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Mass Effect 3: From Ashes


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#8426
obie191970

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_symphony wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

KBomb wrote...

TheGoddess0fWar wrote...

They sure did screw up in not giving SE owners DLC for free that CE owners paid for. Man did they F*ck this one up.


 
Didn't Casey Hudson himself state the DLC comes free with the CE? You paid more for it only because of the swag?


I didn't pay more for it because of the swag.  I paid more for it because it advertised an additional character and mission.  At 41, the patch and postcard sized art book really aren't a draw for me.  And I think Casey's twitter post on that is an issue of semantics - By free he meant it was included in the $80 CE price that was as advertised.

Well, the reason of why did you paid it is kind of irrelevant, if the DLC is included free, is included free, regardless of the reasons you had.

Now  I understand why many CE buyers think Prothy was a CE exclusive, BioWare was probably vague about it, never saying that it will be included in a DLC so the only way for get it was buying the CE, and falling into their trap.

Now that the DLC is announced, CE owners doesn't even like the idea of seeing SE buyers getting Prothy for free, since they bought the CE for that reason.

This is BioWare's fault, you got tricked into buying the CE when in the long run it wasn't necessary.


Agreed.  But, thankfully I am in a position where $10 either way really doesn't mean all that much to me.  I realize others are not and understand their anger and frustration over this issue.  Marketing wise, it was smart as hell to add the Prothean as the extra character.  As a service to their core fans, they screwed up big time.

#8427
ZX12r Ninja

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KBomb wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

It was a Twitter post in response to someone else.  I refuse to take that as canon.  When I ordered the CE it was because of the extra mision and character - Whether you did or not is fine, it was the reason I did.  Free, included, part of the package price, etc., it doesn't matter.  It was part of the advertised product for the CE, it wasn't for the SE.

Michael Gamble wrote...
- The Collectors Edition has been advertised from the beginning as containing a bonus character/mission, but we were not at liberty to provide the details. The Prothean is optional content that is certainly designed to appeal to long-time fans, which is why he is part of the CE offering (the version many fans would be likely to purchase).  Mass Effect 3 is a complete – and a huge game - right out of the box.



 
You may refuse to take it as canon, but he did state the DLC came free to all who purchased the CE. Whether you purchased it for the DLC or swag is really irrelevant to the whole thing. Whether or not I purchased it for swag or DLC is irrelevant, as well. What matters is his statement. Not what we turn his statement into to match what suits our feelings, thoughts and arguments.


As for the Mike Gamble excerpt you posted. It sounds very much like he is stating the CE purchasers received the DLC free because it would appeal more to them—the long time fans. I don't see how that statement helps what you're trying to convey.


Really? There's nothing left and it boils down to symantics now?

Modifié par ZX12r Ninja, 25 février 2012 - 04:17 .


#8428
J.amber

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DJBare wrote...

J.amber wrote...

actually he's in the "core game" he's just a NPC not a squadmate or having a mission which is the DLC

That statement keeps falling on deaf ears around here(okay, blind eyes then!)


willfully blind i suppose :? or just doing it for the amusement or at least i hope they are and don't actually think the way they do lol

#8429
ArkkAngel007

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DJBare wrote...

J.amber wrote...

actually he's in the "core game" he's just a NPC not a squadmate or having a mission which is the DLC

That statement keeps falling on deaf ears around here(okay, blind eyes then!)


Wait, where was that said?

I know a lot around here were supposing that he may be, but nothing other than that.

Modifié par ArkkAngel007, 25 février 2012 - 04:20 .


#8430
Raxxman

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ArkkAngel007 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

J.amber wrote...

actually he's in the "core game" he's just a NPC not a squadmate or having a mission which is the DLC

That statement keeps falling on deaf ears around here(okay, blind eyes then!)


Wait, where was that said?


I believe it hasn't (certianly  not in a press release) and this is alluded from leaked script reports.

#8431
ZX12r Ninja

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ArkkAngel007 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

J.amber wrote...

actually he's in the "core game" he's just a NPC not a squadmate or having a mission which is the DLC

That statement keeps falling on deaf ears around here(okay, blind eyes then!)


Wait, where was that said?


I don't know why this J. AMber person is but to my knowledge nothing official has been said about that by any Bioware rep.

But it is a very real possibility and I already explained the reason behind it in my mail to TB.
http://social.biowar...705/324#9451743

Modifié par ZX12r Ninja, 25 février 2012 - 04:21 .


#8432
GuyIncognito21

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The connection between "long-term fans" and "bought the CE" is tenuous and insulting. "If you were REALLY a fan, you'd pay us extra for some little trinkets and a robot dog."

People should not have to buy a collector's edition to get a complete game. That's industry standard since forever. If you want to give out hoodies and pets and cool weapons or whatever, fine. But that should be the extent of it.

#8433
Agamo45

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So they took some content out of the game and have called it DLC, and will make us pay some extra money for it. EA just won't miss an opportunity to make an extra buck will they?

#8434
BaronIveagh

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didymos1120 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

BaronIveagh wrote...

And, please note, this IS the company that got caught trying to load review scores on Metacritic.

Woah, it was an employee who was discovered to be loading the review scores, I'll try to find the story.


Pretty sure it was just the one person too.


I'll have to dig it out, but I know I read that more then one got caught in the end. 

#8435
ArkkAngel007

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ZX12r Ninja wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

J.amber wrote...

actually he's in the "core game" he's just a NPC not a squadmate or having a mission which is the DLC

That statement keeps falling on deaf ears around here(okay, blind eyes then!)


Wait, where was that said?


I don't know why this J. AMber person is but to my knowledge nothing official has been said about that by any Bioware rep.


To my knowledge, he isn't in the main game.  It isn't indicated in the script or the files that it's so.

#8436
obie191970

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KBomb wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

It was a Twitter post in response to someone else.  I refuse to take that as canon.  When I ordered the CE it was because of the extra mision and character - Whether you did or not is fine, it was the reason I did.  Free, included, part of the package price, etc., it doesn't matter.  It was part of the advertised product for the CE, it wasn't for the SE.

Michael Gamble wrote...
- The Collectors Edition has been advertised from the beginning as containing a bonus character/mission, but we were not at liberty to provide the details. The Prothean is optional content that is certainly designed to appeal to long-time fans, which is why he is part of the CE offering (the version many fans would be likely to purchase).  Mass Effect 3 is a complete – and a huge game - right out of the box.



 
You may refuse to take it as canon, but he did state the DLC came free to all who purchased the CE. Whether you purchased it for the DLC or swag is really irrelevant to the whole thing. Whether or not I purchased it for swag or DLC is irrelevant, as well. What matters is his statement. Not what we turn his statement into to match what suits our feelings, thoughts and arguments.


As for the Mike Gamble excerpt you posted. It sounds very much like he is stating the CE purchasers received the DLC free because it would appeal more to them—the long time fans. I don't see how that statement helps what you're trying to convey.


C'mon KBomb.  We're going to charge you an extra $20 for a boy scout patch, a postcard sized art book, a robotic dog and a N7 hoodie.  But we'll give you an extra character and mission for free!!!!  Really?  It's obviously included as part of the extra $20 that CE buyers spent.  Everyone is going to assign different monetary values on those products but the fact remains that the DLC was included in that price.

Modifié par obie191970, 25 février 2012 - 04:32 .


#8437
GuyIncognito21

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Agamo45 wrote...

So they took some content out of the game and have called it DLC, and will make us pay some extra money for it. EA just won't miss an opportunity to make an extra buck will they?


Yeah, heck, at this point I'd settle for a statement from BW saying it was EA's call and not theirs.  I already know to hate EA.  

#8438
_symphony

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ArkkAngel007 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

J.amber wrote...

actually he's in the "core game" he's just a NPC not a squadmate or having a mission which is the DLC

That statement keeps falling on deaf ears around here(okay, blind eyes then!)


Wait, where was that said?

I know a lot around here were supposing that he may be, but nothing other than that.

I heard that too, but is just speculation afaik.

#8439
ZX12r Ninja

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GuyIncognito21 wrote...

The connection between "long-term fans" and "bought the CE" is tenuous and insulting. "If you were REALLY a fan, you'd pay us extra for some little trinkets and a robot dog."

People should not have to buy a collector's edition to get a complete game. That's industry standard since forever. If you want to give out hoodies and pets and cool weapons or whatever, fine. But that should be the extent of it.


Just like people should not have to buy the books or the comics to get the full mass effect experience? You definition of a "complete game" is vague at best. What is a complete game?

#8440
Mclouvins

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GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

So they took some content out of the game and have called it DLC, and will make us pay some extra money for it. EA just won't miss an opportunity to make an extra buck will they?


Yeah, heck, at this point I'd settle for a statement from BW saying it was EA's call and not theirs.  I already know to hate EA.  


Once again img.gawkerassets.com/img/17eig06xukt8apng/original.png

#8441
Bluko

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Okay I think this is going to be last post I make here on these boards simply because the snobbish attitude here some hold is nothing short of pathetic. This unfortunately does not endear to me the fact that gamers are a respectful or considerate bunch. Quite the opposite actually. I use to think this community was pretty decent most of the time, minus the occasional troublemakers. But I guess a lot of people's true colors are starting to show.


Basically what I keep seeing in this thread:
"Ha ha! You didn't get the Collector's  Edition! Too bad so sad, no Prothean Squadmate!"

*Sigh*
For starters there is/was a limited supply of the Collector's Edition. I'm quite certain that there are a number of people out there who probably wanted the CE, but couldn't get it. If I was one of these people I'd be pretty off-put by some people's comments here. It's worth keeping in mind not everyone is so rabidly obsessed that  they follow every bit of news on the game or pre-order months ahead of time. If there were plenty of copies of the Collector's Edition this might be a different story.

More important to consider is this though: Not everyone wants to spend $70-80 on a brand new game. Now yes in some cases those individuals might just be shiftless individuals who simply cannot afford it. But I'd say in a lot more instances folks simply are a little more choosy about what they spend their money on. $80 isn't what I'd call expensive, but it sure isn't exactly cheap either. I think expecting people to spend $70-80 simply so they can have all of the actual release content is a bit much.

You may beg to differ. You may think ME3 is totally worth $80, maybe even more. And hey that's swell. If you think ME3 is totally worth more then $60 that's precisely why the Collector's Edition exists. It's there for those who really like the series and want a few extra goodies to somewhat justify the price tag.  Collector's Editions however should not offer exclusive game story content. Weapons, armor, etc. that stuff is generally tolerable as being optional since that really isn't too important to the game experience. But if a squadmate is not considered part of the experience, then what is the purpose or value of their existence to begin with? I find it very troubling that any squadmate can be considered unnecessary/optional in a story driven game. 



If you ask me everyone who buys a new copy of a game should be able to have the most complete version of it. It's for this very reason why most GOTY editions include Expansions and DLC. That way even if you are buying the game long after release you'll be as up-to-date as those who have owned the game for awhile. And this is also why patches, updates, etc. are free. The fact some here are saying well at least they're offering still offering it for purchase, is perhaps the most obnoxious thing I have ever read here.

Please tell me where it was advertised or ever said that the additional squadmate was exclusive.  For all you know this squadmate could have been available to everyone anyways. (Also you were not suppose to know it was a Prothean either I might add.) Thinking Bioware would make something exclusive when it has much more selling power is simply foolish. And that probably brings up the real stinger of this issue: they know most fans would probably want a Prothean Squadmate.  The sad thing is rather then simply giving all their loyal customers access to this character, they are with-holding him. They are dangling the carrot in front of us to see how much money we will cough up. Now I will agree EA/Bioware is a business, so there is no reason why they can't do this. 

But believing this is "good business" seems very erroneous to me. While certainly a lot of people are looking forward to ME3, that doesn't mean it will eclipse sales charts There is a possibility (though highly unlikely) it could sell worse then ME2. Unfortunately rather then building support in the product to avoid this, and making Bioware look "good", they are making themselves look rather "bad". It especially seems that way after Zaeed was offered for free under basically the same circumstances. Can anyone give me a good reason why this should not also be the case with the Prothean? I mean yeah they could have charged us for Zaeed too, but they didn't and I think it worked well for them and encouraged a lot more people to buy ME2 DLC. Again why not keep up the goodwill especially taking into account some people's resentments with certain recent things?



It's one thing that Bioware/EA is doing this. While I strongly  disagree with it and personally will not buy this DLC ever whether it's a nickel or a hundred dollars, it is their own mistake to make. However the fact some of you are cheering this on or just NGAF has got to be one of the most shameful displays I have ever seen here. I guess I'm out of touch with things these days in that being an apathetic rock is what the "cool kids" do now. And no offense but I've seen plenty of people here do attitude 180s. You might want to be a tad more sensitive, since someday you could be the whiney one.

Honestly I don't think there is an easy solution to this. The way this whole thing was handled is going to anger a lot of people no matter if they leave it or change it. Frankly I would have thought EA/Bioware smarter then this knowing Day 1 DLC is not exactly popular. The thing is had the Prothean been made available to everyone from the get-go we all could have been content I think. Too late now though I guess.

I believe the usefulness of the feedback I can give here has come to an end. Seeing as pretty much all my interest has now been lost in any future Bioware titles my rantings are of even less purpose then they were to begin with. I wish everyone well and hope that my concerns have simply been misplaced and that I will be proved wrong.

Modifié par Bluko, 25 février 2012 - 04:26 .


#8442
mrbauxjangles

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Still bull**** bioware

#8443
KBomb

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ZX12r Ninja wrote...

As an excerpt:

You asked: Did they include it in CE for free while SE has to pay.
I said: No, don't be silly why do you assume this?
You said: The cynic in me sais so.
I said: If you're a cynic then why do you think they're padding CE while screwing SE?

If you're asking whether CE gets it for free (absolutely free, no calculation, no bookkeeping, no meetings, just make it and slap it on free) and whether SE has to pay for it then you are essentialy making a divide between CE and SE.


 

You asked: Did they include it in CE for free while SE has to pay.



Wrong. Someone posted this:


TheGoddess0fWar wrote...

They sure did screw up in not giving SE owners DLC for free that CE owners paid for. Man did they F*ck this one up.




To which I said, “Didn't Casey Hudson make the statement that the DLC version comes free with the CE?” I never once said “Did they include it in CE for free while SE has to pay?” You're just making up things. Please refer to my actual statements and not what you want to believe I am saying.


You assumed the question was silly and by the things you're making up, I suppose I can understand why.


I said: No, don't be silly why do you assume this?
You said: The cynic in me sais so.



Again, wrong. I did not say the cynic in me made me believe that CE got the DLC free while SE had to pay. I said the cynic in me causes me not to believe everything a company has to say. My statement was geared toward the posters who were building their arguments –no matter what they were-- on statements Bioware and Casey Hudson had said. It was a general statement that you once again twisted into something I never said.




I said: If you're a cynic then why do you think they're padding CE while screwing SE?



I have never said that. I also never said they “padded” the CE. I am quite happy with the CE. I also never said in any of my statements that I believed Bioware was screwing anyone. Why do you feel the need to make up things and build strawman arguments?

Modifié par KBomb, 25 février 2012 - 04:40 .


#8444
Stealth3

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Mclouvins wrote...

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

So they took some content out of the game and have called it DLC, and will make us pay some extra money for it. EA just won't miss an opportunity to make an extra buck will they?


Yeah, heck, at this point I'd settle for a statement from BW saying it was EA's call and not theirs.  I already know to hate EA.  


Once again img.gawkerassets.com/img/17eig06xukt8apng/original.png


Created by EA's marketing team.  Doesn't mean ****.  Yeah, life's a **** you know....but screwing somebody over is never justified.  And you expect us to just take it? 

#8445
lastpawn

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I think this is a simple issue, and one that doesn't need morality drawn into it.

Either you're OK with the model where you pay for first day DLC, or you're not. If you're not, you can elect to show that by either not buying the game or waiting till it's in the discount isle. It's your money, and we get the type of behavior from companies that we accept.

Personally, I'll wait for the reviews. If the reviews aren't favorable, no big deal. If they are, I'll wait for a discounted package. It's not an issue of money. I'm not a millionaire but $80 is no big deal--I just don't like being nickel and dimed to death.

#8446
ZX12r Ninja

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Stealth3 wrote...

Mclouvins wrote...

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

So they took some content out of the game and have called it DLC, and will make us pay some extra money for it. EA just won't miss an opportunity to make an extra buck will they?


Yeah, heck, at this point I'd settle for a statement from BW saying it was EA's call and not theirs.  I already know to hate EA.  


Once again img.gawkerassets.com/img/17eig06xukt8apng/original.png


Created by EA's marketing team.  Doesn't mean ****.  Yeah, life's a **** you know....but screwing somebody over is never justified.  And you expect us to just take it? 


Yeah but it still explains their point of view and make a damn good case of it too. Opposed to your swearing, name calling and generally agressive tone hoping to achieve "something".

#8447
BaronIveagh

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J.amber wrote...

actually he's in the "core game" he's just a NPC not a squadmate or having a mission which is the DLC


Shepard, the checkpoint is under fire. 

#8448
mrbauxjangles

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My problem is that there is DLC day one. DLC a month after the game is out go for it charge all you want and put out as much as you want

#8449
ArkkAngel007

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GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

So they took some content out of the game and have called it DLC, and will make us pay some extra money for it. EA just won't miss an opportunity to make an extra buck will they?


Yeah, heck, at this point I'd settle for a statement from BW saying it was EA's call and not theirs.  I already know to hate EA.  


We all know the reason we are being charged this much, if at all, is because of EA.  Heck, we were at least given a free DLC under Microsoft, who are pretty anti-free DLC on Xbox Live.

The content wasn't cut from the main game.  When is that fact going to actually set in?

#8450
fides5566

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BaronIveagh wrote...

For real hilarity: it's 'on disc' DLC, and was removed pretty late in development, as the audio tracks for the Prothean were included in the Demo.


Give me the evidence please, not just a link to someone post that it was included in the demo.
But how to get that audio tracks and where is that file in the demo.