13369 réponses à ce sujet

[GuyIncognito21]

WeWant wrote...

If I pay $60 for a game, I expect it to have the entire gaming experience that has been developped by the team so far. It's common sense.

Not only is it common sense, but it's industry standard since forever.

[Monochrome Wench]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Monochrome Wench wrote...

Nope, some people would have issues if the DLC was a major reason they are purchasing the CE and it was decided to give the DLC to everyone for free.

Considering the fact that people who ordered the CE just for the DLC would have two weeks to cancel their CE orders and order the SE instead, I don't think that's much of an argument.

They'd be getting $20 (or 20 pounds) back and getting all the content they wanted in the first place.

Making an assumption that people even can cancel the preorders or wont lose a deposit on it if required by the store.

[_symphony]

jpzgoku wrote...

_symphony wrote...
Frankly, I don't believe the DLC is cut content from the main game.

How, Why? Anyway it was planned and is availiable before launch. 

The game has to be finished quite some time before launch, I can imagine the people not involved in the last stage of development (that's usually bug fixing) working in a DLC. Just because is released the same day doesn't mean they were developed at the same time or in the same process.

[nitefyre410]

sean1804 wrote...

just a quick question if the "From Ashes" DLC was made free would everyone be happy?

No... not going to solve anything...

See the problem Bioware has   goes like this...  

they decided to make him a Collectors Edition Exclusive DLC  charater.(For A Collector Edition Exclusive character is nonsense in my opinon  thats moot at this point.  

So now  the Collector Editions sell out and people are not like well WTF  or Well they will include him  like Zeead they did in the past why just flip the script now..

And then they the Xbox Live leak came and  it got worst...  

See Bioware problem is that have to 2 things... made a section of  feel like they have been alienated and  ripoffed because there is squatemate that is availabe to them  the  for what ever reason they could not get their hands one. Secondly with the poor wording and  not very transparent handling of this  they gave the impression that  this was intended from the start.  When CE was announce  Chris P. hand to disavow that prothean existed .  

So now they have painted themselves into a corner... they can;t just give him away for Free because no the  CE people are going to pissed off but they are going to have to charge for SE  people 10 bucks extra so the CE people don;t get pissed off  anyway and feel they were ripped off.

Moral of the story... they should have left him in stasis during Pre-production when the script was being written and that exclusive DLC characters might not be a great idea in the future.

[GuyIncognito21]

CommanderCoffee wrote...

Okay, I get it. You're not a real person. You take jokes as reality, therefore we must breathe Carbon Dioxide, Up must be Down, and the Sun is a black hole. FTGE

It doesn't help your argument to respond to everything with insults and vitriol.

Good comedy almost always has truth underneath it.  Sure, there are "man getting kicked in groin" jokes that don't serve any real purpose, but if you think there's never a point under it all, I feel sorry for how much you miss out on.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

It's the last game of the trilogy, with fans spanning two games and their DLCs.... it's obvious that Bioware and EA are cashing out with this (but also trying to keep the CE's price and content looking like a good deal).

[Kevin Lozandier]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

sean1804 wrote...

just a quick question if the "From Ashes" DLC was made free would everyone be happy?

Of course.  I think that's the entire issue.  People should not have to pay for this kind of core content that is ready to go when the game launches.

It would also be acceptable if this content wasn't about the protheans, and was about some random human or turian or something instead.

It would also be acceptable if the content didn't exist at all (taking people at their word that it's not all that important to the main thrust of the game).

There are/were any number of ways for Bioware/EA to handle this in a way that was acceptable to most everyone.  

No. That is an opinion that is flawed if gaming development is truly fully understood to you.

As I asked you a while ago with no reply: Collector Edition of Comics have extra panels. Collector Edition of Movies have uncut material. Why can't Collector Edition of Games not have additional content to play with?  

[jpzgoku]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

sean1804 wrote...

just a quick question if the "From Ashes" DLC was made free would everyone be happy?

Of course.  I think that's the entire issue.  People should not have to pay for this kind of core content that is ready to go when the game launches.

It would also be acceptable if this content wasn't about the protheans, and was about some random human or turian or something instead.

It would also be acceptable if the content didn't exist at all (taking people at their word that it's not all that important to the main thrust of the game).

There are/were any number of ways for Bioware/EA to handle this in a way that was acceptable to most everyone.  

Disagree about the middle statement. They are still cutting content to be sold at a premium, when the content was planned and is available at launch. 

[ArkkAngel007]

jpzgoku wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

TheGoddess0fWar wrote...

jpzgoku wrote...

TheGoddess0fWar wrote...

It's to bad you all are complaining at the last second. If only you had protested months ago. Damn. That would of saved us 340 pages of nothing but circle-jerking. In the words of Admiral Hackett "You're preaching to the choir."

I think most of us that are upset didn't ever think to preorder the game, so we didn't know about this until news broke out on gaming websites.

People have had plenty of time to get their priorties straight.

Some people don't preorder.  Some like to wait for the general reception of the game (who can blame them after games like DAII and Too Human?) before they spend $60+ on a game.  

It also wasn't advertised as a Prothean.  Briefly it was leaked a long while back, but not everyone spends every waking hour online for news on a game they may or may not want to purchase.  While he isn't important in the game, the general consensus is that he is very important to the fans, and Casey stated that would be the case, hence why they chose to use him as DLC instead of leaving him in concept graveyard.  

Now that people know who he is now in that DLC, they want him like any other fan would.  But now we're being asked to shell out an extra $10 on the same day many were planning on buying a $60 game.  People didn't buy the CE in the first place because quite a few can't really afford it (some are probably making a questionable choice financially in getting the SE alone), but now something they want and are used to being free is suddenly an additional $10 that they really don't have lying around to waste on DLC.  

The fact that we only just received an official announcement this late, after CEs were bought up and so close to release, doesn't help the latter reasoning at all.

That's the issue on that side of the fence, and it isn't something to scoff at.  People want to enjoy the game, but feel as if they are getting slighted with what is a questionable practice.

Good points

Thank you.  I know I'm in the middle and a bit more objective on the situation, and know a bit more background on what happened, which has caused quite a few head-butts from both sides.  But I am understanding and very aware of why those who oppose it do so, and I share most of them.  

All I try to do is make sure the correct information is out there so that people's arguments are sound and actually have weight to them.  It's like when I earlier mispoke about the cost of the items in the CE.  My other points were valid, as was my overall argument, but that one or two sentences that were incorrect made my post nothing but a target that was focused solely on the mistake, and not what my actual post was about.

Point being, while hard to believe, I'm not going at yours and other's posts because I can.  I'm doing so for the sake of your, and the communities, argument against this practice.

[GuyIncognito21]

Monochrome Wench wrote...

Making an assumption that people even can cancel the preorders or wont lose a deposit on it if required by the store.

Well I've never heard of that kind of arrangement for preordering games, not in the U.S. anyway.

If that's the case, then yeah they should be angry.  Bioware made a big mistake here, there's no getting around it.  Somebody is going to be made no matter how they try and appease people.

Maybe they could offer this DLC for free and give CE-purchasers free codes for some future DLC?

[Renegade133]

WeWant wrote...

RDSFirebane wrote...

jpzgoku wrote...

What priorities? To check up on a game months ahead of time that I was no way interesed enough in to preorder? I don't understand.

I don't understand if you didn't care enough to pre order and get it when it came out your were going to to what? wait for it to drop in price or buy it used? well I'm sorry but if you plan on buying it used then you really cant complain about paying 10 bucks for the Prothy DLC as BioWare sees no money from the used sale thats been an issue for sometime now.. so they catch it ya on the DLC.

You are not making sense. 
People (me included) don't preorder the CE for any game because we just want the gaming experience, not all the consmumerism around it involving pretty costumes and useless stuff. 
If I pay $60 for a game, I expect it to have the entire gaming experience that has been developped by the team so far. It's common sense.

i think you need to learn your terms a bit better Consumerism is the act of buying anything

[KBomb]

sean1804 wrote...

just a quick question if the "From Ashes" DLC was made free would everyone be happy?

 
Not sure if it would make me happy because I wouldn't say I am unhappy. I would say I am more disappointed.




I won't be boycotting this game or the DLC. Though this situation may prejudice any future purchases. I have never said Bioware were liars, or any other derogatory judgments. I do feel, however, that it was handled badly. Marketing on a whole has been handled badly, imho. If Casey Hudson said the DLC came free with purchase of the CE, then I do believe From Ashes should have come standard with every new SE purchase.


I can't really comment on their truthfulness regarding when the DLC was released or whether or not it was cut from the game. I wasn't privy to any of that inside information and anything I could or would say about it would be purely speculation on my part. I will say that it left a bad taste in my mouth. It just didn't feel right to me—not as a fan of Bioware—but as a consumer. As consumers, we have to step away from feelings and loyalties and see companies for what they are. They are not our friends, they are not out partners. They are a commercial entity and no matter how much I adore them or their games, as a consumer I have the right to voice displeasure and censure wherever I deem appropriate.


That view doesn't mean that Bioware doesn't value us. It doesn't mean they see us as an infinite wallet. It just means that commerce will come first, no matter what. At the end of the day, that is what all companies value. That being said, a person's word should still mean something. Bioware has a track record of denying things instead of using the tried and true “No comment”. When the truth does come out it makes them seem untruthful and deceitful. Consumers and fans alike don't forget those things and it does taint believability when anything else comes in to question.

[TheGoddess0fWar]

It's the last game in Shepard's Trilogy. Not one F*ck is givin about dishing out $80 to this wonderful series. Not one. Frankly, I wish I had gotten the ME2 CE as well! Damn it.

[RDSFirebane]

WeWant wrote...

I know, that's why I said "content that has been developped so far."  There is no clear definition of when a game is complete or not. I'f you are a developer and you care about perfectioning your game, what should matter to you is putting as much content as possible in order to enhance it, instead of just filling some DLC quota prerequisited by EA.

Can you link the quota statement or some kind of proof that there is one? Can you prove that the DLC was 100% finished before the game went into certification?

[CommanderCoffee]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

CommanderCoffee wrote...

Okay, I get it. You're not a real person. You take jokes as reality, therefore we must breathe Carbon Dioxide, Up must be Down, and the Sun is a black hole. FTGE

It doesn't help your argument to respond to everything with insults and vitriol.

Good comedy almost always has truth underneath it.  Sure, there are "man getting kicked in groin" jokes that don't serve any real purpose, but if you think there's never a point under it all, I feel sorry for how much you miss out on.

You refuse to listen to reason. When people present counterevidence, you manipulate it to use it against them. You got really damn close earlier to advocating piracy. Yet I'm the bad one here. Makes real good sense.

That's good comedy because it's mocking people like you who keep demanding a piece of optional nonessential DLC for free, which is an insult to people like me who have the CE and are guaranteed it as part of the package!

[GuyIncognito21]

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

No. That is an opinion that is flawed if gaming development is truly fully understood to you.

Simply ranting that everyone who disagrees with you doesn't understand is not helpful.  Not only is it not helpful, it doesn't get me any closer to understanding.

As I asked you a while ago with no reply: Collector Edition of Comics have extra panels. Collector Edition of Movies have uncut material. Why can't Collector Edition of Games not have additional content to play with?  

Well I can't speak about comics, but movies are not much of an analogue here.  When you're talking about Director's cuts of movies, you're talking about material the director wanted in the movie in the first place that the studio cut out.

Kingdom of Heaven was a great (or horrible, depending on your outlook) example of this.  Ridley Scott's vision of the movie was three hours long and fantastic.  The studio's vision was two hours long and incoherent.

We don't really have that dynamic going on here.  And even if we did, they don't stick two versions of the movie in the theater and ask more money for the one with the full content in it.

Plus, and this is the key point, we aren't talking about ADDITIONAL content.  We're talking about core content that should by all rights be in the game to begin with.

[_symphony]

nitefyre410 wrote...
they decided to make him a Collectors Edition Exclusive DLC  charater.(For A Collector Edition Exclusive character is nonsense in my opinon  thats moot at this point.  

They never say is was an exclusive, but they surely made it vague enough so everyone thinking that's exclusive would jump and buy the CE without an afterthought.

[Kevin Lozandier]

jpzgoku wrote...

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

sean1804 wrote...

just a quick question if the "From Ashes" DLC was made free would everyone be happy?

Of course.  I think that's the entire issue.  People should not have to pay for this kind of core content that is ready to go when the game launches.

It would also be acceptable if this content wasn't about the protheans, and was about some random human or turian or something instead.

It would also be acceptable if the content didn't exist at all (taking people at their word that it's not all that important to the main thrust of the game).

There are/were any number of ways for Bioware/EA to handle this in a way that was acceptable to most everyone.  

Disagree about the middle statement. They are still cutting content to be sold at a premium, when the content was planned and is available at launch. 

No, no, and no. There is some content that during the certification phase, during many parts after the main game that can certainly be made and directly bought by consumers via DLC. 

Second is assuming that all game developers have the same process as far as the stage of cutting and adding content. Some Game Developers and companies flat out create every level, guns, bosses, and THEN make up the story (I'm talking about top selling games of this decade I can't name because of confidentiality reasons). 

[GuyIncognito21]

CommanderCoffee wrote...
You refuse to listen to reason. When people present counterevidence, you manipulate it to use it against them. You got really damn close earlier to advocating piracy. Yet I'm the bad one here. Makes real good sense.

Piracy should in my opinion be viewed as a necessary evil, and one that has the potential to keep game companies honest.  That's not advocacy, that's acknowledgment.

And I didn't call you "bad" or anything of the sort.  I'm simply saying that you seem to have completely missed the point of that video.  Just because he's playing a character does not mean the words coming out of that character's mouth are not his real opinion, anymore than the words coming out of the 8 year olds on South Park contain kernels of Trey Parker and Matt Stone's real opinions.

That's good comedy because it's mocking people like you who keep demanding a piece of optional nonessential DLC for free, which is an insult to people like me who have the CE and are guaranteed it as part of the package!

Yeah, I think you really missed the point of that video if that's what you got out of it.

[nitefyre410]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

*snip*

Thank you.  I know I'm in the middle and a bit more objective on the situation, and know a bit more background on what happened, which has caused quite a few head-butts from both sides.  But I am understanding and very aware of why those who oppose it do so, and I share most of them.  

All I try to do is make sure the correct information is out there so that people's arguments are sound and actually have weight to them.  It's like when I earlier mispoke about the cost of the items in the CE.  My other points were valid, as was my overall argument, but that one or two sentences that were incorrect made my post nothing but a target that was focused solely on the mistake, and not what my actual post was about.

Point being, while hard to believe, I'm not going at yours and other's posts because I can.  I'm doing so for the sake of your, and the communities, argument against this practice.

 

You sir  are scholar and Gentlemen ...  seriously you have been one the polite  poster in this thread.

I personally feel its  a bad pratice what they are doing...  not stupid  - no its actually pretty damn, smart and cunning... I dare say that I admire them for it.   So I just won't buy new games with the  Bioware  logo on them..

I'm not going to go to as far as  saying that this could Happen with Battlefeild because something like that  would upset the balance in a Competitive Multiplayer game and that is what Battlefield is  sold for... Crappy Mutliplayer and they are not moving  copys of  that game. 

For a game like  Mass Effect though... brillant... just brillance I will admire  with out handing money over from my wallet.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 25 février 2012 - 06:13 .

[RDSFirebane]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Plus, and this is the key point, we aren't talking about ADDITIONAL content.  We're talking about core content that should by all rights be in the game to begin with.

Not to jump between you two. But ^ why? It's always been about Shep. Stopping the Reapers with the Pro. just being the race that gave him the chance to do it they have always played a back seat role in the story as Shep. was doing everything the fact one is alive and breathing isnt really changeing much other then the fact he might be able to clear some stuff up. you act like he has a hidden god mode on him or something.

[Kevin Lozandier]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Kevin Lozandier wrote...

No. That is an opinion that is flawed if gaming development is truly fully understood to you.

Simply ranting that everyone who disagrees with you doesn't understand is not helpful.  Not only is it not helpful, it doesn't get me any closer to understanding.

As I asked you a while ago with no reply: Collector Edition of Comics have extra panels. Collector Edition of Movies have uncut material. Why can't Collector Edition of Games not have additional content to play with?  

Well I can't speak about comics, but movies are not much of an analogue here.  When you're talking about Director's cuts of movies, you're talking about material the director wanted in the movie in the first place that the studio cut out.

Kingdom of Heaven was a great (or horrible, depending on your outlook) example of this.  Ridley Scott's vision of the movie was three hours long and fantastic.  The studio's vision was two hours long and incoherent.

We don't really have that dynamic going on here.  And even if we did, they don't stick two versions of the movie in the theater and ask more money for the one with the full content in it.

Plus, and this is the key point, we aren't talking about ADDITIONAL content.  We're talking about core content that should by all rights be in the game to begin with.

Again, your use of core material is very subjective and naive. Something I also addressed that you didn't reply to earlier in this thread (your 'Madden' Analogy:

Full experience? Again how do you know, you haven't played the game. The Madden example is a rather poor example from someone I actually respect as far as your ability to articulate your argument.

We know 100% that there are 32 teams in the NFL. If they take out one team in the game that's 100 certain is core, it would be a rip-off, like having to pay to play with the Super Bowl Champs of that season.

If they forced you to buy a team that is not part of the core experience and is an extra, like an All-Dream team or All-Speed them, that's entirely different and is the case here.

If an all-madden team of the greatest players of all time (considered by fans and players) were part of the CE, it would not be wrong I believe. Needless to say, such players have unique high value to some fans (majority) and legacy influences the NFL still today.

Therefore, I'm afraid that your latest argument about this is poor here.

[End Old Post]

It is not unlike the Prothean DLC that is being added here for the CE edition. It's not too far different than allowing Shepards to wear Collector armor last game as year; Aren't Collector's and their technology not a big deal as well? 

Modifié par Kevin Lozandier, 25 février 2012 - 06:15 .

[BaronIveagh]

"'What do you propose?'
'We, uh, kill Commander Sheppard."

[CommanderCoffee]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

CommanderCoffee wrote...
You refuse to listen to reason. When people present counterevidence, you manipulate it to use it against them. You got really damn close earlier to advocating piracy. Yet I'm the bad one here. Makes real good sense.

Piracy should in my opinion be viewed as a necessary evil, and one that has the potential to keep game companies honest.  That's not advocacy, that's acknowledgment.

And I didn't call you "bad" or anything of the sort.  I'm simply saying that you seem to have completely missed the point of that video.  Just because he's playing a character does not mean the words coming out of that character's mouth are not his real opinion, anymore than the words coming out of the 8 year olds on South Park contain kernels of Trey Parker and Matt Stone's real opinions.

That's good comedy because it's mocking people like you who keep demanding a piece of optional nonessential DLC for free, which is an insult to people like me who have the CE and are guaranteed it as part of the package!

Yeah, I think you really missed the point of that video if that's what you got out of it.

Is it possible for a video to create opinions? Yes. You're saying I missed the point of the video, that it's "SUPR SRS". I'm saying that the guy's using his mock voice, therefore he's mocking you. You're functionally calling me stupid for that. I don't appreciate it. 

So, I think my thickheaded analogy still stands. You can't see any viewpoint but your own, and it's pissing a lot of people off. Either at least acknowledge that there's such a thing as an opposing opinion, or bow out now and go find a circlejerk where you can rage about how life is unfair because you can't get a damn DLC for free. I believe some youtube video, made by a guy named, oh, Partial Muffin or something has exactly that for you.

[GuyIncognito21]

RDSFirebane wrote...

Not to jump between you two. But ^ why? It's always been about Shep. Stopping the Reapers with the Pro. just being the race that gave him the chance to do it they have always played a back seat role in the story as Shep. was doing everything the fact one is alive and breathing isnt really changeing much other then the fact he might be able to clear some stuff up. you act like he has a hidden god mode on him or something.

I readily acknowledge that some people don't give a crap about the protheans and could not care any less if about this content.  That's well and good.

But the answer to "why" I think the protheans are core content is because from my experiences with the game, they're a very important part of this narrative.  Shepard is who he is because of the protheans.  The only reason the galaxy has a chance to fend off the reapers is because of the protheans.

Maybe that doesn't matter to you at all, but I don't see it that way.