13369 réponses à ce sujet

[JJDrakken]

Blarty wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

rainasa wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

Still doesn't justify charging your customers extra ON RELEASE DAY. Just look at how Zaeed and/or Shale were handled. Probably the exact same situation you described above, except everyone got it for "free" just by buying th game new.
And about this "never meant to be in the main game" BS. Frankly, this point is moot. They could have just as easily included dlc codes for the prothean in every new version of the game, and there would have been 10 time less complaining about it. Because that way it would have been perceived as an incentive to buy the game new, and not as a blatant consumer milking move.

shale and the cerberus network where not free, they where added to new copies so people would continue to buy those instead of used ones. for ME3 the alliance network and multiplayer takes that spot, so they released it as part of the CE and as DLC, they had no reason what so ever to proivde it as an incentive for anything.

What did I say? 

Anyway, it's pointless discussing this with you, since you are unable to comprehend the bigger picture behind this business model and its (un)ethics, and will swallow down just about anything some PR guy would like us to believe.

This is a great point, glad it is being discussed.  Shale and the Cerberus Network were what is known as UNLOCKABLE content, more than a true DLC.  The idea is to encourage people to buy new as opposed to getting the full game from a used copy which does not benefit the developer as much.
It would be one thing if the Prothean had been unlockable - or even if we had to pay an extra $10 onto the purchase price to have it be unlockable.  But the way it rolled out it was, here is ADDITIONAL PAY-FOR content that we know any hard core fan will want to have. And oh by the way we're doing this out of the kindness of our hearts after we didn't make any announcements about how if you want this you'd better get a CE.

Mulitplayer in ME3 is the UNLOCKABLE content....

Could care less about Multiplayer  & that should been the day one10 dollar DLC.  Not the Promethain & no origins for hard copies too.


JJ

[Blarty]

Rdubs wrote...

rainasa wrote...

Rdubs wrote...


This is a great point, glad it is being discussed.  Shale and the Cerberus Network were what is known as UNLOCKABLE content, more than a true DLC.  The idea is to encourage people to buy new as opposed to getting the full game from a used copy which does not benefit the developer as much.
It would be one thing if the Prothean had been unlockable - or even if we had to pay an extra $10 onto the purchase price to have it be unlockable.  But the way it rolled out it was, here is ADDITIONAL PAY-FOR content that we know any hard core fan will want to have. And oh by the way we're doing this out of the kindness of our hearts after we didn't make any announcements about how if you want this you'd better get a CE.

ME3 does have that "unlockable content" in the form of the alliance network and multiplayer, they had no reason to also include from ashes, so instead they added it to the CE bundle and made it avalabile as day one dlc.

Don't confuse "some unlockable content" with "good unlockable content".  I could really care less about multiplayer and such.  That should have been included with the base version and Prothean should have been the unlock.  All they did was lower the bar knowing some people wouldn't mind or notice, and best case even defend.

Loving the way you now decide to qualify it with 'good' - a subjective opinion

I didn't really give two hoots about Zaeed, the Normandy Crash site or the Hammerhead either, but I didn't shout down fire and brimstone about it.

[BaronIveagh]

woods26 wrote...

I'm more inclined to believe someone working in the industry than some forum members. Can you provide dev insight that states the opposite?

He wrote it almost three years ago.  I'm not a dev, I'm a IT consultant for various gaming companies (among others) with over 10 years experiance.  I've already said as much as I legally can without breaking ND.

Which is what you'll find most of the devs that are still employed saying too.

[rainasa]

Rdubs wrote...


Don't confuse "some unlockable content" with "good unlockable content".  I could really care less about multiplayer and such.  That should have been included with the base version and Prothean should have been the unlock.  All they did was lower the bar knowing some people wouldn't mind or notice, and best case even defend.

again thats an opinion but "there should have been two versions of the standard edition, one with mulitplayer and the other with from ashes" is a valid complaint.

but "because there is a prothean in this dlc it should given to everyone for free!!!" is not.

Modifié par rainasa, 24 février 2012 - 05:17 .

[Rdubs]

MissOuJ wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Do you REALLY believe Legion's interaction was because it was an important plot point?  If so then by that theory, an even MORE important plot point should matter too - oh say, how about the Collector Base?  Yet it's obvious by now the Collector Base decision means squat and it will be just a few lines of dialogue that talk about your decision if anything.  The collector base was the biggest hot-button issue of ME2, about how it would affect the future, and if that didn't matter do you really think Legion's role would be more important?
More likely Legion was put in because the EXPERIENCE of talking with him ROCKED. 

Yes. The stuff about Heretics vs. the True Geth + Legion's loyalty mission is probably going to have big ramifications in ME3 - just like Mordin and his loyalty mission and how that turned out - and that's something we know for sure, from the demo if from nothing else.

Also, have you read the leaked script? Have you played the game? Because otherwise I don't believe yuo can know if the Collector Base and how you dealed with it "means squat".

Keep collector base - cerberus wants to kill you, this we know.
Blow collector base - cerberus wants to kill you, this we know.

Wish there was some kind of "futures" market people could bet on what shows up in the final game on.  Here's what I predict:
Keep the base - Cerberus learns how to indoctrinate people to serve Cerberus based on tech from the Collector base.
Blow the base - Cerberus learns how to indoctrinate people to serve Cerberus based on 1) some "other" Reaper artifact discovered or 2) the WRECKAGE of the Collector Base.

Either way, we'll know March 6th.

[MageCeridan]

obie191970 wrote...

Martin the Warrior wrote...

Personally, I think that if we get the chance to bring our Prothean buddy to Kahje, the epic lulz would be worth 10 bucks. Just my opinion.

You get to see a screening of Blasto.

Yes. Blasto the Hannar Specter with his/her/it sidekick Avianna the Krogan/Human/Asari hybrid.

(yes it's a joke)

[Blarty]

JJDrakken wrote...

Blarty wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

rainasa wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

Still doesn't justify charging your customers extra ON RELEASE DAY. Just look at how Zaeed and/or Shale were handled. Probably the exact same situation you described above, except everyone got it for "free" just by buying th game new.
And about this "never meant to be in the main game" BS. Frankly, this point is moot. They could have just as easily included dlc codes for the prothean in every new version of the game, and there would have been 10 time less complaining about it. Because that way it would have been perceived as an incentive to buy the game new, and not as a blatant consumer milking move.

shale and the cerberus network where not free, they where added to new copies so people would continue to buy those instead of used ones. for ME3 the alliance network and multiplayer takes that spot, so they released it as part of the CE and as DLC, they had no reason what so ever to proivde it as an incentive for anything.

What did I say? 

Anyway, it's pointless discussing this with you, since you are unable to comprehend the bigger picture behind this business model and its (un)ethics, and will swallow down just about anything some PR guy would like us to believe.

This is a great point, glad it is being discussed.  Shale and the Cerberus Network were what is known as UNLOCKABLE content, more than a true DLC.  The idea is to encourage people to buy new as opposed to getting the full game from a used copy which does not benefit the developer as much.
It would be one thing if the Prothean had been unlockable - or even if we had to pay an extra $10 onto the purchase price to have it be unlockable.  But the way it rolled out it was, here is ADDITIONAL PAY-FOR content that we know any hard core fan will want to have. And oh by the way we're doing this out of the kindness of our hearts after we didn't make any announcements about how if you want this you'd better get a CE.

Mulitplayer in ME3 is the UNLOCKABLE content....

Could care less about Multiplayer  & that should been the day one10 dollar DLC.  Not the Promethain & no origins for hard copies too.


JJ

But there are people that do.... and Oh lord... the Humanity.... they actually don't mind the multiplayer, hell the heathens even like it, and some of them, oin their secret dens and covens actually think that the multiplayer might be something they'll *gasp* play after the single player.... oh my lord I can take no more, you must forever call it multi-heathen, not multi-player for I am a player and they are heathens.....

[Kroepoek]

[quote]MageCeridan wrote...

[quote]Fix1o0 wrote...

[quote]nitefyre410 wrote...

[quote]Fix1o0 wrote...

[quote]rainasa wrote...

[quote]Argors wrote...

That doesn't hold water if he was going to be in the CE all along. It was planned this way all long and they knew a Prothean would start a storm why wouldn't they tell us out right it was if not? It got leaked on Xbox live as for sure. There goes all thier under the radar PR BS.

[/quote]

javick was cut from a very early version of the script due to various reasons, and when they had the time (after they filed for certification) they added him in later as an optional squadmate, this happens all the time in video games, where cut content is added back as DLC or an expansion.

[/quote] 



Which means the DLC was planned during development all along. Now Casey Hudson comes by and says they created it after they were done with the main game. Which also means they postponed making it for the sake of having it as DLC to milk you mindless drones.

[/quote] 

Well you don't hire  independent  dev teams  just for  excluse 
Collectors Edition content  that you don't intended sell thats for sure.  


the mindless Biodrone line was not need though..man come'on there has been enough insults thrown around this place.

[/quote]

Oh yes! The independent dev team, yes. That doesn't take away the DLC was in the planning all along during development. Hiring an independent dev team doesn't change anything. The idea was there. The concept was there.

The whole independent team dev team made it is nonsense to cover it up even more.




Oh yes! God forbid having a broad generic plan to start with and then synthesise it with iterations. It's not like there's a development model for software that exists just for this right?

*cought*  
http://en.wikipedia....ive_development  *cought*

[/quote]

You're not proving anything. You're just looking for things to make the ripoff justified. It's ok to admit if you like Bioware's magic stick in your rear end. No hard feelings.

Modifié par Fix1o0, 24 février 2012 - 05:20 .

[Rdubs]

Daywalker315 wrote...

To all the people who claim this is like making Legion paid DLC, give me a break. Just stop. Legion was introduced as a character during the final MAIN (non-optional) STORY MISSION before the Suicide Mission. Thus, making his character DLC would have screwed up a main story mission. Not having this Prothean DLC will not alter any main story missions in any way other than the banter you might have with your squad while doing it.

Day, no one comparing Legion is talking about his interface with the plot.  They are talking about the EXPERIENCE and content interfacing him had with the game which made the game a more enjoyable experience, one most people would have been pissed at had Bioware pulled him and tried to sell him as optional.

[mogonk]

rainasa wrote...

mogonk wrote...


What's really weird is that Casey Hudson tweeted that once the team was done with the core game, they moved on to DLC, which implies that it was the SAME team.

Then we get this post on BSN which is explicit that it was a different team.

Next time, guys, send an intra-office memo so you can get your story straight.  You should at least be professional enough to lie consistently.

execpt that many people who worked on the main game are also on the DLC team to have this not happen would be beyond illogical.

Oh, I see.  It's a "totally different team" with the same people on it.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Rdubs]

rainasa wrote...

mogonk wrote...


What's really weird is that Casey Hudson tweeted that once the team was done with the core game, they moved on to DLC, which implies that it was the SAME team.

Then we get this post on BSN which is explicit that it was a different team.

Next time, guys, send an intra-office memo so you can get your story straight.  You should at least be professional enough to lie consistently.

execpt that many people who worked on the main game are also on the DLC team to have this not happen would be beyond illogical.

Glad someone on the "just pay for it" side can see where the fault lies with that nifty chart someone tried to put together trying to debunk the conspiracy because there was parallel paths going on.

[MissOuJ]

JJDrakken wrote...

Could care less about Multiplayer  & that should been the day one10 dollar DLC.  Not the Promethain & no origins for hard copies too.

JJ

Well, too bad. Many people do care about the MP, and seriously, MP >>> one new squadmate+mission+some new outfits. Not saying it's better, but more hours&development time has been put on the multiplayer, so having that as the incentive and extra squaddie as a DLC does make sence...

[Travie]

mogonk wrote...

Fix1o0 wrote...

Oh yes! The independent dev team, yes. That doesn't take away the DLC was in the planning all along during development. Hiring an independent dev team doesn't change anything. The idea was there. The concept was there.

The whole independent team dev team made it is nonsense to cover it up even more.

What's really weird is that Casey Hudson tweeted that once the team was done with the core game, they moved on to DLC, which implies that it was the SAME team.

Then we get this post on BSN which is explicit that it was a different team.

Next time, guys, send an intra-office memo so you can get your story straight.  You should at least be professional enough to lie consistently.

Haha! Caught red handed.

[Rdubs]

Blarty wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

rainasa wrote...

Rdubs wrote...


This is a great point, glad it is being discussed.  Shale and the Cerberus Network were what is known as UNLOCKABLE content, more than a true DLC.  The idea is to encourage people to buy new as opposed to getting the full game from a used copy which does not benefit the developer as much.
It would be one thing if the Prothean had been unlockable - or even if we had to pay an extra $10 onto the purchase price to have it be unlockable.  But the way it rolled out it was, here is ADDITIONAL PAY-FOR content that we know any hard core fan will want to have. And oh by the way we're doing this out of the kindness of our hearts after we didn't make any announcements about how if you want this you'd better get a CE.

ME3 does have that "unlockable content" in the form of the alliance network and multiplayer, they had no reason to also include from ashes, so instead they added it to the CE bundle and made it avalabile as day one dlc.

Don't confuse "some unlockable content" with "good unlockable content".  I could really care less about multiplayer and such.  That should have been included with the base version and Prothean should have been the unlock.  All they did was lower the bar knowing some people wouldn't mind or notice, and best case even defend.

Loving the way you now decide to qualify it with 'good' - a subjective opinion

I didn't really give two hoots about Zaeed, the Normandy Crash site or the Hammerhead either, but I didn't shout down fire and brimstone about it.

It's not hard to do.  ME is at its core a single player RPG space drama.  Therefore things which enrich the single player RPG space drama should be added in, things which do not should be optional.
I agree with you on all the DLC you quote.

[Rdubs]

rainasa wrote...

Rdubs wrote...


Don't confuse "some unlockable content" with "good unlockable content".  I could really care less about multiplayer and such.  That should have been included with the base version and Prothean should have been the unlock.  All they did was lower the bar knowing some people wouldn't mind or notice, and best case even defend.

again thats an opinion but "there should have been two versions of the standard edition, one with mulitplayer and the other with from ashes" is a valid complaint.

but "because there is a prothean in this dlc it should given to everyone for free!!!" is not.

I'll agree with you on the multiple versions for people more interested in lore vs. diversity.  Let's shake hands on that.

[GnusmasTHX]

Page 300 here we come!

Choo choo!

[Blarty]

mogonk wrote...


Oh, I see.  It's a "totally different team" with the same people on it.

Thanks for clearing that up.

yes firstly they where on the core game team then on a team known as Team Alpha Super Awesome Cool Dynamite Wolf Squadron. 

[GnusmasTHX]

Blarty wrote...

mogonk wrote...


Oh, I see.  It's a "totally different team" with the same people on it.

Thanks for clearing that up.

yes firstly they where on the core game team then on a team known as Team Alpha Super Awesome Cool Dynamite Wolf Squadron. 

TASACDWS was working on the DLC?!

[Blarty]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Page 300 here we come!

Choo choo!

Its all we have left on BSN - Quote or Die, that's the plan

[BaronIveagh]

Well, you know, it's like Wolverine, he appears on every team, having adventures in several different places at the same time.

[rainasa]

mogonk wrote...


Oh, I see.  It's a "totally different team" with the same people on it.

Thanks for clearing that up.

they are diffrent teams but it would be beyond silly from not to include the same people, things like concept artists, voice actors, progamers, writers, and the people who create the models are NEEDED, i mean really, this argument is so stupid, there are many legitimate complaints about from ashes that i can understand (but disagree with), but this is SO  not one of them.

Modifié par rainasa, 24 février 2012 - 05:28 .

[JJDrakken]

Blarty wrote...

JJDrakken wrote...

Blarty wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

rainasa wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

Still doesn't justify charging your customers extra ON RELEASE DAY. Just look at how Zaeed and/or Shale were handled. Probably the exact same situation you described above, except everyone got it for "free" just by buying th game new.
And about this "never meant to be in the main game" BS. Frankly, this point is moot. They could have just as easily included dlc codes for the prothean in every new version of the game, and there would have been 10 time less complaining about it. Because that way it would have been perceived as an incentive to buy the game new, and not as a blatant consumer milking move.

shale and the cerberus network where not free, they where added to new copies so people would continue to buy those instead of used ones. for ME3 the alliance network and multiplayer takes that spot, so they released it as part of the CE and as DLC, they had no reason what so ever to proivde it as an incentive for anything.

What did I say? 

Anyway, it's pointless discussing this with you, since you are unable to comprehend the bigger picture behind this business model and its (un)ethics, and will swallow down just about anything some PR guy would like us to believe.

This is a great point, glad it is being discussed.  Shale and the Cerberus Network were what is known as UNLOCKABLE content, more than a true DLC.  The idea is to encourage people to buy new as opposed to getting the full game from a used copy which does not benefit the developer as much.
It would be one thing if the Prothean had been unlockable - or even if we had to pay an extra $10 onto the purchase price to have it be unlockable.  But the way it rolled out it was, here is ADDITIONAL PAY-FOR content that we know any hard core fan will want to have. And oh by the way we're doing this out of the kindness of our hearts after we didn't make any announcements about how if you want this you'd better get a CE.

Mulitplayer in ME3 is the UNLOCKABLE content....

Could care less about Multiplayer  & that should been the day one10 dollar DLC.  Not the Promethain & no origins for hard copies too.


JJ

But there are people that do.... and Oh lord... the Humanity.... they actually don't mind the multiplayer, hell the heathens even like it, and some of them, oin their secret dens and covens actually think that the multiplayer might be something they'll *gasp* play after the single player.... oh my lord I can take no more, you must forever call it multi-heathen, not multi-player for I am a player and they are heathens.....

pretending to quote some kind of biblical scripture or whatever at me, doesn't change my mind.  I don't care about the Multiplayer on ME3, Since previous 2 games where SRPGs, I'll stick to that.  If I want Multi, I'll hop over to my SWTOR account, continue leading like 5 different Ops groups our guild has going on.


JJ

[Yuoaman]

I think they meant that up until certification they had their artists and such working on it, which is pretty much all they can do at that point in development - but I agree that they've been wording it somewhat oddly.

[MageCeridan]

Fix1o0 wrote...

MageCeridan wrote...

Fix1o0 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Fix1o0 wrote...

rainasa wrote...

Argors wrote...

That doesn't hold water if he was going to be in the CE all along. It was planned this way all long and they knew a Prothean would start a storm why wouldn't they tell us out right it was if not? It got leaked on Xbox live as for sure. There goes all thier under the radar PR BS.

javick was cut from a very early version of the script due to various reasons, and when they had the time (after they filed for certification) they added him in later as an optional squadmate, this happens all the time in video games, where cut content is added back as DLC or an expansion.

 



Which means the DLC was planned during development all along. Now Casey Hudson comes by and says they created it after they were done with the main game. Which also means they postponed making it for the sake of having it as DLC to milk you mindless drones.

 

Well you don't hire  independent  dev teams  just for  excluse 
Collectors Edition content  that you don't intended sell thats for sure.  


the mindless Biodrone line was not need though..man come'on there has been enough insults thrown around this place.

Oh yes! The independent dev team, yes. That doesn't take away the DLC was in the planning all along during development. Hiring an independent dev team doesn't change anything. The idea was there. The concept was there.

The whole independent team dev team made it is nonsense to cover it up even more.

Oh yes! God forbid having a broad generic plan to start with and then synthesise it with iterations. It's not like there's a development model for software that exists just for this right?

*cought*  
http://en.wikipedia....ive_development  *cought*

You're not proving anything. You're just looking for things to make the ripoff justified. It's ok to admit if you like Bioware's magic stick in your rear end. No hard feelings.

Mostly because I am tired of repeating myself.

They are probably using an iterative development model, so their development cycle is not stricly : Analysis => Design => Conception => QA => Release, but more Analysis => Analysis + Design => 
Analysis + Design +Conception, etc..
Aka: Iterative permits parrallel work and tus allow things like, a team starting work on the DLC while the rest finishes up the main game and send it to Certificaiton.

Oh, yea. I am not a game developper(not part of any compagny that design games) but I am a Software engineering student and I do understand how software development works. Please come to me when you can prove that the Prothean was cut from the finished product to make the DLC (instead of infering something that happened back in Iteration 1 of the software...)

[mogonk]

rainasa wrote...

they are diffrent teams but it would be beyond silly from not to include the same people, things like concept artists, voice actors, progamers, writers, and the people who create the models are NEEDED, i mean really, this argument is so stupid, there are many legitimate complaints about from ashes that i can understand (but disagree with), but this is SO  not one of them.

Well, it seems like an attempt to mislead us, doesn' it?  I mean, why emphasize that it was a "separate team" if not to try to indicate that the same people were not involved? 

If they just changed the title of the team and it was mainly the same "content creators" that Hudson referred to, why would Gamble bother to tell us that it was a different team?

Hmmm?