13369 réponses à ce sujet

[MageCeridan]

BaronIveagh wrote...

rainasa wrote...

for the love of all that is holy, do you know how the certification process works???
once a game begins it, it CANNOT be altered in any way. it was druing the time the DLC TEAM started to work on *gasp* DLC!!! this is not hard to understand, it was made to be extra for CE owners and people who bought the DLC, it was NEVER meant to be in the actual ME3 game.

Yeah, you can send a game in for cert, say it's complete, and then change it heavily with patches and DLC afterward, just as ratings boards can change the game's rating after certification. (I'm assuming the game's rating is the certification you are referring to, as it's not entirely clear)

Some information I have not seen myself indicates that, yes, early on the Prothean character was part of the main game. This was changed during the design phase, or so I'm led to believe. Take it with a grain of salt.

The problem here is that the Protheans and Reapers are so central to the story that most people will have a hard time buying that a live Prothean has no impact on the game, much as a reaper party member would have no impact on the game.

I think the Certification he's refering to is the PS3 / XBOX certification to allow the game to be sold for said consoles (ofcourse, PC games usually does not have that type of certification)
[EDIT] I would write perfect english, but I took a spelling mistake in the knee (yea I know the joke is old).

Modifié par MageCeridan, 24 février 2012 - 04:42 .

[rainasa]

Relix28 wrote...

Still doesn't justify charging your customers extra ON RELEASE DAY. Just look at how Zaeed and/or Shale were handled. Probably the exact same situation you described above, except everyone got it for "free" just by buying th game new.
And about this "never meant to be in the main game" BS. Frankly, this point is moot. They could have just as easily included dlc codes for the prothean in every new version of the game, and there would have been 10 time less complaining about it. Because that way it would have been perceived as an incentive to buy the game new, and not as a blatant consumer milking move.

shale and the cerberus network where not free, they where added to new copies so people would continue to buy those instead of used ones. for ME3 the alliance network and multiplayer takes that spot, so they released it as part of the CE and as DLC, they had no reason what so ever to proivde it as an incentive for anything.

[AkiKishi]

DenizYe wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Those who are happy about that, because you've got your CE edition, you are ridiculous. I have got mine, and I can understand why people are upset.

People would be more upset if it was CE exclusive, and then I'd be campaigning to make him DLC for everyone to have, because that's just fair - not everyone can get the CE, after all, and making cool extras available for everyone is just playing fair. But wanting something extra people have worked really hard for after the core game has gone to certification for free is just silly.

I'm paying €90 for the CE, and I put my pre-order in before I knew about the Prothean squadmate. I could have gotten something completely inconsequental, a la Zaeed 2.0. But now that the extra content is actually worth paying for, people are complaining about not getting him for free. <_<

Yes true. I live in Germany and I'm paying 90 Euros for the CE. Well that's 30 Euro more than the SE. So I think that this DLC is included in the price because in the USA, the CE "only" costs 20 dollars more.


30 Euro = 40 Dollar
20 Dollar = 15 Euro 
:/ I'm confused but yea. I don't think that they will change the plan for this DLC , maybe we all get some more free stuff afterwards because they feel sorry or whatever. But on point: I can't play the game and DLC and love the idea of a living prothean...

DLC costs "nothing" . That is to say once you have it you can copy it as much as you like . This is why publishers love it.
Everything else in the CE has a cost to make. Your not paying for the DLC at all. Which is why no one else should either.

[Daywalker315]

Rdubs wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

^No he doesn't, and neither do you. He said "denying players a squad member". Wrong. No one is denying anybody anything. You can buy it as DLC. That is not being denied something. That is just being asked to pay extra for extra content that is non-essential to the main story of ME3, which is killing reapers, not "learning more about the guys who died out 50,000 years ago".

Here we have the crux of the issue.  Fans of the series would consider "learning more about the guys who died out 50,000 years ago" to be a CRITICAL part of the lore and story.  I can see why people who only got into it with the PS3 might think otherwise.  But there should be a rule, if you didn't play the original ME, don't chime in on Prothean content being an integral part of the story.

I have played and completed ME1 four times and I'm a huge fan of the series. I preordered a CE back on July 10th of last year. Yet I don't see a single Prothean as being critical to the main story of ME3, which is about killing Reapers. One single survivor of a race that already lost to the Reapers is not going to turn the tide of a war. That said, it would be fun to know more about the Protheans from his perspective, which is why I'm glad I have the CE and will get it included. Anyone who feels it would be good to know those things can buy the DLC. It will be proven in 10-11 days though that he will have no significant impact on the main storyline of this particular game, though. I'm sure of it.

[MissOuJ]

Relix28 wrote...

Still doesn't justify charging your customers extra ON RELEASE DAY. Just look at how Zaeed and/or Shale were handled. Probably the exact same situation you described above, except everyone got it for "free" just by buying th game new.
And about this "never meant to be in the main game" BS. Frankly, this point is moot. They could have just as easily included dlc codes for the prothean in every new version of the game, and there would have been 10 time less complaining about it. Because that way it would have been perceived as an incentive to buy the game new, and not as a blatant consumer milking move.

But they have another incentive for new buyers this round, and that's the multiplayer (if I understood the "unboxing video correctly, you won't be able to access the full online multiplayer if you buy used) - so From Ashes is more like Soldier's Peak in DAO, hence comparing the Prothean to Zaeed is invalid.

[Sylvianus]

MissOuJ wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Those who are happy about that, because you've got your CE edition, you are ridiculous. I have got mine, and I can understand why people are upset.

People would be more upset if it was CE exclusive, and then I'd be campaigning to make him DLC for everyone to have, because that's just fair - not everyone can get the CE, after all, and making cool extras available for everyone is just playing fair. But wanting something extra people have worked really hard for after the core game has gone to certification for free is just silly.

I'm paying €90 for the CE, and I put my pre-order in before I knew about the Prothean squadmate. I could have gotten something completely inconsequental, a la Zaeed 2.0. But now that the extra content is actually worth paying for, people are complaining about not getting him for free. {smilie}

It isn't extra, it is something that should be already in the game. The prothean squadmate will learn you many things about his people, ( What nobody knows but want to learn since the beginning ) there will be party banter, he will go on Eden Prime and you 'll learn some things important about the story, probably. That pretty much concerns the universe of Mass effect. That means those who won't buy the DLC will never understand some things.

Extras, what is it ? Weapons, alternative outfit, robot dog, etc etc. That's what I call extra and we will get them, even an artbook. M3 should be a complete game for everyone at the very least.

The squadmate should have been someone else. And Bioware didn't even say who would be the squadmate, when there were CE editions.

and you are naive, bioware released that because they understood that it would have been worse otherwise. Still, it is bad.

you paid 90 euros, but the main game will cost 69,69 euros on xbox. + 10 euros, = 79 euros, without everything I'll get.

I paid 85 euros. 

Modifié par Sylvianus, 24 février 2012 - 04:43 .

[rainasa]

MageCeridan wrote...


I think the Certification he's refering to is the PS3 / XBOX certification to allow the game to be sold on said consoles (ofcourse, PC games usually does not have that type of certification)

yes, that is what I meant, they said they filed for certification back in january (correct me if im wrong) and during this time untill now they have been working on from ashes.

[Shadowrun1177]

BobSmith101 wrote...

DenizYe wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Those who are happy about that, because you've got your CE edition, you are ridiculous. I have got mine, and I can understand why people are upset.

People would be more upset if it was CE exclusive, and then I'd be campaigning to make him DLC for everyone to have, because that's just fair - not everyone can get the CE, after all, and making cool extras available for everyone is just playing fair. But wanting something extra people have worked really hard for after the core game has gone to certification for free is just silly.

I'm paying €90 for the CE, and I put my pre-order in before I knew about the Prothean squadmate. I could have gotten something completely inconsequental, a la Zaeed 2.0. But now that the extra content is actually worth paying for, people are complaining about not getting him for free. <_<

Yes true. I live in Germany and I'm paying 90 Euros for the CE. Well that's 30 Euro more than the SE. So I think that this DLC is included in the price because in the USA, the CE "only" costs 20 dollars more.


30 Euro = 40 Dollar
20 Dollar = 15 Euro 
:/ I'm confused but yea. I don't think that they will change the plan for this DLC , maybe we all get some more free stuff afterwards because they feel sorry or whatever. But on point: I can't play the game and DLC and love the idea of a living prothean...

DLC costs "nothing" . That is to say once you have it you can copy it as much as you like . This is why publishers love it.
Everything else in the CE has a cost to make. Your not paying for the DLC at all. Which is why no one else should either.

DLC does not cost "nothing", you have to pay the people who make it, if it's like the bonus character you have to pay the voice actors to come in and do the acting. 

[Daywalker315]

BobSmith101 wrote...

DenizYe wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Those who are happy about that, because you've got your CE edition, you are ridiculous. I have got mine, and I can understand why people are upset.

People would be more upset if it was CE exclusive, and then I'd be campaigning to make him DLC for everyone to have, because that's just fair - not everyone can get the CE, after all, and making cool extras available for everyone is just playing fair. But wanting something extra people have worked really hard for after the core game has gone to certification for free is just silly.

I'm paying €90 for the CE, and I put my pre-order in before I knew about the Prothean squadmate. I could have gotten something completely inconsequental, a la Zaeed 2.0. But now that the extra content is actually worth paying for, people are complaining about not getting him for free. <_<

Yes true. I live in Germany and I'm paying 90 Euros for the CE. Well that's 30 Euro more than the SE. So I think that this DLC is included in the price because in the USA, the CE "only" costs 20 dollars more.


30 Euro = 40 Dollar
20 Dollar = 15 Euro 
:/ I'm confused but yea. I don't think that they will change the plan for this DLC , maybe we all get some more free stuff afterwards because they feel sorry or whatever. But on point: I can't play the game and DLC and love the idea of a living prothean...

DLC costs "nothing" . That is to say once you have it you can copy it as much as you like . This is why publishers love it.
Everything else in the CE has a cost to make. Your not paying for the DLC at all. Which is why no one else should either.

WHAT?! Just because it doesn't have a physical manufacturing cost to produce a disc doesn't mean it costs nothing to make. I've read a lot of your posts and responded to a few in this thread (some of which had some merit) but that might be the most slanted and uninformed thing you've said. They had a significant amount of their team work on this at one point or another. I have no idea the final budget of the game as a whole to make but it's safe to say with a team as large as theirs, the amount of time people put into this project probably cost them tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in wages and other costs to produce. Yeah, sure, it costs "nothing". Good luck selling that idea.

[wrdnshprd]

Relix28 wrote...

rainasa wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

So Bioware spent the time, money and extra mans  hours to make and exclusive mission back and DLC  that was never intended to be for public use...

Okay... seems legit.

for the love of all that is holy, do you know how the certification process works???
once a game begins it, it CANNOT be altered in any way. it was druing the time the DLC TEAM started to work on *gasp* DLC!!! this is not hard to understand, it was made to be extra for CE owners and people who bought the DLC, it was NEVER meant to be in the actual ME3 game.

Still doesn't justify charging your customers extra ON RELEASE DAY. Just look at how Zaeed and/or Shale were handled. Probably the exact same situation you described above, except everyone got it for "free" just by buying th game new.
And about this "never meant to be in the main game" BS. Frankly, this point is moot. They could have just as easily included dlc codes for the prothean in every new version of the game, and there would have been 10 time less complaining about it. Because that way it would have been perceived as an incentive to buy the game new, and not as a blatant consumer milking move.

this * 1000

[rainasa]

Sylvianus wrote...

It isn't extra, it is something that should be already in the game. The prothean squadmate will learn you many things about his people, ( What nobody knows but want to learn since the beginning ) there will be party banter, he will go on Eden Prime and you 'll learn some things important about the story, probably. That pretty much concerns the universe of Mass effect. That means those who won't buy the DLC will never understand some things.



and you are naive, bioware released that because they understood that it would have been worse otherwise. Still, it is bad.

they have already said that you can learn everything javick tells you from other sources in the actual game (other people/codex) he is not required to understand ME3's story at all, no does he have an impact on the story himself.
do not spew misinformed infomation as fact.

[Blarty]

I kept yelling 'BSN: Stasis!' at my Kinect - but this thread just keeps on going.....

[BaronIveagh]

rainasa wrote...
javick was a main part of the first leaked script (one that was very, very old) and was cut completely by the second for various reasons.

but instead of just removing him completely they made him an optional squadmate with very little impact on the main story to be released as part of the CE and as DLC. the dev's have said that he was NEVER going to be in the game itself, and if they had not released him as DLC then you simply would never have gotten him at all.

The problem with that is that both sides of this are assuming extremes one way or another. Personally, I have a hard time not seeing it as an important plot point. And if it is, this is going to have a major effect on how DLC is handled by quite a few other companies.

I will say that my own experiences in the gaming industry tend to make me doubt that this was not planned from the get go, and the character being removed and made DLC a deliberate act. It's impact on the plot though, as has been said, remains to be seen.

[spirosz]

Blarty wrote...

I kept yelling 'BSN: Stasis!' at my Kinect - but this thread just keeps on going.....

[MissOuJ]

BobSmith101 wrote...

DLC costs "nothing" . That is to say once you have it you can copy it as much as you like . This is why publishers love it.
Everything else in the CE has a cost to make. Your not paying for the DLC at all. Which is why no one else should either.

Bull. Making DLC consumes resources just like crafting any other sort of content.

Also, if the CE edition was advertised as having extra squadmate + mission as part of the bundle. If it was "free" from the start, I wound't have pre-ordered the collectors edition.

[MageCeridan]

BobSmith101 wrote...

DenizYe wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Those who are happy about that, because you've got your CE edition, you are ridiculous. I have got mine, and I can understand why people are upset.

People would be more upset if it was CE exclusive, and then I'd be campaigning to make him DLC for everyone to have, because that's just fair - not everyone can get the CE, after all, and making cool extras available for everyone is just playing fair. But wanting something extra people have worked really hard for after the core game has gone to certification for free is just silly.

I'm paying €90 for the CE, and I put my pre-order in before I knew about the Prothean squadmate. I could have gotten something completely inconsequental, a la Zaeed 2.0. But now that the extra content is actually worth paying for, people are complaining about not getting him for free. <_<

Yes true. I live in Germany and I'm paying 90 Euros for the CE. Well that's 30 Euro more than the SE. So I think that this DLC is included in the price because in the USA, the CE "only" costs 20 dollars more.


30 Euro = 40 Dollar
20 Dollar = 15 Euro 
:/ I'm confused but yea. I don't think that they will change the plan for this DLC , maybe we all get some more free stuff afterwards because they feel sorry or whatever. But on point: I can't play the game and DLC and love the idea of a living prothean...

DLC costs "nothing" . That is to say once you have it you can copy it as much as you like . This is why publishers love it.
Everything else in the CE has a cost to make. Your not paying for the DLC at all. Which is why no one else should either.

Cost nothing? really?

That's tantamount to say: DLC takes no time to make because one programmer will make it in an evening in his basement by waving a magic wand towards his computer.

Go learn software development cycles and come back to me by saying it costs nothing. (True, doing copy of it costs nothing, but the entire design/conception/implementation/QA/deployement phases has ressource cost to it).

[Relix28]

rainasa wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

Still doesn't justify charging your customers extra ON RELEASE DAY. Just look at how Zaeed and/or Shale were handled. Probably the exact same situation you described above, except everyone got it for "free" just by buying th game new.
And about this "never meant to be in the main game" BS. Frankly, this point is moot. They could have just as easily included dlc codes for the prothean in every new version of the game, and there would have been 10 time less complaining about it. Because that way it would have been perceived as an incentive to buy the game new, and not as a blatant consumer milking move.

shale and the cerberus network where not free, they where added to new copies so people would continue to buy those instead of used ones. for ME3 the alliance network and multiplayer takes that spot, so they released it as part of the CE and as DLC, they had no reason what so ever to proivde it as an incentive for anything.

What did I say? 

Anyway, it's pointless discussing this with you, since you are unable to comprehend the bigger picture behind this business model and its (un)ethics, and will swallow down just about anything some PR guy would like us to believe.

[nitefyre410]

rainasa wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

So Bioware spent the time, money and extra mans  hours to make and exclusive mission back and DLC  that was never intended to be for public use...

Okay... seems legit.

for the love of all that is holy, do you know how the certification process works???
once a game begins it, it CANNOT be altered in any way. it was druing the time the DLC TEAM started to work on *gasp* DLC!!! this is not hard to understand, it was made to be extra for CE owners and people who bought the DLC, it was NEVER meant to be in the actual ME3 game.

 


So like I said ...they were  going to charge for it anyway   CE  Exclusive or not.  

When did  I say about adding anything in game... nope  said nothing about that..

All I said was... they  never planned for it  be a CE exclusive  and they were planning on  release it anyway.

Which if they would have waited at least of month  later to release... would have  been better than releasing day one.

[Gamer391]

Shadowrun1177 wrote...

There could be some after the release date if people don't pick their copy or if a store ordered extra, but there is no guarantee that there will be.

Okay. Thanks for the info. If you would be so kind to answer one more question, I would be grateful. Where can I find an Admin/Moderator or a site-in-charge person? I wanted to inquire about the game's availability in certain international countries and the stores who sell them. Can you point me in the right direction? I tried the dedicated website but haven't found any solution.

[Rdubs]

Blarty wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

^No he doesn't, and neither do you. He said "denying players a squad member". Wrong. No one is denying anybody anything. You can buy it as DLC. That is not being denied something. That is just being asked to pay extra for extra content that is non-essential to the main story of ME3, which is killing reapers, not "learning more about the guys who died out 50,000 years ago".

Here we have the crux of the issue.  Fans of the series would consider "learning more about the guys who died out 50,000 years ago" to be a CRITICAL part of the lore and story.  I can see why people who only got into it with the PS3 might think otherwise.  But there should be a rule, if you didn't play the original ME, don't chime in on Prothean content being an integral part of the story.

But does it NEED to be a Prothean squadmate - do you need to have that knowledge imparted by a playable character? Do you even know if that lore is just coming from the Prothean individual, do you even know if the Prothean is in the game, but not available to be used as a squadmate who don;t have the From Ashes DLC....

In other words, just how are you qualifying and quantifying this supposed loss to this extent? 

Seriously, I'll grant anyone a pass for missing something mentioned 5 pages ago, but this was already spoken about just a few posts up.

Rdubs wrote...

2) It's not about the information, it's about the experience.  Everything Legion told me about the Heretics and Nazara or whatever I could have read in an email or codex, but it was FRIKKIN AWESOME experiencing hearing that coming from a Geth.  I don't know what the Prothean will tell me as a squad member, but I sure as hell want to hear it from him instead of Liara or a codex.

[heart again]

Shadowrun1177 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

DenizYe wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Those who are happy about that, because you've got your CE edition, you are ridiculous. I have got mine, and I can understand why people are upset.

People would be more upset if it was CE exclusive, and then I'd be campaigning to make him DLC for everyone to have, because that's just fair - not everyone can get the CE, after all, and making cool extras available for everyone is just playing fair. But wanting something extra people have worked really hard for after the core game has gone to certification for free is just silly.

I'm paying €90 for the CE, and I put my pre-order in before I knew about the Prothean squadmate. I could have gotten something completely inconsequental, a la Zaeed 2.0. But now that the extra content is actually worth paying for, people are complaining about not getting him for free. <_<

Yes true. I live in Germany and I'm paying 90 Euros for the CE. Well that's 30 Euro more than the SE. So I think that this DLC is included in the price because in the USA, the CE "only" costs 20 dollars more.


30 Euro = 40 Dollar
20 Dollar = 15 Euro 
:/ I'm confused but yea. I don't think that they will change the plan for this DLC , maybe we all get some more free stuff afterwards because they feel sorry or whatever. But on point: I can't play the game and DLC and love the idea of a living prothean...

DLC costs "nothing" . That is to say once you have it you can copy it as much as you like . This is why publishers love it.
Everything else in the CE has a cost to make. Your not paying for the DLC at all. Which is why no one else should either.

DLC does not cost "nothing", you have to pay the people who make it, if it's like the bonus character you have to pay the voice actors to come in and do the acting. 

Don't forget distributors like Microsoft and Sony.  Or do they put up DLC as a charity to the devs?

[rainasa]

BaronIveagh wrote...

The problem with that is that both sides of this are assuming extremes one way or another. Personally, I have a hard time not seeing it as an important plot point. And if it is, this is going to have a major effect on how DLC is handled by quite a few other companies.

I will say that my own experiences in the gaming industry tend to make me doubt that this was not planned from the get go, and the character being removed and made DLC a deliberate act. It's impact on the plot though, as has been said, remains to be seen.

actually ive read the script and his part in it was.....subpar to say the least, it was cliched and uninteresting and most importantly it removed alot of focus off of shepard, i would have rather he just stayed dead, but alas.

[Squallypo]

[Argors]

rainasa wrote...

MageCeridan wrote...


I think the Certification he's refering to is the PS3 / XBOX certification to allow the game to be sold on said consoles (ofcourse, PC games usually does not have that type of certification)

yes, that is what I meant, they said they filed for certification back in january (correct me if im wrong) and during this time untill now they have been working on from ashes.

That doesn't hold water if he was going to be in the CE all along. It was planned this way all long and they knew a Prothean would start a storm why wouldn't they tell us out right it was if not? It got leaked on Xbox live as for sure. There goes all thier under the radar PR BS.

Modifié par Argors, 24 février 2012 - 04:50 .

[BaronIveagh]

rainasa wrote...

MageCeridan wrote...
I think the Certification he's refering to is the PS3 / XBOX certification to allow the game to be sold on said consoles (ofcourse, PC games usually does not have that type of certification)

yes, that is what I meant, they said they filed for certification back in january (correct me if im wrong) and during this time untill now they have been working on from ashes.

Ok, I'm not as well acquainted with console gaming's cert process, however, it strikes me that all the same points I brought up with the PC rating cert would stand, and mostly likely be approved, if the Sony/M$ thought (or could be convinced) it would be profitable for them to allow it.