that profit invested in the future of the franchise - do you work for free because someone tells you you should? - and also rebukes at people who are willing to buy DLC purchase on day 1 or otherwise.

And whilst you are all on your high horses shouting 'Pre-order cancelled', 'Last Bioware/EA game I'm going to buy', or 'I'll pirate it, and get it all free and you can have no money'.... but I bet you'd change your mind if the mob rule wins and they give you the Prothean for free... - think about this ... do you pull this kind of c r a p to the guy behind the counter when a shop offer finishes and you can no longer get 2 for 1, for instance? You may not like the Day 1 DLC, and I myself am certainly not a fan of it so I believe it is somewhat morally grey in that I can see both sides of the opinion, but the kind of thing many of you are doing is tantamount to holding the company to ransom and more or less threats to blackmail - that might seem a little strong but hey.

First of all I don't care about this true fans bought the CE BS - there are many true fans that could not afford or have access to CE - hell, I've got 2 on order with GAME and I still have no idea whether they'll actually be there to be picked up on release day. What I do believe is if you are seriously pulling these kind of tricks over a $10 optional DLC (and no, I don't care if it's a Prothean - nobody markets stuff for purchase that no-one wants - and people whose experience of Mass Effect is only through the PS3 really don't have the Prothean connection that ME1 players have) then it really is pretty low (and on a par with how low you think Bioware and EA are being), and in that sense no you're not even a reasonable fan of the franchise.... if you don't want to buy the optional DLC then by all means abstain - throwing your toys out of the pram over this is utterly incredulous, and how the people shouting about piracy and pre-order cancellations can have the audacity and unmitigated gall to wrap ransoming a company up in the concept of it being 'on principle' disgusts me.

And this is coming from someone who is getting 2 CE's and will also have to buy two extra MP passes and 2 extra Prothean DLCs on top of that.