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Mass Effect 3: From Ashes


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#6751
heart again

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Biotic Sage wrote...

heart again wrote...

charginmahlaser wrote...

Evilelf007 wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Evilelf007 wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

I'm a laid back guy, but personally I tend to give a **** when companies practice bad business.  When people let that happen and say they "don't give a ****" instead of standing up and saying, "Ok, that crosses a line," the only thing that road leads to is a bleak future for creative content in which it is overpriced, soulless, and milked.

I happen to think Bioware is doing very good buisness, not unethical milking, so no sympathy coming from me who think otherwise.


Actually "good business" and "unethical milking" are not mutually exclusive.

I happen to think that there is nothing unethical going on with how Bioware is handling this at all.


How do I get to fantasy land? I'd like to live there too.


Wouldn't you rather live in the fantasy land where Bioware gives everyone extra content for free.


"Extra" is a funny little word that Bioware can put in front of anything.  They could call the final 1/3 of the actual game "extra" if they wanted to and if they sold it seperately, it would be extra.  Premeditated DLC is screwed up.  You are premeditating chopping the game up and selling its parts for more than the whole is worth.  If you develop a game and then release it, it is then ok to think about "extra."  This is a very simple concept that Bioware understands, but companies will charge whatever they can get away with until we, the consumers, draw the line.


So then what's your excuse for not being enraged when the CE content was first announced?

#6752
Biotic Sage

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heart again wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...


So then what's your excuse for not being enraged when the CE content was first announced?


I am just as upset about that as I am about this.  I'm not "enraged" because these are first world problems.  I disagree with all of it though.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 24 février 2012 - 11:33 .


#6753
NoxJuked

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Sique Foque wrote...

Tobey2011 wrote...

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Sique Foque wrote...

DeadLetterBox wrote...

Sique Foque wrote...

You know that EVERYONE wants that Prothean, because it means a great deal to the story, even if it is just a sidequest. 



Why would they make DLC they didn't think people would want?


We aren't talking about DLC well after release, that is the significant difference. Don't be nit-picky.


Okay, it may be a little nit-picky, I concede that point.  However, the fact that DLC is available day one does not mean that it is necessary for the game to be complete.  


Actually that is exactly what it means.


Yeah, well, but we could also discuss about how you create desire on the market and how you exploit this way too much. I think the example with Legion in ME2 someone brought up is quite accurate - great experience, not essential for the story but quite enriching.

If you cut things like that out, you are not respecting your own work, that is what I think.

Maybe they should start this with movies too, cut out side stories, demand extra money.



No I don't believe a prothean is going to play as big a role as Legion. Legion is very crucial to the game as you can reprogram the geth to possibly help you in ME3 he has an army behind him. The prothean is just 1 prothean

#6754
nightcobra

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heart again wrote...

So then what's your excuse for not being enraged when the CE content was first announced?


mine would be that it was basically worded the same as the dragon age's collector edition where shale was included in the CE (also free) and then got available to all customers.
since they did the same with zaeed i'd hoped they would do the same.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

(the cerberus network counts as zaeed and various other DLC that were included)

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 24 février 2012 - 11:37 .


#6755
Evilelf007

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NoxJuked wrote...

Blarty wrote...

I should be surprised this debate has got to over 250 pages, but as it's BSN I'm not.

The facts are, as been said many times, a) everyone knew that there would be extra characters and missions in the CE and have known for a long time, so B) this is not a surprise, c) that the extra mission and character are being released (for a fee) by Bioware for people who were unable to get the CE and d) Bioware did not have to release this at all to non-CE buyers.

Although I can certainly understand peoples frustration regarding the choice of character, (surprisingly it would have been completely ok for it to be an inconsequential numb nuts of a character that you could then whinge about that being $10 because the character is pointless and not worth $10, rather than essential in your eyes, whilst being blind to the fact that either a supposedly important or pointless character are both optional to the story, gameplay and ability to complete the game satisfactorily), I also cannot subscribe to these heavy-handed rebukes at a company which has to pay people, make a profit and have that profit invested in the future of the franchise - do you work for free because someone tells you you should? - and also rebukes at people who are willing to buy DLC purchase on day 1 or otherwise.

And whilst you are all on your high horses shouting 'Pre-order cancelled', 'Last Bioware/EA game I'm going to buy', or 'I'll pirate it, and get it all free and you can have no money'.... but I bet you'd change your mind if the mob rule wins and they give you the Prothean for free... - think about this ... do you pull this kind of c r a p to the guy behind the counter when a shop offer finishes and you can no longer get 2 for 1, for instance? You may not like the Day 1 DLC, and I myself am certainly not a fan of it so I believe it is somewhat morally grey in that I can see both sides of the opinion, but the kind of thing many of you are doing is tantamount to holding the company to ransom and more or less threats to blackmail - that might seem a little strong but hey.

First of all I don't care about this true fans bought the CE BS - there are many true fans that could not afford or have access to CE - hell, I've got 2 on order with GAME and I still have no idea whether they'll actually be there to be picked up on release day. What I do believe is if you are seriously pulling these kind of tricks over a $10 optional DLC (and no, I don't care if it's a Prothean - nobody markets stuff for purchase that no-one wants - and people whose experience of Mass Effect is only through the PS3 really don't have the Prothean connection that ME1 players have) then it really is pretty low (and on a par with how low you think Bioware and EA are being), and in that sense no you're not even a reasonable fan of the franchise.... if you don't want to buy the optional DLC then by all means abstain - throwing your toys out of the pram over this is utterly incredulous, and how the people shouting about piracy and pre-order cancellations can have the audacity and unmitigated gall to wrap ransoming a company up in the concept of it being 'on principle' disgusts me.

And this is coming from someone who is getting 2 CE's and will also have to buy two extra MP passes and 2 extra Prothean DLCs on top of that.

One well written post!

#6756
J4N3_M3

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Thanks Mike. Looking forward to playing my ME CE and meeting the Prothean :)

#6757
DJBare

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Please edit the pyramid quotes to lessen them, especially with that image attached.

#6758
Rdubs

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NoxJuked wrote...

Blarty wrote...

I should be surprised this debate has got to over 250 pages, but as it's BSN I'm not.

The facts are, as been said many times, a) everyone knew that there would be extra characters and missions in the CE and have known for a long time, so B) this is not a surprise, c) that the extra mission and character are being released (for a fee) by Bioware for people who were unable to get the CE and d) Bioware did not have to release this at all to non-CE buyers.

Although I can certainly understand peoples frustration regarding the choice of character, (surprisingly it would have been completely ok for it to be an inconsequential numb nuts of a character that you could then whinge about that being $10 because the character is pointless and not worth $10, rather than essential in your eyes, whilst being blind to the fact that either a supposedly important or pointless character are both optional to the story, gameplay and ability to complete the game satisfactorily), I also cannot subscribe to these heavy-handed rebukes at a company which has to pay people, make a profit and have that profit invested in the future of the franchise - do you work for free because someone tells you you should? - and also rebukes at people who are willing to buy DLC purchase on day 1 or otherwise.

And whilst you are all on your high horses shouting 'Pre-order cancelled', 'Last Bioware/EA game I'm going to buy', or 'I'll pirate it, and get it all free and you can have no money'.... but I bet you'd change your mind if the mob rule wins and they give you the Prothean for free... - think about this ... do you pull this kind of c r a p to the guy behind the counter when a shop offer finishes and you can no longer get 2 for 1, for instance? You may not like the Day 1 DLC, and I myself am certainly not a fan of it so I believe it is somewhat morally grey in that I can see both sides of the opinion, but the kind of thing many of you are doing is tantamount to holding the company to ransom and more or less threats to blackmail - that might seem a little strong but hey.

First of all I don't care about this true fans bought the CE BS - there are many true fans that could not afford or have access to CE - hell, I've got 2 on order with GAME and I still have no idea whether they'll actually be there to be picked up on release day. What I do believe is if you are seriously pulling these kind of tricks over a $10 optional DLC (and no, I don't care if it's a Prothean - nobody markets stuff for purchase that no-one wants - and people whose experience of Mass Effect is only through the PS3 really don't have the Prothean connection that ME1 players have) then it really is pretty low (and on a par with how low you think Bioware and EA are being), and in that sense no you're not even a reasonable fan of the franchise.... if you don't want to buy the optional DLC then by all means abstain - throwing your toys out of the pram over this is utterly incredulous, and how the people shouting about piracy and pre-order cancellations can have the audacity and unmitigated gall to wrap ransoming a company up in the concept of it being 'on principle' disgusts me.

And this is coming from someone who is getting 2 CE's and will also have to buy two extra MP passes and 2 extra Prothean DLCs on top of that.


Misses the point, has to do with having the full ME experience that people care about.  Zaeed: don't care.  Kasumi: Nice, but don't care.  Prothean: Hell yeah!  Critical to the story background.  It's not complaining that some kind of "two for one" deal ended, it's about buying a car you expect to be awesome and then as he's about to hand you they keys he says, you know we have this option called power windows that you can get for $1000 extra.  That would ****** most people off, people would rather pay the $1000 more up front and be told about it than be hit up at checkout for content they'd want.

Again it's the premeditated withholding of content integrated into the main game to try and squeeze people a little more.  And no, just because someone labels the content "DLC" does not mean it was developed far afterwards and completely separately from the main game, wake up.

#6759
Rdubs

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Biotic Sage wrote...

"Extra" is a funny little word that Bioware can put in front of anything.  They could call the final 1/3 of the actual game "extra" if they wanted to and if they sold it seperately, it would be extra.  Premeditated DLC is screwed up.  You are premeditating chopping the game up and selling its parts for more than the whole is worth.  If you develop a game and then release it, it is then ok to think about "extra."  This is a very simple concept that Bioware understands, but companies will charge whatever they can get away with until we, the consumers, draw the line.



#6760
heart again

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nightcobra8928 wrote...

heart again wrote...


So then what's your excuse for not being enraged when the CE content was first announced?


mine would be that it was basically worded the same as the dragon age's collector edition where shale was included in the CE (also free) and then got available to all customers.
since they did the same with zaeed i'd hoped they would do the same.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

(the cerberus network counts as zaeed and various other DLC that were included)


So what you are saying is that you stuck your head in the sand and hoped it would change?

#6761
nightcobra

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heart again wrote...


So what you are saying is that you stuck your head in the sand and hoped it would change?


quite the contrary, i hoped it would stay the same.

#6762
Evilelf007

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Premeditated how? Nothing premeditated about withholding content here. The Prothean was NOT part of the core story of ME3, and was completed after as bonus content that most of which was originally cut from the script and re-written.

#6763
Rdubs

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NoxJuked wrote...

No I don't believe a prothean is going to play as big a role as Legion. Legion is very crucial to the game as you can reprogram the geth to possibly help you in ME3 he has an army behind him. The prothean is just 1 prothean


"Just 1 Prothean."  LOL.  How far we've fallen.

#6764
OdanUrr

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I have an idea. How about a free "Build your own Reaper" DLC?:o

#6765
Xellana

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Thank you Bioware for this fan service dlc!

But why didn´t you also make a "From the Dark beyond" DLC where I can take a reaper into my party and charge 100$ for it?
That would be even better fan service. It would give me the opportunity to give you 100$ more AND I could walk around with shepy, prothy and reapy! How cool would that be?

#6766
Megakoresh

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Michael Gamble wrote...
I've read all 96 pages of this thread. Contrary to popular thoughts, we really do care what you guys have to say.


Then why don't you tell us how crucial a Prothean is to the story. It is a Prothean. Not an angry Mercenary that makes love with an old assault rifle!

#6767
heart again

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nightcobra8928 wrote...

heart again wrote...


So what you are saying is that you stuck your head in the sand and hoped it would change?


quite the contrary, i hoped it would stay the same.


In truth it wasn't like that to begin with as far as ME3 is concerned though.

#6768
nightcobra

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heart again wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

heart again wrote...


So what you are saying is that you stuck your head in the sand and hoped it would change?


quite the contrary, i hoped it would stay the same.


In truth it wasn't like that to begin with as far as ME3 is concerned though.


then direct me to where in the poster the offers are worded differently or better yet direct me to the developer's own word that this was how it was going to be from the start, actual quotes, not assumptions.

#6769
LavosOmega1880

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How the hell is a freakin' Prothean 'non critical to the story'? Anyone with with half an attention span knows Protheans are the most important race in current ME history, especially given their connection with the Reapers.

#6770
Rdubs

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Evilelf007 wrote...

Premeditated how? Nothing premeditated about withholding content here. The Prothean was NOT part of the core story of ME3, and was completed after as bonus content that most of which was originally cut from the script and re-written.


Again C-Hud's tweets are not really an unbiased, impartial source of information.  He and all of Bioware will say whatever they need to in order to try and do damage control as best they can.  I don't begrudge them, it's their job and except for fiascos like this they do it well.  But having a thought pattern of "It's labeled DLC so it must have been developed afterwards, plus Casey said so in a tweet" isn't really critical independent thinking.

Modifié par Rdubs, 24 février 2012 - 11:48 .


#6771
J.amber

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i haven't looked at that video, people keep posting .. but does the video start with advertising? or something on his page like that ... you people do realize, that the people who create video or vid blogs w/e usually have an agreement with youtube right .. they actually make money from youtube lol (mind you only the ones who get crazy amounts of views on all their video's) so if this guy who posted that video is one of them that get paid, he's gonna be as dramatic as possible to get lots of views b/c that means $ for him lol

#6772
DeadLetterBox

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I know... how about some free Blasto DLC?

#6773
Siran

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It's called "Take Earth Back".

Not "Take Prothy Back" (or whatever their homeworld was called)

#6774
DJBare

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Siran wrote...

It's called "Take Earth Back".

Not "Take Ilos Back" (or whatever their homeworld was called)

There ya go.

#6775
heart again

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nightcobra8928 wrote...

heart again wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

heart again wrote...


So what you are saying is that you stuck your head in the sand and hoped it would change?


quite the contrary, i hoped it would stay the same.


In truth it wasn't like that to begin with as far as ME3 is concerned though.


then direct me to where in the poster the offers are worded differently or better yet direct me to the developer's own word that this was how it was going to be from the start, actual quotes, not assumptions.


You want to talk about assumptions???  You were the one who assumed that for some reason one specific thing listed on the CE features would be included in the SE.:pinched: