13369 réponses à ce sujet

[Daywalker315]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

The point is they were not forthright about the content that was being included in the CE. It was quite reasonable for people to assume that the mystery character was some superfluous "bonus" like Zaeed or Katsumi, not an important part of the galactic lore.

And even that's not really the issue, because the real point is that NOBODY should have to pay for that kind of important content.

YOU think it's important. BioWare thinks it's optional and I trust them. It will have no bearing or extra impact on the main story of ME3, which is killing Reapers, not "learn more about the dead race".

The day 1 DLC could have been a human squad mate that was even important to the main story somehow and no one would have cared. But a Prothean who will have zero true impact on the main story and everyone gets butthurt syndrome and claims it's important. If it's important to you, buy it. We CE owners shelled out extra for it months ago, you should too.

Also, it was not reasonable to assume it would be another Zaeed. The leak said Prothean, they said "oh that's old text". Anyone with a brain understands the plan is still a Prothean but they wanted to reveal it closer to launch when it has more impact.

Modifié par Daywalker315, 24 février 2012 - 02:26 .

[heart again]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...
 It was quite reasonable for people to assume that the mystery character was some superfluous "bonus" like Zaeed or Katsumi.

So because it may not be as useless as they assumed it suddenly is owed to them?  Sorry thats not how it works.

[Klimy]

 I tried to see reason and logic in this ever going discussion, but as always it can be summed up as:
YouTube Clip

[AkiKishi]

[quote]GnusmasTHX wrote...
Eh ? Sure it can. That only refers to the state of release.

Patches etc come later. [/quote]

But you can infer that if a game needs to be patched in the future, in needed to be patched upon release.

Or is this issue entirely the time frame in which post-release releases are released? 

[/quote]

I think that speaks more to the quality of games these days. It's not something that should be required.

Well Day 2 DLC would be cynical. DLC should probably not crop up will after the first week-month. The problem with ME3 is this. They are offering 2 versions complte CE incomplete SE on release.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 24 février 2012 - 02:26 .

[OdanUrr]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

I quote it again not only because of the message it conveys, but also for the manner in which it is presented.

You mean that it's confrontational and insulting? Why is it that the posts that get clapped on the BSN are the ones that end up insulting someone? While I agree with many of the points raised, I believe he could've phrased them in a more civil manner. But that's not going to happen, right? Because you need to curse to draw attention. By all means, keep at it.

Why is it insulting at all? It's text.

It's no one you care about talking about things in a way you disagree with.

It's insulting because you allow it to be.

There's a word for this. But regardless, it's funny, that's why. Hyperbole tends to be funny to some people. Sue us.

Because text never hurt anyone's feelings, right? Especially in recent days.

I'm sorry, I thought that words like "moron" and "d!ckhead" were meant to be insults but I suppose that's because I allow them to be too.

[ZX12r Ninja]

Lorfean wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

Lorfean wrote...

obie191970 wrote...
You got the Stone Prisoner, but they did the same thing with Warden's Keep which was included in the CE and $7 for everyone else as day 1 DLC.  Not only had the precedent been sent by Bioware, they told everyone that the bonus character and mission would be available as Day 1 DLC to those who didn't purchase the CE.

Warden's Keep didn't include a recruitable squad member -- it was a short mission that was seperate from the main story and didn't effect the overall experience of the game; a big difference compared to The Stone Prisoner DLC that included Shale who was part of your team for the rest of the entire game. Don't you see the difference between offering a side-mission, that you finish and then move on, and offering a squad member? These games are build around the player's crew -- they are such a big part of the experience. And this is a Prothean! A member of an immensly interesting and mysterious race. That's why I have a problem with not everyone getting this guy by default.

And what exactly *are* we getting with our standard version? We got The Stone Prisoner with DA:O and The Cerberus Network with ME2... BioWare set that precedent, too. So, what are we getting with ME3? The multiplayer component. Right.

So you expect to be showered with free gifts and extras for spending $60 on a video game?  Not only that, but you get to choose which extras you deem worthy?  I'm not a supporter of Day 1 DLC but it is pretty much standard practice in the industry now and it surely isn't going away.

I don't expect to be "showered with gifts" at all, but I expect BioWare to understand that denying players a squad member because they chose to buy the standard version of the game instead of one of the fancy pimped up versions is a stupid-ass move. I don't care if CE buyers get extra weapons, hoodies, dogs that follow them around... I could even accept a side mission or two of some kind, but squad members are an integral part of the game and this guy is extremely interesting lore-wise and his mission has great nostalgic potential for any longtime fan of the series. *That* is what I have a problem with. Everything considered, the content sounds like it definitely *should* be part of the full experience, but it isn't.

Why is it a stupid ass move? It's not like it's playable or adds something significant like Zaeed or Kasumi. The only thing it adds rightnow is the psychological extra for ou personally of being able to have a Prothean on your squad.

Modifié par ZX12r Ninja, 24 février 2012 - 02:28 .

[nitefyre410]

Lorfean wrote...

I don't expect to be "showered with gifts" at all, but I expect BioWare to understand that denying players a squad member because they chose to buy the standard version of the game instead of one of the fancy pimped up versions is a stupid-ass move. I don't care if CE buyers get extra weapons, hoodies, dogs that follow them around... I could even accept a side mission or two of some kind, but squad members are an integral part of the game and this guy is extremely interesting lore-wise and his mission has great nostalgic potential for any longtime fan of the series. *That* is what I have a problem with. Everything considered, the content sounds like it definitely *should* be part of the full experience, but it isn't.

 

^   He gets it...

[Blarty]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...
Just stop. We get what you're trying to say but your argument holds no validity. "You never paid for it" ... wrong. I purchased the CE almost exclusively because of the squad mate. I ordered back in July and that was the thing that changed my mind from the SE. Granted, I saw some in-game items and things that would be cool to have but without the DLC I never would have bought the CE. So don't try to tell me I didn't pay for it. That's incredibly self-righteous and you simply have no clue what our motivations were for spending that extra money.

Also, you don't have any "right" as you say to definitively say what is complete or not either. You're entitled to your opinion of course. However, if BioWare says the core game is perfectly full of stuff and the DLC is non-essential to the main story of Shepard killing Reapers, then I believe them. There's so much mistrust flying around here, it's ridiculous.

It's a listed as a bonus I'm not telling you anything that's just how things work. You pay for exclusives not bonuses by definition a bonus is an extra.

I'm using complete as it's defined

Do you buy extras when you buy a car (using a car as it's merely another type of customisable consumer purchase)?....
Do you feel that the car is incomplete because it does not have a sun-roof?
Do you argue with the manager of the showroom showing him that as this car has a spoiler and this one doesn't that the one that doesn't is inferior without taking into account that the one with the spoiler costs more even though he has the raw nerve to infer that the car without either spoiler or sunroof is 'complete'?

Do you then proceed to quoth a monologue on misselling which ends up in you more or less saying that as the one with the spoiler is the 'complete' version and that the manager is advertising a 'complete' car the version that comes with the spoiler matches the description and should therefore be the one that is sold at the same price as the car without a spoiler or sun-roof?

[PSUHammer]

What's funny about this thread is te same point keep getting repeated. No one listens or reads what came before. That's whhy these things spiral out of control.

[GnusmasTHX]

OdanUrr wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

I quote it again not only because of the message it conveys, but also for the manner in which it is presented.

You mean that it's confrontational and insulting? Why is it that the posts that get clapped on the BSN are the ones that end up insulting someone? While I agree with many of the points raised, I believe he could've phrased them in a more civil manner. But that's not going to happen, right? Because you need to curse to draw attention. By all means, keep at it.

Why is it insulting at all? It's text.

It's no one you care about talking about things in a way you disagree with.

It's insulting because you allow it to be.

There's a word for this. But regardless, it's funny, that's why. Hyperbole tends to be funny to some people. Sue us.

Because text never hurt anyone's feelings, right? Especially in recent days.

I'm sorry, I thought that words like "moron" and "d!ckhead" were meant to be insults but I suppose that's because I allow them to be too.

You don't decide what the words mean, but how they affect you.

I, personally, find it amusing when people I don't care about get "that way" with me, and break down when it's a friend or family member. Simply how it is. It's the internet, you signed on for stuff like this. And even then, it's a far cry from a personal attack. 

[Daywalker315]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Lorfean wrote...

I don't expect to be "showered with gifts" at all, but I expect BioWare to understand that denying players a squad member because they chose to buy the standard version of the game instead of one of the fancy pimped up versions is a stupid-ass move. I don't care if CE buyers get extra weapons, hoodies, dogs that follow them around... I could even accept a side mission or two of some kind, but squad members are an integral part of the game and this guy is extremely interesting lore-wise and his mission has great nostalgic potential for any longtime fan of the series. *That* is what I have a problem with. Everything considered, the content sounds like it definitely *should* be part of the full experience, but it isn't.

 

^   He gets it...

^No he doesn't, and neither do you. He said "denying players a squad member". Wrong. No one is denying anybody anything. You can buy it as DLC. That is not being denied something. That is just being asked to pay extra for extra content that is non-essential to the main story of ME3, which is killing reapers, not "learning more about the guys who died out 50,000 years ago".

[ZX12r Ninja]

Lorfean wrote...

ZX12r Ninja wrote...

Lorfean wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

Lorfean wrote...

obie191970 wrote...
You got the Stone Prisoner, but they did the same thing with Warden's Keep which was included in the CE and $7 for everyone else as day 1 DLC.  Not only had the precedent been sent by Bioware, they told everyone that the bonus character and mission would be available as Day 1 DLC to those who didn't purchase the CE.

Warden's Keep didn't include a recruitable squad member -- it was a short mission that was seperate from the main story and didn't effect the overall experience of the game; a big difference compared to The Stone Prisoner DLC that included Shale who was part of your team for the rest of the entire game. Don't you see the difference between offering a side-mission, that you finish and then move on, and offering a squad member? These games are build around the player's crew -- they are such a big part of the experience. And this is a Prothean! A member of an immensly interesting and mysterious race. That's why I have a problem with not everyone getting this guy by default.

And what exactly *are* we getting with our standard version? We got The Stone Prisoner with DA:O and The Cerberus Network with ME2... BioWare set that precedent, too. So, what are we getting with ME3? The multiplayer component. Right.

So you expect to be showered with free gifts and extras for spending $60 on a video game?  Not only that, but you get to choose which extras you deem worthy?  I'm not a supporter of Day 1 DLC but it is pretty much standard practice in the industry now and it surely isn't going away.

I don't expect to be "showered with gifts" at all, but I expect BioWare to understand that denying players a squad member because they chose to buy the standard version of the game instead of one of the fancy pimped up versions is a stupid-ass move. I don't care if CE buyers get extra weapons, hoodies, dogs that follow them around... I could even accept a side mission or two of some kind, but squad members are an integral part of the game and this guy is extremely interesting lore-wise and his mission has great nostalgic potential for any longtime fan of the series. *That* is what I have a problem with. Everything considered, the content sounds like it definitely *should* be part of the full experience, but it isn't.

Why is it a stupid ass move? It's not like it's playable or adds something significant like Zaeed or Kasumi. The only thing it adds rightnow is the psychological extra for ou personally of being able to have a Prothean on your squad.

Did you even read my post? The Prothean is a squad member... Just like Zaeed and Kasumi.

Yeah and what did Zaeed or Katsumi have to add to the lore?

[Blarty]

What I love about this thread, is that you want DLC to be important otherwise you'll whinge it's a cynical cash-grab and it's not worth the money, but you don't want it to be important because then you don't want to feel like it's somehow pressuring you to buy it, thus making it a cynical cash-grab.

[heart again]

Daywalker315 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Lorfean wrote...

I don't expect to be "showered with gifts" at all, but I expect BioWare to understand that denying players a squad member because they chose to buy the standard version of the game instead of one of the fancy pimped up versions is a stupid-ass move. I don't care if CE buyers get extra weapons, hoodies, dogs that follow them around... I could even accept a side mission or two of some kind, but squad members are an integral part of the game and this guy is extremely interesting lore-wise and his mission has great nostalgic potential for any longtime fan of the series. *That* is what I have a problem with. Everything considered, the content sounds like it definitely *should* be part of the full experience, but it isn't.

 

^   He gets it...

^No he doesn't, and neither do you. He said "denying players a squad member". Wrong. No one is denying anybody anything. You can buy it as DLC. That is not being denied something. That is just being asked to pay extra for extra content that is non-essential to the main story of ME3, which is killing reapers, not "learning more about the guys who died out 50,000 years ago".

^He gets it...


I feel so clever 

[Exia001]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

eoinnx02 wrote...

Is the trailer today?

I believe so, my love.

What trailer? New one?

[Daywalker315]

Blarty wrote...

What I love about this thread, is that you want DLC to be important otherwise you'll whinge it's a cynical cash-grab and it's not worth the money, but you don't want it to be important because then you don't want to feel like it's somehow pressuring you to buy it, thus making it a cynical cash-grab.

This. So many times this. There will be no pleasing the BSN!

[MonkeySeeker]

heart again wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Lorfean wrote...

I don't expect to be "showered with gifts" at all, but I expect BioWare to understand that denying players a squad member because they chose to buy the standard version of the game instead of one of the fancy pimped up versions is a stupid-ass move. I don't care if CE buyers get extra weapons, hoodies, dogs that follow them around... I could even accept a side mission or two of some kind, but squad members are an integral part of the game and this guy is extremely interesting lore-wise and his mission has great nostalgic potential for any longtime fan of the series. *That* is what I have a problem with. Everything considered, the content sounds like it definitely *should* be part of the full experience, but it isn't.

 

^   He gets it...

^No he doesn't, and neither do you. He said "denying players a squad member". Wrong. No one is denying anybody anything. You can buy it as DLC. That is not being denied something. That is just being asked to pay extra for extra content that is non-essential to the main story of ME3, which is killing reapers, not "learning more about the guys who died out 50,000 years ago".

^He gets it...

I feel so clever 

You are. Do you know why?

You get it

[OdanUrr]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

You don't decide what the words mean, but how they affect you.

I, personally, find it amusing when people I don't care about get "that way" with me, and break down when it's a friend or family member. Simply how it is. It's the internet, you signed on for stuff like this. And even then, it's a far cry from a personal attack. 

So, what you're saying is that, since I can expect a lot of people to be rude to me, I should be rude too?

Modifié par OdanUrr, 24 février 2012 - 02:40 .

[Klimy]

Daywalker315 wrote...

Blarty wrote...

What I love about this thread, is that you want DLC to be important otherwise you'll whinge it's a cynical cash-grab and it's not worth the money, but you don't want it to be important because then you don't want to feel like it's somehow pressuring you to buy it, thus making it a cynical cash-grab.

This. So many times this. There will be no pleasing the BSN!

Back in an old days when BSN was still just a forum, people here were nice, civilized and polite. But then they got an arrow in a knee... 

[GnusmasTHX]

Exia001 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

eoinnx02 wrote...

Is the trailer today?

I believe so, my love.

What trailer? New one?

The Prothean was slated for reveal this Friday, but then the leak. Then Mike said they'd be revealing him in the future, but never reiterated if it was still Friday.

OdanUrr wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

You don't decide what the words mean, but how they affect you.

I, personally, find it amusing when people I don't care about get "that way" with me, and break down when it's a friend or family member. Simply how it is. It's the internet, you signed on for stuff like this. And even then, it's a far cry from a personal attack. 

So, what you're saying is that, since I can expect a lot of people to be rude to me, I should be rude to?[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie]

Not at all, just don't be immediately and overly offended when you perceive other people to be. To me, it just sounded like hyperbole. "Online rating may vary" and all that.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 24 février 2012 - 02:41 .

[Evilelf007]

What did Kasumi and her mission add? Did you miss all of the astonishing stolen objects in that vault? That's some serious lore about the ME universe!

Zaeed was basically an origin story of one of the largest crime syndicates in the galaxy...

Yeah, they didn't provide any ME lore at all...

[sirdario1986]

Exia001 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

eoinnx02 wrote...

Is the trailer today?

I believe so, my love.

What trailer? New one?

Trailer about the DLC this topic is about...oh,well, maybe this topic isn't really about From Ashes...

[Rdubs]

heart again wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

heart again wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

I agree with you in principle - if the Prothean squaddie basically has nothing to say, and doesn't go into his story, and just shoots people saying "target down", then yeah what's the big deal.  But if it's a character who by joining you can talk to and get story out of - and I don't see how that WON'T be possible seeing as how he comes with his own mission - then it's important lore content and at that point it crosses the line into something which should be included with the main game.

Did you miss DJBare's spoiler post a little while back?

I read it, and how does it make up for the content you won't be experiencing with him during such events as his mission?

Simply because of the fact that the CE always had a bonus character and mission included?  Yeah yeah yeah, everyone assumed the character would be nothing interesting, as if that's an argument.

No that wasn't it, go back a bit.