13369 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

wrdnshprd wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

again, it doesnt matter how important the content is..  if one version of the product has more content than the other out of the box, than the version with less content is, well, less complete and an inferior version.

you can spin it however you like, but it doesnt make it any less true

Thanks.

However, you're wrong about "complete." It isn't used to mean what you say it is used to mean.  Nobody calls the standard editions of the LotR films "incomplete", even though they don't have as many scenes as the extended editions.

Perhaps people should call the standard editions incomplete. But they don't.

this is actually a great example.. those versions are advertised as EXTENDED versions of the films.. of course people are going to expect there to be more footage.. thats the whole point of the EXTENDED version.

however, when it comes to collector's editions.. besides Dragon age and ME3, when has as a CE ever been advertised that way.

right NEVER.  they've always been advertised to contain vanity items, physical collectibles, artbooks, that kind of thing.. that is, until bioware started doing this kind of thing.  CEs were NEVER advertised to contain actual story content.  and regardless of how important the DLC is, thats exactly what happened here, and in DAO..

and people are willing to accept it because 'times have changed'.

yeah, the certainly have.. i wonder how it got that way..

and keep in mind, im just as much to blame as the next guy... i purchased DAO because i made the same excuses you guys are making now..  im also going to purchase ME3 because i want to see the end of the trilogy.. that doesnt mean i have to continue the same pattern going forward, and neither do any of you. 

The Cycle must continue.

(Sorry could not resist).

[BaronIveagh]

Daywalker315 wrote...

NoxJuked wrote...

damn man this CE DLC is amazing can't wait to play both the complete game and the DLC :3

Haha. This ^. Nice work.

Daywalker, we already know you lubed up, you do, after all, have a sig proclaiming it.

[oto]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

oto wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

It looks like they may be starting to wobble. Calling the DLC free content on the CE which it is by definition as bonus.It paves the way for free DLC for all.

Again you are not paying for the digital bits you are paying for the physical items that cost EA money to outsource.
You may not like it, you may not accept it. But that is what Bonus means.

Right, because Bioware didn't have to shell out money to make the digital bits. Oh wait, they did. 

Thats a one shot cost for making them. Once thats done they can copy them for free as many times as they want.

And yet you continue to avoid the actual reason why we pay, which is the actual development costs.  You are only looking at it from a manufacturing perspective.  All of the marketing, pre-development, development...that's the bulk of what we are paying for when we purchase a game. 

Believe it or not, BioWare takes a hit for every CE sold, because it costs more to produce all of those items in there then what they are selling.  They lose money doing this.

Edit: Forgot about server costs as well, now that there is multiplayer and that they use Alliance News Network.  

ahahahaha      do you even  belive what you are saying ?

Agreed. There is ZERO chance all the little physical trinkets in the CE cost anywhere close to $20 to produce. They wouldn't sell a CE for less profit than a SE. A little thing called mass manufacturing of goods. A corporation's best friend. Physical production costs: metal case might cost an extra $1-2, book maybe $2-3, patch 10 cents, lithograph 20 cents, comic book 20 cents. The rest are digital items. That's nowhere near $20.

Sorry to say something obvious but you are completely disregarding the markup .

yes he is

[_symphony]

MissOuJ wrote...

_symphony wrote...

you are still avoiding the question:
Do you think that all the items you get with the CE edition, plus the DLC (that cost $10 to everyone else) is worth $20?

You know it doesn't add up, CE buyers get the DLC at no cost, while SE buyers are the ones screwed by having to pay up.

So lets be honest now, and stop this DGAF aptitude, next time even CE buyers will have to pay for day 1 DLCs.

I'm paying the equivalent of $120 for the CE, because for some reason videogames are much more expensive where I live. Do you think that is enough money to cover the costs of both extra stuff and the DLC? You do realize I'm paying twice as much as SE byers in the US?

I know that, but that's probably taxes and irrelevant to the actual cost of the product, I don't even want to know right now how much the SE will cost here, because $60 is an already pretty high bar, and my country adds %50 taxes on everything, imagine it, 90 bucks for the SE version.

I want to be pretty clear that I don't care about the DLC, and I don't think I want it. BioWare really made a stupid move storywise by resurrecting a prothean for no good reason. But this day 1 DLC really looks like a cash grab, as a consumer I think I should complain even if it doesn't concern me. If we don't raise a flag to EA/BioWare then what's next? will everyone have to pay for day 1 DLC in the next game? alternate endings will come in DLC packs? 

I neither mind that CE buyers might be getting the DLC for free while SE buyers have to pay up, I'm not such a bad person for not wanting anybody to get something I paid for free. 

Modifié par _symphony, 24 février 2012 - 09:10 .

[ArkkAngel007]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

oto wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

It looks like they may be starting to wobble. Calling the DLC free content on the CE which it is by definition as bonus.It paves the way for free DLC for all.

Again you are not paying for the digital bits you are paying for the physical items that cost EA money to outsource.
You may not like it, you may not accept it. But that is what Bonus means.

Right, because Bioware didn't have to shell out money to make the digital bits. Oh wait, they did. 

Thats a one shot cost for making them. Once thats done they can copy them for free as many times as they want.

And yet you continue to avoid the actual reason why we pay, which is the actual development costs.  You are only looking at it from a manufacturing perspective.  All of the marketing, pre-development, development...that's the bulk of what we are paying for when we purchase a game. 

Believe it or not, BioWare takes a hit for every CE sold, because it costs more to produce all of those items in there then what they are selling.  They lose money doing this.

Edit: Forgot about server costs as well, now that there is multiplayer and that they use Alliance News Network.  

ahahahaha      do you even  belive what you are saying ?

Agreed. There is ZERO chance all the little physical trinkets in the CE cost anywhere close to $20 to produce. They wouldn't sell a CE for less profit than a SE. A little thing called mass manufacturing of goods. A corporation's best friend. Physical production costs: metal case might cost an extra $1-2, book maybe $2-3, patch 10 cents, lithograph 20 cents, comic book 20 cents. The rest are digital items. That's nowhere near $20.

Sorry to say something obvious but you are completely disregarding the markup .

I admit that was complete bs that I put down for the CE.  I didn't really think about that thoroughly.  But it still stands that we just aren't paying for the production of the physical items, that the bulk is elsewhere.

[Daywalker315]

ElementL09 wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

oto wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

It looks like they may be starting to wobble. Calling the DLC free content on the CE which it is by definition as bonus.It paves the way for free DLC for all.

Again you are not paying for the digital bits you are paying for the physical items that cost EA money to outsource.
You may not like it, you may not accept it. But that is what Bonus means.

Right, because Bioware didn't have to shell out money to make the digital bits. Oh wait, they did. 

Thats a one shot cost for making them. Once thats done they can copy them for free as many times as they want.

And yet you continue to avoid the actual reason why we pay, which is the actual development costs.  You are only looking at it from a manufacturing perspective.  All of the marketing, pre-development, development...that's the bulk of what we are paying for when we purchase a game. 

Believe it or not, BioWare takes a hit for every CE sold, because it costs more to produce all of those items in there then what they are selling.  They lose money doing this.

Edit: Forgot about server costs as well, now that there is multiplayer and that they use Alliance News Network.  

ahahahaha      do you even  belive what you are saying ?

Agreed. There is ZERO chance all the little physical trinkets in the CE cost anywhere close to $20 to produce. They wouldn't sell a CE for less profit than a SE. A little thing called mass manufacturing of goods. A corporation's best friend. Physical production costs: metal case might cost an extra $1-2, book maybe $2-3, patch 10 cents, lithograph 20 cents, comic book 20 cents. The rest are digital items. That's nowhere near $20.

Yeah, thats debatable.  I for one feel that the Collectors Editition contents without From Ashes, still make the Collectors Edition worth 80 bucks.

That's fine. You can feel that way personally. I accept that. But please don't do what dozens of other people are trying to do and say that "the DLC SHOULDN'T be included because all these other things are clearly worth $20 by themselves". I absolutely disagree with you that the rest of the items are worth $20, because to me they aren't. I accept that you think they are but I personally got the CE almost exclusively for the character DLC. The extra weapons and robo dog and hoodie and outfit pack were nice too but the physical items hold zero appeal or value to me.

You and I, nor anyone else on here, have the right to tell BioWare what they should or shouldn't put in the collector's edition version of their game. They made it and can put whatever they want into that box.

[AkiKishi]

Daywalker315 wrote...

Those people still were not working on the core game and thus their salaries reflect in the cost of making something. If they weren't working on this they could have been working on something else, be it DLC for post-launch or a new game entirely. Either way, their salaries are taken to account for the cost of creating whatever they do during that time and money needs to be made to recoup that cost.

Regardless of whether they are working on anything you still have to pay them.

The only real expence is in the VA , thats the only thing. And since the Prothean is part of the main game, thats kind of wrong as well.

[NoxJuked]

[Evilelf007]

Umm...since day 1, the CE was advertised as having an extra squadmate and mission! From day 1!¡!

[AkiKishi]

NoxJuked wrote...

 [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ6CcEOmlYU&feature=related

[/quote[/url]]

[Bostur]

wrdnshprd wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

wrdnshprd wrote...

again, it doesnt matter how important the content is..  if one version of the product has more content than the other out of the box, than the version with less content is, well, less complete and an inferior version.

you can spin it however you like, but it doesnt make it any less true

Thanks.

However, you're wrong about "complete." It isn't used to mean what you say it is used to mean.  Nobody calls the standard editions of the LotR films "incomplete", even though they don't have as many scenes as the extended editions.

Perhaps people should call the standard editions incomplete. But they don't.

this is actually a great example.. those versions are advertised as EXTENDED versions of the films.. of course people are going to expect there to be more footage.. thats the whole point of the EXTENDED version.

however, when it comes to collector's editions.. besides Dragon age and ME3, when has as a CE ever been advertised that way.

right NEVER.  they've always been advertised to contain vanity items, physical collectibles, artbooks, that kind of thing.. that is, until bioware started doing this kind of thing.  CEs were NEVER advertised to contain actual story content.  and regardless of how important the DLC is, thats exactly what happened here, and in DAO..

and people are willing to accept it because 'times have changed'.

yeah, the certainly have.. i wonder how it got that way..

and keep in mind, im just as much to blame as the next guy... i purchased DAO because i made the same excuses you guys are making now..  im also going to purchase ME3 because i want to see the end of the trilogy.. that doesnt mean i have to continue the same pattern going forward, and neither do any of you. 

Imagine if the extended version of Lotr had included Tom Bombadil. A loved character from the books, who was cut from the movie because because he was not important to the plot. If people could pay extra for Tom Bombadil I bet fans would be outraged at being nickled and dimed. I know I would.

[BaronIveagh]

_symphony wrote...

But this day 1 DLC is really looks like a cash grab, as a consumer I think I should complain even if it doesn't concern me. If we don't raise a flag to EA/BioWare then what's next? will everyone have to pay for day 1 DLC in the next game? alternate endings will come in DLC packs?

IIRC that (alternate endings) has been discussed for THIS GAME in the past in other threads, which Bioware has yet to confirm or deny.

[Exia001]

NoxJuked wrote...

****ing Tune!!

[BaronIveagh]

Evilelf007 wrote...

Umm...since day 1, the CE was advertised as having an extra squadmate and mission! From day 1!¡!

Yes, but Chris Preistly immedatly issued a statment that the information was incorrect and that it had been pulled.  (When in fact, no such thing had happned).

[fropas]

_symphony wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

_symphony wrote...

you are still avoiding the question:
Do you think that all the items you get with the CE edition, plus the DLC (that cost $10 to everyone else) is worth $20?

You know it doesn't add up, CE buyers get the DLC at no cost, while SE buyers are the ones screwed by having to pay up.

So lets be honest now, and stop this DGAF aptitude, next time even CE buyers will have to pay for day 1 DLCs.

I'm paying the equivalent of $120 for the CE, because for some reason videogames are much more expensive where I live. Do you think that is enough money to cover the costs of both extra stuff and the DLC? You do realize I'm paying twice as much as SE byers in the US?

I know that, but that's probably taxes and irrelevant to the actual cost of the product, I don't even want to know right now how much the SE will cost here, because $60 is an already pretty high bar, and my country adds %50 taxes on everything, imagine it, 120 bucks for the SE version.

I want to be pretty clear that I don't care about the DLC, and I don't think I want it. BioWare really made a stupid move storywise by resurrecting a prothean for no good reason. But this day 1 DLC really looks like a cash grab, as a consumer I think I should complain even if it doesn't concern me. If we don't raise a flag to EA/BioWare then what's next? will everyone have to pay for day 1 DLC in the next game? alternate endings will come in DLC packs? 

I neither mind that CE buyers might be getting the DLC for free while SE buyers have to pay up, I'm not such a bad person for not wanting anybody to get something I paid for free. 

Wouldn't that mean people pay 90$ bucks for SE? (50% of 60 is 30. 30+60 = 90). . .your math does not compute.

I prefer not to speculate what new DLC will or won't be cut from a game. . .if it's worth the money I'll buy it. . .if it sucks then I won't.

[nightcobra]

Daywalker315 wrote...



That's fine. You can feel that way personally. I accept that. But please don't do what dozens of other people are trying to do and say that "the DLC SHOULDN'T be included because all these other things are clearly worth $20 by themselves". I absolutely disagree with you that the rest of the items are worth $20, because to me they aren't. I accept that you think they are but I personally got the CE almost exclusively for the character DLC. The extra weapons and robo dog and hoodie and outfit pack were nice too but the physical items hold zero appeal or value to me.

You and I, nor anyone else on here, have the right to tell BioWare what they should or shouldn't put in the collector's edition version of their game. They made it and can put whatever they want into that box.

you're right they can, doesn't mean they should on the basis that a collector's edition should focus on collectibles IMO but that's beside the point.
and so they can put anything in that box, even if that something is either pre-paid DLC or free DLC which is what we're waiting for casey to confirm, besides....it's better to hear it from the horse's mouth anyway regardless if it's for the better or worse.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 24 février 2012 - 09:04 .

[darthnick427]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

 :drool:

Are those...those...COLLECTORS!? 

JAVIK FIGHTING COLLECTORS FTW!! .............wait ......if collectors are back......does that mean.....oh dear god NOOO--- ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL! SUBMIT NOW SHEPARD! THIS HURTS YOU!

[ArkkAngel007]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

Those people still were not working on the core game and thus their salaries reflect in the cost of making something. If they weren't working on this they could have been working on something else, be it DLC for post-launch or a new game entirely. Either way, their salaries are taken to account for the cost of creating whatever they do during that time and money needs to be made to recoup that cost.

Regardless of whether they are working on anything you still have to pay them.

The only real expence is in the VA , thats the only thing. And since the Prothean is part of the main game, thats kind of wrong as well.

It is not a part of the main game.  You keep saying it and ignoring the clear evidence that it is otherwise.  I can admit the flaws in my arguments, why can't you?

And yes you do have to pay them.  And where is that money coming from I wonder?  I also wonder where that money to cover all the marketing and development comes from...

[ElementL09]

Daywalker315 wrote...

ElementL09 wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

oto wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

It looks like they may be starting to wobble. Calling the DLC free content on the CE which it is by definition as bonus.It paves the way for free DLC for all.

Again you are not paying for the digital bits you are paying for the physical items that cost EA money to outsource.
You may not like it, you may not accept it. But that is what Bonus means.

Right, because Bioware didn't have to shell out money to make the digital bits. Oh wait, they did. 

Thats a one shot cost for making them. Once thats done they can copy them for free as many times as they want.

And yet you continue to avoid the actual reason why we pay, which is the actual development costs.  You are only looking at it from a manufacturing perspective.  All of the marketing, pre-development, development...that's the bulk of what we are paying for when we purchase a game. 

Believe it or not, BioWare takes a hit for every CE sold, because it costs more to produce all of those items in there then what they are selling.  They lose money doing this.

Edit: Forgot about server costs as well, now that there is multiplayer and that they use Alliance News Network.  

ahahahaha      do you even  belive what you are saying ?

Agreed. There is ZERO chance all the little physical trinkets in the CE cost anywhere close to $20 to produce. They wouldn't sell a CE for less profit than a SE. A little thing called mass manufacturing of goods. A corporation's best friend. Physical production costs: metal case might cost an extra $1-2, book maybe $2-3, patch 10 cents, lithograph 20 cents, comic book 20 cents. The rest are digital items. That's nowhere near $20.

Yeah, thats debatable.  I for one feel that the Collectors Editition contents without From Ashes, still make the Collectors Edition worth 80 bucks.

That's fine. You can feel that way personally. I accept that. But please don't do what dozens of other people are trying to do and say that "the DLC SHOULDN'T be included because all these other things are clearly worth $20 by themselves". I absolutely disagree with you that the rest of the items are worth $20, because to me they aren't. I accept that you think they are but I personally got the CE almost exclusively for the character DLC. The extra weapons and robo dog and hoodie and outfit pack were nice too but the physical items hold zero appeal or value to me.

You and I, nor anyone else on here, have the right to tell BioWare what they should or shouldn't put in the collector's edition version of their game. They made it and can put whatever they want into that box.

I am not saying that, I just support making this content available for free for everyone who purchases the game new at launch.  Your right that we don't have the right to say what can or can't be put into the Collectors Edition.   I just feel that with the artbook, the comic, the soundtrack and all the other stuff besides the From Ashes DLC is well worth the 20$ in my opinion. 

[Daywalker315]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

oto wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

It looks like they may be starting to wobble. Calling the DLC free content on the CE which it is by definition as bonus.It paves the way for free DLC for all.

Again you are not paying for the digital bits you are paying for the physical items that cost EA money to outsource.
You may not like it, you may not accept it. But that is what Bonus means.

Right, because Bioware didn't have to shell out money to make the digital bits. Oh wait, they did. 

Thats a one shot cost for making them. Once thats done they can copy them for free as many times as they want.

And yet you continue to avoid the actual reason why we pay, which is the actual development costs.  You are only looking at it from a manufacturing perspective.  All of the marketing, pre-development, development...that's the bulk of what we are paying for when we purchase a game. 

Believe it or not, BioWare takes a hit for every CE sold, because it costs more to produce all of those items in there then what they are selling.  They lose money doing this.

Edit: Forgot about server costs as well, now that there is multiplayer and that they use Alliance News Network.  

ahahahaha      do you even  belive what you are saying ?

Agreed. There is ZERO chance all the little physical trinkets in the CE cost anywhere close to $20 to produce. They wouldn't sell a CE for less profit than a SE. A little thing called mass manufacturing of goods. A corporation's best friend. Physical production costs: metal case might cost an extra $1-2, book maybe $2-3, patch 10 cents, lithograph 20 cents, comic book 20 cents. The rest are digital items. That's nowhere near $20.

Sorry to say something obvious but you are completely disregarding the markup .

Oh Bob, I saw the next reply by another guy on the next page and I just knew this one would be you. Markup? Regarding ...? Those are the absolute maximums BioWare probably paid for the production of those items. In total, most likely less than $5 for the extra physical items. The extra amount they sell these copies to retailers for over the SE will be more than $5, considering the $20 difference in retail price.

Retailers don't buy wholesale from EA for 20% of the retail price by any means. For example, if Best Buy buys their initial copies at 60% of retail (purely speculative but I'm sure it's in the neighborhood), BioWare sells SE to BB for $36 and CE for $48, which are then marked up to sell for $60 and $80, respectively. $12 difference in wholesale revenue between CE and SE = more than $5. Hence, extra profit.

Thank you for taking Business 101 with Daywalker315.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

So uh... when will this hit the Xbox Live Marketplace... again?

[ArkkAngel007]

darthnick427 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

 :drool:

Are those...those...COLLECTORS!? 

JAVIK FIGHTING COLLECTORS FTW!! .............wait ......if collectors are back......does that mean.....oh dear god NOOO--- ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL! SUBMIT NOW SHEPARD! THIS HURTS YOU!

Cheez would allow Javik to assume direct control of her Shepard;)

[_symphony]

fropas wrote...

Wouldn't that mean people pay 90$ bucks for SE? (50% of 60 is 30. 30+60 = 90). . .your math does not compute.

I prefer not to speculate what new DLC will or won't be cut from a game. . .if it's worth the money I'll buy it. . .if it sucks then I won't.

you're right, I screwed up the math.

[Evilelf007]

No, there was a leak on the character spiecies he was referring to that needed to be pulled and was. There was always a character for download with the ce...always.

[AkiKishi]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

I admit that was complete bs that I put down for the CE.  I didn't really think about that thoroughly.  But it still stands that we just aren't paying for the production of the physical items, that the bulk is elsewhere.

Lets try to break it down.

1. Team to make it - they are employees you pay them whether they are making DLC or playing Nerf in the carpark.
2. Servers - Highly unlikely they need a new server for a 600 mb download
3. VA - this I'm not sure of . I've heard rumours that Prothy is in the game in which case no cost there either.

Total cost real in terms 0 ?

I think that covers everything .

On the other hand EA has to pay for every single item like the patch,art book etc. 5 per CE ? Say $10.

Then you add in the mark up at retail.

Digital items don't look like part of the costing. Or if they are it's a small part.