13369 réponses à ce sujet

[OdanUrr]

Daywalker315 wrote...

In fairness Rdubs, a lot of us didn't just find out a couple days ago. There was a leak about it 9 months ago and they changed the wording but anyone with common sense that saw that initial post expected it would be a Prothean. Not everyone, obviously, but far more than a few expected it for quite a while. Some even ordered the CE after obtaining that knowledge that it was most likely a Prothean. Just food for thought.

That argument wouldn't hold in a court of law since Bioware didn't actually announce (before recently and ahead of schedule) what the bonus content would be about. Plus, common sense is the least common of all senses.

[Jonathan Shepard]

From what I've seen by skimming about half this thread, it's the same arguments over and over. Rather than picking a fight with any of those arguments, I'l just plop down my 2 cents. I'm on my phone, so please forgive the lack of direct quotes and formatting issues.

From Gamble's original post, where he mentions BioWare wanted "to make this content available to everyone" it seems as though the From Ashes content was originally slated to be available only through the N7 edition.

While keeping something as important as a Prothean restricted to a limited set of copies seems wrong, it IS the collector's edition, and it has exclusive bonuses. I pre-ordered the N7 edition back in December. Because of that, I'm getting a bonus. A lot of bonuses! But should something so seemingly important as a Prothean be relegated to just a bonus? Is he really that nonessential?

What if he's still in the story, but just not as a squadmate? For $10, yes, he seems ridiculously expensive. But he's got in addition to the usual character, mission, and weapon a set of outfits for all squadmates.
Kasumi was $7. An appearance pack is what? $3 for 3 outfits? So, rather than selling an outfit for a dollar a piece, they're giving you roughly the same quantity of content (with presumably better quality given the nature of a prothean) for the same price, and then for tacking on something like 7 or 8 outfits for the price of 3.

Pricewise, looking at precedence, the DLC is fine. Ethically? Can't say I like the slippery slope BioWare is on with this. I get it anyway, but I feel for those who don't. Best solution would've been to include it with all preorders, akin to the signature edition of DA2 innmy opinion.

We'll see what happens. But selling DLC before the game is even out seems... shifty. :/

[obie191970]

Xellana wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

Xellana wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

Everyone on here is attempting to pump up the significance of the Prothean to the main story when it's obvious that the writers have deemed him insignificant. Otherwise, he wouldn't be DLC and would be included as a squad member in the main game.

that is as sad as it is true

I don't think it's sad, as I mentioned earlier, the Protheans pretty much become irrelevant after your conversations with Sovereign and Vigil.  They become no more important than the Humans, Asari, Krogan, etc.  They're just one of numerous victims to the Reapers.

only if you view the story just as the main plot to defeat the reapers.
If you look at the universe of ME, a prothean still would HAVE to be a great deal. The Hanar worship them as gods for example. And almost everyone in this universe beliefs they built the citadel and the mass relays.
If Shepard startet to walk around with a living prothean, the universe in ME would be turned upsidedown.

Well, seeing the Reapers are now parked on Piccadilly Circus, I think the cat's out the bag on that one.

[rainasa]

nitefyre410 wrote...


Exactly   they should have just cut him out completely  and either A .  not do it ... or  B.  Do it as an Add on  later(like a month). They could have even put the DLC  redeemable code in CE box by the time  come out  none would have cared.   Capcom pulled the same game plan with MVC 3 and it worked to nigh prefection.

you're putting words into my mouth, I disagree with JAVICK being the squadmate, not the fact that it is day one dlc.

From ashes was developed by the DLC team AFTER the game went into certification to be made avaliable in the CE and as day one dlc, it was never meant to be in the original game in any way, shape, or form.

bioware has no reason to give it to you for free at all. nor do you or anyone else have any right to demand it like you are.

Modifié par rainasa, 24 février 2012 - 03:52 .

[Rdubs]

Blarty wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...
Just stop. We get what you're trying to say but your argument holds no validity. "You never paid for it" ... wrong. I purchased the CE almost exclusively because of the squad mate. I ordered back in July and that was the thing that changed my mind from the SE. Granted, I saw some in-game items and things that would be cool to have but without the DLC I never would have bought the CE. So don't try to tell me I didn't pay for it. That's incredibly self-righteous and you simply have no clue what our motivations were for spending that extra money.

Also, you don't have any "right" as you say to definitively say what is complete or not either. You're entitled to your opinion of course. However, if BioWare says the core game is perfectly full of stuff and the DLC is non-essential to the main story of Shepard killing Reapers, then I believe them. There's so much mistrust flying around here, it's ridiculous.

It's a listed as a bonus I'm not telling you anything that's just how things work. You pay for exclusives not bonuses by definition a bonus is an extra.

I'm using complete as it's defined

Do you buy extras when you buy a car (using a car as it's merely another type of customisable consumer purchase)?....
Do you feel that the car is incomplete because it does not have a sun-roof?
Do you argue with the manager of the showroom showing him that as this car has a spoiler and this one doesn't that the one that doesn't is inferior without taking into account that the one with the spoiler costs more even though he has the raw nerve to infer that the car without either spoiler or sunroof is 'complete'?

Do you then proceed to quoth a monologue on misselling which ends up in you more or less saying that as the one with the spoiler is the 'complete' version and that the manager is advertising a 'complete' car the version that comes with the spoiler matches the description and should therefore be the one that is sold at the same price as the car without a spoiler or sun-roof?

Are any of those features important to you, and the salesman told you this car would have all the important features you want? 
People trying to weasel to Bioware's defense are both LOL'ing and killing me here.  The issue isn't is it "complete" as in does it have every possible little thing.  The issue is, does it have all of the important pieces of content and lore.  New version of shotgun: No.  Prothean: Yes.  Again think of if good dialogue and squad mate Legion was only offered as DLC the day you bought the game.

[Errationatus]

Y'know, my only real consolation in all this is how fck'n stupid this thread is going to appear when it's all said and done, my contributions included.

"Never attempt to teach a pig to sing, it just wastes your time and annoys the pig."

Yee-up.

I started a not-serious thread to attempt to make a point (and run a little experiment) and it instantly degenerated into... well, this thread.  Amazing what irrationality can get you.  I suppose it is its own reward.

If nothing else, it shows how utterly important this subject truly is, and I sincerely hope everyone posting here, there and everywhere on this particular outrage gets precisely what he, she or other they think they deserve.

Me?  The whole thing gives me a headache, and I think I'll go do something more productive, like drop cinder blocks on my feet or whip my genitalia with razorwire. 

Hey -*shrug* it kills an afternoon.

Modifié par JakeMacDon, 24 février 2012 - 03:56 .

[Rdubs]

Daywalker315 wrote...

^No he doesn't, and neither do you. He said "denying players a squad member". Wrong. No one is denying anybody anything. You can buy it as DLC. That is not being denied something. That is just being asked to pay extra for extra content that is non-essential to the main story of ME3, which is killing reapers, not "learning more about the guys who died out 50,000 years ago".

Here we have the crux of the issue.  Fans of the series would consider "learning more about the guys who died out 50,000 years ago" to be a CRITICAL part of the lore and story.  I can see why people who only got into it with the PS3 might think otherwise.  But there should be a rule, if you didn't play the original ME, don't chime in on Prothean content being an integral part of the story.

[rainasa]

Rdubs wrote...

Are any of those features important to you, and the salesman told you this car would have all the important features you want? 
People trying to weasel to Bioware's defense are both LOL'ing and killing me here.  The issue isn't is it "complete" as in does it have every possible little thing.  The issue is, does it have all of the important pieces of content and lore.  New version of shotgun: No.  Prothean: Yes.  Again think of if good dialogue and squad mate Legion was only offered as DLC the day you bought the game.

exept it has been stated repeatedly that you can get the infomation that you get from Javick and his mission elsewhere in the actual game so that argument really doesnt work.

[BaronIveagh]

Daywalker315 wrote...

It's been danced around by BioWare reps because they're waiting to reveal and don't want spoilers that could hurt DLC sales but basically it's understood (by those who aren't blinded by rage) that the lore and info regarding the Protheans will come out one way or another whether you have the DLC or not. There will be other avenues of obtaining the information.

Sorry, I'll believe that when pigs fly, because we've all been lied to by those same EA reps (let's be honest, the Bioware we knew is gone, only EA remains) too many times at this point.

And, frankly, I've seen enough rabid fanboys declaring they don't care if the EULA gives EA the right to give them cancer, take their medial insurance money, and suck out their souls as long as they give them ME3. I mean, frankly, I've seen crack ****s with more dignity.

[MissOuJ]

rainasa wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...


Exactly   they should have just cut him out completely  and either A .  not do it ... or  B.  Do it as an Add on  later(like a month). They could have even put the DLC  redeemable code in CE box by the time  come out  none would have cared.   Capcom pulled the same game plan with MVC 3 and it worked to nigh prefection.

you're putting words into my mouth, I disagree with JAVICK being the squadmate, not the fact that it is day one dlc.

From ashes was developed by the DLC team AFTER the game went into certification to be made avaliable in the CE and as day one dlc, it was never meant to be in the original game in any way, shape, or form.

bioware has no reason to give it to you for free at all. nor do you or anyone else have any right to demand it like you are.

In all fairness, he apparently had a bigger role in the earlier drafts and was later dropped, and then (probably) picked up again by the guys working on the DLCs. Still doesn't make him "essential part of the core game", tho.

BTW, here's an interesting post on the Escapist by a developer who's familiar with the industry. It's a really interesting read, and explains a bit how DLC works. It's old, but still topical.

Modifié par MissOuJ, 24 février 2012 - 03:56 .

[Martin the Warrior]

What people expect the Prothean to be:
*Shepard enters a mysterious ruin, presses a mysterious button and the Prothean emerges from his stasis pod like Lazarus from the tomb*
Prothean: I am The Enkindler! Behold, I shall give thee detailed instructions on how to pwn the Reapers!
Gamers: FUUUUUUUUU... I HAD TO PAY EXTRA MONEYS FOR THIS CRUCIAL THINGY THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE VANILLA GAME!!! *RAGEFACE*

What the Prothean is going to be:
*Shepard enters a mysterious ruin, presses a mysterious button and the Prothean stumbles from his stasis pod like a guy waking up from a drunken stupor.
Prothean: What happened?
Shepard: O.O Dude, you've been in stasis for the past 50,000 years.
Prothean: 50,000 years? But that would mean... Oh sh!t, the Reapers are back! I put myself in stasis to try to get away from them!
Shepard: So you don't have any ideas on how I could possibly beat them?
Prothean: They wiped out my entire species and turned them into monsters; I don't have a f***ing clue how to beat them!
Gamers: FUUUUUU... PROTHEAN SHOULD HAVE BEEN REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT AND TOLD US HOW TO BEAT THE REAPERS!!! *RAGEFACE*

[Candidate 88766]

rainasa wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...


Exactly   they should have just cut him out completely  and either A .  not do it ... or  B.  Do it as an Add on  later(like a month). They could have even put the DLC  redeemable code in CE box by the time  come out  none would have cared.   Capcom pulled the same game plan with MVC 3 and it worked to nigh prefection.

you're putting words into my mouth, I disagree with JAVICK being the squadmate, not the fact that it is day one dlc.

From ashes was developed by the DLC team AFTER the game went into certification to be made avaliable in the CE and as day one dlc, it was never meant to be in the original game in any way, shape, or form.

bioware has no reason to give it to you for free at all. nor do you or anyone else have any right to demand it like you are.

This is how I feel. I don't really mind that something finished after the main game is being charged for.

I'm just a little annoyed that an actual live Prothean, who could've had an important story role (not something essential, but it could still have been significant) and could've had a fantastic surprise reveal is being relegated to DLC. From what I've read, he is an awesome character with some great conversations, but there is a niggling feeling that making him DLC is doing him a disservice.

[GnusmasTHX]

Martin the Warrior wrote...

ROFL. You know what I just thought of? 

The scene in Futurama that shows how Fry got into the stasis pod in the first place. Imagine if that happened to the Prothean.

[rainasa]

Rdubs wrote...

Here we have the crux of the issue.  Fans of the series would consider "learning more about the guys who died out 50,000 years ago" to be a CRITICAL part of the lore and story.  I can see why people who only got into it with the PS3 might think otherwise.  But there should be a rule, if you didn't play the original ME, don't chime in on Prothean content being an integral part of the story.

and the prothean's stoped being actually relevent at the end of ME1 as well, they where thrown into 2 just to make a cameo and to prove the point of how big and mean the repears are. you do not deserve extra and optional content to be free because you are throwing a temper tantrum.

[BaronIveagh]

MissOuJ wrote...

In all fairness, he apparently had a bigger role in the earlier drafts and was later dropped, and then (probably) picked up again by the guys working on the DLCs. Still doesn't make him "essential part of the core game", tho.

BTW, here's an interesting post on the Escapist by a developer who's familiar with the industry. It's a really interesting read, and explains a bit how DLC works. It's old, but still topical.

The problem is that's how it used to work, not how it works anymore.  I know the company I work atm for is watching this very closely, with plans to start making things like the endings of their games DLC if EA can get away with this.

[Argors]

The thing that is pissing me off about this now is the way it has been handled. I don't think I should get extra for free, I think it was a very bad movie to split a fan base with the BS line it's for are true fans that buy the CE. Then they should make dam sure they don't run out of them before everyone that wants one gets one. They split the fan base into first class and second class gamers. Yet they didn't make enough to go around.

Then they say oh but we will let you by it on day one now. So it's not just for the CE after all but if you want it you can pay more now and get it. So if I bought the CE I would be pissed off that now everyone gets it and if I bought the SE am a second class fan they are throughing a bone to if I cough up 10 bucks 1/2 the price of the CE for 1 pcs of it.

That it is a Prothean is cheap and feels like the plan all along. Put something in the CE everyone will want don't make enough CE to go around then sell it to everyone. It's a low ball move.

[LinksOcarina]

BaronIveagh wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

In all fairness, he apparently had a bigger role in the earlier drafts and was later dropped, and then (probably) picked up again by the guys working on the DLCs. Still doesn't make him "essential part of the core game", tho.

BTW, here's an interesting post on the Escapist by a developer who's familiar with the industry. It's a really interesting read, and explains a bit how DLC works. It's old, but still topical.

The problem is that's how it used to work, not how it works anymore.  I know the company I work atm for is watching this very closely, with plans to start making things like the endings of their games DLC if EA can get away with this.

Your company is missing the point then, and will never get away with that because that is something integral to the story. This DLC, the jury is still out, but once you tamper with the storyline of a game by locking out endings and beginnings, that is not worth a buy.

[rainasa]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Martin the Warrior wrote...

ROFL. You know what I just thought of? 

The scene in Futurama that shows how Fry got into the stasis pod in the first place. Imagine if that happened to the Prothean.

i vaguely remember the mod making that same joke back in the 100's

[MageCeridan]

BaronIveagh wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

It's been danced around by BioWare reps because they're waiting to reveal and don't want spoilers that could hurt DLC sales but basically it's understood (by those who aren't blinded by rage) that the lore and info regarding the Protheans will come out one way or another whether you have the DLC or not. There will be other avenues of obtaining the information.

Sorry, I'll believe that when pigs fly, because we've all been lied to by those same EA reps (let's be honest, the Bioware we knew is gone, only EA remains) too many times at this point.

And, frankly, I've seen enough rabid fanboys declaring they don't care if the EULA gives EA the right to give them cancer, take their medial insurance money, and suck out their souls as long as they give them ME3. I mean, frankly, I've seen crack ****s with more dignity.

Actually, those EULA clauses would be unenforcable(hell it would be illegal, exept in the US where the EULA = LAW).

[nitefyre410]

rainasa wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...


Exactly   they should have just cut him out completely  and either A .  not do it ... or  B.  Do it as an Add on  later(like a month). They could have even put the DLC  redeemable code in CE box by the time  come out  none would have cared.   Capcom pulled the same game plan with MVC 3 and it worked to nigh prefection.

you're putting words into my mouth, I disagree with JAVICK being the squadmate, not the fact that it is day one dlc.

From ashes was developed by the DLC team AFTER the game went into certification to be made avaliable in the CE and as day one dlc, it was never meant to be in the original game in any way, shape, or form.

bioware has no reason to give it to you for free at all. nor do you or anyone else have any right to demand it like you are.

 



I'm done argueing over whats  free , not free, whats extra content or not extra content...  Bioware can  say a playable squadmate is some Extra content/Collectors Edition content  that  can be pushed  as day 1 Paid dlc all they want.- well with in their right.  My right as consumer is not to buy into line of nonsense... You  right I don't don't deserve for it  free but  I don';t have give them money because they feel my fandom out weights my sense as consumer. So as I stated... Used  Bioware games for me hear out or they get  either no profit or  the least possilbe.  


Now - what I was talking about is  how they have handled the whole situation ... So back to what I said... Either do do wjat   YOU said and cut it completely.    Or they do what Capcom did  with MVC 3 Offer the CE buyers the SAME EXACT  DEAL ... and release   it a  month later.   Some people would flip out ...some would an raise eyebrow, some would even ask question and do some digging... but by that time  most people have moved... and the deed is done.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 24 février 2012 - 04:05 .

[rainasa]

Argors wrote...

The thing that is pissing me off about this now is the way it has been handled. I don't think I should get extra for free, I think it was a very bad movie to split a fan base with the BS line it's for are true fans that buy the CE. Then they should make dam sure they don't run out of them before everyone that wants one gets one. They split the fan base into first class and second class gamers. Yet they didn't make enough to go around.

Then they say oh but we will let you by it on day one now. So it's not just for the CE after all but if you want it you can pay more now and get it. So if I bought the CE I would be pissed off that now everyone gets it and if I bought the SE am a second class fan they are throughing a bone to if I cough up 10 bucks 1/2 the price of the CE for 1 pcs of it.

That it is a Prothean is cheap and feels like the plan all along. Put something in the CE everyone will want don't make enough CE to go around then sell it to everyone. It's a low ball move.

bioware never said that you where not a "true fan" because you didnt buy the CE, they said many long time fans would buy that version. hell its that reason why they didnt make javick exclusive to the CE for a month or so and then released him, so that people who didnt buy the CE could have the OPTION to getting him.

[woods26]

BaronIveagh wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

In all fairness, he apparently had a bigger role in the earlier drafts and was later dropped, and then (probably) picked up again by the guys working on the DLCs. Still doesn't make him "essential part of the core game", tho.

BTW, here's an interesting post on the Escapist by a developer who's familiar with the industry. It's a really interesting read, and explains a bit how DLC works. It's old, but still topical.

The problem is that's how it used to work, not how it works anymore.  I know the company I work atm for is watching this very closely, with plans to start making things like the endings of their games DLC if EA can get away with this.

I doubt that. Everyone on the internet is a doctor, game dev, actor, etc. Nice try though.

[Rdubs]

heart again wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

heart again wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

  The DLC character I was expecting was basically Zaeed 2.0, who I would ignore.  Or maybe another romance option - I certainly wasn't expecting a prothean.  

How is such an assumption a valid point at all?

Go back and read the original question and my full answer.  Your snip is out of context.  Seriously.

It took you that long to come up with that?  No, I've been keeping up with this thread and I don't see you countering points, I see you telling me to go back.

If I tell you to go back it's because I've already countered something of yours which you've missed.  I wouldn't expect the burden of repeating it be on me any less than the burden should be on you if I missed something of yours.

[spectralpulse]

I woulden't be so irritated if i could still order the CE. After ME3 Bioware has nothing on the horizon i'm interested in. Looks like this might be the end of the line for Bioware and me.